incubator will be built :)

Here are the key ingredients; thanks to Reptile Basics, they are now here safe and sound. I have either a plastic cooler, a styro one, or an apartment fridge that Mark might get by tomorrow.. yay!

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...es/flexxee.jpg

Awesome :rockon:


Can't wait to see pictures of how it turns out. If you have any questions while building it just shoot me a PM more than happy to help. :)

Thanks :)
The problem thus far is, the place I wanted to put it in at home, is not going to work b/c the outlet in the wall is only two-pronged :( I am going to have to rearrange a bit.. I don't think that one of those adapters would be safe to convert it to two-prong?
What is the best placement of the FX in the cooler; around the walls or on the floor of it?
I bleached out the two egg boxes and plan on going substrateless.

Here is what i came up with so far.. I bought the 3' of FW assuming we were getting a fridge, but if I could use the cooler.. is this an OK setup, or is the heat too lopsided being on only one side in a small area like this? it has a lid of course.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...cres/styyy.jpg

No don't do what you have in the picture.


Here is how I recommend you set it up.

Lay the flex in first (along the bottom and up the sides
Then put full water bottles in on top of the flex (just basic drinking water bottles) - these bottles will buffer the heat so the flex doesn't have to run as hot and risk hot spots.
Lay something on top of the bottles to act as a shelf (you can the light grate from Home Depot (like you are using in the substrate less egg boxes)
Then you set the egg boxes on the grate and there you go a simple setup.

Set it up and see how well it holds temps...also move the temp probe around to several locations to make sure you don't have hot spots...if so you will need to add a fan.

Let me know if you have questions.

Sounds cool; I actually wanted to put the FW underneath but wasn't sure I could.. I am going to monkey with it and i will post an updated pic. :)

Here are pictures of mine...it isn't currently turned on so no eggs but it is close to what you are going to be doing.


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...s/IMG_0695.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...s/IMG_0697.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...s/IMG_0696.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...s/IMG_0698.jpg

I take it the more water to act as a buffer the more stable the temperatures or is there a cut off point beyond witch there is little effect?



dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

I take it the more water to act as a buffer the more stable the temperatures or is there a cut off point beyond witch there is little effect?



dr del

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The more volume that you can take up in the box the more stable the temps. I have a lot of bottles in the pictures because the first time I used it (this year) I only had 1 clutch...I should have 3 more this time so I will end up removing some the bottles.

This setup never moved from 88.7 degrees the entire incubation period.

here goes..

without tubs:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...rigbottled.jpg
With.. tubs do not have water or perlite (to prevent sloshing) in them yet. They are air/water tight. Think I should just use 2-liter bottles? Seems like too much dead air..
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...es/rigged1.jpg
Tub.. I am getting a third brick to break into pieces to put alongside the one in there, to add more support as the plastic grid is a tad flexy. The water will not touch the grid. Your thoughts?
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s.../riggedtub.jpg

Looks good...the only area of concern I would have is the flex that comes up the sides and is very close to the egg boxes this could cause hot spots inside the egg baskets. Try running the setup for a day and see what happens...or just cut a foot off the flex so is sits mainly at the bottom.


As for the egg baskets...they look great. Just a note I used PVC cut and zip tied to the grate to keep it from moving.

I also dont think you need that much flex watt to heat that little space. I have one more feet than you have in a big upright freezer. If you are going to keep it that small of an distance between your flex and the egg containers I would use some sort of deflection.. As Sean said, you could use water bottles or something so you dont have direct line of heat on the backs of the containers.

I also use water jugs in my incubator, they act like little heat storage tanks. They really help balance out your hot and cold spots in the incubator.

hope this helps

EDIT: just say the last picture.. the water bottles look great.. just cut down on the flex watt. once it is stabalized you will not need that much

Ok a couple more thoughts.


Yes, you can use 2-liters if they fit better...they would also raise the egg baskets further away from the flex.

Also, since this is the top load cooler whenever you open it you will lose a lot of heat really quickly. I recommend you cut a square hole in the lid of the cooler and silicone a piece of plexi...like a window so you don't have to take the lid off except for once a week for air exchange.

Cool.. I will trim the FW fown a foot. I am glad that I bought too much and not too little; I plan on rigging my BP rack tubs with it, so that foot will come in handy eventually :) This is after the incubation season; not running it on with the incubator for the snake tub, I did not want to confuse anyone :)

Just want it to go on record this thread was very educational for me, may have helped others, but I def found it to be VERY useful. I wont be breeding for a few more years, but until this thread, I was VERY confused on how to setup a simple yet effective incubator, this at least gives a very nice starting point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnakeEyes

Just want it to go on record this thread was very educational for me, may have helped others, but I def found it to be VERY useful. I wont be breeding for a few more years, but until this thread, I was VERY confused on how to setup a simple yet effective incubator, this at least gives a very nice starting point.

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Snake eyes,

you really can get away with not doing much for an incubator as long a stemps dont fluctate to much.. If you ever need help dont hesitate to ask. As you can see they can be built very economically

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnakeEyes

Just want it to go on record this thread was very educational for me, may have helped others, but I def found it to be VERY useful. I wont be breeding for a few more years, but until this thread, I was VERY confused on how to setup a simple yet effective incubator, this at least gives a very nice starting point.

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Its always good to have some extra FW around. I am finding uses for mine all the time:sunny:.. keep us posted on the temp when you fire her up.

You will need a small window for sure to help decrease the peek factor

Help! Call me an idiot, but i set it up with the probe on the FW; it is 88 but the inside of the tub is only 72! So do I put the probe of the t-stat right into the tub itself? Sorry if this is stupid, but I have never done this before.

fotos:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...incontable.jpg

room temp before putting probe in Inc.. yes I forgot at first, heh.. :O probe of accurite Was in tub, explaining the disparity in temps.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...res/thermo.jpg

lidded
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s.../theewhole.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Help! Call me an idiot, but i set it up with the probe on the FW; it is 88 but the inside of the tub is only 72! So do I put the probe of the t-stat right into the tub itself? Sorry if this is stupid, but I have never done this before.

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If you notice in my pictures my thermostat probe is hanging between the 2 eggs boxes (on the outside of the egg baskets).

You will get a lot of opinions on this aspect... mine is you place it between or near your egg baskets...this way you are warming to the ambient temperature and not the flexwatt temp. This way once stable (hence the need for the water) the flex won't need to overheat to reach a certain temp.

Also, it will take several hours for the inside and outside egg box temps to be the same.

Thanks; I moved it. It Is ok that the bottles are sitting right atop the FW? I guess it would be, seeing as it is sandwitched between tub and shelf in a rack..

I like the whole water bottle setup, but do the eggs need some kind of moisture they will get from vermiculite and perlite? I s it to dry using water bottles? Just a question, I was curious about the whole thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

It Is ok that the bottles are sitting right atop the FW?

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No issue with the bottles once up and running the flex doesn't really get that hot...just enough to keep the water in the bottles at 88 degrees (or whatever you incubate at).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crisstyle21

I like the whole water bottle setup, but do the eggs need some kind of moisture they will get from vermiculite and perlite? I s it to dry using water bottles? Just a question, I was curious about the whole thing.

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Crisstyle21,
you still wet the vermic/perlite. The water bottles just act as a heat barrier and heat holding tank. They just help level out the temps

I have the probe near the boxes; it is still at 75 degrees; I am thinking it just needs time to heat up?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I have the probe near the boxes; it is still at 75 degrees; I am thinking it just needs time to heat up?

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I assume the 75 is inside the egg boxes? If so then Yes it will take several hours to heat up...you can speed it up by opening the lids of the egg boxes (just for now...close them once they heat up)

I have the probe in one of the boxes; is his a humidity issue? it is at 80 now! getting there..
Great suggestion there; I opened the boxes for now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I have the probe in one of the boxes; is his a humidity issue? it is at 80 now! getting there..

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Hard to know yet if it is a humidity issue. When I set mine up I had too low humidity in the incubator vs the egg boxes and as a result I was getting a lot of condensation inside the egg boxes. I fixed this by adding a dish of water (see the photos) on the bottom...but my boxes weren't air tight like yours. I would let it all get up to temp (with the perilite and water in the egg boxes) and see how it shakes out. Then we can adjust anything that is out of wack still.

Sounds cool; it went up two degrees. Unf, I need to go to bed soon; I hope that overnight, it will stabilize. I am glad that I have ths Helix; it gies me a ton of peace of mind. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Sounds cool; it went up two degrees. Unf, I need to go to bed soon; I hope that overnight, it will stabilize. I am glad that I have ths Helix; it gies me a ton of peace of mind. :)

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Glad it is coming together so well. Once all setup you should have no more issues with errant temp spikes and you will be hatching out some awesome babies real soon. :)

Thanks; I am so happy now. I need to say, building an incubator is So much easier than I thought it was; I was so nervous about it.. I can't even believe I thought of re-using that hovabator after it spiked like that! Someone kick me for that.. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I need to say, building an incubator is So much easier than I thought it was; I was so nervous about it.. I can't even believe I thought of re-using that hovabator after it spiked like that! Someone kick me for that.. lol

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I have been trying to tell you that from the begining..:rolleye2: Glad all is working out. keep us posted

Things are mostly good this morning; this thermostat is completely awesome :) But the degrees inside the tubs are still lower than right outside of them.. the inc says 88 but then it is only 86 in the tubs. Should I just put the probe right into one of the tubs? I had it outside of them and in between them overnight. Is humidity an issue with the probe? I do not want to wreck it..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Things are mostly good this morning; this thermostat is completely awesome :) But the degrees inside the tubs are still lower than right outside of them.. the inc says 88 but then it is only 86 in the tubs. Should I just put the probe right into one of the tubs? I had it outside of them and in between them overnight. Is humidity an issue with the probe? I do not want to wreck it..

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Do you have water (and perilite) in the egg boxes yet? If not I would go ahead and set them up. Also, if you haven't already done so close the lids to trap the heat and humidity in.

The delta is only 2 degrees which is good for just setting it up. Before you change the probe location give it till the end of the day...we need to make sure the water bottles are up to temp. If you want to speed it up you could add a fan to circulate the air...some warm air may be getting stuck where the probe is and giving you a false reading.

Again personally I wouldn't put the thermostat probe in the egg baskets - it will mean outside the egg baskets would be hotter trying to reach the probe (make sense?). But to answer your question the humdity won't harm the probe.

ok; I get it :)
I put water into the boxes but no perlite yet (gotta get some today.)

So excited for you girl!!! :D :carrot: :D

Thanks :)
The temp in the boxes is 86, and the outer incubator temp is 88.. we are getting there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Thanks :)
The temp in the boxes is 86, and the outer incubator temp is 88.. we are getting there.

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What do you have the outer temp set to (the helix)?

Something else I see with my Accurite thermometers is that they aren't all exact (one will read +1 degree while another will read -1 degree)...if you have another thermometer you might try putting it in the box just to see if they read the same thing.


Just an idea :)

I have the helix set to 88.

I see a lot of condensation in the tubs now :( Is there a way to get rid of this without making it unsafely humid in the incubator for the FW?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I see a lot of condensation in the tubs now :( Is there a way to get rid of this without making it unsafely humid in the incubator for the FW?

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Sounds like you have the same issue I had. I assume the humidity in the egg boxes is near 100% what is the humidity in the incubator?

The only way I know how to fix it is to increase the humidity in the incubator. I only had to increase it to 50-60% and that fixed my isses which isn't an issue for the flexwatt.

You could remove some of the water bottles and put an open dish with water under the grate to increase the humidity (that is what I did)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

Sounds like you have the same issue I had. I assume the humidity in the egg boxes is near 100% what is the humidity in the incubator?

The only way I know how to fix it is to increase the humidity in the incubator. I only had to increase it to 50-60% and that fixed my isses which isn't an issue for the flexwatt.

You could remove some of the water bottles and put an open dish with water under the grate to increase the humidity (that is what I did)

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Condensation has nothing to do with a difference in humidity between the interior of the tub and the interior of the incubator.

Temperature differences is what causes condensation to occur.

Condensation occurs on surfaces that are significantly cooler than the temperature of the air which is holding the water vapor.

Water is condensing inside the tub because it is warmer inside the egg box than inside the whole of the incubator.

I wonder what I should do to remedy this; a fan would be very hard to fit into there. Airholes?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Condensation has nothing to do with a difference in humidity between the interior of the tub and the interior of the incubator.

Temperature differences is what causes condensation to occur.

Condensation occurs on surfaces that are significantly cooler than the temperature of the air which is holding the water vapor.

Water is condensing inside the tub because it is warmer inside the egg box than inside the whole of the incubator.

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Actually it can...while you are right for one way condenstation is created in this case it is unlikely there is that much of a temp difference between the inside/outside of the container (her last reading was only 2 degrees).

Condensation can also occur when air has reached saturation levels (like inside a sealed egg box) and it trying to equalize with the outside air (it also mostly likely means her boxes are not completely air tight). If you equalize the humidity the condensation will also lessen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

Actually it can...while you are right for one way condenstation is created in this case it is unlikely there is that much of a temp difference between the inside/outside of the container (her last reading was only 2 degrees).

Condensation can also occur when air has reached saturation levels (like inside a sealed egg box) and it trying to equalize with the outside air (it also mostly likely means her boxes are not completely air tight). If you equalize the humidity the condensation will also lessen.

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If the egg box is sealed, there's no way that the air inside the box would "try to equalize" with the air outside of it.

Condensation is affected by differences in temperature.

Equalizing the TEMPERATURE is the only way to eliminate condensation, regardless of the relative humidity inside and outside of the box.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensation

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

If the egg box is sealed, there's no way that the air inside the box would "try to equalize" with the air outside of it.

Condensation is a affected by differences in temperature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensation

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From that same article

"or when the water vapor equilibrium in air, i. e. saturation humidity, has been exceeded. When water vapor condenses onto a surface, a net warming occurs on that surface."

This is also why I suggested the egg boxes aren't really sealed.

But I have no interest in arguing, I just wanted to help her...but be my guest since you are right.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

From that same article

"or when the water vapor equilibrium in air, i. e. saturation humidity, has been exceeded. When water vapor condenses onto a surface, a net warming occurs on that surface."

This is also why I suggested the egg boxes aren't really sealed.

But I have no interest in arguing, I just wanted to help her...but be my guest since you are right.:)

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I'm not trying to argue, just wanted to clear that up.

You're misinterpreting the quote above. Saturation humidity occurs when the air has absorbed all the water is can (based on the temperature of the air, warmer air can hold more water then cooler air, similar to warm water being able to dissolve more sugar) and the excess water vapor gathers on a surface. That has nothing to do with what you are saying...that a difference in humidity between the two chambers would cause condensation to occur...that's just not true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I'm not trying to argue, just wanted to clear that up.

You're misinterpreting the quote above. Saturation humidity occurs when the air has absorbed all the water is can (based on the temperature of the air, warmer air can hold more water then cooler air, similar to warm water being able to dissolve more sugar) and the excess water vapor gathers on a surface. That has nothing to do with what you are saying...that a difference in humidity between the two chambers would cause condensation to occur...that's just not true.

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yes it is true. Air will always try and equalize its pressure (drive partially by humidity) from an area of high consentration to one of low. Yes, if it hits a cold object water will "condense" out of the air and stick the surface...but even without a temp difference it will still "condense" while trying to equalize. This is most moticed in homes that have older windows.

As for the quote it is exactly as I am using it...the air in the boxes has reached saturation (all the moisture the air can hold - which increases the air pressure inside the box) it is now trying to equalize with the surrounding air and hence is causing condensation. I am not saying that a slight temp difference on the walls of the box hasn't caused some of what she is seeing but by increasing the humidity in the overall incubator will fix the issue.

But since we have different opinions what do you suggest to fix the issue?

She simply needs to equalize the temperatures inside and outside of the box. Those closer she gets to to that, the less condensation will take place.

I'd say to put a small 12 volt fan inside the incubator to keep the air moving around and equalize the temps.