hog island boa turned nasty

as i've shared... our hog island struck someone when he was out about a month ago... and since then, we can't handle him at all. as soon as we go into his enclosure he gets into strike pose, begins to hiss and since my hubby isn't at all afraid of him, he still reaches in and drake hits his hand. he doesn't open his mouth but he hits him.

i'm so upset... we can't even take him out anymore so how can i continue to care for him? i can't clean his enclosure, it's really hard to change his water unless he's in his hide asleep (which is when i'm doing it now).

so at this point... what do we do?

That's a Hog for ya, some of them have some nasty tempers! I'll post a pic of mine while I was cleaning her just tonight, little brats.

You'll just to have to take the punches and let him know who's boss. It'll wear off, more than likely it's just a phase.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88...02007/04-9.jpg

Is your husbandry dead on? If so, its possible that its just a phase. It seems odd that he is out and calm and then just starts biting.

i'm going to go double check jamie... but i believe my temps are right.

*runs from the room to check*

try taking him out of the cage with a hook, then handling him... dunno anything helps i guess, my females a beast all the time, and i just sit there and take the bites and hope sometime she'll calm down

well honestly, i have kids in the house and if he doesn't smarten up i'll be rehoming him. i don't want they to get tagged.

that said... i checked the temps and it's reading 87 and 76.

so i thought about what's changed and we had our rtb's enclosure on top of his... so he had heat from above as well and now that she's gone (we sold her) his cool side temp has dropped 4 degrees. so i've just added a heating pad on top of his enclosure to get his cool side temps up a bit.

but he bit before his temps went down... so i wonder... is this a phase and how long will it last. we are in the process of building a tank stand with an enclosure in it for him... but i don't want to put all that money into a new enclosure if i'm going to rehome him...

arrgghh silly snake!

(and... the temps here in the last week have been shorts and t-shirts weather... today was cooler... so his cool side temps haven't been stable like they were before) :(

Hoggies can be temperamental.. my big girl is usually ok (she always hisses though) but just two weeks ago she bit the inside of my arm when I set her in her holding tub while I cleaned her cage. She's 6' but the bite didn't even hurt (honestly)

My baby male hog island has only struck once, closed mouth. He's really laid back (so far)

Try not to let him freak you out.. if you jerk your hand away when he strikes at you, you're just going to scare him more. Put gloves on if it makes you feel better, but get him out for some handling time. I wouldn't put it past a snake to learn to act pissy in order to be left alone.

my hubby isn't the least bit intimidated by him... and he does all the handling. drake normally really likes my hubby and seems to prefer him. (if someone else is holding him and my hubby walks by drake reaches to go back to him) - that said, i know it's generally accepted here that snakes don't have those type of feelings. ;)

we'll get him out for another holding session in two days (as my hubby fed him tonight) - and see if we can't get him to be social again.

Aleesha what's the hoggie like once he's actually out? Does he calm down then or still try to strike once he's out and away from his enclosure? The reason I ask is that Brannagh during the worst of her striking/biting time was far worse when we were in her "space" but calmer as we moved her away from it.

I'd say check the husbandry first, double check you are feeding an appropriate prey amount so the snake isn't hungry and then get a set of leather gauntlet style gloves and just have at it. We calmed Brannagh down by simply removing her, holding her firmly and under control and just letting her fight it out, once she calmed down she was allowed to go back in her enclosure. Eventually she got it through her snakey mind that her games wouldn't work, she couldn't drive us away, if she was calm life was better and nothing was hurting her. They may not do higher math but they aren't dumb about this stuff if it's done over and over and over again.

Remember too that if the snake intimidates you, it will know this. I firmly believe Brannagh could sense my fear of her aggression and when I was calm, she was less reactive to me. The kids were never allowed around Brannagh back then, now all 5 feet of her is flopped over anyone that wants to hold her (well except feeding day...she's still not a snake to mess about with on feeding day LOL).

maybe something smells different in the room or on the people?

(I'm grasping at straws here)

Is the enclosure in a high-traffic area?

I know it is your choice, but I really wouldn't jump to rehoming him so soon, if he doesn't "smarten up." Especially at this size, even a good bite won't pose any real danger to yourself or your children. I understand that that is completely your choice also, to keep a snake that may bite your children, but I really wouldn't worry much about it. That's just me. I would give it some time, and maybe even use this opportunity to learn how to pick up a grumpy snake. My experience is as long as you go about it assertively, you minimize the risk of being bitten.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Aleesha what's the hoggie like once he's actually out? Does he calm down then or still try to strike once he's out and away from his enclosure? The reason I ask is that Brannagh during the worst of her striking/biting time was far worse when we were in her "space" but calmer as we moved her away from it.

I'd say check the husbandry first, double check you are feeding an appropriate prey amount so the snake isn't hungry and then get a set of leather gauntlet style gloves and just have at it. We calmed Brannagh down by simply removing her, holding her firmly and under control and just letting her fight it out, once she calmed down she was allowed to go back in her enclosure. Eventually she got it through her snakey mind that her games wouldn't work, she couldn't drive us away, if she was calm life was better and nothing was hurting her. They may not do higher math but they aren't dumb about this stuff if it's done over and over and over again.

Remember too that if the snake intimidates you, it will know this. I firmly believe Brannagh could sense my fear of her aggression and when I was calm, she was less reactive to me. The kids were never allowed around Brannagh back then, now all 5 feet of her is flopped over anyone that wants to hold her (well except feeding day...she's still not a snake to mess about with on feeding day LOL).

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he hasnt' been out... he gets grumpy, starts striking (closed mouthed) - holds his mouth open hissing like crazy and we leave him alone. :eek: i can't believe i'm so freakin' stupid *knocks head on wall* geesh i should know this stuff.

thanks for pulling my head outta my butt jo... i'll make sure he's held... regardless of his complaints. i guess the whole... striking and restriking our friend made me very very leary of taking him out. i am not his handler... ever cause i am intimidated... i'm a wimp - i can admit that... but my hubby isn't at all afraid of him and i'm the one telling him to leave him be.

so tomorrow... he gets held - whether he wants to or not! and we'll work from there.

thanks jo... for shining light on my mistake. i don't know how i forgot rule #723: "A snake will misbehave to get what it wants".

i'm going into his room (rapture, he's in my bedroom, always has been... very quiet - low traffic space except during the vibrational breathing at night) and i'm going to inform him that he's implementing rule #723 and therefore i will have to bring on the counter-rule #1684 "No... I'm da boss"

*whew* I'm feeling so much better already! :carrot:

LOL it's okay hon. Believe me it was very, very odd to be standing beside big butt Brannagh's tub back then literally talking to myself..."Jo you will NOT be afraid, you can doooooooooooooooo eeeeeeet LOL"...then the talk to Brannagh..."okay missy we are doing this, nasty or nice, it's getting done". Then I'd usually either distract her and grab her tight behind the head so she couldn't turn and nail me, or drop a small facecloth on her head so I had enough time to actually grab her (she was sooooo fast). Lots of deep breathing and settling myself down too Aleesha as I truly believe snakes "smell" that fear coming off humans (makes sense to me that a predator would).

I don't have direct experience with hogg island boa's so I don't know how they differ to ball pythons but we just found that consistent, firm and direct handling with Brannagh slowly stop the aggression. We'd just get her out, keep her under control until she stopped fighting, allow her to relax a moment and put her back in her home. Over and over again...till she got conditioned that handling wasn't harming her and biting wasn't driving us away. Small steps and she backtracked a few times on us to see if we'd back off again, but when she got it through that small brain of hers that acting up wasn't getting her any place fast she gave it up as a bad idea eventually. I still don't mess with her on feeding day but that's perfectly okay with me.

i told my hubby and he said, "no problem i'll haul his butt outta the enclosure and show him how's boss" LOL so i'm pleased. i feel like a renewed relationship opportunity has been gifted to me.

thank you thank you thank you!!!

(oh and i will not be brave but i will stay out of the room so he can't smell my fear) :rofl:

It's more than likely just that. With Hogs, in my experience, you just have to let them think they are boss. They are very vocal little buggers! I think it's cute, but Christina thinks it's not so cute...lol. She's scared silly of my girl Hog and won't even walk by the enclosure. I can't help but laugh when I hear Hog's are good beginner snakes, 9 out of 10 Hogs have HUGE attitudes and need a pretty seasoned keeper to tame them, or a very unfearful one! Hope your hubby keeps up the good work and congrats on not re-homing him!

Yeah I agree, Jim.. an adult hoggie can be quite intimidating for someone without a lot of experience (and for those with it too!) my big girl hisses a LOT.. I just ignore it, but it can be very scary for some people. I also find if I just reach in there and grab them, I'm much better off than if I act scared of a tag. I think that just makes the snake more nervous.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Yeah I agree, Jim.. an adult hoggie can be quite intimidating for someone without a lot of experience (and for those with it too!) my big girl hisses a LOT.. I just ignore it, but it can be very scary for some people. I also find if I just reach in there and grab them, I'm much better off than if I act scared of a tag. I think that just makes the snake more nervous.

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Couldn't agree more. You just have to grab them, it gives you much less of a chance of getting tagged and it doesn't give the snake as much of a chance to get defensive.

well we're still on the fence about rehoming him... we have to get him out and work with him before i'll jump off my little fence post :giggle: but i certainly feel 100% better about the situation now.

sometimes, even when you have the info tucked away in your brain somewhere, you need to hear it from others to make it come to the forefront. i cherish each and every one of the members here... for reminding me of what i know and filling in the blanks of what i think i know or don't have a clue about :hug:

we finally got him out for a short time. my hubby's been working 12-16 hour nights so he's been sleeping all day...

anyway, no hissing... he was out about 5 minutes and he hissed once (on my hubby's shoulder the whole time) and my hubby just told him to stop being silly LOL

my hubby feels confident that drake is going to be back to our usual, vocal, somewhat well behaved boy LOL and that's GREAT news in our home!!!

That's good to hear, Aleesha.. I hope he decides to behave himself. :)

Wow, I was always tolds Hoggs were really docile. I'm glad I know differently now! I don't know anything about Hoggs, but how old is he? I know Kozma went through a pissy phase that I just dubbed as snake puberty when he came of age :) He still can be a little aggressive though. I hope you will keep him. Kozma is a big brat, but once you get to know him better you know what to do to keep him satisfied and not angry. I hope that made sense. I suppose taking charge can also count as just pretending to let them be boss as Jim said.

if things continue as they are... which honestly i expect them to do as he was his old self again... then we will most certainly keep him!