What to do at night?

So lets say I have my heating element that is a light. At night, just turn it off? Will the temp dip to low? I guess what I'm asking is, what do you do at night?

get a purple/incandecent bulb, and leave it on all the time.


~mike

You must provide heat 24 hours a day. Most keepers use a UTH (Under Tank Heater) controlled by a quality thermostat that's left on all the time.


Lights tend to make keeping humidity in the proper levels challenging.

They also make a CHE, which doesn't emit light, but still gives heat. I myself use I sterlite tub with uth's because I find that much easier to deal with. :D

An infared bulb would be fine too, i use a UTH on a thermostat and the infared in the winter months to help keep temps up on the cool side. I've never tried just a bulb for heat, and dont know how effective they are at heating a tank? Which im assuming is the type of enclosure where using here.

i had the same problem and i just went out and bought a red bulb from petco. pretty easy change, but im definately lacking light in my room now because it doesnt emit a whole lot of light but its doing a good job helping keep the temperature up.

hm. So will an UTH be enough heat? Every tank I see has a light fixture on top. (This is for a glass tank)

Hi,


That seems to depend a lot on the ambient room temperatures and what brand of heating you choose.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,


That seems to depend a lot on the ambient room temperatures and what brand of heating you choose.


dr del

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Well, what do you recommend for a tank setup?

Hi,


Well again that depends on ambient temps and what you want in a tank.

If the ambient temps are in the low 80's and all you want is to keep the snake as happy as possible then I'd probably recomend a tub set up with a nice thermostat coupled to flexwatt under one third of the tank.

If, however, you had your heart set on a display tank in a cold room then obviously you are going to need either a uth at both ends (with warm end only being a third of the floor space) or possibly some kind of ceramic/bulb heater to supplement. And then you have to factor in substrate and how it will affect the performance of an under tank heating system.

On a side note if you want to use any form of incandecent heating in a tank then you need a proportional thermostat which obviously costs more otherwise the blinking on and off will drive you nuts.

Also if you plan to get more snakes fairly soon then a rack system or stackable enclosure might also be an option.

Best advice is to work out what features you want, what it has to contend with to provide the right temps etc and then look at the threads in the caging forum to find one that can do all that while giving you the look you would prefer (if that's important).

Then try and find out if it is within budget. Realistically don't skimp on the caging but there is no reason to spend thousands either.

hope this long ramble helps a little.



dr del

And I thought it wasn't going to be this complicated... Well, I do want a glass show tank as opposed to a tub. I live in an air conditioned house in Kentucky, USA. I will keep doing research and post my proposed system and see what everyone thinks, see if it will actually work. In the mean time, I need to keep learning.

So, in this setting, what is the best course of action for heating? You mention in the post above that I may need UTH on both ends. If this is the case, how does one keep 1/3 hot (90 degrees), and the rest cooler (80's)? Sorry if I seem totally lost but this is turning out to be a little more complicated than I thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clawlan

And I thought it wasn't going to be this complicated... Well, I do want a glass show tank as opposed to a tub. I live in an air conditioned house in Kentucky, USA. I will keep doing research and post my proposed system and see what everyone thinks, see if it will actually work. In the mean time, I need to keep learning.

So, in this setting, what is the best course of action for heating? You mention in the post above that I may need UTH on both ends. If this is the case, how does one keep 1/3 hot (90 degrees), and the rest cooler (80's)? Sorry if I seem totally lost but this is turning out to be a little more complicated than I thought.

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Yes it can seem a little daunting at first.

The idea is to have one end at 90-94f and the other end at 80-85f. I hate to say it but a tank is a little harder to sort out than a tub initially.

To answer the how there are a few possibilities - two thermostats (one for hot one for cool) this is the prefered method as your heat sources are going to be different sizes in all likely hood. The less expensive (and less precise) way would be to put the heat matt for the cool end on a dimmer and spend a couple of days fiddling with it till you think it's calibrated right.

I recomend not trying the dimmer technique at all if you are mixing ceramic top heat and heat matts - the voltage and current differences make it too risky to me.

It's also only fair to warn you you will hardly ever see your snake in the tank in all probablility. :) Nocturnal ,shy snakes are not exactly a natural display animal.

Here's the link to our glass tank set up sticky to give you an idea of the more common methods of doing it.

Everything in this situation is somewhat of a trade off when it gets right down to it.

Belly heat for example is thought by many to be the best for ball pythons - but in a display tank setup then the substrate can insulate too much if care is not take to the extent that to reach the desired temperature inside the animals hide the matt gets so hot it can crack the glass of the tank or burn the snake should it burrow down to it.

Top heat is good for keeping the ambient temps up but tends to have a horrible effect on the humidity.

This is why you did exactly the right thing by trying to find all the information before starting.:rockon:

Many people end up buying very expensive geegaws that don't actually work at all and , basically, have to throw it all out and start again.

And if they had already got the snake at this point everything is suddenly terribly urgent and mistakes get made to the animals detriment.

Best plan is keep asking the questions, don't buy anything till you are sure it will work and is what you really want and then have everything running for a week or so to check everything before you actually get the animal. :)

Add to this buying a good quality, well started animal from a trusted breeder and you should be on your way to many years of stress free herping.:D



dr del

thanks for all the info so far. I know there is a lot more that I need to learn before starting. The one thing I am having a hard time understanding is keeping the snake in a tub. Isn't the point of keeping a snake to be able to look at it? I see it as buying beautiful fish and keeping them in a solid black tank where you cant see them.

Well the side of the tubs isn't totally opaque so you can still see it. Plus once it is settled in and eating fine then you can handle it for short periods as long as it doesn't stress the snake.


Also , if that was the only way to keep the fish happy, then that's what most people on here would do and just content themselves with peeking in the tank top every now and again.:)

Either that or build the tank entirely out of one way mirror glass - we can be quite inventive little so and so's at times.:D



dr del

I'm looking forward to being able to handle the snake. I'm reading up on that long FAQ on tank set-up now. Seems like it will give me a good idea on what I'll need to be successful.

Right now at this moment im using a 39 gal tall tank for my ball and i live in Canada so in the winter months i had to develop a sure way to keep my temps and humidity up. Heres what i did, the tank is much taller than what i need at 18" but my other tanks are to big for him just yet so i used a UTH that covers just under half the bottom. I also covered the top with tin foil and duck tape just as in the sticky for glass tank setups
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...0&page=2&pp=10

I put a heat lamp on the cool side and used a purple 50 watt bulb at first and found that it wasnt getting the ambient temps warm enough so i switched to a 75w infared and up they went but a little to high. Up to this point i've been using a crappy zoomed 500r thermostat for my UTH (which im changing to a ranco as soon as it arrives) and not wanting the light going on and off all day and night in my room i decided i would put a good lamp dimmer from homedepot on it and works well. Every morning when i get up to check for waste and change water i adjust the dimmer for my ambient temps if needed ( i usually dont have to touch it unless theirs a big swing in room temps).

So know that my temps were sorted out with a UTH on a thermostat and heat lamp with an infared bulb on a dimmer, my top foiled and taped up i was good for temps and could keep them stable by just checking daily, no problem. But now because of the heat lamp my humidity was suffering large dropping down to 20% on a daily bases, no good. I then went out and bought a replacement element and adapter for an ultra-sonic fogger. The kind that you see at Wal-mart for decorations the make the cool mist in the glass bowls. I put it in side a large peanut butter jar and cut a slit a little more than half way up across the middle around 4 inches long. Placed it ontop of the tank with the slit just over top of the vent opening and plugged it into the thermostat. Now every time my UTH clicks on so does the fogger and it rains down a mist into the tank keeping my humidity up around 55%. Before this i was misting 3 times a day and now i dont half to touch anything.

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Originally Posted by clawlan

The one thing I am having a hard time understanding is keeping the snake in a tub. Isn't the point of keeping a snake to be able to look at it? I see it as buying beautiful fish and keeping them in a solid black tank where you cant see them.

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When I want to look at any of mine, I take them out. ;)

If you wanted a display snake, a ball python was the wrong choice. If you have everything set up correctly, your ball python should be spending 80% of its time INSIDE its snug, tight hide, out of your view.

I kept my first ball python in a glass tank for the same reasons that you mentioned.

After he fasted for 8 months, because "I" wanted a pretty tank, vs what he needed, I switched him to a tub set-up. He's paying for my stubborn-ness - he's the smallest of my '05 snakes (by at least 1/2 if not more). Now he eats every single week, and didn't fast this past winter. The tub offered a lower ceiling, and the security and more importantly - stable temps that he required to thrive.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

When I want to look at any of mine, I take them out. ;)

If you wanted a display snake, a ball python was the wrong choice. If you have everything set up correctly, your ball python should be spending 80% of its time INSIDE its snug, tight hide, out of your view.

I kept my first ball python in a glass tank for the same reasons that you mentioned.

After he fasted for 8 months, because "I" wanted a pretty tank, vs what he needed, I switched him to a tub set-up. He's paying for my stubborn-ness - he's the smallest of my '05 snakes (by at least 1/2 if not more). Now he eats every single week, and didn't fast this past winter. The tub offered a lower ceiling, and the security and more importantly - stable temps that he required to thrive.

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well, given that I want a display tank and would like to see some activity in the tank, what type of snake do you recommend? Perhaps a corn snake? I would like something that is slower moving and can take out of the tank and handle.

Also, can you direct me to a "setting up ball python tub" FAQ?

When my roommate insisted running the AC all the time, I had problems w/the temps, but I got a CHE and that really helped.


I have tanks and tubs: the 65g acrylic, I have a red 75 watt and a reg. incandscent in the lid, separated by a plastic lid w/screen so that Petey can't get to the hot bulbs. Leaving the red 75w on all the time keeps the ambient temp to 85*. The hot side is a UTH on the inside of the tank, but it's one of those brands that the heat unit is encapsulated in plastic. I check the metal tape regularly to make sure Petey can't get stuck.

The UTH is on the inside b/c the acrylic tank is too thick to allow the heat thru to the snake. I've got the UTH temp controlled by a rheostat. Where the tank is now, the temp is consistantly 94.8*. I'm sure once the summer nights stay warm, I won't need the red light, but for now w/the house heat, the UTH and the red bulb, the temps are right.

My other 40g breeder, and 32g long are in the temp controlled room, so the ambient temp is 84* and the individual UTHs on the tanks and tubs, provide the hotspots. Some are rheostat controlled (4) and the other 18 are on t-stats (either tubs or racks).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clawlan

well, given that I want a display tank and would like to see some activity in the tank, what type of snake do you recommend? Perhaps a corn snake? I would like something that is slower moving and can take out of the tank and handle.

Also, can you direct me to a "setting up ball python tub" FAQ?

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there is a tub setup DIY sticky.....http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=40

my corns are very active they are all over their enclosures. they are still young, and they can be a little flighty. but once you handle them they start to settle down. my amel aflie is quick when i first take her out, but after a few mins she calms down and just chills like a ball python. my other one snacho will almost jump out of my hand, so i handle him a couple of mins 3-4 times a day and hopefully he will tame down.

since you are a first time snake owner i would stick with the ball python and learn how to manage husbandry, and how to read a snake. then further down the road you can get a Boa, which in my opinion are great display snakes.

i started with a ball not so long ago, then i got hit by the bug and now i want one of everything. maybe you'll be the same way...

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Originally Posted by sweety314

there is a tub setup DIY sticky.....http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=40

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Ok, I have read this sticky and some others and it seems to have the same issues as the glass tank would with needing 2 UTH's and controlling each with a separate thermostat for hot side and cool side. The only difference seems that with the tub, it better holds in moisture and the tube itself is cheaper. But if the $40 for a glass tank and covering the screen top of a tank with foil to hold in moisture doesn't concern you, is there really a difference?

Or, does a tub setup allow you to only need one UTH for the hot side? I know gradient temperature control is critical for a BP so I just want to be able to provide the best environment possible.

Hello, I have read as much as I could about the pros and cons of all tank setups. This is what I have went with and it works great for me. My snakes are pets and not to breed, I went with a very high dollar plexiglass tank that I am thinking now may be a better type of plastic. I bought it from a relative for $100 and glad I did, my bp is 30" and was outgrowing her old tank. It's a 55 gallon tank that is 48" long, it holds the temps at a steady 94 during the day and 86-88 during the night. I use 2 heat lamps, one is a 150 watt for day heat and is a clear bulb which I have read helps the snake. I then use a red bulb for the eveing and night so the snake can still be viewed. I have both bulbs set up with a rheostat and a timer switch. The day bulbs is on from 7am-7pm and then shuts off then the night bulb comes on and runs from 7pm-7am. It has worked great for me for 3 months now, my snake is very healthy and doesn't seemed stressed at all. It never turns down a meal, and the humidity level is 50-60 and has had 2 good sheds. I read several articles that plexiglass tanks don't hold the temp. but I have not had any problems. I had to tweak the setup to get the temps just right. The timers also mean I don't have to mess with the bulbs from day to night.

thanks for the input. I think im going to go with my original plan of glass tank, herpstat II and 2 heating pads (one warm side, one cooler side) or maybe heat tape if people think it is better, and cover the screen top with foil to hold in moisture.

I would also suggest you get some of the 3/4" foam insulation board to put on 3 sides and the bottom of the tank. Glass is just not a good insulator and you'll end up losing alot of heat out of the sides. The insulation is pink or white, and not very attractive, but you can get patterned contac paper(shelf paper, it's sticky) and cover the insulation board pieces.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

I would also suggest you get some of the 3/4" foam insulation board to put on 3 sides and the bottom of the tank. Glass is just not a good insulator and you'll end up losing alot of heat out of the sides. The insulation is pink or white, and not very attractive, but you can get patterned contac paper(shelf paper, it's sticky) and cover the insulation board pieces.

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yes, i will def. do that.