Albino Lesser!

I may have gotten you to read this under false pretenses, making you think I had a picture of one. I was curious though if anyone had produced one yet. If so, links?

No. To date, no one has produced an albino lesser ... at least no one that is willing to publically talk about it. Since in the end, the animal will look just like an albino, most of the breeders that I speak with are focusing their lesser combo breedings in directions that will produce more visually striking animals.

Hope this helps.

-adam

hey, adam's back!

well im hoping as in my other thred about the mojo albino that some one does just to at least know what its like...you never know what weird things can happen when 2 genes are mixed

My guess is it will look similar to the cinnie albino...IMO.

Would an Albino Leucistic have red eyes? I can't remember the theory of layers, lol.

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

Would an Albino Leucistic have red eyes? I can't remember the theory of layers, lol.

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Kinda curious on this myself...wouldnt an all white snake albinoed still be an all white snake?

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

Would an Albino Leucistic have red eyes? I can't remember the theory of layers, lol.

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Theoretically, it should be a red-eyed leucistic. Similar to the albino leucy Tx rat.

the red eyes are called snows...




vaughn

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

Would an Albino Leucistic have red eyes? I can't remember the theory of layers, lol.

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Yes an Albino Leucistic would have red eyes. This does take into assumption that a Leucistic ball python is actually leucistic, meaning that the snake does produce pigment, but lacks chromataphores. Chromataphores are the cells in the skin that hold pigment. Therefore, the eyes still retain the pigment, and thus have color. If you remove the melanin from the leucistic, theoretically you would get red eyes. I hope that wasn't too confusing.

So we can make a black eyed, blue eyed, and red eyed leucistic ball python... I have work to do, LOL

This sounds like a long process...you would have to breed a leucistic with an albino and then breed one of the babies back to the parents correct?

Please name and post a link of all double recessive morphs.

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Originally Posted by kavmon

the red eyes are called snows...
vaughn

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WRONG!!

Snows are albino axanthics. Yes, they have red eyes but would not be the only morphs to have red eyes.

i know exactly what snows are, i was just saying that the whites snakes with the red eyes are called snows, that's all.

never did i state that they were the only morphs with red eyes.

OK?



vaughn

The snows are not really white snakes.

The red eyes are a characteristic of snows but just because a snake has red eyes does not make it a snow.

since you seem to want to waste some brain power, let's see what most of the population thinks...


does this snake look white, yes or no?:confused:

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...s/vpi_snow.asp


this is an vpi snow, imo it is a white snake. it is also the opinion of my 5 yr old to be white also.:D

what does everyone else think?:rolleyes:


vaughn:confuzd:

Fine. Whatever.

I don't feel like wasting my time with this anymore.
I answered a simple question about there being the possibility of a red-eyed leucy, and you come back with some vague remark about them being snows.

To each his own.

Lol. I am going to agree with Vaughn on this one. :D

Looks white to me, Vaughn!

Snows are not what I would consider a white snake. They are mainly white but do have a faint yellow pattern. The VPI line has the least amount of pattern but it is not a "pure white" snake. The Jollif snow has even more of a pattern and yellow hue to it.

Here are some larger photo's of some VPI line snows in which you can see the pattern (click bottom images to make them larger). http://www.ballpython.com/morph.php?morph=snow

Does it have "white" coloration? Yes, but not like the blue eye lucy's or black eye lucy's... :2cent:

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Originally Posted by panthercz

Snows are not what I would consider a white snake. They are mainly white but do have a faint yellow pattern. The VPI line has the least amount of pattern but it is not a "pure white" snake. The Jollif snow has even more of a pattern and yellow hue to it.

Here are some larger photo's of some VPI line snows in which you can see the pattern (click bottom images to make them larger). http://www.ballpython.com/morph.php?morph=snow

Does it have "white" coloration? Yes, but not like the blue eye lucy's or black eye lucy's... :2cent:

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I have seen plenty of "lucys" with more pattern and color on them than some snows ... both as hatchlings and adults.

-adam

Well I know how to settle this. You all just send me a nice snow and a nice leucy and I'll ummm...compare and constrast them! Aren't I ever so helpful! :D

as if I am not already confused about genetics and now you want us to know our colors too???

geesh...

:confuzd:

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

as if I am not already confused about genetics and now you want us to know our colors too???

geesh...

:confuzd:

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White is the new black. White is in the eye of the beholder. Geesh keep up girlie! *hands out the Cliff notes on white* :P

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

White is the new black. White is in the eye of the beholder. Geesh keep up girlie! *hands out the Cliff notes on white* :P

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ok. I think I got it!

white = black.

but does black = white???

o gosh my head hurts now!

:oops:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by panthercz

Snows are not what I would consider a white snake. They are mainly white but do have a faint yellow pattern. The VPI line has the least amount of pattern but it is not a "pure white" snake. The Jollif snow has even more of a pattern and yellow hue to it.

Here are some larger photo's of some VPI line snows in which you can see the pattern (click bottom images to make them larger). http://www.ballpython.com/morph.php?morph=snow

Does it have "white" coloration? Yes, but not like the blue eye lucy's or black eye lucy's... :2cent:

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I've actually seen one of NERD's Ivories in person and the main thing I noticed was a fairly pronounced yellow dorsal stripe. If I'm not remembering incorrectly, Kara said that when they're young, it's not as noticeable, and they develop the stripe with age. It was then that I decided Luceys were WAY nicer-looking snakes (in my opinion, of course)--because they actually stay white as they age. At least as far as I know--I haven't seen too many of either in person!

And in the photos panthercz posted, you -can- actually see a faint pattern, though I don't see a yellow dorsal stripe. The one in the above photos looks like a VERY faded albino. Not a true white snake--but a kinda "dirty" white snake ;)

EDIT: I think I may have got it backward--that the Ivories have a really pronounced yellowy dorsal stripe when they're young and then it fades to something more smudgy as an adult? Either way--there was a dorsal stripe on the one I saw ;)

we're getting ready to take the kids fishing, going for some croaker and crabs.



ps, my 5 yr old says the snake is still white!:D




vaughn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kavmon

since you seem to want to waste some brain power, let's see what most of the population thinks...


does this snake look white, yes or no?:confused:

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...s/vpi_snow.asp


this is an vpi snow, imo it is a white snake. it is also the opinion of my 5 yr old to be white also.:D

what does everyone else think?:rolleyes:


vaughn:confuzd:

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Ok. I clicked the link, then clicked the link on the link for more pictures :cool:

and....


looks kinda like a white snake with a little bit of yellowish tint to me.

Hmm...maybe we should all agree that perhaps there are no "true" white snakes? :D

I think the point Mike was trying to make was that if someone does breed an albino leucistic combo and it bears red eyes, it does not have to be called a snow... and I'm with him on that. I also don't think he was trying to start anything with anyone by making this statement. Apparently the capslock usage in the word "wrong" struck a fire. That's all I see here...

Anyway, I have never seen a snow ball in person before, only an adult snow BCI, and it had a visible pattern, and had a lot of pale yellows on it.

Right now I believe the closest we have gotten to a pure white ball is the super fire. I also think that an albino x super cinnamon cross would be promising, hopefully yeilding similar results as the albino super motley BCI's.

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Originally Posted by Rapture

Right now I believe the closest we have gotten to a pure white ball is the super fire. I also think that an albino x super cinnamon cross would be promising, hopefully yeilding similar results as the albino super motley BCI's.

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What is not white on the Lesser x Lesser lucy? I have seen a pretty good number of them and they all seemed pure white to me. Check out clutch #92. I don't know how you can get much whiter than that.
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi...hons_10_05.asp

Ok, what will sell is how white they'll stay once they're adults. Can anyone find a few pictures of Lesser Lucies and Fireball Lucies that are +1000gms? And no staged photos w/ black or white backgrounds... I want a natural picture, like of someone holding it or taken in a cage, lol.

Cuz seriously, I really want to know which is whitest of the white. I've always heard Lessers are, and now I'm hearing Fireballs...

There are probably very few people in this world privileged enough to have the experience of looking at live, adult lucys side by side....lesser x lesser, lesser x mojave, ivory, super fire, etc etc....I've spoken to one of those people at length about it, and survey says so far that the lesser x lesser is the whitest snake into adulthood.

I'll see for myself at Daytona this year, hopefully.

God I hope NERD brings Vivid...if thats the only thing I see there, I'll be satisfied.

i have seen both the black and the blue eyed lucies in person. both snakes were over 600 grams. the lesser x lesser was brighter, more white. the black eyed lucy had small amounts of "color" on it, like yellow/tanish type.


from what i've seen and been told by others, the lesser x lesser and the platty lucies are the brightest with the most white.


the mojo lucies have a little color also, highly variable some have more color than others.


vaughn

Years ago when I decided to invest in a white snake project it meant spending more money than most people spend on cars ... so I took the time to perform my due diligence in person and see every single white snake that I could. After carefully reviewing all of the options I invested a lot of money into a lesser project. ALL of the white snakes are amazing, but the minute I saw my first super lesser I knew that it was the project for me.

Super fires are hot, but since the orange blotches and black dots seem to be totally unpredictable I had serious concerns about spending that kind of money and not knowing if I would actually produce a pure white snake.

Hope this helps.

-adam

Has anyone made an Albino Lesser yet?

There seems to be a debate going on about pure white snakes or at least thats what this thread turned into. IMO I think the purest white w/o pattern blending through would be piebald. I know piebald has pattern but what if the pattern was covered by leucistic. Ralph Davis has a Piebald Lesser Platy that seems to be as white and patternless as you can get so far. So what about a super lesser pied? Low white pied + super lesser = no pattern showing through? Not sure what the pied white would look like with super lesser thrown in but I think It would be nice for a patternless "white" snake. I would also like to see what an albino super cinny would look like. Just my thoughts on the subject.

Check out the albino Russo line lucy...way cooler looking than what I would have expected an albino lucy to look like! http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/nss-f...olarBallsm.jpg

Has anyone taken it a step back though and done just an albino lesser/russo/mojave/butter?

the albino lucy in my understanding was a mistake,when he imported the first lucy,it was bred to a het albino,and the gene jusy now popped up and smiled,have you done a google search or anything?

Jsh,the super cinny,looks liek a white snake with red eyes:)

so i guess no one knows of a lesser albino huh!!!!!
i think the bel is the whitest though, or a piedbal high whit x lesser

See I don't think an Albino Lesser would be all white... It would be like an albino with faded sides and very distinc colors.

i am thinking it would look a lot like the albino mojave,could be wrong though

Do you have pictures of that?

Did a search for 'albino lesser' and this thread popped up. No albino lessers then, huh?

Well I see albino butters in my future.....:P

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o237/garweft/179.jpg