Well time for liquid food

we are taking our 7 month old ball tho the vat today to get her some liquid food, she still refuses to eat.. we got he on jan 8th and she ate fine that entire month,, then she went into shed end of jan beginning of feb and she has only ate once since feb 10th.. Only day she ate march 20th.... when we got her she weighed 264 grams, got her up to 300 by end of jan. now she is down to 212 grams..... so we gave her enough time to try to eat...

Awww! What is the liquid food made of, and what's that process like? I just can't believe how much they can endure! Best of luck to you and your little one! Will you keep us updated?

I don't think you need to feed that animal a liquid diet. I will explain in a bit, but I do have a question for you. You say you got your snake up to 300 grams, when this weight was taken, did he have any meals in him? If, so, then differnce between his empty weight then, and his 212 gram empty weight now might not have been so great. Now, I would assume that a liquid diet would not be put in a bowl and the snake allowed to drink it at will. In other words, you will be forcing the liquid into the animals stomach some kind of way. This is a very stressful event for an animal, especially one that you know has eaten in the past. If your animal has taken meals before, he will do it again, assuming something in his habitat hasn't changed, or is not correct (i.e. other husbandry issue). My opinion would be to try every feeding method you can, before you attempt this, try live, pre-killed and frozen thawed mice and rats before you force feed a liquid diet. I have a female that I got about 2 years ago. She weighed about 900 grams when we got her. She was treated for internal parasites and decided that she didn't want to eat for 55 weeks. Needless to say she lost about 250 grams. After being persistent and never giving up on her, she now weighs 1700 grams and eats mice like a champ (she won't touch a rat). One more story. I have a friend that has an Albino male that is about 6 years old that for the last 3 years will only eat four small rats a year. About every three months he will eat, and he shows no signs of sickness or weight loss. I also would like to add that he breeds like a champ. With all of that said, I don't think that after 3 months of fasting that you should consider your snake to be out of the ordinary and need to resort to such drastic measures. Hope that helps,

I agree with Tim here - force feeding your snake a liquid diet is likely to cause more harm than good.


I'd work on husbandry issues first (have you tried setting her up in a small 12 quart tub with two small hides for example) before taking such drastic measures.

My Kashmire fasted for 8 solid months and was about 300 grams at the time.

i agree but she has no strenghth like she did, she is weak, she just got over a month of ri treatment, and her back bone sticks way out... and her girth is like a flat triangle... we tried everything..

please talk this over with your vet extensively before you try force feeding of any kind. there is certainly more that you can try before resorting to force feeding. the stress and possible internal damage that you can cause from force feeding may well be worse than her not eating for a little while longer.

there are many tricks and things you can try to get your girl eating again. i don't believe that you are not at the point that you need to force feed yet. the fact that you just got done treating for an ri could be a lot of the reason why she hasn't eaten--a sick snake often won't eat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KIBPLOVER

she just got over a month of ri treatment

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Bingo! Your snake's been sick, most likely had numerous injections to get rid of that RI, would be stressed at this point and stressed snakes do not eat. Follow up with your vet and make sure first off that the RI is completely and utterly gone. This will likely involve another culture to confirm this to be the case. You said she ate on March 20th then I'm assuming the RI was diagnosed and the treatments began. It's only April 27th therefore barely over a month since the last successful feed (if I'm getting the timeline right here).

Personally I'd set this snake up in a very small enclosure, with temps and humidity bang on, plain newspaper substrate, appropriate hides and a small water dish. I'd put the snake's enclosure in the quietest area of your home where there is little foot traffic or noise/vibrations. Add in a bunch of scrunched up newspaper which will encourage the snake to feel safe and unexposed.

Typical small BP enclosure (you can even go smaller)....
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...MuirnesTub.jpg

With the newspaper added in....
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ickTopView.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ckSideView.jpg

Acu-Rite to properly monitor temps and humidity (see it set up in the first photo)....
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...g/Acu-Rite.jpg

Typical hides we use for the 06 babies....just a small dark cereal bowl from the dollar store....they love being scunched in there...many will use the hole to hunt from....snakes that feel safe and secure are more likely to eat....
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...chlingHide.jpg

Let the poor thing destress with little to no interaction with you for a week or two, just very basic cage maintainence, water changes, no handling or attempts to feed. Then pick a night after dark, pre-scent the room with her favorite prey and try a feed. Make sure the prey is not overly large for her, better to start small and let her digestive process kick back in slowly.

That's what I'd do if she were mine (along with another vet consult of course to medically assess her and check that the RI is truly gone).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Bingo! Your snake's been sick, most likely had numerous injections to get rid of that RI, would be stressed at this point and stressed snakes do not eat. Follow up with your vet and make sure first off that the RI is completely and utterly gone. This will likely involve another culture to confirm this to be the case. You said she ate on March 20th then I'm assuming the RI was diagnosed and the treatments began. It's only April 27th therefore barely over a month since the last successful feed (if I'm getting the timeline right here).

Personally I'd set this snake up in a very small enclosure, with temps and humidity bang on, plain newspaper substrate, appropriate hides and a small water dish. I'd put the snake's enclosure in the quietest area of your home where there is little foot traffic or noise/vibrations. Add in a bunch of scrunched up newspaper which will encourage the snake to feel safe and unexposed.

Typical small BP enclosure (you can even go smaller)....
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...MuirnesTub.jpg

With the newspaper added in....
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ickTopView.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ckSideView.jpg

Acu-Rite to properly monitor temps and humidity (see it set up in the first photo)....
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...g/Acu-Rite.jpg

Typical hides we use for the 06 babies....just a small dark cereal bowl from the dollar store....they love being scunched in there...many will use the hole to hunt from....snakes that feel safe and secure are more likely to eat....
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...chlingHide.jpg

Let the poor thing destress with little to no interaction with you for a week or two, just very basic cage maintainence, water changes, no handling or attempts to feed. Then pick a night after dark, pre-scent the room with her favorite prey and try a feed. Make sure the prey is not overly large for her, better to start small and let her digestive process kick back in slowly.

That's what I'd do if she were mine (along with another vet consult of course to medically assess her and check that the RI is truly gone).

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to frankykeno again.

awesome post jo. kiblover, once you have done what jo suggested we can give you more pointers and tips on getting your snake to eat. :)

My 8 month old went through a fast after a stressful month. He had gotten him self stuck and turned around in a resin log with only one possible exit and a couple smaller holes that he could just see out of. He was in their for over a month and ended up shedding inside. But then still wasnt able to get out and you could tell he was trying cause every couple of hours he'd be in a new spot poking around the smaller holes. I ended up having to carefully break him out one small piece at a time and he got pretty freaked out. Waited 2 more weeks before i even tried to feed him and he didnt strike. After 3 more tries and pray half the size that he was getting before this all started he started eating again like a champ. Im thinking maybe the stress of the RI injections and the shed was alot in one month. One thing i've learned from this forum is to be patient and make small changes.

you've been given some great info in this thread. i agree with it all.

one thing i have read on this forum in the past is that some vets, even though they treat herps... it's not something they know a lot about... so before you allow your vet to start your snake on a liquid diet, please be sure of the 'knowledge level' your vet has acquired.

here is her tub for last 4 weeks...

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2713/babytubkp4.jpg

those hides are not secure at all. get something more like what jo described--something like a bowl turned upside down with a hole cut or melted into it. it should be just big enough for the snake to fit into but not roomy. you should have one of these on each end of the enclosure.

is that blue bowl a humid hide? it looks way too wet--the moss should just be moist, but not so wet that you can squeeze water out of it. also, turn it upside down so that the clear part is on the bottom so it will be more secure feeling.

actually moss was dry the day of this pic... but i have one of these bowls in 3 tubs and they will sit in them for days.....

A nice start, just perhaps a few "tweaks" I'd suggest. Pull out the big bowl and just put in a small, easy to clean and heavy water dish. I use small white rammikans I get from Target for the babies (you get 4 for about $6.00). I also have some very small heavy ceramic pet dishes that you can find in pretty much any pet store. That will free up the space needed for two identical hides. What you've got now is basically one hide and the half log hides aren't that great for ball pythons.

Basically, think like a small shy nocturnal snake. First off, you are just as much a prey item than a predator when you are small so hiding is a way to perserve your existance. With a half log the snake is never really protected in it's hide as there are two entrances to "guard" from predators approaching. I would suggest two identical small, tight, dark bowls or the plastic spill pans from planter pots with appropriate small entrances cut into them. One on each side so the snake can properly thermoregulate (plus utilizing the newspaper trick so it can move hide to hide in "safety").

Is the other thing a humid hide? With a tub normally you shouldn't need to have that in there taking up space as tubs keep a nice 50-60% humidity. Generally if you feel you need a humid hide you can just add it in at the first sign of impending shed. There's an excellent shed write-up/pictorial here for you to review.

Other than what your vet can do medically for this snake (was it checked for internal parasites when the RI was going on?), your job as it's owner is to give it the best environment that will encourage a strong feeding response. With a few small tweaks I think you are almost there. :)

ok we will wait a couple more weeks... i willk add more hides this evening,,,,

The last thing I do want to add though is remember in the end this is your snake, you are the only one that can see and has hands on with this snake. If you feel it needs to see the vet for a followup, to make sure the RI has completely gone or to check for any parasite load this is your call. We can only suggest husbandry changes, etc. but in the end if this snake needs further medical intervention or is going downhill fast, then a call to an experienced herp vet will be the way to go. Unfortunately, over a computer, none of us can really help you with knowing when that is appropriate.