Opinions on housing a pair of large pythons in a VERY large cage?

I've been considering purchasing a male retic or burm for awhile now and have a question about housing. If I do purchase a large python it won't be for at least a year or two as I have a few boas and more cages I need to purchase for my breeding project, but I'm somewhat neurotic about planning ahead so here I am. Anyways, if I decide to get a burm or retic I will be building a very large, built-in, display enclosure for him. The cage would be roughly 12' wide, 4' deep and 8' tall. I'm just designing things in my head right now, but it would have very large branches for climbing, some rocks, plants, and maybe even a small pond. Now heres my question. Obviously I would not have room for multiple cages of this size so if I got my male and later on down the road got the urge to get him a girlfriend would it be alright to house them together? I know it is generally frowned upon to house more than one snake in a single enclosure, but I'm wondering if it would be ok in a situation like this where they would have a significant amount of space to live in.

Anyone have an opinion on this? More than likely I would be perfectly content with a single male since it will be purchased purely as a pet, but I'm still kinda curious.

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Originally Posted by AK4900PA

I've been considering purchasing a male retic or burm for awhile now and have a question about housing. If I do purchase a large python it won't be for at least a year or two as I have a few boas and more cages I need to purchase for my breeding project, but I'm somewhat neurotic about planning ahead so here I am. Anyways, if I decide to get a burm or retic I will be building a very large, built-in, display enclosure for him. The cage would be roughly 12' wide, 4' deep and 8' tall. I'm just designing things in my head right now, but it would have very large branches for climbing, some rocks, plants, and maybe even a small pond. Now heres my question. Obviously I would not have room for multiple cages of this size so if I got my male and later on down the road got the urge to get him a girlfriend would it be alright to house them together? I know it is generally frowned upon to house more than one snake in a single enclosure, but I'm wondering if it would be ok in a situation like this where they would have a significant amount of space to live in.

Anyone have an opinion on this? More than likely I would be perfectly content with a single male since it will be purchased purely as a pet, but I'm still kinda curious.

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Well the answer here is very easy.I would not recommend housing 2 large snakes together unless it was a VERY large enclosure(zoo type size) and you have someone with you all the time.I say this because whenever you open that enclosure you have 2 accidents waiting to happen not the 1.This accident is also know as 2 large hungry will grab you on your first mistake(smelling like food) and thats all she wrote snakes.Why take the chances or have them suffer if you are happy with just one?

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Why take the chances or have them suffer if you are happy with just one?

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I haven't purchased one yet, but I'm sure I probably will be more than content with a single python of that size. I was just somewhat curious about this so I figured I would throw the question out there.

Right now I'm concentrating on building up some BCI breeding stock so any retic or burm purchase won't be for at least a year or two anyway. If/when I get one it will definitely be a male. Just haven't decided between an albino burm or tiger retic.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I would not recommend housing 2 large snakes together unless it was a VERY large enclosure(zoo type size) and you have someone with you all the time.

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Most people would consider 12'x4'x8' to be a pretty big enclosure, but it's definitely not zoo sized. I'd basically have to convert my entire basement for something like that. Most of my friends think I'm enough of an idiot for converting a single bedroom into a snake room.

I suppose if I did end up deciding to get a female I could always put her in the large enclosure, get an AP or boaphile cage for the male and just put him in the large one with her during breeding season, but to be honest I really don't have any interest in breeding pythons of that size. The only reason I would consider a second burm or retic is simply to have a different morph (i love them all!). :)

That's a pretty big enclosure. Why not make it smaller and allow yourself room to add another enclosure later if needed. I wouldn't want to put two snakes together, much less go into that cage with two hungry giants as Joe mentioned.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

That's a pretty big enclosure. Why not make it smaller and allow yourself room to add another enclosure later if needed. I wouldn't want to put two snakes together, much less go into that cage with two hungry giants as Joe mentioned.

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Handn't even really thought of this before, but I could always design the enclosure with the option to divide it. 6'x4'x8' should still be more than sufficient for an adult retic or burm.

Like I said though, one will most likely be plenty. Just throwing ideas around in my head at this point. With the retics for some reason I love tigers and albinos, but I don't like tiger albinos. If I go with a tiger retic I would get one that is het. for albino just incase I decided to get an albino down the road. I am rediculously anal about planning ahead. Especially considering none of this will happen until I get everything started with my boa project.

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Originally Posted by AK4900PA

Handn't even really thought of this before, but I could always design the enclosure with the option to divide it. 6'x4'x8' should still be more than sufficient for an adult retic or burm.

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Having a divider would work out in two ways.

First, it can seperate you from your python, much like a lion enclosure at the zoo. This will come in handy because while cleaning one side of the cage, the python can stay on the other, and vice versa. Therefore, you theoretically never make physical contact with the snake and so no mistakes can occur. This is demonstrated at zoos in which zookeepers must place food on one side of the enclosure, while the big cats are kept on the other, after which the keepers exit that side and allow the big cats to enter. No contact.

Second, the other half will allow you to house the second python of your choice, once you have decided on it. Worst case, the divider can somehow be removed, especially if you design it that way ahead of time, although it may be a permanent fix for the reason I stated above about cleaning.

The problem with a cage that size is that it is very hard to maintain heat and humidity.

If you are just wanting to get one, why not start with a male. A male of either species can reach 10 -14 feet with a respectable feeding schedule.

have fun cleaning a 12x4x8 cage...

i would invest in some AP cages, it might end up being cheaper then building, and it will be a lot easier to heat.

Please don't breed burms. We have too many in rescues already that were dumped off on unsuspecting or even unexperienced people. If you love the species, don't breed them.

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Originally Posted by MPenn

The problem with a cage that size is that it is very hard to maintain heat and humidity.

If you are just wanting to get one, why not start with a male. A male of either species can reach 10 -14 feet with a respectable feeding schedule.

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Humidity may be an issue, but the cage would be built into a dedicated herp room which is kept at 78-80 degrees so heating shouldn't require much more than a few heat lamps and maybe a large heat mat in the floor.

I mentioned a few times that I would be getting a male. Seeing as how breeding isn't really in my plans for this, if I did decide to get a second large python I may just get another male. I believe that by the time I actually get around to doing all this I will be plenty ready for a potentially 18ft, 150lb snake, but a potentially 28ft, 300lb snake is a whole different story! I take my snakes out of their cages at least once, usually 2-3times, a week. I would feel comfortable with a male, but I'm not sure I would feel to safe taking out a 200+ pound female all by myself and I don't have many friends willing to help on a regular basis.

Like I said before, since this will be purely a display animal/pet I'm pretty confident that I will be more than happy with just a single specimen. I was just curious so I figured I'd get some opinions. At this point I'm leaning towards a male tiger retic. I know they are not known for having quite the sunny disposition that the burms tend to have, but I really like the look of them and since I plan on a fairly tall enclosure with some large climbing branches I'd like a snake that will actually make use of them. I haven't seen a whole lot of tree climbing burms!

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Originally Posted by AK4900PA

Humidity may be an issue, but the cage would be built into a dedicated herp room which is kept at 78-80 degrees so heating shouldn't require much more than a few heat lamps and maybe a large heat mat in the floor.

I mentioned a few times that I would be getting a male. Seeing as how breeding isn't really in my plans for this, if I did decide to get a second large python I may just get another male. I believe that by the time I actually get around to doing all this I will be plenty ready for a potentially 18ft, 150lb snake, but a potentially 28ft, 300lb snake is a whole different story! I take my snakes out of their cages at least once, usually 2-3times, a week. I would feel comfortable with a male, but I'm not sure I would feel to safe taking out a 200+ pound female all by myself and I don't have many friends willing to help on a regular basis.

Like I said before, since this will be purely a display animal/pet I'm pretty confident that I will be more than happy with just a single specimen. I was just curious so I figured I'd get some opinions. At this point I'm leaning towards a male tiger retic. I know they are not known for having quite the sunny disposition that the burms tend to have, but I really like the look of them and since I plan on a fairly tall enclosure with some large climbing branches I'd like a snake that will actually make use of them. I haven't seen a whole lot of tree climbing burms!

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I wish more people would THINK ahead when they are interested in any large snake like you are doing here :cool: .Hey maybe by the time you want to get one you will be able to buy dwarf tiger retics or such :D .

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Please don't breed burms. We have too many in rescues already that were dumped off on unsuspecting or even unexperienced people. If you love the species, don't breed them.

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I had thought of that before also. I don't think retics are that far behind them either as far as being abandoned. I was just looking at a reptile rescue site the other day and they actually had a male tiger retic up for adoption. I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat, but I want to make sure I have EVERYTHING set up and ready to go before I even start looking at babies. I'm really not interested in breeding retics or burms I just love the look and size of them. I'm currently putting together a very nice collection of BCI morphs that I will be breeding, but they are mostly going to be pets also. The main reason I am breeding them is because it is the only way I'll ever afford my rediculously expensive taste in morphs! If I can make enough extra cash to pay for all the cages, rats, vet bills, etc. that would be awesome too!

Agreed about retics. I will probably get flamed for this too but I'll say it. I don't like the idea of people breeding retics either. They are soon to be where burms are as you said, not to mention they are bred far more commonly and are prone to being nippy as babies. If you think about it, there aren't thousands and thousands of people than can care for adult retics, there are at least that many being born each year! I'd probably go for a monitor of some sort instead of a giant python personally if I had that kind of room. Make sure you get up pics soon though. I plan to get a pair of green tree monitors that will be in a giant cage as well.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I wish more people would THINK ahead when they are interested in any large snake like you are doing here :cool: .Hey maybe by the time you want to get one you will be able to buy dwarf tiger retics or such :D .

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You already can, they just aren't as small by the time they get done crossing them all with mainland morphs.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I wish more people would THINK ahead when they are interested in any large snake like you are doing here :cool: .Hey maybe by the time you want to get one you will be able to buy dwarf tiger retics or such :D .

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Thank you. I've wanted an albino burmese python since I was a little kid. I just got into the retics a year or so ago, but I'm well aware that owning a snake of this size and power is definitely NOT a decision to be taken lightly. I could buy a dwarf tiger no problem (bob clark has them for $750). I just don't really see the point of them unless it was a female. In the case of a female retic I would definitely consider a dwarf, but I want something that is going to get up around 15' or so, so a dwarf male would probably be a little smaller than I'd like. I think a male mainland retic or burmese should end up at right around the size I'm looking for (at least 12ft, but no more than 20ft).

Even most dwarfs females will get about 15' over time, especially if you get a dwarf tiger of some sort since they aren't pure dwarf blood.

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

You already can, they just aren't as small by the time they get done crossing them all with mainland morphs.

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I know you can buy them now i was just refering to when he is ready.If you know the correct people you can buy true dwarfs and not mixbreeds.

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Even most dwarfs females will get about 15' over time, especially if you get a dwarf tiger of some sort since they aren't pure dwarf blood.

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If I'm only looking for a single animal the dwarfs don't really make sense for me. I could get a male tiger for $200 or a female dwarf tiger for $750 and they both grow to a similiar size. Not really worth the extra money.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I know you can buy them now i was just refering to when he is ready.If you know the correct people you can buy true dwarfs and not mixbreeds.

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But as far as I know, there are no tigers that are pure dwarf. Tiger is only a mainland morph correct?

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

But as far as I know, there are no tigers that are pure dwarf. Tiger is only a mainland morph correct?

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As far as I know, that is correct. The tiger dwarfs that Mike Wilbanks and Bob Clark have are all half jampea and half mainland. Being a dominant morph though you could theoretically keep breeding to unrelated jampeas until the percentage got closer to 100% jampea.

Don't house them together.....

The cage is a bit too large imo, anywho. An 8' x 2' x 3' would do well for a female, and 6' x 2' x 3' would do well for a male. Housing two together, is a pain. Their fecal matter is huge, and come feeding time would be a pain. You shold feed them inside their enclosure. Its really ignorant to take them outside for feeding time, no offense. Moving a large animal from the tub or rubbermaid or what have you, back to the enclosure after feeding risks you and the snake getting injured severely. You can crack one of the snakes ribs, do some internal damage etc. That, and the fact that giants remain in feeding mode for upwards of a few hours. This could result in you getting nailed. Take all that into consideration, and how strong their feeding response is; mixing another snake in the enclosure risks a fight breaking out between the two....and trying to separate a pair of 12-14' pythons going at it isn't fun, or easy.

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Originally Posted by AK4900PA

I've been considering purchasing a male retic or burm for awhile now and have a question about housing. If I do purchase a large python it won't be for at least a year or two as I have a few boas and more cages I need to purchase for my breeding project, but I'm somewhat neurotic about planning ahead so here I am. Anyways, if I decide to get a burm or retic I will be building a very large, built-in, display enclosure for him. The cage would be roughly 12' wide, 4' deep and 8' tall. I'm just designing things in my head right now, but it would have very large branches for climbing, some rocks, plants, and maybe even a small pond. Now heres my question. Obviously I would not have room for multiple cages of this size so if I got my male and later on down the road got the urge to get him a girlfriend would it be alright to house them together? I know it is generally frowned upon to house more than one snake in a single enclosure, but I'm wondering if it would be ok in a situation like this where they would have a significant amount of space to live in.

Anyone have an opinion on this? More than likely I would be perfectly content with a single male since it will be purchased purely as a pet, but I'm still kinda curious.

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Originally Posted by AndrewH

Don't house them together.....

The cage is a bit too large imo, anywho. An 8' x 2' x 3' would do well for a female, and 6' x 2' x 3' would do well for a male. Housing two together, is a pain. Their fecal matter is huge, and come feeding time would be a pain. You shold feed them inside their enclosure. Its really ignorant to take them outside for feeding time, no offense. Moving a large animal from the tub or rubbermaid or what have you, back to the enclosure after feeding risks you and the snake getting injured severely. You can crack one of the snakes ribs, do some internal damage etc. That, and the fact that giants remain in feeding mode for upwards of a few hours. This could result in you getting nailed. Take all that into consideration, and how strong their feeding response is; mixing another snake in the enclosure risks a fight breaking out between the two....and trying to separate a pair of 12-14' pythons going at it isn't fun, or easy.

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Thats the first time I ever heard someone say an enclosure was too large for a retic/burm. Any reasoning behind that statement?

I always feed my snakes in their own enclosures.

I do not believe that that is too much space for a burm or retic. Unnecessary, maybe. I see where Andrew is going only in that snakes, even giants, like to feel secure in tighter enclosures. This does not mean too small, it just means enough space for the animal to move, coil itself, stretch out along its perimeter, eat comfortably, etc.

A cage of this size wouldn't be used until it is an adult. I'm not going to put a baby in that huge of a cage and allthough I haven't actually drawn any plans up yet, I do intend to put some very think branches, rocks, and some plants so it won't just be a big empty box. I'd also like to do a small pond and test out my masonry skills by building a kind of stone cave as a hide.