BP living with a venomous snake

Shocked when I saw it but kinda makes sense whe I think about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqFITWQwaAc

Quote from the author:

"The Ball was a gift and currently lives with the Squamiger. They occupy different nitches in the cage but do interact. As I mentioned, the Ball has in the past taken mice right out of the mouth of the Squam. Other than that one incident they get along fine. Many Zoo's are now setting up mixed environments as long as the species get along."

Hmm.


Just sounds damned idiotic to me. Why would this be considered advantageous for either species?


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hmm.


Just sounds damned idiotic to me. Why would this be considered advantageous for either species?


dr del

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I second this!! Someone should place those people in a cage with a lion and see how the feel :P .

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Quote from the author:

"The Ball was a gift and currently lives with the Squamiger. They occupy different nitches in the cage but do interact. As I mentioned, the Ball has in the past taken mice right out of the mouth of the Squam. Other than that one incident they get along fine. Many Zoo's are now setting up mixed environments as long as the species get along."

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And what exactly are those two different niches? Looks like they are both eating dead rodents provided by the keeper to me. Kind of hard to even occupy a niche let alone two when you have none of the basic components of a self-sufficient ecosystem in play.

Do these species ranges even overlap in the wild? Is there any chance of the two meeting due to the introduction of one of them as an exotic species?

The fact that the bp stole a rodent from the Squamiger demonstrates quite simplely that they are competitors.

While I could maybe stretch my mind to see a few reasons to house the two together for a controlled experiment, I don't think this is what the the video producer has in mind. Furthermore, such experiments would be crude and are unlikely to meet experimental animal care guidelines.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Shocked when I saw it but kinda makes sense whe I think about it.

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No it doesn't. Zoo's mix animals that regularly cohabitate... as in, they would comfortable be around each other in the wild. A Ball Python is NOT going to be chilling around a bush viper.

Poor husbandry from someone that doesn't know what he's doing (at the very least, with the ball).

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Do these species ranges even overlap in the wild? Is there any chance of the two meeting due to the introduction of one of them as an exotic species?

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They might overlap, but only barely as BV's are typically found further east than Ghana. However, interaction at that close is unlikely (or if it would occur, would be short-lived) since BV's are aboreal. Suffice to say, the habbitat they share is completely unlike that which may occur in the wild. The quarters are simply too close.

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

They might overlap, but only barely as BV's are typically found further east than Ghana. However, interaction at that close is unlikely (or if it would occur, would be short-lived) since BV's are aboreal. Suffice to say, the habbitat they share is completely unlike that which may occur in the wild. The quarters are simply too close.

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Exactly!

i just cant belive what i saw in that vid :eek::(:mad:

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Poor husbandry from someone that doesn't know what he's doing (at the very least, with the ball).

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I've seen that guys videos on youtube before and I don't like what he does at all. When he handles his snakes with a hook he appears clumsy and he had one video where he let a Gaboon Viper roam around the room which seemed small and cluttered. It wouldn't surprise me if he gets bit one day.

I assumed by "niche" he meant the BP was ground dweller and the other a tree dweller, thus not competing for the same space. Ican wrap my mind around that idea but I do think feeding them together is a no-no.

Well, If the zoo's do it it must be alright. Right? :colbert:

Sure I'm gonna get flamed for this....But all in all it seems like he has an idea of what is going on. Don't agree with him keeping the snakes together but look at all the tanks he has, helping the one snake get the bad shed off, I dunno, so we don't agree with what he does, so that makes him an idiot? Seems that the only time someone isn't an idiot is when their ideas and opinions agree with everyone else's here.

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Originally Posted by sw204me

Sure I'm gonna get flamed for this....But all in all it seems like he has an idea of what is going on. Don't agree with him keeping the snakes together but look at all the tanks he has, helping the one snake get the bad shed off, I dunno, so we don't agree with what he does, so that makes him an idiot? Seems that the only time someone isn't an idiot is when their ideas and opinions agree with everyone else's here.

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You are mistaking by thinking someone is considered a idiot when everyone else disagrees with them.Those types of people prove without a doubt they are indeed IDIOTS all by themselves by doing stupid things like the person in that clip is doing.;)

besides the ball python in the same tank, what else is he doing that makes him an idiot?

The guy seems like a complete idiot to me. He has more guts than he has brains IMO.

But on the other hand, I must admit his animals have pretty impressive feeding responses, especially with him feeding f/t

There is what you CAN do, and then there is basic common sense. Any one think it is sensible to put a venomous snake in close quarters with a BP? ANYONE!!? Im not saying for sure there is going to be problems.......Yes i am.

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

But on the other hand, I must admit his animals have pretty impressive feeding responses, especially with him feeding f/t

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Thats what i noticed. They cant be too stressed if there all eating like that. Even the BP jumped all over it. I wish my BP would do that.

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Originally Posted by sw204me

Sure I'm gonna get flamed for this....But all in all it seems like he has an idea of what is going on. Don't agree with him keeping the snakes together but look at all the tanks he has, helping the one snake get the bad shed off, I dunno, so we don't agree with what he does, so that makes him an idiot?

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Wow that's a stretch... he owns lots of tanks and helped with a shed so he knows what he's doing? Sorry, but having a lot of something doesn't mean you know what your doing, just means you have a lot of it.

I don't know if he's an idiot, but he certainly is uneducated when it comes to the snakes he owns.

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Seems that the only time someone isn't an idiot is when their ideas and opinions agree with everyone else's here.

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Nothing beats real life experience. The practices that most members take part in at bp.net do so because they are time-proven methods. That doesn't mean if someone disagrees they are an idiot... on the contrary, you'll notice a lot of debates among long-time members here (ie, Live vs F/T, substrate choices etc). But there's a thin line between differing opinions and just BAD husbandry.

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

But on the other hand, I must admit his animals have pretty impressive feeding responses, especially with him feeding f/t

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Well, the snakes in question are all aggressive feeders. The ball python was aggressive as well, however, that's not surprising given he was forced into a competition for food. Ignoring that, there are some super aggressive ball pythons, you can ask any of the breeders here, and even on a small scale they'll have one or two BP's that are ultra-aggressive.

I've seen a few of the other videos that this guy has on YouTube, and I agree with what was said before that this guy has more guts than brains. I would NEVER house two seperate species together, not matter what the circumstances were. It seems to me that this guy cares more about the responses that he's getting from these videos than the overall well being of the animals that are in his care.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

You are mistaking by thinking someone is considered a idiot when everyone else disagrees with them.Those types of people prove without a doubt they are indeed IDIOTS all by themselves by doing stupid things like the person in that clip is doing.;)

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in what way has he proven to be an idiot?

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

The guy seems like a complete idiot to me. He has more guts than he has brains IMO.

But on the other hand, I must admit his animals have pretty impressive feeding responses, especially with him feeding f/t

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Your stating an opinion with no facts behind it.

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

I don't know if he's an idiot, but he certainly is uneducated when it comes to the snakes he owns.


Well, the snakes in question are all aggressive feeders. The ball python was aggressive as well, however, that's not surprising given he was forced into a competition for food. Ignoring that, there are some super aggressive ball pythons, you can ask any of the breeders here, and even on a small scale they'll have one or two BP's that are ultra-aggressive.

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He had a pretty good idea and information about his snakes. Even to the point of using scentific terms, that mean hes educated, yes, has common sense, no.

How was the BP in competition for food? Each was given its own mouse, how in any way was he having to fight for food?

Still have yet to see anyone show why he is an idiot, other then the "In my opinion" which is just that, your opinion. What does he DO that shows hes an idiot, he sounded like he knew what he was talking about when he was describing the snakes, do any of you own a venomous snake? Do you all know all the scientific lingo when it comes to something as basic as a BP? How many of you are struggling with getting just one snake to feed, he had how many feed?

Ya, he helpped a snake shed, you all know how to help a deadly snake to shed? Or even know how to handle one? I keep asking for proof in that video that hes an idiot and has no idea what he is doing, and all I am getting back is "IMO hes an idiot".

I am backing up my arguement, why aren't you all backing up yours?

My thoughts on this are mixed at the moments. If you watch his videos, he makes it clear that these are not his pets. They are zoological specimens to him. While he does care for them in a general sense, it's not on the level of a dog or cat. He says no poisonous snake could or should be anyone's pet. On that I agree and I think everyone here would too. So for all we know, having to BP and the other snake together is an experiment.

I mean how many of you here work with all kinds of snakes including poisonous ones like this guy does? I know I can't judge the guy. He may indeed be a moron. But to me it appears his snakes are healthy and takes great care of them and respects the damage they can do.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

My thoughts on this are mixed at the moments. If you watch his videos, he makes it clear that these are not his pets. They are zoological specimens to him. While he does care for them in a general sense, it's not on the level of a dog or cat. He says no poisonous snake could or should be anyone's pet. On that I agree and I think everyone here would too. So for all we know, having to BP and the other snake together is an experiment.

I mean how many of you here work with all kinds of snakes including poisonous ones like this guy does? I know I can't judge the guy. He may indeed be a moron. But to me it appears his snakes are healthy and takes great care of them and respects the damage they can do.

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I don't think anyone works with poisonous snakes. Venomous, yes. Poisonous, no.;)

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I mean how many of you here work with all kinds of snakes including poisonous ones like this guy does? I know I can't judge the guy. He may indeed be a moron. But to me it appears his snakes are healthy and takes great care of them and respects the damage they can do.

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A person has to be a little off their cracker to have venomous snakes as pets in the first place. It's a risk and considering the price is your life for taking one hit makes it even more goofy.


Look at this. Letting the Gaboon Viper come out to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_2bMBuZgts



Here he is fumbling about with a Puff Adder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGQymtHaz9c


You couldn't pay me to go near those snakes.

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Originally Posted by sw204me

He had a pretty good idea and information about his snakes. Even to the point of using scentific terms, that mean hes educated, yes, has common sense, no.

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My sister is a nurse. I know a lot of medical terms, however, that doesn't mean I should be performing surgery, now does it? The guy clearly has no common sense, limited knowledge does not take the place of an education about the animals.

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How was the BP in competition for food? Each was given its own mouse, how in any way was he having to fight for food?

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When two animals that eat the same prey items share very close quarters, survival of the fittest takes place. The BP and BV don't have any idea that the "owner" is going to feed them every week. All they know, is that when prey items they want come into the cage, there's another animal that wants it too.

That's just the nature of the beast. Neither of the animals are domesticated... they are wild, and instinct to survive is what drives them.

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Still have yet to see anyone show why he is an idiot, other then the "In my opinion" which is just that, your opinion. What does he DO that shows hes an idiot, he sounded like he knew what he was talking about when he was describing the snakes, do any of you own a venomous snake? Do you all know all the scientific lingo when it comes to something as basic as a BP? How many of you are struggling with getting just one snake to feed, he had how many feed?

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Now you are just being ignorant. Do you realize the snakes he had were almost all naturally aggressive eaters? Do you know how long its been since they all fed last? Nope. You make far too many assumptions based on the feeding response of one Ball Python.

And while I don't personally own a venomous, I do work with them. Do you?

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Ya, he helpped a snake shed, you all know how to help a deadly snake to shed? Or even know how to handle one? I keep asking for proof in that video that hes an idiot and has no idea what he is doing, and all I am getting back is "IMO hes an idiot".

I am backing up my arguement, why aren't you all backing up yours?

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No, your backing up your argument with utter nonsense about what WE don't know. I've been working with reptiles for many years now, and there are still people on this very forum who can run circles around me with their intimate knowledge of Ball Pythons, Bush Vipers and literally every other animal imaginable.

However, in answer to your question, again, I don't think he's an idiot. He's uneducated and a poor keeper. There is no proof that he's an "idiot", because he didn't show his IQ test scores on the video. On that note, I have my assumptions that he wouldn't score well. There is proof, however, that he is a highly uneducated herper. He violates one of the most BASIC of principles, putting two animals together that don't actually cohabitate in the wild.

Remember, you are judging this person by his words. The rest of us are judging him by his actions. What do you suppose is more realistic?

Not only that but rule number one of hot keeping is to always handle with 2 people. Also, that cluttered room is not a safe place to be handling hots, let alone putting them on the ground. I know he has said that he intends on getting a bigger herp room, so why did he keep adding to his collection if he did not have sufficient space for them?

First I am no expert. But common sense would tell me a few things. Just because the guy uses big words by no means does that make him an educated man. Any one with a libary card or the internet can use scientific or technical terms. Another handy tool is a thesaurus, say it with me now the·sau·rus. Another thing to ponder is, is his little vivarium going to be able to replicate anything a close to what a zoo can do as far as creating an ecosystem? Keep in mind the size of his herp room. To say that "zoos do it, so why cant anyone else" is ignorant. Zoos also have lions, tigers and bears. I would not suggest these animals for an at home experiment. If he is conducting an experiment (wich I cant say one way or the other, but neither can you). Tell me what in the world he is trying to discover that hasnt been already? Now Im going to go out on limb here and speculate, but I am guessing that this was not acually a scientifc experiment, but in fact was a guy who ran out of space in his herp room. Yet he still wanted more animals.

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Originally Posted by BiG~PUN

say it with me now the·sau·rus.

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I know what that is!!!

it is a 3 horned dinasaur right???

:giggle:

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

I know what that is!!!

it is a 3 horned dinasaur right???

:giggle:

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Correct! :clap: This is one meening. You could also use it like so:

I recieved thesaurus after I told a lie. My father gave it to me by bending me over his knee.

Since nearly everyone on here agrees that "one enclosure - one snake" then he's violating that rule right away.
Mixing species is almost never a good idea.
Handling hots the way he does looks irresponsible(I've HANDLED hots, do not own hots.).
You should always have room for new specimans before you acquire them.
He's got several things that people here disagree with. That doesn't make him an 'idiot' or a 'moron' but it does result in the people here disagreeing with his husbandry practices.
I rarely have a ball python that doesn't eat, and they always shed properly without needing help(maybe once in four months or so a little piece of shed somewhere?). I got one good clutch of eggs last year and all 4 hatchlings lived and fed. I still don't consider myself all that knowledgable as there's TONS more to learn.
IF he asked my opinion, I'd say he was doing those things wrong, and should change his practices.
Wolfy

IMO, anyone who handles hots like that and in that room is an idiot.

I am curious as to why you think his vocabulary makes him a good herper...

I'd say he has some things right and alot of things wrong.
He pointed out himself in the video that most of the time, the three snakes he keeps together end up biteing each other when they get fed. That is a good reason not to house multiple snakes together. I have yet to hear some one give a good reason TO house multiple snakes together. Can you give any? The only reason I can think of would be that some one is too cheap to house them properly, and that is a pretty sad reason.