I'm perplexed

So, Ms Scarlett had her third litter four weeks ago, probably today. I got back from NC four weeks ago tomorrow and discovered that she had her litter either the day before or the night before and was still with Caesar.

I quickly separated her from Caesar and put her into her own maternity tank and she's raised these babies wonderfully.

So, last night I notice that she looks incredibly pregnant again (but 28 days after being with Caesar).

Do rats "retain" sperm at all? I would have thought that if he got her pregnant in that 24 hours, I would have seen babies a week ago.

I even checked my calendar to make sure that I wasn't losing my mind - yup - this litter is four weeks old (and she is now in a new maternity tank by herself).

I like to rest my females after their litters are weaned or taken from them, so I'm a bit upset that she's having back to back litters, but she appears to be maintaining good weight. I don't have any other nursing moms at the moment (in fact, Foxy and Twix have been with Caesar since she was pulled from him, and neither of them show signs of pregnancy yet).

I dont know, but Im pretty sure they can retain sperm. I have 2 females who have looked VERY prgnant for at least 1 to 1.5 weeks. It's driving me :rolleye2: Im getting sick of looking at these fatties! And sick of buying rats! :banned1:

Anyways, not really sure, but Im having a similar situation

Not that I'm an expert, but I recently read that female rats go into heat relativly soon after giving birth. I think it was something like two to five days, and then not again until the litter is weaned. So if she was in there with a boy she could have gotten pregnant again, but it would appear that it was a longer gestation. If I can find the site again is it ok to post a link here? It was very comprehensive, and well stated, I thought. If that fits you time frames then it might be an explanation.

Yes, you can post a link that adds to a discussion!

Here it is. http://www.ratbehavior.org/PostPartumConception.htm

The home tab is at the bottom, and there is a lot of what I thought was good, easy to read information.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Do rats "retain" sperm at all? I would have thought that if he got her pregnant in that 24 hours, I would have seen babies a week ago.

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I know mice can get pregnant again within hours of having a litter and I would not doubt that rats are the same so even if she stayed as little as 24 hours after giving birth I would think it was sufficient.

Found this on this site http://ratguide.com/breeding/basics/statistics.php

Quote:

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Return of estrus after delivery- 12-24 hours

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Yes, I know she could have gotten pregnant while still with Caesar - my question is, she's not been with a male for FOUR weeks, and gestation is just THREE weeks - is a four week gestation not unheard of?

The link I posted talks about delayed implantation due to nursing, at about 32 days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jahbeard

The link I posted talks about delayed implantation due to nursing, at about 32 days.

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That explains it - so, we should be seeing babies the middle of next week (figuring about 32 days after the first birth).

Thanks!

Me and my links LOL.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=1127638

What I basically got from this study (and a few others I read through) is that delayed implantation is quite possible but it's dependent a lot of the hormones that occur when mammals nurse and on the number of young being nursed. If a rat was only nursing a couple of young she would most likely implant immediately, a larger litter (therefore higher hormonal levels) can cause the delay.

Makes sense to me that nature would allow for this either in having another litter quickly if the first was not terribly productive due to it's very small size or in delaying implantation to give the female more time to deal with the first larger litter before the second starts developing inside her.

Isn't mother nature amazing? Although I still badly for Ms. Scarlett. :(

Mother Nature is truly amazing! I know you feel bad that Ms. S bred so quickly again but I'm sure she'll be fine. You may find this litter a bit smaller or need to foster some off if she's unable to care for them all so if you have another lactating female there keep her available just in case. Give Ms. S a good long rest after this litter and I'm sure she'll be fine. I know you keep your rats in wonderful condition so she's already ahead of the game. I've had females that were almost done nursing a litter and then fostered another litter of newborns and they do fine as long as they are well cared for and well rested afterwards.

i had this happen with one of my girls that gave birth while still with a male--she got pregnant again even though i removed her less than 24 hours after she delivered. of course i didn't know she was pregnant again until i found her looking huge about 3.5 weeks later. mother nature is awesome though--i was able to wean or feed off all of her first litter before she gave birth to the second because of the delay. i did end up giving about half of her litter to another mom with a new litter so she'd have an easier time with nursing (didn't feel good about fostering the whole litter to the other mom because she already had a good sized litter herself). i will say that mom was a bit crankier that normal a few days before giving birth and while she was nursing (she got pretty nippy with me whereas normally she isn't at all) but i can't really blame her there. i gave her a nice long rest afterwards and she's back to her normal happy self. i'm sure ms. scarlett will do fine too since she is healthy and in good shape so you shouldn't feel too bad about it. :)

Well, Scarlett is having her litter now - looks to be a big one. I don't have any other nursing moms right now to split her litter with, but she's a good mom who doesn't mind taking a break at the opposite end from her babies - she's always been very good and making sure she gets a break without neglecting her litter, and is not an over-protective mom.


Just got me thinking, she's not been a particularly cuddly rat, but she's been an awesome mom, that doesn't mind me messing with her babies for any reason, and usually has large litters - I may have to hold back a daughter of hers soon.

Edit - she just let me do a head count - 14 babies. I'm not sure if she's done, I'll do another headcount tomorrow.

I'd certainly pick one of her daughters Robin and keep her back as a replacment for mom or just to expand your female group. There's definite information out there that easy birthing, larger litters and mothering skills are genetic with rats. Every one of my top breeding females has a daughter or two backing mom up and stepping into her place as she retires.

Thanks Jo! I've got four of her daughters in with some of my resting females (had to get them away from their brothers). There's one I've got an eye on - and I've also got one of Mrs. Snuggles' daughters too (I think hands down, Mrs. Snuggles is my favorite rat, Karl gave her an apt name - she's so squishy and cuddly, and a love bug!) LOL

Yep it's what I do. Jet is Alita's daughter and has replaced mom as Alita's retired now. Same with SweetiePie replacing her mom HoneyChild, whose also retired. (okay you can all laugh at their names...you know you want too LOL). I like continuing the genetics of a great female breeder and also that I know these new females, saw them born and know they were raised up well and are very healthy.

i love your names! the rats are the one group of mine that gets the cutesy gooshy names. :P one of the breeding groups: cream puff, powder puff, puffle puff and puff daddy. :D then there is piddle diddle, fiddle diddle and little diddle. blackie, blaze, blitz and pointer are some of the more normalish names...

I love it Em! LOL Let's see if I can list all of mine (some are breeders, retired breeders, just pets)....

Males:

Casanova, SuperNova and Lightning (in the market for a nice blue male but can't find one locally:( )

Females:

HoneyChild, Alita, Jet, Sweetiepie, Betsy Buttpatch, Big Bertha, Squeekers, Tiffany, DaisyMae, Patches, Liz and Liza

betsy buttpatch is my favorite--hilarous! :D

Robin helped me name that one! Oh and I forgot one female - Stubby (the tailless female). Can't forget Stubby who loves the food bowl more than life itself and has been known to park her entire litter against the food bowl so she isn't too far away from heaven on earth. I think Stubbster has "issues", she's the only rat that looks pregnant pretty much every day LOL.

ha, well at least miss stubbs is passionate about something... when i used food bowls (before racks) i had one female that would always empty all the food out of her dish, make a nest in it and keep her litter there. i thought it was kinda smart--the structure was already there, she just comfied it up a bit for the beebies and it held them in quite nicely. :)

LOL I have one female that uses her food dish as a sort of "tent". She empties it, drags it over to her nest and flips it upside down creating a roof over the babies. I think it keeps them in the nest and shuts them up a bit so she can go off and eat in peace and quiet across the tank.

Well, while we're naming names, I have Caesar and his palace (get it, Caesar's Palace??? I slay myself!), Mrs. Snuggles, Scarlett, Foxy, Holly, Jojo, Twix and....sigh.....Panda - a daughter of Mrs. Snuggles that didn't get fed off before she got too big! LOL