Question of morals...

Okay, one of my breeder girls Snitty had her litter the other day, I found them strewn about the cage, cold but alive and she could have cared less about them. I took them and put them with Idgey (dear girl is the best foster mom ever)who, being the steller mom that she is, took them in (there were four survivors).

This is the second time Snitty has done this, it's obvious she has no maternal instinct, she's not a bad rat, very vocal but not that cuddly. Easy answer, feed her off right?
Well, my dilema comes up in the fact that she and Idgey are very close, when they are in their 'momma down time' they do everything together.

So, do I still feed her off? Or do I keep her as a companion rat?

Rats (as you know) are social creatures so if you don't need the space I would keep her. But...are you moving the other girl to the male or where you bringing the male to them? (how do you keep the one from getting preganant again)

Another option is to find a new friend for your girl...so you have 2 good breeders...maybe one of her daughters? I do this when it is time to retire on of the girls...or like you I have a bad mother. :)

Hm.. I have seen where I interrupted a nursing mom, and she will run across the tank and babies will trail after her.. how long were they ignored? I have left them for a few hours, and found that the mother will usually take the babies back into a nest area..
I personally don't have the means to support extra rats that are not producing.. if you consider her a pet-type animal, by all means keep her, otherwise I don't know.

Making decisions for any breeding group is just part of the process. If this rat fills a role in your colony and you wish to keep her, then by all means do so. We have rats in our colony that are retired after their breeding lives are over, or unsuitable for breeding but we simply like that specific rat and find a place for it within our adult group. An extra rat here or there really makes no major impact so I don't mind having them around and I usually find something for them to do.

Do what you feel comfortable with. :)

As long as she get along with the other female rats, I would keep her as a companion rat...but if you need all of your rats to produce for you..feed her off and replace her with a new female...After all, the rat breeding serves a purpose, to feed your snakes, so you would want the most production possible for the colony...

Charlie, for some of us with smaller breeding colonies or just an interest in rats for both production of feeders and enjoyment of managing a colony, it's a bit of a balance. You cannot realistically keep a lot of non-producers because that becomes a burden on your time and negates some of the financial benefits of raising your own feeders. However for me, a few older retirees or the occasional "I just like this rat so I'm not feeding it off" works. I tend to find them "jobs" (rats are social anyways so they need something to do). Some of my older rats keep control in the recently weaned feeder bins as I find an older, hand tamed rat to be a good thing in there - keeps the feeders calm and calm rats eat and grow better as well as being I believe safer live feeders. Some of my non-breeders are simply companions for the breeders as they cycle in and out of the breeder/maternity enclosures.

I agree, Jo. But if you have to run a tight ship because of space, finances etc...there is no room to waste tub space with a non producing rat....IMHO..

some of my girls are starting to be retired and it is kind of a tough thing. i'm trying to find a place for them all but i wonder when it will come to a point, as it certainly will, that i just don't have space for that many non-producing rats. right now i can keep one with resting females, one with feeders, one with females that are pregnant but have a week to go before giving birth and have been removed from the male, etc. this requires a lot of shuffling and i worry that eventually i won't be able to shuffle enough when i have more retired females. to me my breeders are also pets--they have been given names, handled a decent amount, produced well and earned their place in the colony and i do care for them after all this and know each one's quirks and whatnot... i may have to convince my father-in-law to build me another rack just to keep the retired breeders in!

Since I think of almost all of my rats as producers and nothing more, anyone that doesn't help with production is usually retired. Keeping multiple retired breeders around serves no purpose to me

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Since I think of almost all of my rats as producers and nothing more, anyone that doesn't help with production is usually retired. Keeping multiple retired breeders around serves no purpose to me

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I believe that my breeders do a lot for me and my snakes. Keeping them around after retired doesn't put a huge strain on my resources. The purpose it serves for me is respect.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I believe that my breeders do a lot for me and my snakes. Keeping them around after retired doesn't put a huge strain on my resources. The purpose it serves for me is respect.

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To each their own, neither way is wrong

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

To each their own, neither way is wrong

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Nobody said either way was wrong. I gave my opinion.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I believe that my breeders do a lot for me and my snakes. Keeping them around after retired doesn't put a huge strain on my resources. The purpose it serves for me is respect.

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i feel the same way--kinda like, look at all the work they did making feeders and more breeders for me... i guess i feel like i owe them a nice life in retirement after all that. that and i just like them. :)

Retirement here if I did that would consist of no handling at all except for picking them out when i clean the tubs.

Well for me "retiring" doesn't mean feeding off....feeding off is feeding off. I think each person responsible for living creatures must make the decision that sits right with them. For me it's pretty rare to feed off an older rat that did a great job for me and has been basically hand tamed (and named) over the time it spent in our colony. That works for me, doesn't mean it's the right way or the only way...just my way. :)

what i've done is this:

i have two females who aren't the birthing very large litters... so i've paired them up with a female who births huge litters... this way, the two of them can care for the small and large litter together. i find the 'not-so-good' mothers are better when they are housed with a GREAT mother.

for me it's all about respect as well. they've given my snakes such a healthy food source that i can only thank them by spoiling them with good food and good friends until they die of old age. :hug:

Lol looks at the rats we keep figuring the money they have saved us over the last couple of years I don't mind keeping a few extra's around unless they bite me lol yes even rats tend to bite me thats forgiven if there good breeders if not well I don't mind feeding them off at all.

My youngest son, who is in charge of rat production (and apparently channeling St. Francis), has already designated a "retirement" section of the rack that we just built. We have just started, and everyone is still pretty young, but we discussed the issue, and he is firm. So, as it was spoken, so shall it be written, and as it is written, so shall it be.

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Originally Posted by McAdry

Lol looks at the rats we keep figuring the money they have saved us over the last couple of years I don't mind keeping a few extra's around unless they bite me lol yes even rats tend to bite me thats forgiven if there good breeders if not well I don't mind feeding them off at all.

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i'm with you on the biting--a bite from momma because i was messing with her babies or doing something that otherwise made her feel threatened is fine, i can understand that. but a nasty mom who chomps me hard at every opportunity starting about a week before she gives birth until every last baby is weaned (or fed off) and moved from her cage--sorry, but i just can't have that.

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Originally Posted by mlededee

i'm with you on the biting--a bite from momma because i was messing with her babies or doing something that otherwise made her feel threatened is fine, i can understand that. but a nasty mom who chomps me hard at every opportunity starting about a week before she gives birth until every last baby is weaned (or fed off) and moved from her cage--sorry, but i just can't have that.

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I'm with you on that! I have been bitten 4 times in the 7 months I have been breeding rats. 3 were from mothers with pinks. 1 was just from a nasty girl. Most rats are just nice...

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Originally Posted by Jahbeard

My youngest son, who is in charge of rat production (and apparently channeling St. Francis), has already designated a "retirement" section of the rack that we just built. We have just started, and everyone is still pretty young, but we discussed the issue, and he is firm. So, as it was spoken, so shall it be written, and as it is written, so shall it be.

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Hahaha....this is great!

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Originally Posted by JLC

Hahaha....this is great!

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The younger one tends the rats, and the older one tends the snakes. It is the perfect personality match. ;)