How do I start to breed morphs?

Hi guys, hope you can help. I recently bought a female normal bp. She is completely normal, no het (?) as far as I am aware. I would love to breed her but want to get some morphs from her, possibly caramels or spiders. Is this possible? What sort of male would I need to breed her with in order to do this?
Thanks for your help.

to get spiders from her you would need to buy a spider male. they are co dom and will produce half spider and have normals when bred to a normal

to get a caramel you would have to get a caramel male and breed her to it then wait for the female babies to grow up which would be 100% hets and breed the dad to the daughters

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Originally Posted by aubrey

Hi guys, hope you can help. I recently bought a female normal bp. She is completely normal, no het (?) as far as I am aware. I would love to breed her but want to get some morphs from her, possibly caramels or spiders. Is this possible? What sort of male would I need to breed her with in order to do this?
Thanks for your help.

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The only way to get morphs in a clutch from a normal is breed a co/ dom or dom morphed animal to her. Spider is an option but caramel is a 3 year + deal. Depends on how much time your willing to invest.

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Originally Posted by aubrey

Hi guys, hope you can help. I recently bought a female normal bp. She is completely normal, no het (?) as far as I am aware. I would love to breed her but want to get some morphs from her, possibly caramels or spiders. Is this possible? What sort of male would I need to breed her with in order to do this?
Thanks for your help.

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It's a little more complicated than that. Generally you have two different types of morphs: recessive and codominant (or dominant). Recessive morphs need a pair of genes in order to become visual, and with codom or dominant morphs they only need one gene from a parent. If you want to produce visual morphs with your normal girl, you will need to breed her to a codom or dominant male such as a spider, pinstripe, cinny/black pastel, pastel, yellow belly, etc. Here is a link that explains it visually: http://ballpythons.ca/genetics.html

Ok, thanks thats helpful. I don't want to go down the route of caramel breeding babies with dad etc, I would like to get some visual morphs from my first clutch. Spider certainly sounds like a good option and I really like them.

Could I just opt for a normal male visual spider to breed with her or would he need to be a het spider? Please forgive my ignorance, I'm very new to all of this!

The next question is would I have to buy a male spider or are there people who would let me breed my normal female with their spider male for a fee or pick of the babies? I know they do this with dogs etc, but snakes are not so simple! :) thanks for your help.

Spiders are dominant, so if you bred a spider to your female, each egg has a 50% chance of being a spider(or a normal).

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Originally Posted by aubrey

The next question is would I have to buy a male spider or are there people who would let me breed my normal female with their spider male for a fee or pick of the babies? I know they do this with dogs etc, but snakes are not so simple! :) thanks for your help.

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Yes, that's called a breeding loan. You can ask around, but I would suggest that you find someone with a good reputation and someone that you trust instead of the first (or only) person that comes around.

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Originally Posted by aubrey

Ok, thanks thats helpful. I don't want to go down the route of caramel breeding babies with dad etc, I would like to get some visual morphs from my first clutch. Spider certainly sounds like a good option and I really like them.

Could I just opt for a normal male visual spider to breed with her or would he need to be a het spider? Please forgive my ignorance, I'm very new to all of this!

The next question is would I have to buy a male spider or are there people who would let me breed my normal female with their spider male for a fee or pick of the babies? I know they do this with dogs etc, but snakes are not so simple! :) thanks for your help.

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Since the Spider gene is dominant, you will not get any 'hets' for dominant or codominant genes. Het's are only applied to a normal looking animal that carries the genetic for a recessive gene.

Ok, where would I start to look for a breeding loan? I am based in West Sussex, South England, UK, about an hour from London. Any idea what this might cost? Or would they take their pick from the babies? Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Purrrfect9

Since the Spider gene is dominant, you will not get any 'hets' for dominant or codominant genes. Het's are only applied to a normal looking animal that carries the genetic for a recessive gene.

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So am I right in thinking that you can't get a het spider then? I assume you only get visual spiders, and not snakes that look normal but carry the gene? Slowly getting there :)

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Originally Posted by aubrey

So am I right in thinking that you can't get a het spider then? I assume you only get visual spiders, and not snakes that look normal but carry the gene? Slowly getting there :)

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Correct!!!

Great! Slowly starting to get my head around these genetics. I really do find it fascinating! So the next step is to look to get a breeder loan of a spider male to breed with, or take the plunge and buy one :O Any one have an idea of UK prices for such a snake? Any for sale? :D

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Originally Posted by aubrey

Great! Slowly starting to get my head around these genetics. I really do find it fascinating! So the next step is to look to get a breeder loan of a spider male to breed with, or take the plunge and buy one :O Any one have an idea of UK prices for such a snake? Any for sale? :D

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http://www.crystalpalacereptiles.com...ider06M&cat=33

£1195 :eek: :eek:

Think I'll have to look for a breeder loan instead, just can't afford to buy one :(

You should see about getting on a payment plan from a breeder. That way you can have your snake in a few months and make payments you can afford.

Just not sure I can justify spending that much money on a snake. I know some people will say I should not do things by halves, but I think I would rather get a breeder loan.

how big is your female? have you weighed her?

She is about 4ft long, 2.5kg and about 10 years old. She is still a virgin, but hopefully not for long ;)

imo, since you already have female to breed with, i would buy a spider male. breed them, get some babies and make your money back. it would kind of be like getting a free snake and a cool expierence in one.


or just save up your money and buy a spider when you can afford one.


vaughn

I suppose that is an option, just a lot of money to outlay. The cheapest spider I can see on the net is £1000. Anyone seen any cheaper snakes? Of course you pay for what you get, but perhaps a small private breeder might be more reasonable than a large commercial breeder?

I also have a normal male of breeding age, so a possibility is breeding with him first to get some experience. What do you think?

Do you like Pastels? Same breeding principles as the spider... you'll get pastels and/or normals in your first breeding (though with Pastels you can get Super Pastels when you breed two Pastels together). And Pastels are cheaper than Spiders.

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

Do you like Pastels? Same breeding principles as the spider... you'll get pastels and/or normals in your first breeding (though with Pastels you can get Super Pastels when you breed two Pastels together). And Pastels are cheaper than Spiders.

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Even though this is true...spiders have made some of the coolest morphs in my opinion...and everything with the reduced spider pattern just seems to look cooler...even the pastel...i just bought a spider for this very reason.

Well, you could get the pastel male(cheaper) then later get a spider to make bumblebees!!
Just a thought.. I love bumblebees...
Wolfy

Pastels are ok, but I far prefer spiders, they are so pretty! I also love the bumblebees. So if I bred a pastel with a spider I would get bumblebees? Think I need to find a friendly breeder in the south of England I could send my female to to be bred with....

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Originally Posted by aubrey

Pastels are ok, but I far prefer spiders, they are so pretty! I also love the bumblebees. So if I bred a pastel with a spider I would get bumblebees? Think I need to find a friendly breeder in the south of England I could send my female to to be bred with....

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I so would...but my roommate has a male lemon pastel...and so they will be our first project, but if I get some female spider i will let you know.

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

I so would...but my roommate has a male lemon pastel...and so they will be our first project, but if I get some female spider i will let you know.

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Sounds interesting, so what would we get breeding a lemon pastel male with a normal female? I assume half the babies would be lemon pastel, half the babies would be normal?

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Originally Posted by aubrey

Sounds interesting, so what would we get breeding a lemon pastel male with a normal female? I assume half the babies would be lemon pastel, half the babies would be normal?

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That is correct

Hmm, interesting, so any ideas where I go next? Either a breeder loan or try and find a reasonably priced spider male.

Everyone always says how much they love bumblebees and is why they want to pick up a spider, no one seems to remember that bumblebees are spider X pastel so you need both. Pastels are so much cheaper then spiders and personally I think they are more useful as a combination morph.

Mark

How much difference in price is there between pastels and spiders? Any idea of a UK price for a male pastel? Thanks.

I don't know about UK prices, but around here a male pastel will only be between $100.00-$200.00, they're about the cheapest actual morph you can get. Even a female pastel will often be cheaper then a male spider.

Mark