I Swear I'm Getting to Hate Mice!

Okay yet once again I've failed miserably at breeding mice for our mouse eating ball pythons. One group never bred well, the other group was females I bought preggo. They ate their dang babies on me! I ended up being totally disgusted and feeding them all off so I'm back to the weekly trudge to the pet store to pick through their feeder mice.

I'm determined though to get this right. I've always had an easy time of it with the rats so this is really bugging my hiney. :mad: I think part of it is I'm treating mice like rats and that may be causing these problems.

So my new plan is to buy just albino mice. I swear those fancy ones didn't know how to breed, they just sat around, ate and looked pretty! I need about 10 to 12 adult feeder mice per week plus freezing a few litters at the young adult size for Emi the milksnake who only takes f/t. The mice must live in the same room as the rats as there's no where else for them. It can be a fairly high traffic area as I tend the rats daily. I've been using small glass tanks for the mice and do provide them with hides and lots of ripped up telephone book pages to scurry around under.

So I'm thinking to put the mice in those dark heavy plastic cement tubs (will make my own fine mesh lids of course). Bill mentioned that they do well in a less exposed enclosure. Now how do I get water to them. The little mouse water bottle spigot could be fed through a small hole in the side but will the little boogerheads enlarge that hole and get loose? If I do a couple of these tubs (one for the breeders, one for growing out) and just tuck them away in the furthest corner of the room will that be less stressful for mice? Should I be feeding enough food for a whole week so I have less interaction with them? The rats seem to like me checking on them daily, the mice just go..."omg it's the human! quick eat a baby or something!!!!"

I'm thinking to buy 1 adult male mouse and 6 adult female mice and setting them up in one of those cement tubs. Will that be okay or way too many? I figure if they still eat babies I'd get at least some for feeders. I've also heard that 1:6 or 1:8 seems a good ratio for mice.

I cannot believe how difficult mice are compared to rats! :mad:

I'm right there with ya, Jo! I've never bred rats, but the mice are frustrating me to no end.

I do have mine in dark enclosures with a mesh opening on top. Right now I have 3 different tubs with 3 different arrangements of mice in them, as an experiment to see if I can get *any* breeding done. Out of 5 recent litters, I have 2 tubs with one baby each left alive, and one tub with 2 babies in it. GAH!!!!!

I do have water bottles on the tubs, only once did I have a mouse try to chew around the hole. We put packing tape around the hole, and no one has bothered it since then.

I am not such a fan of mice either...I have my colony set up as 1.3. I use 10 gallon tanks, all lined up on a shelf. I feed them once a week (an 8oz deli cup, filled with lab blocks). That food lasts them the whole week...I don't open the cages unless cleaning them. I also only leave the male in for a few days then feed them off..(This keeps the smell down). I have had sucess in the past with this formula...good luck!!

A couple of ideas.


Get younger mice and raise them up so they get used to you. I give my new mouse breeders to my daughter for the first couple of months. She gets them out every other day or so and lets them crawl around on her hands, shoulders, etc. This gives them a chance to interact and become used to people, they eat well and just enjoy.

Then I put them into a 10gal with 3 sides covered (makes the corners real dark) - introduce a male for about a week and then remove him...so far I have had zero deaths and the mice will let me stick my hand in their cage, touch their babies, etc (no difference then my rats)

Not to mention when my daughter checks on them they will actually leave their litters and climb up on her hand. :)

I think like Balls, mice get really stressed so you have to associate with them first.

Just an idea.

I did try that Sean with the first group of fancy mice. Darn things were hand tame, pretty much more interested in me than in making babies! I replaced the male thinking maybe he was a dud. They did then get preggers from the new male. I saw a big nest of maybe 20 pinks from 3 females. Next day or two...3 darn pinks left! Then later...they killed the daddy! So I waited a week or so. Put in a new male...found him dead and tossed in the corner the next morning! Rotten female mice. My two enclosures if numbers count were 1:3 and 0:2 (plus the unsexed snacks they ate :mad: ).

So I figure okay, no more handling so much. I get the two obviously pregger female mice from the pet store. I stay completely hands off with them. They have 11 babies between them. All seems well, the babies are old enough to be getting furred. Everything seems nifty keen. Then poof...babies start disappearing...one day it's down to one fat mouse...no babies...no other adult female!

Now there is no bloody way those mice are hungry or under nourished. I make my own mouse mix for the darn things just like I do for my rats and it's top quality stuff and not cheap either. They have a full fresh water bottle too. The rats thrive under my care, these mouse....grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

hhhmmmmmmmmm....that is so strange. I am not sure why some they are doing that. Sorry Joanna...I have no other ideas hopefully someone else that is having success will chime in :(

Is it possible that they smell or otherwise sense the rats nearby and feel threatened by them? :confuzd: You'd think mice would be an endangered species the way they seem so afraid to actually raise up any whole litters if the least little thing goes wrong in their environment.

Whose knows Jude. You would think they things need Prozac in their water bottles the way they freak over the littlest things! Well I'm hoping to keep them as far from the rats as possible and maybe the dark tubs will do the trick. They sure seem to work with others that have tons of mice breeding in racks. I need to go visit Kara with you and Robin and learn the mysterious "Path Of The Mice" I think. LOL

When I had mice I kept a 1.2 trio in a 2.5 gallon aquarium with screen lid. This size is comparable to the lab containers. I provided them with water and fed them lab block right on their bedding. I usually didn't have any problems with losing babies... I never handled them other than cleaning.

Maybe you will have better luck with a whole new group. Also, maybe you could look into the lab breeding tubs? I think they are designed for 1.2 groups.

The albino lab mice are by far the best breeders I have. I also have successful sets of "fancy" mice, but they have smaller litters on average. I run 1.5 per tub with mice and leave the male in with them, he seems to help with the babies etc. So 1.6 or 1.8 should be fine in larger tubs. My breeder tubs are large cat litter pans, but I have had success with the black concrete tubs. I know some people say the females will get pregnant right away again, but with over 650 breeder females I can tell you that is not a common occurence here. I have found that the mice seem to do a little better with the higher protein lab blocks, I was using Mazuri 6F with 16% protein and my litters started going down. I just recently switched to a product made by Kent that is 23% and my litters have gone back up again. I still use the Mazuri for my rats. I personally just use a water bottle for my mice and just have the nozzle sticking down into the tubs through the wire. I also only open their tubs once a week to clean and leave them alone the rest of the time.


If you need any pics of my setup or anything Jo just let me know. ;)

Sorry about the hard to read response, was trying to remember to cover everything. ;)

That reminds me, mine were "fancies."

Oh I'll be starting will all fresh ones. I fed off all the adults (mumbles more about rotten baby eatin rodents).

I've been told Bill to stick to the plain white ones and that's what I'll be getting once we are settled in the new place (we move in less than a week! :O ) I'll try those kitty litter pans as I'm wondering how they would reach up to the nozzle from the deeper cement mixing pans. Now I just have to design an escape proof mesh lid and I'll be set to go. Do you buy that particular lab block anywhere special or order it online? Is it smaller for mice or just the big regular lab block like I buy for my rats? When I make my dry mouse food mix I was breaking up the big lab blocks as they seemed so huge for the little mice.

I really think on reflection that I was bothering the mice far too much. I'm so used to rats that are highly social and daily feeding of them doesn't bother them at all. I think I'll make sure I'm only around the mice once per week for feeding/cleaning purposes and hopefully that will work better in combination with a darker enclosure.

Thanks for the help everyone! Keep the suggestions coming. I'm determined at least one snake in this house is going to eat a mouse bred here some day! LOL

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Do you buy that particular lab block anywhere special or order it online? Is it smaller for mice or just the big regular lab block like I buy for my rats? When I make my dry mouse food mix I was breaking up the big lab blocks as they seemed so huge for the little mice.

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I have purchased all my rodent block from local seed/feed stores. Anywhere that carries Purina cat/dog food can order the Mazuri brand for you. The 6F diet is great for the rats, but you might want to try one of the ones with 20% + for the mice. Mazuri does have higher protein foods in smaller bags, but they only sell the 16% in the 50lb bags. Thats why I switched to the Kent rodent feed for my mice. The Kent is in larger pieces, they are even bigger than the Mazuri. I have food holders built into the lids and highly recommend it for the mice. It keeps the food out of the bedding and makes them do a little work for their meals, keeps them stimulated. I use the 1/4" hardware cloth and they have no problem chewing the food through the wire. The adult mice can stand and eat it, the weanlings jump up on the wire and climb around to get to it. ;)

Where can you find the Kent feeds? I have a good number of feed stores around here that I can go to.

I have fancy breeder mice and I always get litters of at least 10 every month. I did have one female who would eat her babies and anyone elses but I started to add a very high protien dog kibble to the diet and she stopped.

I also handle my mice almost daily and am constanly messing with the babies. When you get more breeders get all of them at once, a colony doesn't like to have more added later on. If they eat their babies the first time around don't worry too much, give them another chance and they should get it right.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Where can you find the Kent feeds? I have a good number of feed stores around here that I can go to.

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You might be able to get it at any feed store, they make alot of different farm animal foods. It is manufactured in Muscatine, Iowa. The best I can say is to just call and ask them, I will take a picture of the bag and label and post it on here later. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Now I just have to design an escape proof mesh lid and I'll be set to go.

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Here is one I made from scraps for someone else, it would probably work alot better with 1" x 2" rather than the 2" x 2" I used. But you get the general idea, it has the feed holder built in to the lid. Then all you have to do is cut a small hole for the water bottle nozzle to fit through and rest it against the food. ;)

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g3...s/100_1283.jpg

Thank you Bill (my rodent hero! LOL), for that picture. I'll get this move over with then once we are settled in the new place I'll focus on restarting with the mice in a better designed setup. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Thank you Bill (my rodent hero! LOL), for that picture. I'll get this move over with then once we are settled in the new place I'll focus on restarting with the mice in a better designed setup. :)

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No problem. ;)

sorry to hear your having trouble Joanna. you want my fancy mice.. dang things are breeding machines!! she's had her second litter of 6 babies and is already pregnant again. And I'm constantly in their cage, checking on the food and water or as I pass the cage I peek in saying hello. I did purchase the parents when they were young though, and their cage is located in a high traffic area, so perhaps that has helped in them not being so skittish and not breeding or not eating their babies. hope your new batches work out better for you.

LOL - this post was from April. I know she's not breeding mice any longer.

how the heck do old posts get shoved to the front if no one posted on it. except silly me that is :D

Jo I understand where you come from it took me 2 months to really get started however since than my colony is very prolific 12-17 babies per litter.

oooops did not read till the end, this is an old post...........

I've never had any problems breeding rats, but mice? LMAO I've tried and tried and tried and tried again. I've never had any sucess at breeding them at all. I've just given up and my mouse eater snake I just buy a mouse for once a week.

Well I'm happy to report that my mouse breeding finally took off. We have a rack made out of the black cement tubs, and no more problems with baby eating. At any given time, I have 10+ litters of pinks.

I had 0 issues with breeding mice. I bought my first 1.2 trio, put them in a 10g tank, and 4 weeks later I had my first litter. I played with them like pets the whole time, and never had an issue with baby eating.

That's changed recently though... The same .2 are now eating the last of the latest litter after I had to put down their male on Saturday. They'll be feeders themselves after they drop their last litters (both are preggo now) and wean them off.

Well at least this is a good thread to resurrect.

We went through several sets of "Fancy" mice for breeders without success. Finally we picked up a trio with one of the females already pregnant, and they have been great breeders. The place we got them from had put the male in with the two females when they were just weaned. We tried that with two females from the first litter and an outside weanling male and it was a disaster, they ate every baby they had for 6 litters. I wish I knew what was different, maybe just luck?

Now our first ASF's are ready to have thier first litters, so hopefully we will not need mice much longer ;).

Neil

I had success. I bought a pregnant female that had already been knocked-up by her son (sounds gross, but it didn't negatively affect the babies.) Let her have the babies and get pregnant again; then I fed them all off. I am so glad that my remaining hatchlings are on adult mice now! It's so easy to buy 3 at the pet store, and let my breeding rats grow bigger for my BPs that need them.