Something I have noticed...

I see it happening more and more and it kinda concerns me. Anytime someone makes a post, even if its the QR, that is even the slightest bit offensive or controversial, the poster has some type of disclaimer in the post. Either saying they are simply throwing in a new question, does not favor this or that, is just looking at the other side of the argument, whatever the case may be.

One reason I feel people include these disclaimers cause they are afraid of being slapped with negative rep, which anyone can do is actually very easily done but has a huge effect on the persons, well, rep.

The other reason I feel people have to include such disclaimers is one thing I have noticed on the board is people love to hop on the "hatewagon". It just seems people are eager to jump down someones throat when they say something they dont like, or simply don't agree with, and the response is negative rep and post that stir up even more arguments.

This post isn't to stir up trouble, just a simple observation from someone who spends alot of time here. Such examples of disclaimers are as follows:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...69&postcount=3

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...7&postcount=14

One from myself:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...98&postcount=1

Does it strike anyone else that there may be a problem if people have to feel the need to protect themselves from the feed back of others?

EDIT: And I just noticed I put this in the sub category of Site Info and not the Site Feedback & Suggestions forum, would a mod be so kind as to move it to the proper forum please. :D

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Does it strike anyone else that there may be a problem if people have to feel the need to protect themselves from the feed back of others?

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I find it more that if you feel you have to post a disclaimer, then perhaps you should stop before you hit submit.

If even YOU recognize that a post could be distasteful and needs a disclaimer, then perhaps it's not something worth sharing.

You yourself caught a lot of heat for posting a pretty controversial video a couple of months ago, and I really don't think that a disclaimer would have "saved" you back then or even now with that one. That was one example where you should have just "stepped away from the keyboard" before posting, especially to a board full of animal lovers.

So as to your question does it strike anyone else that there may be a problem if people have to feel the need to protect themselves from the feedback of others? No - can't say as I do. Use good judgement when posting and you shouldn't have problems. It's just a forum on the huge internet - not real life, and certainly not something you should feel you have to "protect" yourself from.

i agree you should not have to prtect yourself like that i myself have no seen any post on here that needs protection but the way some people get upse over he little things has gotten out of hand. like the post of the person feeding a puppy to the boa yes it was upseting that some one feed a puppy to a snake but i wasn't wrong for him to do so if the snake could handle that size a prey and the key word is prey they puppy is another form or prey to the hungry snake which is just looking for a meal. so i think people on here need to relize we are not perfect we are people and what one persons see as wrong or right is not the same as what everyone one else and if you disagree with someone that is fine and expected as everyone is different and has different morals. take this: the other day me and a few freind where driveing down the road over here and saw a 30-35 year old lady in one of those hover round things sitting at a light waiting for it to turn green so she could cross and the whole time she was there all she did was spin around and around so my one freind does a jester of her being retarded or something and his girlfreind got mad and asked him why he did that and he told her because she's acking silly in that hover round and she she what would you doif you where in there and he said the samething as her and i would be acking stupid but haveing fun. so was it wrong for him to make fun of her yes and no she was acking silly and haveing fun.

Hi,


Well everyone interprets things differently.

I totally agree with Robin on this one. You can think anything you like, and certainly no one has a right to try and stop you, but part of acting in a civilised fashion is considering how your actions and public pronouncements affect others.

If you say something someone else finds offensive it is not always them that is to blame you know.:P

It comes down to making a judgement call on what you choose to share - and using the feedback from others to inform that choice. In the above example he should try and remember what his girlfriend finds appropriate for him to share with her in future.:)

I don't think anyone on the board expects you to be perfect but they do expect you to at least consider their feelings.:)

So, if you feel the need to protect yourself from the feedback of others, you might find it's easier to do it by not saying something you know will upset them that much.

Then again there is the whole art of diplomacy which teaches how to say things that need to be said while causing the least offense. Try typing the message and then reading it back to yourself trying to imagine you had no idea who typed it or their mood at the time. Tone is an extremely hard thing to convey accurately by text alone and a lot of the "drama" is actually caused by mis-interpretation of a message that could have been worded differently.

Just my :2cent:


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Then again there is the whole art of diplomacy which teaches how to say things that need to be said while causing the least offense. Try typing the message and then reading it back to yourself trying to imagine you had no idea who typed it or their mood at the time. Tone is an extremely hard thing to convey accurately by text alone and a lot of the "drama" is actually caused by mis-interpretation of a message that could have been worded differently.

dr del

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I think you hit the nail on the head. To many times we see members jump the gun and hit submit without thinking what they are typing and how it will be perceived which starts a chain reaction (usually for the negative). Along with this we see members jump to respond to a post like this without thinking about how it was intended. As a reminder text does NOT convey emotion so you have no idea if what you are reading was made in jest, anger, sympathy, remorse, etc. My recommendation is just to slow down and try being in the other persons shoes.

By the way disclaimers are legal text added to remove liability...they have zero value and are pointless in a forum where they are trying to be used to stop a negative impression.

Alright, here's my take on the matter.

People use said "disclaimers" for various reasons. Most times a user feels that a disclaimer is necessary, the user should never hit the submit button, as Robin stated. However I personnaly believe there is a use for little notes as in the posts you linked to. Reason why: Just as Derek said you need to be careful of what you say and how you say it, because other users cannot draw easily from your text the mood your in. But it works the other way too! Many people come to the forum at odd hours and arn't exactly awake, or they've taken pain meds for that hurt foot or something, they just enjoy a little drink to take the edge off the day, or they just straight up dont read posts carefully and come to the wrong conclusions as to what the posters intentions are if the post is long and drawn out. I feel it's effective at times to sum it all up in one sentence at the bottom and make it big and bold so it's hard to misinterpret my intentions, especially in a thread that has a bit of controversy in it. I guess in these cases it's not really a "disclaimer", but rather just another way of getting your point across, or clearifying something that may be a little vague. If you play devil's advocate, every once and awhile someone will come through and not catch that important little peice of information and will come to believe you actually agree with said devil.

I personnaly think people are way too worried about their rep. When there is a heated debate going on, it pains me at times when people continuously post about negative reps, especially un-signed ones. If your making good, clear, thoughtful posts the good reps will always outweigh the bad, so suck it up for the time being, keep offering advice and your set. Reps really arnt that important in the long run. I'm NOT saying to make posts with the intent of causing trouble, or jsut to get a reaction, however I feel if you honestly believe something, you should speak up about it, in a clear, non-abbrasive way so as not to sound like a :taz: and end up a public enemy.

"Hatewagons" are going to form on every forum. The reason is, it's a public forum. You get the bad with the good. Luckily here at bp.net we are gifted with what I've found to be an abnormal good:bad ratio in our favor. This place is awesome, and have amazing mods/admins to keep said "hatewagons" under control and to keep the convos productive, however if the occasional hit by the "hatewagon" offends you... a public forum is probably not the best place for you.

Sorry if this is a little disorganized and hard to follow, I'm a wee bit sleepy. Had a long night studying for summer school exams! BOO!

how do you know what your rep is? Or if someone gave you bad rep.

Click UserCP and it's located under the threads your subscribed to. If you have a red dot, it's a neg rep, green = good!

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Originally Posted by Gooseman

Click UserCP and it's located under the threads your subscribed to. If you have a red dot, it's a neg rep, green = good!

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And a grey dot means the person leaving the comment does not yet have "rep power" and therefore a point was neither added nor subtracted. ;)

Personally I think heated debates are one of the joys of belonging to a forum. No one seems too shy about expressing their personal opinions and as long as it doesn't go too far, you may come out at the end of it with a new perspective on an issue that you hadn't previously considered.

what if you have green and grey

Red square - negative reputation
Green square - positive reputation
Grey square - no points +/- (user was unable to use the rep system - usually because they are still a grand new member)

Reputation System FAQ

Thanks i learn something new everytime i log on... :carrot:

i'm not sure the whole, think before speaking line works all the time, I agree there needs to be much more brain to mouth connection in some people, but sometimes, I think, people are just way too emotionally charged about an issue, so if you try to play devils advocate, or even add a little reason to counteract the mainly gut reactions people have then people will still get angry. not everyone has to have the same thoughts, and even if people have the same thoughts they believe that thinking is an important part of living and that maybe you should consider the other side (which more often than not you won't do), and many times considering the other side is not what people would like to do, or even hear about.

for example, the original post had a post from ben copied. he stated his opinion, then played devils advocate, but since he knew he would get a bunch of grief about it, he added the disclaimer. Most people reacted emotionally to this, so when he tried to add reason that was not the popular opinion, hence the disclaimer hoping at least half the people would catch what he was trying to say before they replied to his post with their most emotional gut reaction.
At least that's my take on it, and my reasoning.

does this make any sense? I'm still thinking in java from a computer programming class, not english yet, but it makes sense in my head so i hope it makes sense here...

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

i'm not sure the whole, think before speaking line works all the time, I agree there needs to be much more brain to mouth connection in some people, but sometimes, I think, people are just way too emotionally charged about an issue, so if you try to play devils advocate, or even add a little reason to counteract the mainly gut reactions people have then people will still get angry. not everyone has to have the same thoughts, and even if people have the same thoughts they believe that thinking is an important part of living and that maybe you should consider the other side (which more often than not you won't do), and many times considering the other side is not what people would like to do, or even hear about.

for example, the original post had a post from ben copied. he stated his opinion, then played devils advocate, but since he knew he would get a bunch of grief about it, he added the disclaimer. Most people reacted emotionally to this, so when he tried to add reason that was not the popular opinion, hence the disclaimer hoping at least half the people would catch what he was trying to say before they replied to his post with their most emotional gut reaction.
At least that's my take on it, and my reasoning.

does this make any sense? I'm still thinking in java from a computer programming class, not english yet, but it makes sense in my head so i hope it makes sense here...

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Your right, you cannot get people to think before they type in many situations, however this is where the neg rep comes in handy. If you just shoot your mouth off on a gut instinct, there's a good chance someones gonna slap you with a neg rep. Now as I said earlier, I don't take much stock in the rep system, however every neg rep I receive I take to heart and try my best to make adjustments to the way I present myself here without compromising my opinions. Thats all the neg reps really are, just a slap on the wrist to get your attention most of the time.

Now of course there are heated discussions with varying opinions that for one reason or another will prevent people from seeing eye to eye. One needs to take that into account before they call the other person "stupid", "ignorant", or any other less-tasteful remarks about one's intelligence, and try to make CONSTRUCTIVE posts. If your not willing to accept, or even take a deeper look at someone else's opinion, you might as well point yours out and then never come back to the thread because little good can come from a close-minded argument. Now I know this is not a perfect world and you cannot make people act accordingly, however it really only takes a few good examples to make the place a much more light-hearted yet very serious place for people of similar interests to commune. I know I've been guilty of not holding up these standards before, and at some point I'll probably slip again, but ya just gotta do your best everytime you sign on to not take anything too personnaly, because seriously, what good is a INTERNET FIGHT? It's just plain childish. :salute:

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

i'm not sure the whole, think before speaking line works all the time, I agree there needs to be much more brain to mouth connection in some people, but sometimes, I think, people are just way too emotionally charged about an issue, so if you try to play devils advocate, or even add a little reason to counteract the mainly gut reactions people have then people will still get angry. not everyone has to have the same thoughts, and even if people have the same thoughts they believe that thinking is an important part of living and that maybe you should consider the other side (which more often than not you won't do), and many times considering the other side is not what people would like to do, or even hear about.

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Hi,

I agree that using reason against an emotional,gut reaction will only provoke outcry a great deal of the time - so I tend not to bother.

I also agree not everyone has to think about things the same way, I don't feel the need to try and change peoples deeply held beliefs most of the time and I don't really expect them to try and change mine.:)

I try to be open minded about most things and consider both sides of the argument rationally but not everyone chooses to do things that way or enjoys it when someone else does so in a discussion with them (my saint of a mother springs to mind here :P ).

As Ben rightly said the rep system should never be that big a deal - it certainly wasn't intended to be from what I can see.

And I tend to agree the most important thing is to try and remain constructive in your outlook and avoid demeaning or attacking people.

The internet fight point was also well made - there are plenty of sites on the web where nothing but screaming matches and fights fill page after page if that sort of thing floats your boat.

Personally I like and respect the fact that this site makes an effort to stay friendly, welcoming and tolerant. If I felt the need for drama I would try and start it somewhere more appropriate I promise.:D

I try and read as much of the site as I can and quite often I will see the start of a thread and think to myself "well that's going to turn into a trainwreck" - a wonderfully large percentage of the time it doesn't and that is due entirely to the people on here respecting each others opinions.

Now nothing is perfect and we all have off days ( I personally have about 7 of them a week on occasion) but I know I think a lot harder before giving neg rep than I do with pos rep.

I think I have given neg rep all of 3 or 4 times since I joined and I always sign them anyway but I think it's important to keep pointing out to people that if they recieve rep they feel is unfair they should contact a member of staff.


dr del

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I find it more that if you feel you have to post a disclaimer, then perhaps you should stop before you hit submit.

If even YOU recognize that a post could be distasteful and needs a disclaimer, then perhaps it's not something worth sharing.

You yourself caught a lot of heat for posting a pretty controversial video a couple of months ago, and I really don't think that a disclaimer would have "saved" you back then or even now with that one. That was one example where you should have just "stepped away from the keyboard" before posting, especially to a board full of animal lovers.

So as to your question does it strike anyone else that there may be a problem if people have to feel the need to protect themselves from the feedback of others? No - can't say as I do. Use good judgement when posting and you shouldn't have problems. It's just a forum on the huge internet - not real life, and certainly not something you should feel you have to "protect" yourself from.

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NOW that's a post worth some pos rep... and consider yourself HIT by me girl!!!

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Originally Posted by Gooseman

however every neg rep I receive I take to heart and try my best to make adjustments to the way I present myself here without compromising my opinions.

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i agree completely!!! i know i look at any neg reps i get and honestly take stock of myself in that moment...

cause 'growth' is a good thing. change is a good thing. and sharing my opinion in a friendly non-threathening intelligent way is a very good thing!