cinnamon x cinnamon pastel= ?

I get confused with black pastels, cinnamon pastels, and cinnamons. What would I get if I cross a cinnamon pastel with a cinnamon? super cinny(all black)? Pewters? :confused: Thanks guys!
_Josh_

a cinnamon and a cinnamon pastel are the same snake(cinnamon or cinny is short for cinnamon pastel). When breed together, you get a super cinnamon pastel.

Now if you are talking about a cinnamon pastel x pastel.......then you would get pewters.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

I get confused with black pastels, cinnamon pastels, and cinnamons. What would I get if I cross a cinnamon pastel with a cinnamon? super cinny(all black)? Pewters? :confused: Thanks guys!
_Josh_

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All the same snakes different name or lines

Black Pastel X Pastel Jungle = Black Pewter
Black Pastel X Super Pastel Jungle = Silver Streak
Black Pastel X Black Pastel = Super Black Pastel

Cinnamon X Pastel Jungle = Pewter
Cinnamon X Super Pastel = Sterling
Cinnamon X Cinnamon = Super Cinnamon

black pastel is not the same morph of a different line, its a different morph all together

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Originally Posted by SUPERBALLS

black pastel is not the same morph of a different line, its a different morph all together

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http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...ack_pastel.asp

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The "Super Pastel Cinny" aka Sterling Ball is from the Graziani Cinny Line..........the "Super Pastel Black Pastel" aka Silver Streak is from the Black Pastel line............these two snakes are "night and day" in appearance.............so I would think between the differences in the Supers, Pewters and "Super Pastel x Cinny/ Black" it's safe to say that the lines should be considered to do different things. ( RDR blurp )

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ok so let me get this straight....cinnamon, and cinnamon pastels are the same thing. But Black Pastel is completely different?
_Josh_

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

ok so let me get this straight....cinnamon, and cinnamon pastels are the same thing. But Black Pastel is completely different?
_Josh_

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It all depends on who you talk to. Personally, I think they are the same thing but just different "lines". There are many, many lines of Cinnamons and Black Pastels. Some ugly Cinnies look almost like normals and others look very black and orange. Some Black Pastels look like an average Cinny, and of course the nice ones looke black and orange as well. It all depends on what the person wants to call them.

As far as people claiming that they are different, the only way to determine that would be to produce a super from a Black Pastel/Cinny then breed the super back to a normal to see if they get a combo of distinct looking Black Pastels and Cinnies similar to what was done with the Mojave and Lesser.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

ok so let me get this straight....cinnamon, and cinnamon pastels are the same thing. But Black Pastel is completely different?
_Josh_

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Yes...even though ralph davis says other wise I have seen many of the two and they look different and offspring comes out different so I believe they are different.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

ok so let me get this straight....cinnamon, and cinnamon pastels are the same thing. But Black Pastel is completely different?
_Josh_

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They look different but are the same this thread will help you understand better

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...light=cinnamon

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

They look different but are the same this thread will help you understand better

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...light=cinnamon

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That thread doesnt solve anything IMO. I want to see pictures of a Cinnamon and a Black Pastel together and a Silver Bullet and a Silver Streak together. It will clear up a lot of questions about the two.

From what I've seen, to me (although I'm not as experienced ad some others) they look like they are basically different lines. Kind of like Lemon Pastels are still pastels, just like graz or bell line. It looks to me that Cinnys and Black Pastels are basically like the difference between lemons and bell line. They're both pastel, just different lines so they look slightly different.

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

That thread doesnt solve anything IMO. I want to see pictures of a Cinnamon and a Black Pastel together and a Silver Bullet and a Silver Streak together. It will clear up a lot of questions about the two.

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No it won't. I can put two Lemon Pastels together that look completely different and you wouldn't be able to claim that they're different morphs.

Here's a test: Pick out which one is a Black Pastel and which is a Cinny...

Ball 1

http://www.superiorserpents.com/PubPics/ball1.jpg

Ball 2

http://www.superiorserpents.com/PubPics/ball2.jpg

Ball 3

http://www.superiorserpents.com/PubPics/ball3.jpg

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Originally Posted by xdeus

No it won't. I can put two Lemon Pastels together that look completely different and you wouldn't be able to claim that they're different morphs.

Here's a test: Pick out which one is a Black Pastel and which is a Cinny...

Ball 1

http://www.superiorserpents.com/PubPics/ball1.jpg

Ball 2

http://www.superiorserpents.com/PubPics/ball2.jpg

Ball 3

http://www.superiorserpents.com/PubPics/ball3.jpg

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Ball #1- Cinny
Ball #2- Black Pastel
Ball #3- Norm?
lol I'm bored, and just wanted to try my luck
*edit* I had to go by pattern by the way, I know that pastels such as lemons have very irregular patterns, then I assumed that the black pastel's pattering followed the same guidelines.

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Originally Posted by mricyfire

That thread doesnt solve anything IMO. I want to see pictures of a Cinnamon and a Black Pastel together and a Silver Bullet and a Silver Streak together. It will clear up a lot of questions about the two.

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Here is a pic of one of my adult cinnies (on the left) and one of my black pastels together. I don't have a Bullet or a Streak yet .. . . .

Can someone post a pic of a black pastel X cinnamon hatchling or a link to a pic of one?


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...Cini-Fonzi.JPG

great looking snakes! Love the stripe on that cinny!

Alice,
Here is a pic that I took in Daytona in 2004 of Brian Barcyzk's first black snake. It was from breeding a black pastel to a cinnamon. I think the supers all look the same to me. However, I don't know if antone has really looked hard at the difference between a black x black, cinny x cinny and a black x cinny. Maybe someone will do some kind of comparison pic one day.
p.s. the super in the pic is in shed.
http://www.baileyreptiles.com/images/gallery/ep9l.jpg

Hope that is what you were looking for,

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Alice,
Here is a pic that I took in Daytona in 2004 of Brian Barcyzk's first black snake. It was from breeding a black pastel to a cinnamon. I think the supers all look the same to me. However, I don't know if antone has really looked hard at the difference between a black x black, cinny x cinny and a black x cinny. Maybe someone will do some kind of comparison pic one day.
p.s. the super in the pic is in shed.
http://www.baileyreptiles.com/images/gallery/ep9l.jpg

Hope that is what you were looking for,

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Thanks Tim! It looks like the cinny X black pastel hatchling looks very similar to the cinny X cinny or the black pastel X black pastel hatchling.

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Originally Posted by Holbeird

great looking snakes! Love the stripe on that cinny!

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Thanks! I like her too.

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Originally Posted by Alice

Here is a pic of one of my adult cinnies (on the left) and one of my black pastels together. I don't have a Bullet or a Streak yet .. . . .

Can someone post a pic of a black pastel X cinnamon hatchling or a link to a pic of one?


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...Cini-Fonzi.JPG

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This helps...me anyways :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Purrrfect9

Ball #1- Cinny
Ball #2- Black Pastel
Ball #3- Norm?
lol I'm bored, and just wanted to try my luck
*edit* I had to go by pattern by the way, I know that pastels such as lemons have very irregular patterns, then I assumed that the black pastel's pattering followed the same guidelines.

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Very good! It's actually #1 Cinny, #2 Black Pastel, and #3 Cinny. I just wanted to show how they can look very similar and aren't as distinct as many people seem to believe. All three of those even look different than my BHB Cinny.

how do you all know the difference between morphs that are so similar?obviously when you breed them you can tell sometimes by the babies but looking at the actual snake are there ways to see?