Sick rats...what do you do with them?

Rats are prone to respiratory illness...I've kept rats since '98, so I'm well-educated about that. My question is, though, what do you do with the feeders that get sick?

I ask this because, what I do is treat them with the antibiotics they need, and they then become full-time "pet only" animals. I don't want to be overrun with rats, though I very much enjoy their company. The pet-onlies are held everyday by my sister, or myself, and are usually on a shoulder with either of us doing work around the house (non-snake related work, of course!!). I just fear that, since I have a soft spot for rats, we will soon be smothered with them.

They actually don't get sick that often, but my colony is rather large, so when one does, naturally, they get seperated, put in a "hospital" housing unit and treated...that's when we bond, and I just can't let them go.

Should I humanely euthanize any sickies in the future? Should I still use them as feeders? What do I do? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I don't think feeding sick food items to my snakes is a very good idea...should I just try setting the sickies up with new homes? I don't know what to do! I have too big a heart to let these guys (and gals) go after I've treated them. :(

A rat RI isn't going to affect your snakes in any way. I'd feed them, but obviously before giving them any meds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flagg

A rat RI isn't going to affect your snakes in any way. I'd feed them, but obviously before giving them any meds.

---

I don't keep em as pets so if one gets sick, I usualy euthanize then freeze before feeding off.

i feed them off if they get sick.

I like you have a very large collection of breeder rats and have been doing so for just as long.

Here is what I do - usually only 1-2 per winter will get sick.

My breeders who get sick - are treated and given "time off" till they are healthy again and back to breeding weight (assuming they lose some while recooping)

Feeder Size that get sick (I will make a call based on what the sickness appears to be) are feed off without meds.

I have 5 "pets" that are no longer breeders but any other retirees are euthanized.

Raven I'm actually surprised your rats are "prone" to RI's. I can't say I've seen very much of that at all with my colony. Could it be a need for a bit more ventilation, a different bedding choice or less rats per enclosure. Not saying you are doing anything wrong hon but sometimes just a little tweak here or there can make all the difference.

I did get a bit of rats with the sneezing and sniffling going on but they were recent pet store purchases when I ran short one time on small feeder rats. My permanent group though never seems to have any of these issues.

A predators job in the wild is to pick off the old, the sick and the infirm first. Leaving more resources available for the younger stronger members of the colony, thereby insuring the continued health and strength of the rest of the members of the herd.

Sounds like a good model to me, so I euthanize all of the old, sick or weaker members of my rodent colonies and freeze them for later consumption by my snakes.

I no longer consider any of my rodents as pets. I think that mindset was interfering with the overall production of my rodent colony as I was practicing 'survival of the cutest' rather then 'survival of the fittest'. I was selecting future breeders based on pleasing colors and personality rather then rapid growth, litter size and breeding ability.

Good point Mark. I think that I look at my colony a bit like a farmer does. I want a good producing animal, one that breeds and bears young appropriately, is physically healthy and has a sound temperment. Because the rats do come in colors and patterns I might determine I want a specific female of a litter versus one of her female littermates solely on her more pleasing look but as long as it's a genetically sound decision, then I consider that just a side benefit. I grew up with a lot of farmers and most smaller, family farms named their breed stock, cared for them extremely well but still quite happily sat down to eat steak from their offspring or a nice pork chop from "Suzie's" litter.

I have the "farmer" attitude with my rats as well. I tried handling certain ones as pets for a time, but I do not have enough time to devote to them like that, and they got wild after awhile.. now they are basically cattle. I can safely pick them up and move them from cage to holding tank for cleaning, etc. But they are not tame enough to be considered pets, and it helps me not to grow attached, when feeding-off time comes.
Great posts, MarkS and Jo :)

We have pets, which go to the vets, and feeders. So far, there haven't been any sick feeders, but a couple of our pets have been ill. Smudge had a stroke, and he got vet care but didn't recover. Butterscotch (appears to have) had a stroke, and died before I could get him in to the vet the next day.


Currently, our first feeder, then turned pet, Scabbers has been having breathing problems. Took him to the vet again today. He's had the baytril regimen, then doxycycline, and then doxy/prednisone, and was doing okay, but then would get bad again after the drugs were stopped. It appears he's actually got asthma. :( :tears: If the current plan, and occas. 02 in the tank doesn't work, I'll have him humanely euthanized. I've changed the types of bedding 3x, and the next is to regular shredded (junk mail-type) paper.

I don't know what we're going to do when he and Peekaboo die...probably bury them alongside Butterscotch by the back fence. We've already talked about get a "butterscotch" rosebush to plant. Even if they die of old age, I'd have a hard time feeding them off since they're pets.

If they die of old age I wouldn't consider feeding them off anyways. One, you'd probably find them hours after death and decomposition sets in pretty fast especially with summer weather and two, by the time a rat is that aged it really isn't in top condition anymore so why feed off a less than premium rodent.

I'm not looking forward to the day that our retired breeders pass on. They've been with us all their lives, have names and are completely hand tamed so we're pretty attached to the oldsters. They've all done such outstanding jobs producing feeders for us too. I wish I'd kept track of how many feeders that old Casanova has fathered but by the time it hit 300 plus I just lost track.

We'd retired old Nova but recently let him in with an experienced female and the old fella still had it in him. Another lovely litter produced and a rather old but smug Nova returned to the male only tub (probably is in there now braggin to the younger males about his continuing prowess LOL). He's a funny old rat. If the younger studs get to boxing and scuffling about he just trundles over and sits on them. Not bothering to smack anyone anymore, just sits on them until they settle down. He's still King of the Food Dish too. Nobody eats until old Nova has picked out his favorites from our homemade mix. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

Raven I'm actually surprised your rats are "prone" to RI's. I can't say I've seen very much of that at all with my colony. Could it be a need for a bit more ventilation, a different bedding choice or less rats per enclosure. Not saying you are doing anything wrong hon but sometimes just a little tweak here or there can make all the difference.

I did get a bit of rats with the sneezing and sniffling going on but they were recent pet store purchases when I ran short one time on small feeder rats. My permanent group though never seems to have any of these issues.

---

Same here Jo, I'm up to 110 breeding female rats and never have a problem with RI's. I believe ventilation is the best thing for large rodent colonies, instead of using air conditioning this year, we are using a ventilation method of pulling cool air in of the cool side (north side) and blowing warm air out on the warm side (south). We have a thermostat that turns the fan on when it reaches a certain temp (82) in the rodent room and shuts off when it gets down to 75 degrees.

Not only does it keep the rodents from overheating, it also constantly replaces the air in the room. Keeping the air quality much cleaner. Air quality is extremely important to the respiratory system of your rodents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Same here Jo, I'm up to 110 breeding female rats and never have a problem with RI's. I believe ventilation is the best thing for large rodent colonies, instead of using air conditioning this year, we are using a ventilation method of pulling cool air in of the cool side (north side) and blowing warm air out on the warm side (south). We have a thermostat that turns the fan on when it reaches a certain temp (82) in the rodent room and shuts off when it gets down to 75 degrees.

Not only does it keep the rodents from overheating, it also constantly replaces the air in the room. Keeping the air quality much cleaner. Air quality is extremely important to the respiratory system of your rodents.

---

I agree with you both. I have not seen a single RI. While my colony is not all that large (around 30 adults and at any given time 75-150 babies) I keep the room well ventilated and the temps in the safe range. Fresh water, frequent cleanings and quality food all play a part in my opinion. As far as sick rats, I guess I would have to make a judgment call. I have fed off weans that had obvious leg paralysis or an eye that was stuck shut. A few of my breeders are my pets as well and get extra attention but the rest are just breeders that I have very little feeling for other than that of respect for what they do to feed my snakes. I have not had to retire a breeder yet but until it becomes unmanageable, the retired breeders will get to live out their short lives in comfort and happiness.

i agree... ventilation and bedding are the two main concerns IMO. bedding because if the bedding is bothering them, then illness can set in easier.

when we got our first two ratties they were weazing a little, changed the bedding till they stopped and then just stayed with the new bedding. (carefresh) ;)

never had a case of RI in our home either. (that includes years of breeding mice)

JoAnna -
I meant rats in general are pretty well-known for their ability to develop RI's rather easily. :) Mine are generally healthy, I was just asking what to do when one should happen to get sick. Mine don't, usually, but 2-4 a year will definitely add up, regardless of their short lives. Especially with the numbers I keep at a time...there really isn't much room for more companion rats. I just wanted information for the future. Otherwise, my ratties are in great health. I understand your concern though! Thank you! :D

To everyone else -
Thanks alot for your responses! I'd love to respond individually, but it's getting rather late and I think I have a case of "the dumb," so to speak. ;) So, I will just type to whoever wishes to read.

I believe, too, that my keeping a few here and there as "pets," is interfering with my breeding. I don't pick and choose the cutest babies, but I know exactly what MarkS means about the personalities! Some are just so affectionate...I'm seriously considering seperating myself from the rats as pets idea. I've slowly been spending less time handling a few at a time. I still have two boys that I would NEVER dream of feeding off to any of my snakes. I had gotten them as companions animals from my grandfather, so they have a very special place in my heart. It's hard work weaning myself away from the rest of the companions, but I'm doing my best.

I was just under the impression that sickly animals would not be best food items, but apparently, it is just my paranoia setting in. I know about the predators in the wild picking off the old and sick animals, I just did not consider that when I posted this question. :oops:

Again, thank you all for your responses! I fear if I keep typing, I'm going to go off talking about something completely off-topic, so I'm just going to view other posts, rather than try to construct intelligent things to say. *lol* :)

Raven I think it's always a case by case, judgement call when it comes to picking a feeder. If it's not perfect, then it comes down to what the issue is with it and judging whether it's an appropriate rat to use as a feeder. We've had the occasion to have a megacolon offspring and a litter that simply did not thrive and those were not fed off due to their general lack of body mass. They would just have made a very poor meal for a snake and we have so many others to pick from. If it was a simple structural issue like Jamie mentioned and the rat is otherwise in good health, then I'd feed it off quite happily.

Maybe it's just because I grew up in the boonies around farmers, hunters and fishermen but I seem to easily keep seperate the feeders and my permanent breeders. Not sure why but it really has never bothered me to see them as seperate groups and interact with them completely differently. I guess it's like I love watching deer in the wild, want to see lots of forest left for them to live free in but can easily sit down to a lovely venison roast. Just like with the rats though I'm a big advocate for humane hunting practises and that smart hunters should be conservationalists.

Thanks for the respone, Joanna! The judgement call bit does make alot of sense.

My family, too, were hunters when we lived back in New York. I'm one that really enjoys seeing deer in the wild, but doesn't hesitate when one is presented as a meal. Of course, I'm completely against people that hunt for fun with no respect to the animal, and no desire to actually use what they kill. I make use of even roadkill (not to eat, of course!). I have a high respect for all animals, and for people that respect them just as much as I do.

Back to the subject at hand...I'm surprised not many people here see respiratory illness in their rats. Having had them since '98, and having been part of many rat communities, boards and such, I have seen SO many cases of respiratory problems. I do not know what those people may have done to cause the illnesses in their rats, but I know that I, too, have had cases of RI's and I know how I care for mine. Every 6 days all cages get a complete change, and get scrubbed from top to bottom. They're on a homemade mix supplemented with fresh fruits and veggies and non-harmful-to-rats human food bits from whatever I'm eating. They are kept in big wire cages, so ventilation/space was never a problem. They are not subjected to extreme temperature changes, drafts, anything.

What I'm trying to say is...you guys that see very little or no respiratory problems...you're so lucky! Please, send some of those healthy vibes our way! Currently, nobody is suffering, but we'll need those vibes later on in the year, more than likely! Unfortunately. :(

Thanks again!