Man feeds puppy to boa.. wait... what?

Ok, sorry if this is a double post. I heard about this on the news this morning. I tried to search to see if a post had been created on this yet. Was suprised when I didn't find anything.


Man who fed puppy to boa gets 90 days in jail: :eek:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19234199/

What a DUMMY! :twisted: He's messed in the head for sure!

Should have fed him to the boa.

That man is flipping insane to feed a puppy to a 8ft boa, oh heck, a snake of any size. Let alone to coat it in cooking oil and have two teenagers watch presumably for the sole purpose of amusement.

However, playing devils advocate, how is feeding a puppy any more cruel than feeding a rat or bunny or fetal pigs? Do dogs have that extra layer of feelings that other animals don't thus making it worthy of charging him with animal cruelty? I am by far not saying people should even consider feeding their snakes dogs, but to me the essence of that law seems bogus. I think people who do feed like this have a few screws loose and probably shouldn't be owning pets anyways (taking into point the fact the boa was taken from his possession due to neglect).

The only thing in this case that I believe worth prosecuting is the coating of oil and the show he put on for the teenagers.

JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR, I DO NOT SUPPORT HIM FEEDING PUPPIES! I THINK IT'S SICK, I JUST DON'T SEE HOW IT'S LEGALLY POSSIBLE TO PROSECUTE HIM FOR DOING SO

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Originally Posted by Gooseman

However, playing devils advocate, how is feeding a puppy any more cruel than feeding a rat or bunny or fetal pigs?

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Well for one thing I don't think puppies are considered to be one of their natural food sources.

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Genus/species: Boa constrictor
Diet in the Wild:
This snake feeds on large lizards, small or moderate-sized birds, opossums, bats, mongooses, rats, and squirrels.

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Yep...nope, puppies aren't listed..

Just sayin'

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

Well for one thing I don't think puppies are considered to be one of their natural food sources.

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I am not going to argue that, however doggy chow isn't exactly a natural food source either. I really am not supporting him or his decision to do so. But I still don't see how it's any more cruel, unless the puppy was of a size that made it difficult for the snake to put down.

That looney of a man deserves what's coming to him, a big guy named Gus, however at the same time the legal logistics of it are beyond me.

Just a thought though, I am not certain, however I would not be at all surprised if anacondas and retics take down wild dogs in their natural settings.

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Originally Posted by Gooseman

however doggy chow isn't exactly a natural food source either. I really am not supporting him or his decision to do so. But I still don't see how it's any more cruel, unless the puppy was of a size that made it difficult for the snake to put down.

That looney of a man deserves what's coming to him, a big guy named Gus, however at the same time the legal logistics of it are beyond me.

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there are lots of groups of wild dogs down in the areas where boas are from. it would not be soupriseing to me if once in a blue moon a large boa came across a litter of pups and snaged one.

i also have no idea on what grounds they threw him in jail on. by leagle standards there is no difference between feeding a dog, rat or a rabbit.


the problem is that we are not the only ones that argew the point that there is no difference. soon all people will say if what he did is illiagle then feeding rats should be against the law. and boom they will have found a way for people to not keep snakes. not by baning snakes but by banning feeding them.

I like this story much better :)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18872031/

agreed way to focus on the good stories in life.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

there are lots of groups of wild dogs down in the areas where boas are from. it would not be soupriseing to me if once in a blue moon a large boa came across a litter of pups and snaged one.

i also have no idea on what grounds they threw him in jail on. by leagle standards there is no difference between feeding a dog, rat or a rabbit.


the problem is that we are not the only ones that argew the point that there is no difference. soon all people will say if what he did is illiagle then feeding rats should be against the law. and boom they will have found a way for people to not keep snakes. not by baning snakes but by banning feeding them.

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I figured as much, just because something isnt on a boa's list of typical prey, the doesn't mean there arn't targets of opportunity.

Matt, I guess we better start teachin our snakes to eat sausage that we stick a multi-vitamin in... or better yet prepare for the coming vegetatian society and start them on tofu! lol, that would be quite a sight. A boa eating tofu... :rofl:

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

there are lots of groups of wild dogs down in the areas where boas are from. it would not be soupriseing to me if once in a blue moon a large boa came across a litter of pups and snaged one.

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Originally Posted by Gooseman

I figured as much, just because something isnt on a boa's list of typical prey, the doesn't mean there arn't targets of opportunity.

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Occasionally or sometimes maybe snagging one in the wild and intentionally feeding your (pet) boa a (pet) puppy are kinda different in my eyes. :2cent:

did they say if it was a pet or if it was a stray he found.

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

Occasionally or sometimes maybe snagging one in the wild and intentionally feeding your (pet) boa a (pet) puppy are kinda different in my eyes. :2cent:

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Of course feeding a pet is different than feeding a non-pet. That is why I agree that this guy, and anyone else who would feed a puppy off is screwed up in the head. However the argument here is whether or not it is any more cruel, and to this extent I do not believe it is any more cruel to the puppy than it is to a rat/bunny to become prey.

I think what Gooseman is saying is something like this - we as a society apply moral treatment to animals based on cultural norms.

In other words, it doesn't make people think twice when you hear about snakes eating rats, but then when a snake eats a puppy it makes front page news.

I think its wrong to feed a puppy or a kitten to a snake more or less because to me, puppies and kittens are companion animals that relate to us more - so these animals basically get better moral treatment? There are some people out there that are die-hard rodent fans that cringe at the fact that their beloved pets are fed off to snakes without a second thought.

The same goes with reptiles. If people neglect a group of dogs/cats, the humane society breaks the door down, rescues the animals, and prosecutes the owners. If a group of reptiles are neglected in the same way, they die slow deaths and the authorities rarely if ever get involved. I'm just illustrating the different levels of moral treatment that society applies to different groups of animals.

Susan, I appreciate you sharing this with us.

I agree that this is sick and twisted.

I have heard of snakes eating humans but that doesn't mean I am ready to toss a baby in with any just because it happened in the wild.

:rolleyes:

It really has no bearing whether it was a pet or not.

First of all they stated that the snake was neglected so more than likely he fed it off as sick humor rather than "I need to feed my wonderful snake." Especially since he had a couple of impressionable kids there to watch.

I think it was completely wrong.

jmo.

In Asian countries, they eat cats and dogs. In some areas, they are thrown, alive, in containers of hot oil that melts their fur, eyes, and outer layers of skin (saves time in the manual skinning process) and are then removed and hung to dry. Most if not all are still alive (barely) at this point and are hung to die a slow painful death.

I saw a video of this and it was sickening, to say the least.

feeding a baby to a snake is quite a bit diffrent than a dog. that comment really dosent apply.

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Originally Posted by ReptileFan

feeding a baby to a snake is quite a bit diffrent than a dog. that comment really dosent apply.

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it was an analogy.

:rolleyes:

It applies in the fact that just because they eat dogs in the wild does not make it right to do it in captivity.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

In Asian countries, they eat cats and dogs. In some areas, they are thrown, alive, in containers of hot oil that melts their fur, eyes, and outer layers of skin (saves time in the manual skinning process) and are then removed and hung to dry. Most if not all are still alive (barely) at this point and are hung to die a slow painful death.

I saw a video of this and it was sickening, to say the least.

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Ok damn... That makes me want to cry. In my mind I just saw that happening to my dog. Jesus...

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

In Asian countries, they eat cats and dogs. In some areas, they are thrown, alive, in containers of hot oil that melts their fur, eyes, and outer layers of skin (saves time in the manual skinning process) and are then removed and hung to dry. Most if not all are still alive (barely) at this point and are hung to die a slow painful death.

I saw a video of this and it was sickening, to say the least.

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you saw that video too? i felt real bad for the poor cat they followed through the whole process.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

In Asian countries, they eat cats and dogs. In some areas, they are thrown, alive, in containers of hot oil that melts their fur, eyes, and outer layers of skin (saves time in the manual skinning process) and are then removed and hung to dry. Most if not all are still alive (barely) at this point and are hung to die a slow painful death.

I saw a video of this and it was sickening, to say the least.

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Honestly, how could you guys even watch something like that? I mean, did you seriously watch the whole thing? *shudders* I cant even picture myself being like, "wow, this is gross and inhumane, but Im going to watch the whole thing anyways"

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

I have heard of snakes eating humans but that doesn't mean I am ready to toss a baby in with any just because it happened in the wild.

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Alright I accept that it's an anology, however comparing feeding off babies to feeding off puppies is apples to oranges. In one of the most drastic of senses, this isn't really "A Modest Proposal". Good read btw.

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It really has no bearing whether it was a pet or not.

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We being humans like to attach emotions to our animals, especially our companion animals. We know the limitations of snakes behavior yet people still insist their snake "loves" them. Because your snake "loves" you does it legally deserve better treatment than the disgusting smelly mice that only seem to care about pooping, peeing, musking and biting? No. Yes, dogs and cats have the ability to recognize people, but guess what, my friends pet rabbit does too, yet he's considered by the herping world to be little more than a nice fat meal. The point that needs to be answered is "how is it that the death of one animal is any more/less cruel than an identical death to a different animal?" Let's say for instance the snake owner was an upstanding citizen who took excellent care of his boa and fed his boa alone all by himself, however the meal was a puppy. What exactly would the SPCA/PETA say? Why are you being cruel to that puppy, why don't you go get him a nice rabbit? The only reason that makes sense is due to the norms of society, rather than the actual definition of cruelty. Now once again for the umpteenth time this is not to say I support the feeding of puppies in any way shape or form. God forbid I ever meet someone who does it because I'd be on the 6 o'clock news and then 6 months later I'll take a visit to that electric chair we got down here in texas. Yes, I know I am guilty of upholding that double standard that society set, however I do not feel it's right that the government can decide that one death by identical means can be any more cruel than another.

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First of all they stated that the snake was neglected so more than likely he fed it off as sick humor rather than "I need to feed my wonderful snake." Especially since he had a couple of impressionable kids there to watch.

I think it was completely wrong.

jmo.

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Right, I agree with you there. I hope this slime-ball meets Gus in jail. I hope it's not pretty. Show feedings are cruel enough as it is at times, that throw in two as you say "impressionable kids" performing what is considered socially unacceptable behavior be feeding off a puppy, not to mention the puppy was soaked in oil, that I hope when he finally gets out of jail he has to waddle around and can't sit down for a month.

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Originally Posted by adizziedoll

Honestly, how could you guys even watch something like that? I mean, did you seriously watch the whole thing? *shudders* I cant even picture myself being like, "wow, this is gross and inhumane, but Im going to watch the whole thing anyways"

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wow, way to pass judgement on something you know nothing about. I watched it for a class.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

by leagle standards there is no difference between feeding a dog, rat or a rabbit.

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You sure about that, counselor? There is a big difference between rodents and companion animals. I respect all animals but at the same time I can tell the difference between a companion animal and a prey animal.

That said, this guy didn't feed a puppy to the snake because the snake needed to eat and there weren't any rabbits available. What he did and how he did it was animal cruelty, plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

In Asian countries, they eat cats and dogs. In some areas, they are thrown, alive, in containers of hot oil that melts their fur, eyes, and outer layers of skin (saves time in the manual skinning process) and are then removed and hung to dry. Most if not all are still alive (barely) at this point and are hung to die a slow painful death.

I saw a video of this and it was sickening, to say the least.

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Savages...

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Originally Posted by Gooseman

The point that needs to be answered is "how is it that the death of one animal is any more/less cruel than an identical death to a different animal?"

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I maybe totally off when saying this but..... rats and mice are actually raised as feeder animals. When considering the food chain it seems logical and acceptable to me to feed them to animals that naturally feed on them in the wild.

Puppies however are not raised as feeder animals and are not considered IMO to be lower then snakes in the food chain.

So to me it is more cruel to feed a puppy which would not normal be killed off as food.

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

I maybe totally off when saying this but..... rats and mice are actually raised as feeder animals. When considering the food chain it seems logical and acceptable to me to feed them to animals that naturally feed on them in the wild.

Puppies however are not raised as feeder animals and are not considered IMO to be lower then snakes in the food chain.

So to me it is more cruel to feed a puppy which would not normal be killed off as food.

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You may be totally off, but not in this case! Great post stalker! :rockon:

great post Jamie.


another thing...

depending on the age of those kids I also think it should have also been a case of child abuse to have them sit and witness that.

That was just an ignorant man trying to impress some kids with his "coolness"

I won't ever believe it would be good to feed a snake a dog...but in the wild when it does happen it isn't because they are trying to impress their fellow junglemates.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

I maybe totally off when saying this but..... rats and mice are actually raised as feeder animals. When considering the food chain it seems logical and acceptable to me to feed them to animals that naturally feed on them in the wild.

Puppies however are not raised as feeder animals and are not considered IMO to be lower then snakes in the food chain.

So to me it is more cruel to feed a puppy which would not normal be killed off as food.

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to daaangconcepts again.

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

I maybe totally off when saying this but..... rats and mice are actually raised as feeder animals. When considering the food chain it seems logical and acceptable to me to feed them to animals that naturally feed on them in the wild.

Puppies however are not raised as feeder animals and are not considered IMO to be lower then snakes in the food chain.

So to me it is more cruel to feed a puppy which would not normal be killed off as food.

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you must have missed brads post....

although thats people not snakes.
funny thing is we're really the only society that will draw a line and acknowledge that there's a difference between a livestock animal and a companion animal. to many people animals are animals and that's about it.

not condoning this, just sayin.

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Originally Posted by adizziedoll

Honestly, how could you guys even watch something like that? I mean, did you seriously watch the whole thing? *shudders* I cant even picture myself being like, "wow, this is gross and inhumane, but Im going to watch the whole thing anyways"

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It was on a documentary about animal treatment in the food supply. I'm sorry if my viewing of that for awareness offends you. I guess its it better to turn away and not watch that are unpleasant or disturbing, ignorance is bliss I suppose :rolleyes: That way, we all go about our lives totally unaware of the bad things in life and only pay attention to things like rainbows, chirping birds, and playing with kittens.

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Originally Posted by Gooseman

However, playing devils advocate, how is feeding a puppy any more cruel than feeding a rat or bunny or fetal pigs?

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Its the whol morally wrong thing. Dogs are raised and bred to be a companion and pet. Most people frown upon things like this....people feeding pets to their reptiles. It kills the hobby too, and enforces more restrictions....especially giants :(

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Originally Posted by jglass38

You may be totally off, but not in this case! Great post stalker! :rockon:

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Haha! Yeah, after re-reading my post I had thought about editing that out. :oops:

and thanks kinda sorta... I guess :D

But Gooseman what about the argument that this is not exactly a "proper" meal for a boa. I think if we were talking about an pet whose prey was primarily dogs in the wild, people would have the same feelings towards it as some of those who keep pet mice although we feed them to our snakes -- the attitude of, "This is something I've come to accept, though I may not like it, because I understand that it is natural."

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

I maybe totally off when saying this but..... rats and mice are actually raised as feeder animals. When considering the food chain it seems logical and acceptable to me to feed them to animals that naturally feed on them in the wild.

Puppies however are not raised as feeder animals and are not considered IMO to be lower then snakes in the food chain.

So to me it is more cruel to feed a puppy which would not normal be killed off as food.

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I totally agree on why we as a society have chosen certain animals to known as "feeders", and on the selection of the animals that we have. However, I only see feeding off a puppy as socially unacceptable rather than cruel for the singular reason that the prey items we breed still go through the same pain and suffering during death as the puppy. Now if we managed to breed mice/rats/bunnies without the pain department in their brain I'll reconsider my opinion, but as it stands the death alone is the same and as such the "cruelty" meter is singing the same song.

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Originally Posted by darkangel

But Gooseman what about the argument that this is not exactly a "proper" meal for a boa. I think if we were talking about an pet whose prey was primarily dogs in the wild, people would have the same feelings towards it as some of those who keep pet mice although we feed them to our snakes -- the attitude of, "This is something I've come to accept, though I may not like it, because I understand that it is natural."

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snake are rather opportunistic, and with habitat declining they have become more so, so who's to say in some areas they don't eat a lot of dogs? i don't quite follow your reasoning.

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

you must have missed brads post....

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I am confused. Brad talked about the food chain? :confused:

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Originally Posted by darkangel

But Gooseman what about the argument that this is not exactly a "proper" meal for a boa. I think if we were talking about an pet whose prey was primarily dogs in the wild, people would have the same feelings towards it as some of those who keep pet mice although we feed them to our snakes -- the attitude of, "This is something I've come to accept, though I may not like it, because I understand that it is natural."

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Once again, I am not saying that people should feed their snakes dogs/puppies. I am merely stating that the deaths experienced are the same and as such I cannot rank one to be more cruel than another. Only socially unacceptable. Which it is with me.

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

I am confused. Brad talked about the food chain? :confused:

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in a way i guess
he talked about cats and dogs being raised for food

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

snake are rather opportunistic, and with habitat declining they have become more so, so who's to say in some areas they don't eat a lot of dogs? i don't quite follow your reasoning.

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Most giant Pythons will take down and eat dogs and cats in their native area. Have you seen the post about the Reticulated Python feeding on the Guard Dogs? African Rock Pythons have been known to feed on domesticated animals such as dogs as well....They don't know when they will find food next, so there's little chance at all they're going to pass up a dog or cat that they come across..

I'm not too sure on if the Burmese Python, Indian Python, or Amethystine Python has been known to. However just because they have been known to feed on dogs or cats in the wild, doesn't mean they should be fed these animals in captivity....by far!. Simple fact is they shouldn't! If someone needs to feed a dog/cat to their Boid or other Reptile...they shouldn't be owning these animals....

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

in a way i guess
he talked about cats and dogs being raised for food

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Certainly not in this country.

Once again, savages...

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Originally Posted by qiksilver

snake are rather opportunistic, and with habitat declining they have become more so, so who's to say in some areas they don't eat a lot of dogs? i don't quite follow your reasoning.

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You don't?

I never said a hungry snake would turn down a vulnerable meal in the wild. I said a snake is not going to frequently or eat dogs because this is not their typical prey.

You guys missed it. I was just bringing up the issue that different cultures place different levels of moral treatment on animals. I'm not making any distinction between right and wrong, I am just saying its an "issue" that everyone should think about.

The food chain is not a pretty thing. Humans, while we can be killed other predators, are top predator in the world. Humans do horrible things to the animals we eat. Lions do horrible things to the food they eat. The difference is that humans seem to have a choice in how we treat animals, whereas other predators don't. I feel like having been given the gift of reason and emotion, we should be doing a lot better as a whole in how we treat animals, whether it be for food, companionship, whatever.

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Originally Posted by darkangel

You don't?

I never said a hungry snake would turn down a vulnerable meal in the wild. I said a snake is not going to frequently or eat dogs because this is not their typical prey.

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Not to jump on the other side of this, but how do you know if dogs aren't their typical meal? They come across a variety of both mammals and reptiles they feed on in the wild, even the Green Iguana, in the case of some Boa constrictor subspecies and localities. They could eat a variety of different species...and not just one. Most Boid species are opportunistic.;)

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Originally Posted by darkangel

You don't?

I never said a hungry snake would turn down a vulnerable meal in the wild. I said a snake is not going to frequently or eat dogs because this is not their typical prey.

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not really, because to be quite honest, a 'proper' meal in captivity is what we make it, now don't get me wrong, i would die before i let someone feed a puppy to a snake, but a proper meal is based on the general consensus of keepers and what has worked in the past.
the part i don't get is, im not sure if you really just said that if as a society we felt that feeding puppies was normal that that would be something we would accept, whether we like it or not. most snakes dont' even eat rats and mice in the wild, so again, that's a construct of captivity. so no, i don't follow, because either way that animal will not get it's normal, natural diet.

I guess I make that assumption because I've never heard of/read about boas eating dogs in the wild. But I don't know. I guess unless a bunch of wild boas decided to regurge their meals for everyone to see, there's not a great way to find out.

Can we all agree the guy is a piece of crap?

And qik, I guess I am applying this to our society's construct. In the country I live AND this guy lives, we value and respect companion animals and that's the reason I feel towards this issue as I do.

The logic gets all screwed up when you start making comparisons between captivity and the wild. They are two totally different things and should be treated as such, especially for this discussion. Besides, I can almost guarantee that boas do not come across domesticated dogs out in the jungles of central and south america.

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Originally Posted by darkangel

Can we all agree the guy is a piece of crap?

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I believe that is a given. It's mostly an argument about whether or not it's any more a case of animal cruelty than any other feeding.

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Originally Posted by AndrewH

Not to jump on the other side of this, but how do you know if dogs aren't their typical meal? They come across a variety of both mammals and reptiles they feed on in the wild, even the Green Iguana, in the case of some Boa constrictor subspecies and localities ;)

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I think this is going off track.

First of all we aren't talking about an animal in the wild and nobody here has disputed that they think it is cruel "in the wild" however....In these here United States they don't "normally" eat wild dogs.

And furthermore...this was not a wild dog that even had a chance in hell of getting away from the snake it was a helpless puppy that had a stupid owner!

just sayin'

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Originally Posted by AndrewH

Most giant Pythons will take down and eat dogs and cats in their native area. Have you seen the post about the Reticulated Python feeding on the Guard Dogs? African Rock Pythons have been known to feed on domesticated animals such as dogs as well....They don't know when they will find food next, so there's little chance at all they're going to pass up a dog or cat that they come across..

I'm not too sure on if the Burmese Python, Indian Python, or Amethystine Python has been known to. However just because they have been known to feed on dogs or cats in the wild, doesn't mean they should be fed these animals in captivity....by far!. Simple fact is they shouldn't! If someone needs to feed a dog/cat to their Boid or other Reptile...they shouldn't be owning these animals....

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hey woah wait! i wasn't saying toss them a puppy whenever they're hungry. i was just saying who are we to think we know what an animal in the wild, with human encroachment and all sorts of new naive prey considers 'natural'.