michael moore... sicko

anyone seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFoq_5RbC4&feature=dir

if you have a story... perhaps you'll want to send it in. lily having to move out of her home because of health care costs made me think to post this.

The #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US since 1985 is Medical bills. I personally spent 5 hours in an ER in Milwaukee when I started vomiting blood. They drew blood 8 times did test after test, MRI's and so on. When it was done you know what they told me..We couldn't find a reason if it happens again come back :eek:

Then the bill, Blue Cross Blue Shield only paid 15% :mad: cause I was out of town. I called and was like what am I supposed to do fly back. I paid 4500.00 after insurance to the hospital, then got a bill for 1300.00 thats the doctors bill, then one for 500, thats for the blood work, then one for 1200 for the MRI. All in all I spent right at if not over 10,000.00 for them to take 5 hours of my life tell me they couldn't find anything.

Wow the advances in modern medicine really astounds me. We can put me on the moon, see billions of years in to space, do whole face transplants. But a healthy 25 year old man come is puking blood and damn it if that don't stump em.

Never again will I go back to a hospital

Fortunately, I'm still covered under my parents' health care--but that won't be the case for long. I'm worried about health insurance, the expense and that I won't be able to afford good coverage. I have Ulcerative Colitis, need to have colonoscopies every two years, visit a specialist at least twice a year and I found out when I re-filled my medications that if I had to pay cash, I would be spending a little over $900 a month! The one crucial medication of the two costs about $550 alone... it's a scary idea.

The state of MA now has a "mandatory" health care law that takes effect as of July 2008, I believe. By that time, everyone in MA must have health insurance or they will recieve a fine from the state--the state is offering its own health insurance for people. It's supposed to be affordable, but when I talked to my mom about it, she said that she and my dad looked into switching to the state plan and it would cost just as much to cover themselves, myself and my siblings as it costs them now with a private provider...

Massachusetts offers Mass Health--a free prescription/health care service to people falling within a certain (very low) income bracket--but most of those people need to have children to qualify.

Bleh...

Blue Cross and Blue sheild is horrible for doing that! They did that to us too, but we were in town. I had my mom read your post, and she agreed. We should form a riot!:sabduel: :taz:

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Blue Cross and Blue sheild is horrible for doing that! They did that to us too, but we were in town. I had my mom read your post, and she agreed. We should form a riot!:sabduel: :taz:

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You also have to watch how the hospital codes it for insurance claims. If they bill for your lab work before your perlim. exam then the insurance company looks at it as your lab work was an "elective" procedure and want cover the normal 80% if they cover it at all.

I once had a sore and swollen lower jaw so I went to the ER. After several hours I was told I had a stone in my salivary gland. I got a prescription to suck on lemons until it passed, and 3 large hospital and doctor bills.

When I broke my wrist I was charged like $600 to get my cast put on, and art stores sell the same casting wrap for $4.

Freaky, did you ever find out the cause of your problem? I threw up some blood a few months ago, but I didn't go to the ER. I stopped drinking whiskey for a few days and it hasn't happened since. Was it anything serious? I wonder if I should make myself puke to see if it's bloody again.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I once had a sore and swollen lower jaw so I went to the ER. After several hours I was told I had a stone in my salivary gland. I got a prescription to suck on lemons until it passed, and 3 large hospital and doctor bills.

When I broke my wrist I was charged like $600 to get my cast put on, and art stores sell the same casting wrap for $4.

Freaky, did you ever find out the cause of your problem? I threw up some blood a few months ago, but I didn't go to the ER. I stopped drinking whiskey for a few days and it hasn't happened since. Was it anything serious? I wonder if I should make myself puke to see if it's bloody again.

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Well to my dismay I did. See I have family in New Orleans that I vist like every three weeks well seems after two bowls of Crawfish e'tufe and a couple of Abita Turbo dogs I started it again.

I have since been told I have a bleeding ulcer that is aggravated by spicy food. :mad: so I have to lay off the hot stuff and stick to gumbo and limit my adult beverage intake.

Personally I would not do anything to help this borderline retarded jack you know what. After he made his movie about 9/11 being a government conspiracy I lost all respect for the man (i didnt know who he was before).

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Well to my dismay I did. See I have family in New Orleans that I vist like every three weeks well seems after two bowls of Crawfish e'tufe and a couple of Abita Turbo dogs I started it again.

I have since been told I have a bleeding ulcer that is aggravated by spicy food. :mad: so I have to lay off the hot stuff and stick to gumbo and limit my adult beverage intake.

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sucks for you. I am eating a nice big bowl of red beans and rice smothered in tony C's

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

sucks for you. I am eating a nice big bowl of red beans and rice smothered in tony C's

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Hey is Franky and Johnnies still standing on Tchoupitoulas???

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Hey is Franky and Johnnies still standing on Tchoupitoulas???

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not sure, i will get back to you. I try to keep out of the city and play in Metairie and River Ridge:)

Why don't you all move to Canada. :salute:
I read this post and almost cried for you all!
If I broke a bone, it would be free to repair. Except probably my skull. That might need surgery. But most things are free i believe, except staying over night, major surgery, and I think you have to pay to have a baby and to die. (which is STUPID... life and death should be free, I don't have much of a choice)
The bad part is when you go to the Emergency Room you have to sit for half the day or even longuer depending on your problem. But i heard in Alberta you can pay for medical now (like the USA) and you can get service a whole lot faster. Don't know for sure!

Now I think Blue Cross is like 25-30 bucks a month or more depending on your age and smoking status. Not a bad deal I guess.
And most employers have benefits now, so they cover most medical supplies and medications, so you don't need blue cross

I'd like to get my tonsils out soon and I'm pretty sure my work benefits will cover the cost of that... in the US you have to pay a grand eh? I snor loud! REAL REAL LOUD! Like I'm talking louder then a stereo going pretty loud. LOUD! :sleepy:

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Originally Posted by Jonny2184

Why don't you all move to Canada. :salute:
I read this post and almost cried for you all!
If I broke a bone, it would be free to repair. Except probably my skull. That might need surgery. But most things are free i believe, except staying over night, major surgery, and I think you have to pay to have a baby and to die. (which is STUPID... life and death should be free, I don't have much of a choice)
The bad part is when you go to the Emergency Room you have to sit for half the day or even longuer depending on your problem. But i heard in Alberta you can pay for medical now (like the USA) and you can get service a whole lot faster. Don't know for sure!

Now I think Blue Cross is like 25-30 bucks a month or more depending on your age and smoking status. Not a bad deal I guess.
And most employers have benefits now, so they cover most medical supplies and medications, so you don't need blue cross

I'd like to get my tonsils out soon and I'm pretty sure my work benefits will cover the cost of that... in the US you have to pay a grand eh? I snor loud! REAL REAL LOUD! Like I'm talking louder then a stereo going pretty loud. LOUD! :sleepy:

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That's it. I'm moving to Canada eh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonny2184

Why don't you all move to Canada. :salute:
I read this post and almost cried for you all!
If I broke a bone, it would be free to repair. Except probably my skull. That might need surgery. But most things are free i believe, except staying over night, major surgery, and I think you have to pay to have a baby and to die. (which is STUPID... life and death should be free, I don't have much of a choice)
The bad part is when you go to the Emergency Room you have to sit for half the day or even longuer depending on your problem. But i heard in Alberta you can pay for medical now (like the USA) and you can get service a whole lot faster. Don't know for sure!

Now I think Blue Cross is like 25-30 bucks a month or more depending on your age and smoking status. Not a bad deal I guess.
And most employers have benefits now, so they cover most medical supplies and medications, so you don't need blue cross

I'd like to get my tonsils out soon and I'm pretty sure my work benefits will cover the cost of that... in the US you have to pay a grand eh? I snor loud! REAL REAL LOUD! Like I'm talking louder then a stereo going pretty loud. LOUD! :sleepy:

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You also have to be a citizen for 1 calender year before you can apply for socolized med. and most places there want take your payment. so with-in your first year there if you get sick your screwed. :D

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Originally Posted by darkangel

That's it. I'm moving to Canada eh.

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Cheap drugs... can't beat that. Even if your on a pogey you can still get ok heath care. Not a bad deal...

Doesn't the state of California have some kinda medicare program???
I think Arnold was here in Ottawa and did some thing with Stevie Harper.
Who knows...

*off the topic* I heard Arnold S. smoked a cuban in Ottawa On and is now going to be charged because Americans aren't allowed to smoke cuban cigars?? Ture or False??? I don't believe it!

This is going to be a good one im my book. I happen to like his moveis. I know that not everything is true but he dose have some good points and I would really like to see this one. I to have major health problems and even being a military spouse I'm going to have to pay $12,000 out of pocket to get my mouth fixed. I weigh in right now at 89.6 lbs at 5 foot 3 inches because I cant chew my food. I only have a few teeth that are not infected. I'm constenaly haveing to get on different antibiotics each moth to control the infection. I already had blood posioning 3 times from this.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

You also have to be a citizen for 1 calender year before you can apply for socolized med. and most places there want take your payment. so with-in your first year there if you get sick your screwed. :D

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Dont get sick! :rockon: ;)

I'm not sure what kills me more -- the cost of my monthly insurance or paying cash for visits. If I had something life threatening, I know it would pay off in the long run... but... My birth control alone costs me 55 dollars a month, insurance won't cover a penny of it. In fact I think the majority of the meds I have taken in the last five years, my "rx plan" has only covered a miniscule amount of -- we're talking 5, 10 dollars. And yet even if it did, my insurance drains the life out of my paycheck. One year waiting period or not, you guys have it made up there. :D

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Originally Posted by darkangel

I'm not sure what kills me more -- the cost of my monthly insurance or paying cash for visits. If I had something life threatening, I know it would pay off in the long run... but... My birth control alone costs me 55 dollars a month, insurance won't cover a penny of it. In fact I think the majority of the meds I have taken in the last five years, my "rx plan" has only covered a miniscule amount of -- we're talking 5, 10 dollars. And yet even if it did, my insurance drains the life out of my paycheck. One year waiting period or not, you guys have it made up there. :D

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Cheers!
I just asked my buddy, cause I dont know much about birth control prices and he says his girlfriend pays 5 bucks for it. Its even cheaper then buying condoms. WILD!
Some day I think the US will do something like Canada does. Id like to see that. I have family in the US and my old grandma is there. Expensive stuff being old!

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Originally Posted by Jonny2184

Cheers!
I just asked my buddy, cause I dont know much about birth control prices and he says his girlfriend pays 5 bucks for it. Its even cheaper then buying condoms. WILD!
Some day I think the US will do something like Canada does. Id like to see that. I have family in the US and my old grandma is there. Expensive stuff being old!

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We already do do a search on welfare :mad: or governmental subsidized housing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

You also have to be a citizen for 1 calender year before you can apply for socolized med. and most places there want take your payment. so with-in your first year there if you get sick your screwed. :D

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Not to mention that it's not "free" at all. Where does the gov't get the money for all this "free" health care, anyway? :lmao:

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Originally Posted by darkangel

I'm not sure what kills me more -- the cost of my monthly insurance or paying cash for visits. If I had something life threatening, I know it would pay off in the long run... but... My birth control alone costs me 55 dollars a month, insurance won't cover a penny of it. In fact I think the majority of the meds I have taken in the last five years, my "rx plan" has only covered a miniscule amount of -- we're talking 5, 10 dollars. And yet even if it did, my insurance drains the life out of my paycheck. One year waiting period or not, you guys have it made up there. :D

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Join Planned Parenthood and start helping us lobby to get BC covered by insurance.

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Originally Posted by Jonny2184

Some day I think the US will do something like Canada does. Id like to see that. I have family in the US and my old grandma is there. Expensive stuff being old!

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Yeah, that would be great! I mean, look at what the US gov't has done with our educational system! Man, I'd love to have my health care in their capable hands as well...
/sarcasm

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Not to mention that it's not "free" at all. Where does the gov't get the money for all this "free" health care, anyway? :lmao:

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If I'm not mistaken Canada doen't have sales tax or income taxs and all that the just have a flat tax that is figured based on you income and thats all you pay in taxes. I could be wrong but I think thats how it works.

They do have income tax, and people who make more than $60k per year pay the higher amounts. It's a Robin Hood system, imo.

I hate jumping into pot stirring threads and do my best to just avoid them most of the time, and while I agree our health care system needs some major work. Good old mr moore is a socialist fat *** lying peace of crap. And no offense to our neighbors to the north, but they ALL pay over 50% income tax for their "free health care". Also if you look at the actual studies of canadian care 3 fold the number of people die up there on a waiting list for surgery than do people down here.

Individual circumstances sometimes push our believes one way or the other but please don't go out and watch a movie by a proven liar that preaches himself as a documentary but has to fudge and edit/pull individual lines from from greater texts to try and prove misguided ideologies....

Let good old mr moore move to his beloved cuba or Venezuela and see how long he last degrading the presidents or polices of those nations and once locked up for it I'm sure he'll come around to realizing how good he has it here. In theory or on paper Socialism is great, everyone is equal, life is great, its a great big liberal love feast however in reality, we are not all equal, we all have individual talents that propel some to great levels. Some people deserve to be rich and start/run great companies, employ millions of people and other get to be great artists, maybe making squat but get to live wonderful fulfilling lives and are not required to work in coal mine or where ever because of being from a certain area. Our county has flaws but is truly the greatest, FREEst place on earth and I think that we all forget that all to often.

Sorry for the rant, first real online rant I've ever had, kinda feels good...

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Yeah, that would be great! I mean, look at what the US gov't has done with our educational system! Man, I'd love to have my health care in their capable hands as well...
/sarcasm

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Yea no kidding I'd rather pay though the butt and risk getting great care than not pay and get what the govenment gives me..

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

They do have income tax, and people who make more than $60k per year pay the higher amounts. It's a Robin Hood system, imo.

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sounds allot like this thing this guy tried doing years ago. Where everybody works so that everybody can have the same of everything (health care/food/dental) and the government runs it all tells you when you can go to the doctor, what the employers can pay.

Sound familure anyone ????

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

I hate jumping into pot stirring threads and do my best to just avoid them most of the time, and while I agree our health care system needs some major work. Good old mr moore is a socialist fat *** lying peace of crap. And no offense to our neighbors to the north, but they ALL pay over 50% income tax for their "free health care". Also if you look at the actual studies of canadian care 3 fold the number of people die up there on a waiting list for surgery than do people down here.

Individual circumstances sometimes push our believes one way or the other but please don't go out and watch a movie by a proven liar that preaches himself as a documentary but has to fudge and edit/pull individual lines from from greater texts to try and prove misguided ideologies....

Let good old mr moore move to his beloved cuba or Venezuela and see how long he last degrading the presidents or polices of those nations and once locked up for it I'm sure he'll come around to realizing how good he has it here. In theory or on paper Socialism is great, everyone is equal, life is great, its a great big liberal love feast however in reality, we are not all equal, we all have individual talents that propel some to great levels. Some people deserve to be rich and start/run great companies, employ millions of people and other get to be great artists, maybe making squat but get to live wonderful fulfilling lives and are not required to work in coal mine or where ever because of being from a certain area. Our county has flaws but is truly the greatest, FREEst place on earth and I think that we all forget that all to often.

Sorry for the rant, first real online rant I've ever had, kinda feels good...

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A friggin-men!

Health care in the USA needs more than a little work but the price of health care is not changing anytime soon until we can get the gov't to get a grip on the insurance industry.

As for our neighbors to the north and their health care, yes, they are taxed unreal and there system leaves a lot to be desired other than cheap scripts.

It's sad that the elderly and most of middle working class Americans are screwed when it comes to health care. Here in my area we had a 12yo child die from a tooth infection because he couldn't afford a dentist and the medicad dentists are so filled up and will only see a limited number of patients.
It's a crime when a child dies from a tooth because on insurance issues.

I have been blessed the last 4 years. The company I work for pays 100% of my health coverage and my families. It is good coverage. I had to go to the hospital for a 24 hr stay because they thought I was having a heart attack and I had all kind of tests etc and the cost was over 5 grand and all I had to pay was 75.00 which was my co-pay for the emergency room.

My sister has devoted her life to community health care. It's her area of expertise. She has a Phd in nursing/community health. She currently teaches grad students @ Rutgers U. She has spent much time on Capitol Hill trying to get some of those nimrods to understand. So you can imagine it is something that is discussed in our family gatherings to no end.

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

Sorry for the rant, first real online rant I've ever had, kinda feels good...

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I thought it was quite good, for a first!

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Originally Posted by AzureN1ght

I have Ulcerative Colitis, need to have colonoscopies every two years

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Ouch. That's NASTY! I wish you the best in getting affordable insurance. My family has that "curse" as I call it. Ugh, it sucks!

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

I thought it was quite good, for a first!

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I second...

So passed...A Good first rant!! :rockon:

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

I thought it was quite good, for a first!

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Yeah count me in on that also :)

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Originally Posted by neilgolli

And no offense to our neighbors to the north, but they ALL pay over 50% income tax for their "free health care".

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I think u exaggerated a little bit?!?
50% income tax... All the Canadians would move south if that happened.
My pops just told me 20% but it does go up as you enter a different pay bracket. You would have to be making more then five doctors combined to pay 50%. I think it's unheard of actually. I'd guess the highest tax backet is 35% or 40% income. Not sure.

In my province I pay 14% sales tax which is very high. It used to be 15%. I think Alberta is the lowest because of all the oil.

20% income tax for free health care... count me in!

What is US tax like??

I pay about 10% income tax and 8% sales tax, when it's all figured up. I get to earn interest on my own money, as well as invest it however I choose.

Hi,


We pay a heck of a lot of tax (and I mean a lot) over here too but everything is free in the health system apart from the drugs you recieve outside hospitals ( and in Wales even those are free).

I think it runs around $14 per item or just under but you can pay a set amount per month if you pay in advance that brings it down if you have a lot of multiple prescriptions. And if you are on welfare or low income those charges are usually waived (always on welfare - by need otherwise).

On the socialist side we seem to be a lot more relaxed about that over here - Tony Blair for example is the head of a supposedly socialist party and government. Though from his policies it might be hard to tell.:D


dr del

I agree that Moore is a major d-bag, and his last couple documentaries were a load of hooey, but I think this film does raise major issues with our healthcare system, no matter what your feelings about the way other countries' systems are handled. I've experienced it first-hand working in a hospital. It's ugly.

in canada we pay income tax... obviously... it's based on your income. 20% is the lowest you pay and 50% is the highest. we were paying 50% for years... as my hubby was bringing home 80,000+ a year. now we are a 'company' so we pay 12% or something like that... much lower.

anyways... as for health care. as a family we pay almost $120 a month for our 'govt medical'. we don't have any extended medical (as we are self employed) so all our dentist visits come out of pocket as do any medications/glasses/eye exams/chiropractor. we can write them off in our taxes but you have to pay well over $2,000 in a year to claim any of it.

as for other taxes... we have (pay at the store) taxes of GST and PST which combined are 13% i believe here in british columbia.

everyone pays in every country... no health care is perfect IMO but i think it completely sucks what happens to people in the USA (the home of the free?) where people can't afford to take their kids to see a doctor because of the cost. where people loose their homes because of medical bills. that is soooooo wrong and i hope your gov't changes that for you.

and... i like michael moore. he creates movies which get people talking and IMO that's the best kinda movie made! doesn't matter if they agree or disagree... it causes people to stop living in their little bubbles and think.

and thinking is goooooooooooooooooooood!

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

and... i like michael moore. he creates movies which get people talking and IMO that's the best kinda movie made! doesn't matter if they agree or disagree... it causes people to stop living in their little bubbles and think.

and thinking is goooooooooooooooooooood!

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I agree, except I, so far, haven't liked the way Moore presents himself and the information he gives. I do really enjoy most of the videos by Alex Jones. He means as well, if not better than Moore, and he has more sand than most in his league. As with Michael Moore, you can't take every word he says for absolute and objective fact, but he really tries. Has anyone else seen any of his documentaries? I have most of them, and everyone I've let watch them, from Hardcore liberal to hardcore Republican Bush patriot has loved them and asked for copies to give to friends. My dad's friend even had a party just so all her friends would see the video I let her borrow. If anyone is interested I'd be happy to lend them out.

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Originally Posted by AzureN1ght

I have Ulcerative Colitis, need to have colonoscopies every two years, visit a specialist at least twice a year and I found out when I re-filled my medications that if I had to pay cash, I would be spending a little over $900 a month! The one crucial medication of the two costs about $550 alone... it's a scary idea. Bleh...

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No way! My husband has Crohn's disease...I know what you are going through.

since both he and I are self employed, we need to get individual health insurance. Because of our pre-existing conditions no insurance company will take us...we actually got 'Lifetime Denial' letters from every carrier in our state!
Thank goodness we live in a state where they have a state insurance pool for people like us who have been denied everywhere else. We pay a lot, and it doesn't cover much, but if something really big happens we won't lose our home and life savings. Luckily both times my husband had to have major surgery for his Crohn's I was at the time working for companies who had group coverage that was decent. For awhile we were racking up $30,000 to $60,000 A YEAR in medical bills. It will happen again too, that's the nature of the disease unfortunately.

I find it interesting that some selected to attack the source, as opposed to the idea.

First, let's iron out a few misconceptions. Canada is frequently the dead horse beaten for income taxes, however, it's often out of misinformation. Canada's federal taxation is actually lower than the United States for higher tax brackets. For example, the $74,000 tax bracket is 26% income tax in Canada, and 28% in the US.

The individual provinces also charge taxes, like most US states, however they do tax at a higher rate.

So, for example. Someone making $150,000 in Canada will pay $20,609.15 in federal taxes. Of course, I'm not using any type of deductions here, for reasons that it would complicate matters since they are individualized. By comparison, a (single) person in the US earning $150,000 per year, with no deductions is going to pay $34,613.

In the highest taxed province (Newfoundland) the person is also going to pay an additional $22,931.28 in provincial taxes, taking their grand total to $43,540. The highest taxed state in the US is Iowa at 8.9% on ALL income if you make over $55,000. So the final totals?

A single individual making $150,000 per year in Iowa with no deductions: $48,113.
A single individual making $150,000 per year in Newfoundland with no deductions: $43,540.

That's a difference of $4,573 for those that don't like to do math. Since there is a 9% difference between sales tax's between Iowa and Newfoundland, let's play with it a little. Let's say the earner described above pays approximately $50,000 per year in (sales) taxable items. In Iowa, they are going to pay an approximate sales tax of $2500 per year. In Newfoundland, the tax rate is going to be $7,000. Keeping in mind of course, Newfoundland uses an inclusive sales tax... you pay the ticket price, not the ticket price + 14% or whatever.

So in the end, we are looking at the individual in Canada paying approximately $427 more in taxes each year than the person in Iowa. Which, works out to approximately $35/month... and to put it bluntly, that's a HELL of a lot less than I pay in insurance premiums.

Sorry to derail... just felt it was necessary to clear up some misconceptions.

Justin, I'm not positive on how the taxes work in Canada, but in the US the federal income tax rate would only apply to a certain amount of your income.
For instance, in my tax bracket, I only pay taxes on income above $61,000. So even though my tax rate is 25%, it actually evens out to 10% of my total income. That's before we figure in deductions, so it actually comes out to less.

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Justin, I'm not positive on how the taxes work in Canada, but in the US the federal income tax rate would only apply to a certain amount of your income.
For instance, in my tax bracket, I only pay taxes on income above $61,000. So even though my tax rate is 25%, it actually evens out to 10% of my total income. That's before we figure in deductions, so it actually comes out to less.

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I'm in the US as well, just a hop skip and a jump from Alberta, Canada :). And yes, the numbers I gave use tiered taxes in both cases, as both Canada and the US tier their taxes. The REAL difference is that Canada only has 4 tiers from 15.5% to 29%. The US has 6 from 10% to 35%.

The difference is actually in the smaller amounts between the tier changes. For example, a person in the US is going to pay 25% on any amount between $30,000 and $37,000. Meanwhile, a person in Canada is only going to pay 15.5% up TO the $37,000 cap.

So the $34,613 I quoted for a person in the US, actually only accounts for 23% of their income, even though they would be in the 28% tax bracket.

That being said, it was actually my tax calculations on the Canadian side that were wrong. I missed an entire tax bracket on that side :oops:.

So, the actual difference is more substantial. $8,442 or approximately $700/month. I'll update the numbers in a moment in the original thread... at the end of the day, I'm self-employed and given the differences, it would still be approximately the same for me in either country, since I have to pay all medical premiums out of pocket.

Okay, it's been too long so I can't edit my other post, here's the actual numbers, double-checked this time :P:

US Citizen Total Tax Liability: $48,113
Canadian Citizen Total Tax Liability: $56,555

So, numbers aside, why is it that the US medical system costs nearly twice as much as Canada's, and every other industrialized nation. That's really what bugs me... we're more expensive than any other modern country (I can't remember the numbers, but the average outside of US is $2500 per person per year, while the US is closer to $4500 per person per year).

Something needs to change clearly... I'm just not smart enough to know what.

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

So, numbers aside, why is it that the US medical system costs nearly twice as much as Canada's, and every other industrialized nation. That's really what bugs me... we're more expensive than any other modern country (I can't remember the numbers, but the average outside of US is $2500 per person per year, while the US is closer to $4500 per person per year).

Something needs to change clearly... I'm just not smart enough to know what.

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been led to understand that the cost of US Health Care is a trickle-down effect from how much insurance hospitals and doctors have to carry in order to practice. It's VERY expensive for a doctor to be insured, so to make up that amount, a visit costs an arm and a leg. To prevent paying an arm and a leg, Citizens have health insurance to lessen the costs in case of emergency/hospital stays/expensive monthly medications, etc.

If you go to some modern health care countries--with more socialized systems, if you go see a doctor and an accident happens, that's bad luck. You move on. If you go see a doctor in the US and an accident happens, the patient sues--which goes back to the insurance being expensive for doctors issue...

That's how I've understood it--so I guess the change needs to start with the insurance companies and maybe with the mindset of the American people?

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Originally Posted by AzureN1ght

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been led to understand that the cost of US Health Care is a trickle-down effect from how much insurance hospitals and doctors have to carry in order to practice. It's VERY expensive for a doctor to be insured, so to make up that amount, a visit costs an arm and a leg. To prevent paying an arm and a leg, Citizens have health insurance to lessen the costs in case of emergency/hospital stays/expensive monthly medications, etc.

If you go to some modern health care countries--with more socialized systems, if you go see a doctor and an accident happens, that's bad luck. You move on. If you go see a doctor in the US and an accident happens, the patient sues--which goes back to the insurance being expensive for doctors issue...

That's how I've understood it--so I guess the change needs to start with the insurance companies and maybe with the mindset of the American people?

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I certainly thinks that is part of it.. But let's assume, for a moment, that the US health care cost per person is only $1000 more than Canada or France. If we assume torts are the primary cause of that, we are talking about a overall difference of $301,139,947,000. I have a little trouble believing that torts account for $300 billion dollars every year.

A crux of the problem IMHO, is that every different middle man in the medical industry is looking to make a buck. So they all rise together and say "Hey, it's these people suing us that's making insurance rates so high." So, we go on a tort reform rampage, and rates still rise faster than any other industrialized nation on Earth.

I think the oil industry is taking notes from the medical industry. Both are starting to ask the question, "Just how much can we screw these people for, before they start changing their habits?"

There are a lot of agenda's in every industry. Most of them have deep pockets, just as most politicians have open hands. So, the question I ask, is what's it going to take for habit's to change? Whether those habit's mean refusing to become medical consumers. Or driving cars with better gas mileage. Or voting for an X when we usually vote for Y.

The bottom line is, only we as voters can effect change. And the line below the bottom line is... we don't want to.:(

I've read that malpractice suits have very little impact on the overall cost of health care. I'm all for caps on them, either way.

I also read that doctor fees have more to do with costs than anything else. I don't know how true that is, but what I read is that doctors in America make about 5 times what doctors in Canada make. It's also causing a huge brain drain in Canada from what I understand.

The cost of a doctors insurance to practice is probably the same as it is on their 3500sqr foot home a year. Do the math if a doctor sees 20 people a day working 4 days a week and only takes 2 weeks vacation. Thats 4000 people a year the average a harvard study showed that "Today's health insurance policies -- with high deductibles, co-pays, and many exclusions -- offer little protection during a serious illness. Uncovered medical bills averaged $13,460 for those with private insurance at the start of their illness."
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...tcy_study.html
Lets say that insurance covered 50% of that average. So the total average medical bill before insurance is 26000.

Now lets say you take the 4000 people a year that get seen by that one doctor you take 26000 X 4000 = thats 10,400,00.00 a year to the hospitals per doctor on average. Now say the doctor takes home 2% a year of thats 208,000 a year or around 20 grand a month.

Doctors can afford to pay the insurance cost go up cause it not like apple juice when you need medical care you either pay it or die. :D

Sounds like a win win for the doctors and hospital's.

WOMAN DIES IN E.R.

The hospital staff watched her die in the waiting room. Two people called 911 and were told to stop calling it was for emergency's only!!! She was vomiting blood and screaming in pain. She died 45 minutes later in the waiting room from a perforated bowel.

http://www.foxnews.com/bigstory/index.html

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

WOMAN DIES IN E.R.

The hospital staff watched her die in the waiting room. Two people called 911 and were told to stop calling it was for emergency's only!!! She was vomiting blood and screaming in pain. She died 45 minutes later in the waiting room from a perforated bowel.

http://www.foxnews.com/bigstory/index.html

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Police even tried arresting her for violating parole...how messed up can a hospital be? from my understanding they have been warned before about getting their act together or being shut down, that is gonna be one heck of a law suit.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/heal...86/detail.html

Woman dies in ER.


Don't give me negative rep points for this.

I am sorry, but I worked at Walter Reade Hospital (when it was good:1982-4), and I had my share of incidents that looked bad but were really not so bad.

Look at the picture of the person in the article, read the descriptions of the phone calls.

DON'T JUDGE ME, BUT PREJUDICE USUALLY FOLLOWS IN THE WAKE OF REALITY. Stereotypes exist because they reflect a true condition.

Here is an obese woman with an obnoxious family. She is in the waiting room of one of the worst hospitals in LA. Vomiting blood is bad, but mostly is not life threatning. Usually the result of a food allergy or ulcer. Had she been bleeding from the rectum then it would have been a different matter. Also writhing on the floor is often used by low class people to draw attention to themselves.

Many ERs are now used to it and put those people on the bottom of the list. It is a matter of triage. If the ER staff can show that they did a preliminary evaluation and that they had other patients with more sever cases before this one then the hospital is usually safe from a major lawsuit. That is just the way it is.

I speak from experience. It is not a good experience and I am generally a giving person, but I have seen a LOT of abuse of ER staff from obnoxious patrons.