incubation techniques

i have use the old style i guess you could call it with vermiculite and perlite and it has worked and is time tested. but i'm would like to know what other techniques there are and how they work.

I use the substrateless method and love it. Eggs stay completely hydrated and no risk of too much or too little water or it drying out over time. :)

if you could give more info on this method.

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

I use the substrateless method and love it. Eggs stay completely hydrated and no risk of too much or too little water or it drying out over time. :)

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I believe the substrateless incubation involves no direct contact between substrate and eggs, similiar to what Becky has going on... http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...890#post567890

I think the perlite is only used to control sloshing of the water, not as an actual substrate per se.

I have gone with the vermiculite substrate myself, but I've only got the one clutch and seem to be doing great on it. :D

yeah i saw that post thats what brought this thread on i wish to know more info and is one better then the other.

That I'm not sure. I believe that the substrateless incubation takes more of the guess work out since you are not worried about the moisture levels of the vermic/perlite. I don't know that one is better, but I don't have any experience with it so I can't say.

I just know I'd like trip and slosh water all over my eggs, so that particular method made me VERY nervous. I am not graceful.... :rolleyes: Although I know a few of the members have had great success with it, so hopefully they will comment on their experience.

Also, if you are worried about substrate, give Hatchrite a try. It supposedly does not require any water addition or anything special. Just take it right out of the bag. It got 2 thumbs from plenty big guys who have seen it.

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Originally Posted by gncz73

yeah i saw that post thats what brought this thread on i wish to know more info and is one better then the other.

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Basically Christie is right...this method takes the guess work out of making sure the vermiculite is mixed correctly. It also removes the chance of it drying out prematurely. Essentially, it is water (with peralite added so it doesn't slosh around when moved or opened...may not be needed based on how your incubator is setup. In my case I have to move the egg boxes to open them so I needed the peralite), over the water is light egg crate (usually held up with PVC posts...or something else supportive). Then the eggs are placed on top. So no direct moisture is touching the eggs but yet they are in a 100% humid environement.

As for it vs. the traditional way I have no experience I have always done it this way. I had my first BP clutch this year and but have had several other animals hatched this way in the past.

If you have a specific question let me know.

i have use the old mixing method and have always had good luck with it but i have been interested in trying this new method. so thats all there is to that new method the incubator is set up the same.

I'm not a fan of trying new things with my eggs when I have a great tried and true method.

Here is what I do so that I don't have any guess work:

1. I use a 6 quart iris tub, I put it on a scale to zero the scale out.

2. I put in 500 grams of vermiculite (make sure that is dry vermiculite, the red bags from home depot often have moisture in them, open those bags and dump them into a large tub a week or so before you need it and allow it to air dry).

3. I then add 500 grams of water, just adding water until the scale reaches 1000

4. I then gather up my eggs place them in tub and then put the entire scale back onto the scale. I record this weight right on the tub tag along with the clutch info.

This number, say 1600 grams (500 grams vermiculite, 500 grams water and 600 grams for the eggs). I then have (along with the majority of friends) have egg maintenance Thursdays. We all remember to call each-other on Thursdays to remind each one of us to do our egg maintenance.

This consists of pulling each tub out of the incubator and weighing it. On average in my incubator each tub looses around 20 grams of weight. This is not coming from the vermiculite or the eggs, only thing is the water. I then simply add 20 grams of water, close the tub and don't look at it again until next Thursday.

I do this each week the eggs are cooking up until the last two weeks of incubation where I simply just don't add any more water to allow them to cave in a bit.

Very very simple, 100% accurate unless you cannot multiply by 2 in the beginning when trying to figure out the amount of water to add.

Let me know if you have any questions.

The no-substrate method is interesting, but I have always thought that suspending an egg in the air more or less would leave them more prone to temperature fluctuations as opposed to being half buried in a large thermal mass that would keep things more stable.

I've seen a lot of eggs hatching with that method - ball pythons, chondros, etc.. so it must not be that much of an issue.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

The no-substrate method is interesting, but I have always thought that suspending an egg in the air more or less would leave them more prone to temperature fluctuations as opposed to being half buried in a large thermal mass that would keep things more stable.

I've seen a lot of eggs hatching with that method - ball pythons, chondros, etc.. so it must not be that much of an issue.

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It is actually just the opposite. The vermiculite mass is is too stable where the air above flucutates whenever you open the container...with the non-substrate method the air all around the egg is consistent. It also makes sure that the humidity provided to the egg is consistent at 100% on all sides....where as with the vermiculite water leaches from it to the air (hence neil adding 20 grams a week)

But since both methods have been used with great success I don't think anyone could say one is better than the other. I personally just felt there was more room for human (mine) error with using vermiculite.:)

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

It is actually just the opposite. The vermiculite mass is is too stable where the air above flucutates whenever you open the container...with the non-substrate method the air all around the egg is consistent. It also makes sure that the humidity provided to the egg is consistent at 100% on all sides....where as with the vermiculite water leaches from it to the air (hence neil adding 20 grams a week)

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Just for fun:

Box A has eggs sitting half-buried in vermiculate in an 88 degree box.

Box B has eggs sitting on egg crate with all sides exposed to the air.

Both boxes are opened, and what you are saying is that the eggs sitting half-buried in a solid thermal mass will lose heat faster than the eggs in box B that have all sides exposed to the now room-temperature air?

I use vermic in sealed egg boxes ... going on 11 years now ... have never had a problem ... it works well for me so I wouldn't dream of changing a thing. I never loose a droplet of water ... if I had to constantly add water to my egg boxes I'd never get out of here at the end of the day!!! :rofl:

I really don't understand the big deal ... like vermic is "bad" or something ... give me a break ... as long as the eggs hatch, who cares? Right? Do what works for you and be excited for other people that are sharing your passion doing it "their way".

Just my $0.02.

ROCK ON! :D

-adam

adam, you know i like these boxes/glass right? :D


there's some good karma hear!!:rockon:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/DSCN0670.JPG



vaughn

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Just for fun:

Box A has eggs sitting half-buried in vermiculate in an 88 degree box.

Box B has eggs sitting on egg crate with all sides exposed to the air.

Both boxes are opened, and what you are saying is that the eggs sitting half-buried in a solid thermal mass will lose heat faster than the eggs in box B that have all sides exposed to the now room-temperature air?

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No what I said was that the portion of the eggs of box B that is in vermiculite will have a slightly higher temp in the vermiculite vs. the open air. Vermiculite will hold the temp longer vs the air...so in essence you will have a temp difference when the box is open...I have no idea how much that is...and like I said since people have had success with both methods it pry doesn't really matter. :D

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I really don't understand the big deal ... like vermic is "bad" or something ... give me a break ... as long as the eggs hatch, who cares? Right? Do what works for you and be excited for other people that are sharing your passion doing it "their way".
-adam

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Who is saying Vermic is bad?

I am with you...both ways will hatch eggs so do what works for you. The original poster was just asking about different ways to do it. :rockon:

hey i like to learn new things and i was just wandering about both methods or any more there may be. not which is better or worse just everyones likes and dislikes