Taking ball to the vet..some help please?

Hello ,

I will be getting 10 breedable size female royals..they are wc i belive but 90% of them are feeding and they have bin in captivity 12 months..

I want to take them to a vet..just to make sure they are all healthy ect..what should i get the vet to do?

Also how much do you think it will cost to have 10 ball pythons checked over? im from the uk but evan if you give me a ruff american price that would be ok :)

Thanks

Ollie

I don't think anyone can answer you about the cost, because most vets will work with you on multiple animals. Just call around and find one that will do that! :D

Ok cool :) thanks for the reply

Can some1 help me on the rest of the stuff.... :D

you should bring fecals if you can, and also since you know they are WC you should ask them to give treatment fo internal parasites get weights and recomendations on if they are under weight or over, etc etc.


~mike

If you can I would take stool samples in on all of them.
Just have the vet give them a general check up and weigh them.
Stool would be nice to check for internal bugs.

can they check for IBD without having to do the brain surgery on it?

I am curious...why if they have been in captivity for so long do you need to take them to the vet? Do you not trust the person you are getting them from? Having been in captivity for a year most any issue related to them coming from the wild would have shown up by now...especially parasites and ticks?

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

I am curious...why if they have been in captivity for so long do you need to take them to the vet? Do you not trust the person you are getting them from? Having been in captivity for a year most any issue related to them coming from the wild would have shown up by now...especially parasites and ticks?

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I think this gets into the whole quarentine issue and can you really ever "trust" the person you are getting them from and i think this person is lookin to get everything started as "clean" as possible. I don't think it is a bad idea.

With internal parasites, they may be in balance with the animal for a year because they were comfortable and not stressed (just guessing) and then comming into a new "home" could stress them to the point where they are negatively affected by the residual parasites in the gut.

~mike

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Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

I think this gets into the whole quarentine issue and can you really ever "trust" the person you are getting them from and i think this person is lookin to get everything started as "clean" as possible. I don't think it is a bad idea.

With internal parasites, they may be in balance with the animal for a year because they were comfortable and not stressed (just guessing) and then comming into a new "home" could stress them to the point where they are negatively affected by the residual parasites in the gut.

~mike

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So in other words you have taken all your snakes to the vet when you first got them just to be careful?

What I am saying is yes definately QT them...but I don't see a need to take them to the vet for no reason. The money he saves could be put toward more snakes :D

Just my opinion

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

So in other words you have taken all your snakes to the vet when you first got them just to be careful?

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yea, when you get a puppy the first thing you do is go to the vet right?

~mike

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Originally Posted by SnakeEyes

can they check for IBD without having to do the brain surgery on it?

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anyone?

Sorry can't help ya there.


~mike

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Originally Posted by SnakeEyes

can they check for IBD without having to do the brain surgery on it?

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Actually, I believe IBD is tested through a liver biopsy. And the test is not conclusive. It can prove IBD is there, if it finds the inclusions....but it can't rule it out completely because the inclusions may be in a different part of the liver and not in the biopsied piece. This is why a necropsy is the only sure way to tell because they can examine the entire liver then.

I am speaking from a memory known for it's gaping holes, so don't shoot me if I've remembered that info incorrectly. But I believe it's right. :P

so if thats the case, then how would keeping a new snake QT for 90 days prove anything?

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Originally Posted by SnakeEyes

so if thats the case, then how would keeping a new snake QT for 90 days prove anything?

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If it's a ball python, IBD will have shown itself in outward symptoms by the time 90 days is up. If it's a boa, I'd go for a much longer QT (6-12 months) before ever allowing a boa anywhere near my pythons...as the disease can lay dormant in a boa for several months.

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Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

yea, when you get a puppy the first thing you do is go to the vet right?

~mike

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Absolutely...puppies will die otherwise (they must have shots)...snakes won't.
I know of NO breeder that takes there newly hatched snakes to the vet for a checkup.

As Judy points out IBD would have shown up within 90 days and you really cannot test for it till the snake is dead.

Again just my opinion on the necessity of taking all 10 to the vet just cause.

[QUOTE=lord jackel]Absolutely...puppies will die otherwise (they must have shots)...snakes won't.
QUOTE]

people dont only take their puppies to the vet for shots (which they can live without they just run a higher chance of getting a potentially lethal disease. example:strays ) People take them to a vet to be sure that the animal is of optimal health and catch any problems which may be less apparent to someone who doesn't know what to look for. If a snake does have a huge parasite load (which can come from feeder rodents or proximity to other infected individuals or from being wild caught) it could be just as lethal as any canine disease etc etc.

Everyone does things their own way, and if you don't think it is necessary to have them atleast looked over (they are wild caught) thats understandable, i just know that i personally want my animals to be as healthy as possible.I think the discrepancy comes when you have wild caugh individuals and if you can trust the seller, with morph they have been bred for health and aren't something you necessarily need to bring to a vet i agree, but these are wild caught individuals. just my :2cent: :sweeet:

~mike

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Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

Everyone does things their own way, and if you don't think it is necessary to have them atleast looked over (they are wild caught) thats understandable, i just know that i personally want my animals to be as healthy as possible.I think the discrepancy comes when you have wild caugh individuals and if you can trust the seller, with morph they have been bred for health and aren't something you necessarily need to bring to a vet i agree, but these are wild caught individuals. just my :2cent: :sweeet:

~mike

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I agree we all want our animals as healthy as possible and if someone needs the stamp of approval from a vet that is great for them...but I think it also is a matter of experience on the need to take them to the vet. Maybe Jon will pop in here and give his view (he brings in a bunch of WC every year and I doubt he takes all of them to the vet just for a check up).

Honestly though on these specific snakes they have been cared for over a year...not right out of Africa. This is why my very first question was if the buyer had some reason not to trust the breeder...sounds like we have the same basic opinion just looking at if from different sides :grouphug:

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Originally Posted by lord jackel

sounds like we have the same basic opinion just looking at if from different sides :grouphug:

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Agreed!:handshake haha.

~mike

Thank you for all the replys :D

Hows this for a idea..i should be getting them home saturday..i wait 2-3 weeks and see what ones eat and what ones dont..the ones that dont..i then take down the vet for a check up? or would this be a bad idea?

The reason i was thinking i should get them all down the vet is because i could then have my mind at rest knowing that they are all 100% fine..( hopefully )

They will all be going into the same rack..separate boxes..but i have no other snakes in this rack at all..since they have all came from the same place im guessing this would be ok? im really hoping so..nun of them will have physical contact with each other and my hands will be washed between each pick up..or clean out..

Also can any of the health problems mentiond be passed on to the other snakes?

LORDJACKEL - About trusting and not trusting the breeder..iv never got snakes from him before..so im alittle bit nervous about it..i dont think i have any real reason to be..just i just need to make sure these snakes im getting will turn into good breeder's..they weight from 1300g - 1900g..but before i try any type of breeding with them i want them 100% top condition..eating great..ect..

Again thanks for all your replys :D

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Originally Posted by SnakeEyes

so if thats the case, then how would keeping a new snake QT for 90 days prove anything?

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Because IBD kills pythons in a matter of weeks. If they have IBD, they won't survive the 90 days.

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Originally Posted by ollie

LORDJACKEL - About trusting and not trusting the breeder..iv never got snakes from him before..so im alittle bit nervous about it..i dont think i have any real reason to be..just i just need to make sure these snakes im getting will turn into good breeder's..they weight from 1300g - 1900g..but before i try any type of breeding with them i want them 100% top condition..eating great..ect..

Again thanks for all your replys :D

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Ollie,

For what it's worth, wild caught adult females rarely make good breeders. They just don't adapt as well to captivity.

Now if these were bush babies from Africa and raised up in captivity, that's a different story, but if captured as adults, your chances go way down.

Dave and Tracy Barker address this in Pythons of the World Vol II: Ball Pythons

There really are no short-cuts to breeding. I suspect someone's offered you a great deal on 10 breedable sized females. You have to ask yourself why it's such a great deal.

I'd much rather see you get some young ball females and take a couple of years to raise them yourself.

I'm perhaps confused here. These are breedable size females, WC's that have been in captivity for 12 months and 10% of them haven't eaten in a year???? Somethings not right about that. Do you have recommendations on this importer from others? What sort of guarantee do you have on live arrival, health, proper sexing, etc.? Do you have current weights on all ten? Have you any experience dealing with adult wild caught ball pythons? Sounds like you don't already have a relationship with a vet experienced with snakes.

Like Robin said adult WC's are an iffy proposition. I have one here we rescued and she's yet to stablize enough weightwise to consider her breedable (at least in our opinion). I can't imagine taking on 10 of them. :eek:

Just a thought but rather than end up with 10 possible problems (they could in reality have been unpacked from Africa last week, they could have internal/external parasites, they could be all males...unless you know your supplier, it's a crap shot dear)...so rather than go through that what about putting that buying dollar towards something with less issues. How about a couple of nice 05 female bps from a good source, or some 06's even. If you could find a couple or three 05's you'd be ahead of the game, and if they are in good shape you could be ready to breed them next season.

Here's a link to a very reputable UK breeder.....

http://crystalpalacereptiles.com/categories.php?cat=11

Hey thanks again for all the replys..

Iv spoke to breeder about my conserns..and this is how it is..i can pay more..for feeding adult females..that have been in captivity for 3 yrs..they where wc babys

Or i can do what i was going to do and get the other ones what are much cheeper..some will feed and some wont..and they have been in captivity one year..

Im going to pay for for the feeder's that have been here for 3 years..he assures me that they are healthy ect..now as they have been in captivity 3 years..will they still be alright for breeding?

Thanks

Ollie

Ollie,


The ones that he's had for three years - when you say wild caught babies, do you really mean captive hatched and brought over here as babies?

Well started CH babies are fine. I would not touch a group of wild caught adult females no matter how long they've been in captivity - they just don't do as well and are generally very stressed out by captivity.

Still seems odd to me 1,300 to 1,900 grams and some of them haven't eaten in a year of captive life? Just doesn't add up to me. Do you have direct experience with getting WC adults going? As well remember that weight is only one determination for suitability to breed. A very big, long female at 1,900 grams might be very underweight and 1,300 grams is not even minimum to try in my opinion. Did this supplier confirm they've all been treated for both internal and external parasites?

They have been in captivity for around 3 years in Africa or Ghana to be exact and you can tell this when you see the snakes they are great snakes.

These snakes are originally from the wild but have been in our shippers captive breeding farm for at least three years

^ That is what the breeder has said..

Then he has other ones that have been around in captivity for only 1yr- i have 100% definutly ruled them out!

The ones the breeder is talking about now..( the bit i quoted ) they are feeding..

What do you think?

Im starting to think id be alot better getting some baby normal females..

Thanks

Ollie

I'm sorry Ollie, I will be the first to admit that I don't know squat about African shippers, but it seems odd to me that they are:

a) keeping WC females for three years just for the sake of keeping them when they collect eggs each season from the wild and release the females that they don't decide to keep to sell in the same season

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These snakes are originally from the wild but have been in our shippers captive breeding farm for at least three years

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b) If they WERE using them as breeders, why are they now selling them? Were they not producing for them? You'd think if they were producing, they wouldn't want to sell them only to have to replace them with new breeders if they've already established these.

Get you some nice babies and take the time to raise them up yourself. Joanna already suggested that you contact Crystal Palace, and I agree with her.

Im not getting them at all im keeping clear.. :)

Thank you all for all your help


Ollie