a little help please

i got my baby BP about 3 or 4 weeks ago. she hadn't eaten any of the thawed mice i tried to feed her (she was raised on live mice) so yesterday i picked up a live feeder and she ate it as soon as it went in the cage.
although i'm glad she got some food in her i'm not sure how i feel about continuing to feed live mice. i'm just wondering if theres any way i can transition her into eating thawed mice. i felt terrible putting a live mouse in her cage knowing it was going to die, and that if it bit her she could get hurt.

I've heard you need to first try live then prekilled then frozen thawed...you'll have to do the mouse dance though (shake the mouse with tongs or something to hold the mouse). I haven't tried it though.

Maybe thoughs who have transitions their ball pythons to frozen or prekilled can help.

When I receive a new BP and he is feeding live I always feed at least 3 live meals before attempting to switch so there is at least one constant while adjusting to his new environment.

Now switching can take time so you will have to be patient, in some cases some BP will never take F/T which mean that you should also be prepared to feed live.

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

When I receive a new BP and he is feeding live I always feed at least 3 live meals before attempting to switch so there is at least one constant while adjusting to his new environment.

Now switching can take time so you will have to be patient, in some cases some BP will never take F/T which mean that you should also be prepared to feed live.

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thank you, i will try feeding live 2 more times then try offering thawed again.
i am prepared to continue feeding live, since the snake is now my responsibility, it will just take a little getting use to, i'll just try not to look at their cute little faces before i drop them in!

Wait until one of the little #*$&%^ bites you! Gets easier after that...

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Wait until one of the little #*$&%^ bites you! Gets easier after that...

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hah, that might change my mind a little!

try putting a live mouse in a paper bag "accidently" smack the bag off a doorframe etc, voila! no more guilt

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Originally Posted by jeffjr464

try putting a live mouse in a paper bag "accidently" smack the bag off a doorframe etc, voila! no more guilt

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Hi,

It costs very little to make a co2 chamber in the scheme of things and that's probably the best solution to change live to pk. Have a look in the feeder section for threads on killing the humane way to see which one suits you better.

Just because the mouse is destined to be food it should still be well treated ( and in fact that is in all likelyhood a legal requirement - I know it is over here) and "smacking the bag off a doorframe" could land you in a lot of trouble.


dr del

ok if you don't like the bag method how bout a mousetrap? lol what's the difference if you kill a mouse in your house with a trap or give it one quick painless whack, if i was a mouse id rather be killed instantly than having my air supply cutoff and suffocating to death

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Wait until one of the little #*$&%^ bites you! Gets easier after that...

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Bingo!!!!!

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Originally Posted by jeffjr464

ok if you don't like the bag method how bout a mousetrap? lol what's the difference if you kill a mouse in your house with a trap or give it one quick painless whack, if i was a mouse id rather be killed instantly than having my air supply cutoff and suffocating to death

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Eeekkk... I couldn't do either of those things. I'd feel MUCH more guilty smacking a mouse than dropping it in with my snake. At least a snake eating its prey occurs in nature. I'm pretty sure getting thrown into a door frame isn't one of the most common causes of death for a mouse.

i had mice in my house that i had to trap after they raided my cuboards so maybe im a little blind to mouse ethics

Being a new BP owner, I'm in 'humaneness' conflict myself ... from reading/hearing the two-sided debate on whether or not to feed a live mouse vs. a pre killed mouse, I've heard more that pre-killed is better, due to the fact that the live mouse could injure your snake (or have a tendency to make the snake more aggressive in nature) - well I definitely don't want that, so I accepted that pre killed was going to have to be the process (that's what they were fed in the pet store, and I know that BP's are finicky eaters, so I don't want to jeopardize her not eating due to 'change.' - and she's eaten every Friday on schedule no problems.) But I really don't like 'whacking' the mouse on the counter to kill/knock it out for the snake ... I feel so bad having to kill it myself.

I'm lucky that my ball is a voracious eater... For the most part I don't worry about him getting bitten (I however always supervise).

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Being a new BP owner, I'm in 'humaneness' conflict myself ... from reading/hearing the two-sided debate on whether or not to feed a live mouse vs. a pre killed mouse, I've heard more that pre-killed is better, due to the fact that the live mouse could injure your snake (or have a tendency to make the snake more aggressive in nature)

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Which ever you chose just know that live if done responsibility is perfectly fine.

Bottom line when it comes to feeding, you should feed what work for your BP and what is convenient for you.

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I really don't like 'whacking' the mouse on the counter to kill/knock it out for the snake ... I feel so bad having to kill it myself.

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Know that there are more human ways to kill a rodent if you wish to feed P/K

http://www.thereddragonsden.com/co2.htm (cost around 50$ to make)

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33850

I would agree that 2 or 3 more weekly feedings of it's preferred live prey are best then you could try f/t. Make sure the f/t mouse is warmed appropriately, often giving it a quick blast with a hair dryer on hot just seconds before it enters the snake's tank will also bump up it's temp a bit, use tongs or hemostats to grasp it by the loose skin between it's shoulder blades and "dance" it in a lifelike mannner. Don't shove it in the snake's face, just "walk" it by much like a live mouse would do.

As to the live issue. First remember that snakes do not suffocate their prey. Suffocation is a slow manner of death which would not be in the snake's best interest when dealing with live prey with teeth. Nature designed them to constrict with enough pressure to almost immediately stop cardiac function which leads to a very quick death. Our human emotion of empathy for the prey while understandable really has no place in this well designed predator/prey dynamic. As I see it, my role is to both provide well for the live prey I offer, treating them in a humane and educated manner while they exist in my colony as well as setting up a live feeding experience that is safe and appropriate for our snakes.

Whether you feed live, pre-killed or frozen/thawed you owe the prey animal and the snake that exists solely off it, to educate yourself. Things like learning proper care of living prey, proper thawing methods, humane euthanizing, methods of offering prey and what an appropriate prey size and feeding schedule is. Do that and you, your snake and it's prey will all do fine. :)

i meant suffocate by using a co2 chamber, that seems the worst of all to me

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Originally Posted by jeffjr464

ok if you don't like the bag method how bout a mousetrap? lol what's the difference if you kill a mouse in your house with a trap or give it one quick painless whack, if i was a mouse id rather be killed instantly than having my air supply cutoff and suffocating to death

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Hi,:)

To the mouse? Probably not a lot - though the co2 chamber is still regarded as more humane.

To me? Also not a lot - I wasn't expressing a personal preference.:)

To a lawyer? There's a world of difference - one of those mice is classified as vermin and you are legally entitled to kill it using approved methods and the other is a pet you are legally obliged to care for in very specific ways that also include how its life can be terminated.

While most of the animal control personnel here would be hard pushed to identify a reptile if you tickled them with it much less recognise if it was being cared for correctly they are pretty good at identifying questionable husbandry practices with pretty much any type of mammal.:(

I wasn't trying to tell you not to kill mice or call you cruel for feeding your snake - I was merely trying to point out that if anyone tells an animal control person you slammed a mouse off a doorframe in a bag they are likely to get quite het up about it and if they successfully convince a judge that it is cruel then you can be banned from keeping any animals for a period of years.

Given the extremity of the consequencies I prefer to recomend people use euthanasia methods regarded as humane and thus legally problem free whenever it comes up.

Hope this clarifies my previous posts a little.


dr del

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Originally Posted by jeffjr464

i meant suffocate by using a co2 chamber, that seems the worst of all to me

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Lots of threads in the FEEDERS forum about it, but if done correctly, they actually go to sleep first, then die, so if it's the right mix and slow enough, they don't actually suffocate.

it's all a mute point to me now, mines eating live mice :) he gulped one down today in 2 minutes flat,had a drink and went to bed :)

Sounds like a perfect feeding experience and just what most ball pythons do. Snarf down dinner, have a nice drink (sucking down rodents is thirsty work apparently) and then slither off for a good snooze. :)

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Wait until one of the little #*$&%^ bites you! Gets easier after that...

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Or name them after the dentists that JUST did your fillings! *yesterdays excitement*