Solomon Island Tree Boa

First of all let me start by saying Regal Reptiles SUCKS. I went to a show in White Plains NY looking for a solomon island GROUND boa... which they sold me my snake as... as you can see, she's definitely a tree boa. Small and skinny and loves to wrap around things and be up high. She's cool and all, but not what I was looking for at all :mad:

She will ONLY eat treefrogs. Heck, they told me she was eating pinkies, I tried eeeeverything for 8 months, including lizards... thought she was just going to starve herself to death till I threw in a spring peeper.

Anywho. Here are some pictures. Anyone else have this species? Anyone have any luck getting theirs onto pinkies?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ancages014.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../outside12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../outside16.jpg

I own quite a few candoia. Regal doesn't really know the difference between the subspecies, and they'll absolutely admit that, next time you go for an uncommon species make sure you know what you're looking for. Not trying to reprimand or be on their side, but Candoia are quite difficult to distinguish especially when young. That said, I had a ground that looked quite like an australis for quite some time, when they're young they're all very similar. Your's seems big, so I'm guessing it really is a paulsoni, just young and not in the best shape. Once it's eating on a normal schedule and plumps up to normal size you'll be able to tell more. All Candoia except aspera are rather arboreal and can be found in low levels of bushes, so I wouldn't make that the deciding factor. But despite the skinniness and fact that I can't quite tell from the pics, the tree boas usually have thinner necks... but then again they're all so closely related... but for now I'm gonna say it's still possible you just have a very ragged, skinny paulsoni, but don't quote me on that.
Anyway, how long? and yeah i've got mine on pinkies, except my male australis is on a hunger strike at the moment because he thinks he should be allowed to breed, but i have not found a mature female australis yet.

That sucks man. Youve already had it 8 months? I guess it might be a little late to take it up with them then. I would be pretty mad too. I have never previously heard of this species before, but I did find something in a care sheet in a yahoo search saying that (the ground species) should have a tall enclosure with branches for climbing. So is he always perched up in his branches or does he go onto the floor and use his hides? I really dont have any experience with switching prey types so i cant help you there.

At this point I've had her for over two years. So yeah at first I was thinking perhaps she was just young and skinny. But by now... I dunno. It's tough to feed her as often as I should because of the availability of treefrogs in pet stores, and then sometimes she just fasts anyway, and the frog will die in her cage. She's a little pain in the butt.

I think her face is just gorgeous :) Even if she is a pain in the rear

I have a carinata and he has gone off feed for as long as 18 weeks.

Even when he's eating regularly he usually won't take food for 3 to 4 weeks.

They are picky eaters. I had to get ours on mice by scenting them with anoles. He has never had any interest in frogs.

What temps are you keeping her at?

i have a carinata girl that eats pinks every week, she's one of my best feeders. but then again most of the others are picky, some do get in a rythm though and once they're eating don't stop until winter.

how long is this tree/ground boa? and how bout a top-down shot on a flat surface.

this is a well fed carinata...
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...ia/024_013.jpg

I wonder if she's the same species as that snake? Her body shape is just much thinner even when she's been eating regularly. That doesnt happen for very long though... she's got a frog in her cage right now and is showing no interest. I'll keep trying to scent pinkies and maybe one day when she's hungry enough she'll go for it. I'd love to fatten her up.

you really just don't wanna give me a size huh?
From your pics i'll say she's not a carinata because she looks too big. the one i showed is full grown.

I just hadnt tried measuring her in a while because she's so difficult and twists into knots when I try to hold her... I tried just now and she's about 22".

In that last pic she's wrapped around my wrist, to give a feel for the size.

STILL has not eaten the frog in her tank. Ugh.

hmmm, i was really hopin' that would effectively take one of them out of the running, although it could take out carinata, although books and article say it won't but i have never seen a carinata that big, but i still think her head to neck ratio isn't right for a tree. I still wanna say she's just a rather deflated ground. Part of my reasoning is that she looks VERY similar in body size and shape to a halmahera that i used to have, which is why i'm saying that it may not be a tree boa and could still be a ground boa.

I have seen other pictures online of candoia carinata carinata that look a lot like my snake, the *most* like my snake, anyway... I guess it would be tough for anyone to tell unless examined in person. And it seems like there is a bit of variation between snakes claiming to be of the same species.

Here are some other pics of her:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...y/outside7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...y/outside8.jpg

She just seems too slender and inclined to wrap herself into knots to be a ground boa but maybe she's just weird :rolleyes:

i just can't really figure true size on her from the pics, so I don't know, sorry. it doesn't help that she won't eat, and candoia have real slow metabolisms anyway so that's two things working against you. But all Candoia do have prehensile tails, even aspera. What are the temps you're keeping her at?

As you can see in the first picture she's got a tall cage, its in the mid to high 80s at the top and low 80s at the bottom, goes to 70s at night.

And she finally ate the frog I gave her! :D

Maybe this pic will help with estimating the size...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ustshed004.jpg

These are pretty cool looking snakes.

I went to a petstore when I was young and the store owner (clueless) on how to care for them had like 15.

I purchased one for about 15 dollars. It was a tiny little thing. To small to eat live food.

He instructed me to force feed it a mouses tail. Which I did. It seemed to work for about 2 months.

Then it died.

Once again. I was probably in about 6th grade.

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...ia/024_013.jpg

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OMG she is beautiful! :O

Yeah, I still say not a tree boa. I can grab a pic of my carinata in my hand later if you wish for size judgement. But from the pics, and that doesn't mean that's the case... but from the pics, I'd say it might be a halmahera or a ground due to the proportions of the head to neck to body: and also it's too big for a carinata, and looks like it will be too fat for an australis. If only it'd start eating then you would be able to tell with more confidence, how much your little one will fill out will tell a lot.

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Originally Posted by darkangel

OMG she is beautiful! :O

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thanks amy, it's a damn good thing too because she was impossible at first. Now she's one of my best eaters.

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

Maybe this pic will help with estimating the size...

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http://www.johnstebbins.com/pics/pre...ustshed004.jpg

This is a very large Carinata. The lightened cloacal spot over the vent is the dead giveaway (take a closer look and snap a photo if you can just to make sure). It is no wonder you are having problems feeding...they are notorious. I would also say this is most likely wildcaught, which will make it even more stubborn, but not impossible to get healthy. You can see that it does not have very firm skin and slight low bodyweight.

A carinata that large is difficult to tell from an australis, so I don't entirely blame Regal.

Hope this helps!

well I defer to your superior knowledge, but really? carinata? I admit the head threw me off, but it's HUGE, and I personally have never seen a carinata that has those proportions.

btw, you have a pm

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

well I defer to your superior knowledge, but really? carinata? I admit the head threw me off, but it's HUGE, and I personally have never seen a carinata that has those proportions.

btw, you have a pm

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Hey Qik,

I don't have superior knowledge! Just happen to know this one little thing about the cloacal saddle (O'shea). It is a very large Carinata though-I feel certain of that, well, if I was certain of anything :)

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Originally Posted by johnst_nhb

Hey Qik,

I don't have superior knowledge! Just happen to know this one little thing about the cloacal saddle (O'shea). It is a very large Carinata though-I feel certain of that, well, if I was certain of anything :)

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Thanks, I most definitely did not know that. Good bit of info to have too. Since it is a carinata, my goodness it's uncharacteristically large at least from what I've seen.
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Originally Posted by qiksilver

Thanks, I most definitely did not know that. Good bit of info to have too. Since it is a carinata, my goodness it's uncharacteristically large at least from what I've seen.
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Boy Howdy! Biggest one I have seen...

Wow thanks for the insights everyone!

I guess I never realized *quite* how tough it can be to get the candoia figured out.

And yes I was told she was wild caught. I was also told she was eating pinkies... but she will take treefrogs once or twice a month. At the moment she is looking a bit wrinkly, though she did just eat. I don't really handle her any more so as to try to not stress her out too much. I know she doesnt look too healthy but she doesnt always like to cooperate :rolleyes:

And yes that spot is definitely lighter, her tail was always my favorite part because her patterns have more contrast there, heh. Though I also really like how she changes colors. Sometimes her patterns really stand out.

well candoia have slower metabolisms and therefore should eat less, so have you gotten her treated for internal parasites? not saying that's the problem, but that could be a factor. Honestly, she really is huge, before John came along I really thought she was just way too big. But I don't know how to help you, the one i posted was quite the problem, but I swapped her into a small rubbermaid to get her acclimated (and gave her big cage to a house snake) and I think the tightness helped. But then again I have another on a hunger strike, and another that won't shed... etc. Ah, candoia, just gotta love 'em for all their quirks.

Well I did some searching online and found that indeed, the lighter saddle above the ventral area is a characteristic of the species, and she's got it.

She's been treated for parasites. Now that I work at a pet store I can ensure a more steady supply of treefrogs for her at a lower price and try to fatten her up a bit, but I'm glad to know that she doesnt need to be fed every week like my other snakes anyway due to her lower metabolism.

And if you all think she's so big, perhaps she's getting old? I have no idea how to estimate her age and I never asked when I got her, since I assumed she was a ground boa I knew those are supposed to get a decent size so I thought she was a young one.

Seeing as she's skinny, I'd try and fatten her up a bit with feedings every week, sorry to say, haha. But once she's of good weight, a lot of people feed their adults every 3-4 weeks.

My female carinata is still on an every week pinky sched because once I am feeling strong enough to deal with such tiny troublesome babies, I'd like to breed her. Another reason is because she shows good body weight and is not obese on this schedule, plus is always ravenous when I go to feed her, so why change a good thing.

*oh, and I'd assume she's a pretty good age given her needing time to grow so big. But it's too bad there's no real way to tell how old she actually is.

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

Well I did some searching online and found that indeed, the lighter saddle above the ventral area is a characteristic of the species, and she's got it.

She's been treated for parasites. Now that I work at a pet store I can ensure a more steady supply of treefrogs for her at a lower price and try to fatten her up a bit, but I'm glad to know that she doesnt need to be fed every week like my other snakes anyway due to her lower metabolism.

And if you all think she's so big, perhaps she's getting old? I have no idea how to estimate her age and I never asked when I got her, since I assumed she was a ground boa I knew those are supposed to get a decent size so I thought she was a young one.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

Well I did some searching online and found that indeed, the lighter saddle above the ventral area is a characteristic of the species, and she's got it.

She's been treated for parasites. Now that I work at a pet store I can ensure a more steady supply of treefrogs for her at a lower price and try to fatten her up a bit, but I'm glad to know that she doesnt need to be fed every week like my other snakes anyway due to her lower metabolism.

And if you all think she's so big, perhaps she's getting old? I have no idea how to estimate her age and I never asked when I got her, since I assumed she was a ground boa I knew those are supposed to get a decent size so I thought she was a young one.

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You really should work hard at getting her to switch to pinkies. Carinata are very responsive to live hoppers...that is something you should try if you have not already. After a few live hoppers, try a F/T pinkie. Something about hoppers (not fuzzies) seems to stimulate their feeding response. Also check temps and humidity...

Let me know if you need any help with the above...

j

Thanks, I'll try a hopper... live pinkies didnt do much for her, I guess they dont move enough. For the first 8 months I had her I tried every pinky trick in the book but she wouldnt go for it. I'll see what I can do this summer, during the school year my parents take care of her because I can't take my snakes with me to college.

Im pretty sure my temps are ok (80s during the day 60s-70s at night) but what should the humidity be? I've read they like a medium level of humidity. The top of the tank is 3/4 covered (made it myself out of wood and wire mesh), she has a full water dish and I spray once in a while or simply overflow her dish (cocofiber as the substrate). She loves to soak, especially in the evenings.

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

Thanks, I'll try a hopper... live pinkies didnt do much for her, I guess they dont move enough. For the first 8 months I had her I tried every pinky trick in the book but she wouldnt go for it. I'll see what I can do this summer, during the school year my parents take care of her because I can't take my snakes with me to college.

Im pretty sure my temps are ok (80s during the day 60s-70s at night) but what should the humidity be? I've read they like a medium level of humidity. The top of the tank is 3/4 covered (made it myself out of wood and wire mesh), she has a full water dish and I spray once in a while or simply overflow her dish (cocofiber as the substrate). She loves to soak, especially in the evenings.

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Hey humidity should be around 50-60% normally, with misting a few times a week to boost it. Big water dish too. Also look into Reptibark. Mine thrive with that substrate.

You say your parents take care of her while you are at college? Are they qualified? I don't mean any offense at all, but Candoia are far from easy to keep [properly]-ESPECIALLY Carinata. Is she getting the kind of care she needs?

Ok I think I've got pretty good humidity.

And my parents, well, they get her a treefrog once or twice a month and make sure she's always got clean water. I make sure to remind them of feeding and misting, etc. My dad loooves snakes, in fact this snake in particular was his idea to get in the first place.

well once you get a good feeding response, you'll have a great feeder... not to take away from the focus of the thread... but my carinata girl just bit me because she thought i was feeding her!

Hahaha nice :P

My girl loves jumpy things, its the jumping of a frog that gets her going to strike, though she is not yet fooled by dangling "jumping" pinky mice. I work tomorrow and I'll get some live hoppers and see what happens.

if that's the case then hoppers should work, mine loved the spastic jump-stop-teeter-jump thing that they do. I just think it's the erratic movement that gets their attention.

Yeah, I've noticed some animals can really tell the difference between real movements and fake "twitching" movements that we create by moving around dead prey.

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

Hahaha nice :P

My girl loves jumpy things, its the jumping of a frog that gets her going to strike, though she is not yet fooled by dangling "jumping" pinky mice. I work tomorrow and I'll get some live hoppers and see what happens.

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Yes, that is the idea with the hoppers. And when you switch to F/T pinkies, hover them *above* their heads. For some reason, this stimulates the feeding response even more in carinata (not all, but some).

Good to hear she is getting proper care when you are gone...not many parents are willing!

SHE ATE A HOPPER MOUSE!!! :banana:

We got some small mice in at the pet store today so I dangled one above her head for a moment, dropped it... she gave it one sniff and struck. I was amazed, she usually wont even do that with frogs, I thought for sure it would sit in there a few days until maybe she felt like hunting it down. And she even just ate a frog recently so I wasnt sure if she'd be hungry. Whew. I didn't think it would be that easy, haha.

I am soooooooooooo happy right now :carrot: Will make it much much easier to get her to a healthy weight now.

Thanks again for all the advice :)

sigh. Well I guess I started celebrating too soon. She killed the mouse, and started to swallow it... but she couldnt get past the head, and gave up. Found the mouse lying on the bottom of the cage this morning. Guess I'll try another one in a few days, a smaller one.

It gives me hope that at least she struck and strangled it.

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

sigh. Well I guess I started celebrating too soon. She killed the mouse, and started to swallow it... but she couldnt get past the head, and gave up. Found the mouse lying on the bottom of the cage this morning. Guess I'll try another one in a few days, a smaller one.

It gives me hope that at least she struck and strangled it.

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Do not be dissappointed! This is great progress.

Get another hopper and place it in the cage before you go to bed and check in the morning. Carinata are nocturnal feeders by nature so feeding at night is important-at least until they are habituated to mice. You should not need to dangle a live hopper, just put it in the cage. When you are trying to switch to F/T then you should dangle.

Is there any reason that you can think of as to why it couldn't get past the head? Was it a large mouse? If so, make sure it is a small hopper (just above fuzzy stage). This is critical to get her eating mice. After several good feeds with a hopper, you can try F/T pinkies with dangling technique (you will need to make sure the pinkies are thoroughly warm).

Interesting tidbit: My very large SITB will take a F/T rat and go through all the motions, will get that sucker 1/2 way in its mouth and regurge. However, with a F/T mouse she is ravenous. She simply will not take rats...

So, make sure you are using hopper mice! I would not attempt to feed her anything but a hopper for the next few weeks...

Good luck and keep us posted!!

I thought the mouse was a good size, but we have more that are small so I'll set them aside and try again in a few days. I always feed my snakes at night before I go to bed because I know most of them prefer to eat in the dark and in peace. I was really hoping it would be gone by the morning... but I won't give up.

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

I thought the mouse was a good size, but we have more that are small so I'll set them aside and try again in a few days. I always feed my snakes at night before I go to bed because I know most of them prefer to eat in the dark and in peace. I was really hoping it would be gone by the morning... but I won't give up.

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I am sure you will have success with it. Keep us posted!

Well she killed another hopper, quite quickly. However, just as before, she's just dragging it around in the tank, and cant get past the head. The mouse might be a tad too big but it seems like if she put some more effort into it, she would be fine. I guess I'll find out in the morning if she finishes it off.

I wont be able to get live fuzzies until next week because my boss is on vacation... I'm betting that with her attack response the way it is, a fuzzy/almost hopper would be just perfect.

Sigh. Once again, she could not finish off the hopper.

I'll try wiggling an f/t pinky for her when I feed the other snakes this week just for the heck of it. If she doesnt go for that I'll just wait until I can get something smaller thats alive.

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

Sigh. Once again, she could not finish off the hopper.

I'll try wiggling an f/t pinky for her when I feed the other snakes this week just for the heck of it. If she doesnt go for that I'll just wait until I can get something smaller thats alive.

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I think you are making great progress! My carinata did the same thing before finally eating. You are almost there. I would wait about 1 week and try again...

Also, does your carinata have a hidebox? if not, he should...

the first time i got my carinata to eat a mouse she was in a 16 cup sterilite with a hide box with bedding stuffed in it and paper towels on the ground. She wouldn't eat in a glass tank. So maybe try something like that. Because the first mouse she ate was a hopper (because of the movement), and it was about 5 times her girth, but she killed it and ate it just fine.

start asking for the smallest hoppers they have, or even fresh weaned mice so they're still small but can still stay alive without their mother to give her time to try and eat it. The harder part is getting them to recognize mice as food, so I agree with John, you are making progress.

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG!!!

So, it's feeding time and I took out a f/t pinky destined for one of my milk snakes, when I paused to dangle it above my boa's head, as usual, not expecting any reaction.

This time, she struck out and missed, and with my heart racing I wiggled it some more and she grabbed it! She thrashed around a bit, trying to "kill" it... and she finally ate the whole thing!

I am SO relieved, I had gotten so excited before when she killed the mice, and now, hopefully she'll keep attacking the f/t pinkies! I was going to try getting her some live fuzzies at work tomorrow but this is even better!

:carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot:

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG!!!

So, it's feeding time and I took out a f/t pinky destined for one of my milk snakes, when I paused to dangle it above my boa's head, as usual, not expecting any reaction.

This time, she struck out and missed, and with my heart racing I wiggled it some more and she grabbed it! She thrashed around a bit, trying to "kill" it... and she finally ate the whole thing!

I am SO relieved, I had gotten so excited before when she killed the mice, and now, hopefully she'll keep attacking the f/t pinkies! I was going to try getting her some live fuzzies at work tomorrow but this is even better!

:carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot: :carrot:

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GREAT!!! Now, remember that carinata have very slow metabolisms. I would not offer food again for another couple of weeks. i go 2-3 weeks between feedings with mine. Too much too soon could keep her from staying on the f/t. They do best when hungry.

Good job!

j

Can you post some more pics of her?

I'm excited to try again, hehe, but yeah I bet it will help if she's hungry and has more of an instant "strike at anything that moves" response. And hopefully now she realizes that mouse smelling things are food.

I'll take pictures the next time she eats :D

And I sent pictures to Jerry Conway, since I did lots of reading from his website on candoia, and he agreed it is a carinata. Wont get any longer but I hope to at least get her a bit fatter, she has gotten a bit wrinkly.

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Originally Posted by weirdbuglady

I'm excited to try again, hehe, but yeah I bet it will help if she's hungry and has more of an instant "strike at anything that moves" response. And hopefully now she realizes that mouse smelling things are food.

I'll take pictures the next time she eats :D

And I sent pictures to Jerry Conway, since I did lots of reading from his website on candoia, and he agreed it is a carinata. Wont get any longer but I hope to at least get her a bit fatter, she has gotten a bit wrinkly.

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Was there any doubt she was a carinata? ;)

Yeah, she is undernourished, but will fatten up on the mice! Good Luck!