Bigger Breeder?

Ok this question has been on my mind for quite some time,

In your eyes what makes someone a bigger breeder?

Bigger than who???

Everyone is bigger than me.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Bigger than who???

Everyone is bigger than me.

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That was a given...

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Originally Posted by jglass38

That was a given...

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Thanks jerk... :banned1: :banned1: :irkd: :heartbrea :ignore:


LOL of course it is.. LOL

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Thanks jerk... :banned1: :banned1: :irkd: :heartbrea :ignore:


LOL of course it is.. LOL

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Don't hate me for stating the obvious! :D

no I'd say names in the business. NERD, VPI, BHB, Greg, then you get to guys that are mid way, Adam, Jon, EC, Ralph, Sean and so on then you get to the serious hobbiest like Tim, Evan.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

no I'd say names in the business. NERD, VPI, BHB, Greg, then you get to guys that are mid way, Adam, Jon, EC, Ralph, Sean and so on then you get to the serious hobbiest like Tim, Evan.

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Ralph is mid way? Hardly...Ralph is one of the top breeders in the world. I put him right up there with NERD, BHB, VPI.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

no I'd say names in the business. NERD, VPI, BHB, Greg, then you get to guys that are mid way, Adam, Jon, EC, Ralph, Sean and so on then you get to the serious hobbiest like Tim, Evan.

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LOL ... trust me, one walk around Ralphs place and you know that he is way beyond "mid way". ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Ralph is mid way? Hardly...Ralph is one of the top breeders in the world. I put him right up there with NERD, BHB, VPI.

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See I've never talked with Ralph enough to figure his place I'm still VERY VERY VERY green to the breeder scene so please forgive.. LOL

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Bigger than who???

Everyone is bigger than me.

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Ive seen people who say they are bigger breeders just because of the number of animals they have and produce/import. Im talking about what you would call a bigger breeder.


For me I can care less about how many animals you have, a bigger breeder to me is someone who doesn't treat you like just every other customer they have ever dealt with but treats you like a friend/family member and whenever a problem comes up with an animal you have purchased from them, they take the time to help you no matter what the question is.

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Originally Posted by worldcupkeeper

Ive seen people who say they are bigger breeders just because of the number of animals they have and produce/import. Im talking about what you would call a bigger breeder.


For me I can care less about how many animals you have, a bigger breeder to me is someone who doesn't treat you like just every other customer they have ever dealt with but treats you like a friend/family member and whenever a problem comes up with an animal you have purchased from them, they take the time to help you no matter what the question is.

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Then you have definitely narrowed down that list :)

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Then you have definitely narrowed down that list :)

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No disrespect to anyone on that list, ive asked questions numerous times to the people on the list and they have always answered any question I have.

I think where im getting is from a few months ago (I think a few months) the whole MKR deal where they claimed to be the biggest breeders just from sheer numbers and thats been on my mind ever since.

The BIG breeders are basically the pioneers of this industry... The names you have mentioned are all people who have been here since the beginning and have produced MANY new morphs for us all, written books etc...
The mid ways (as you called them) are the people who are working their way to BIG breeder status through customer service, great animals, and trying to prove out new morphs...

Collection size really dosent seem to matter...

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Originally Posted by worldcupkeeper

No disrespect to anyone on that list, ive asked questions numerous times to the people on the list and they have always answered any question I have.

I think where im getting is from a few months ago (I think a few months) the whole MKR deal where they claimed to be the biggest breeders just from sheer numbers and thats been on my mind ever since.

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MKR was never as large (sheer numbers) as J. said they were... I can name many smaller breeders that had more clucthes and animals then they did... It was all a lie. They were looking around for Mojaves (and other snakes) at the end of the season trying to fill their pre-order and payment plans. I heard they had to refund a lot of money...

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Originally Posted by NextWorldExotics

The BIG breeders are basically the pioneers of this industry... The names you have mentioned are all people who have been here since the beginning and have produced MANY new morphs for us all, written books etc...
The mid ways (as you called them) are the people who are working their way to BIG breeder status through customer service, great animals, and trying to prove out new morphs...

Collection size really dosent seem to matter...

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EXACTLY, I guess I should have worded my post differently but thats what I was trying to get at.

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Originally Posted by worldcupkeeper

For me I can care less about how many animals you have, a bigger breeder to me is someone who doesn't treat you like just every other customer they have ever dealt with but treats you like a friend/family member and whenever a problem comes up with an animal you have purchased from them, they take the time to help you no matter what the question is.

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I don't think "bigger" is an operative word here, then. "Better" might be...well...better. :P "Excellent" or "Outstanding" would work great, too.

Folks can walk into Wal Mart and get some half-way decent service...a greeter smiles at you as you walk in...employees in the aisles will show you to a product you can't locate. But in the end, when you're standing in line to check out of a crowded store, you still feel like nothing more than one cow in the herd. Where-as the little mom-&-pop store where they know your name and ask about your kids and make sure to stock your favorite brand of chocolate and can tell without computer cross-checks if your perscription meds are going to interact badly.....one is BIG....the other is EXCELLENT.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I don't think "bigger" is an operative word here, then. "Better" might be...well...better. :P "Excellent" or "Outstanding" would work great, too.

Folks can walk into Wal Mart and get some half-way decent service...a greeter smiles at you as you walk in...employees in the aisles will show you to a product you can't locate. But in the end, when you're standing in line to check out of a crowded store, you still feel like nothing more than one cow in the herd. Where-as the little mom-&-pop store where they know your name and ask about your kids and make sure to stock your favorite brand of chocolate and can tell without computer cross-checks if your perscription meds are going to interact badly.....one is BIG....the other is EXCELLENT.

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Your totally right, those are the words I should have used.:) (had a rough day;) )

I think these guys deserve the term pioneer nerd ,Ralph, VPI, Bob Clark, Pete Kahl and Graziani these are the breeders that come to my mind quickly.

guys like Adam are the ones that you can call "bigger". this guy answers everything i ask and from what i've heard (and will soon experience) is that he cares even after the deal. many people like him including him will answer calls if your snake is sick at 3 o' clock in the morning. thats what i would define as "big".

For people who may have a thousand snakes, but do NOT help afterwards and all they want is the rep and the money, then i would not want to do buisness with them.

-adi

IMO....A 'big breeder' is someone that breeds reptiles for a living. No other main source of income besides selling reptiles and stuff pertaining to reptiles.

If you can't afford to 'quit your dayjob' in order to breed snakes, you are still just one of the many little fish swimming the seas ;)

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

IMO....A 'big breeder' is someone that breeds reptiles for a living. No other main source of income besides selling reptiles and stuff pertaining to reptiles.

If you can't afford to 'quit your dayjob' in order to breed snakes, you are still just one of the many little fish swimming the seas ;)

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Im finally a BIG BREEDER! That was fast :D

Was the EC for me? if it was drop me down to serious hobbiest level. you did give me a tingle and made my head swell, but seriously...........Im an over achiever that gets lucky all the time. I will lend you my luck of the Irish. :oops:


Add my buddy Pete Kahl to the very top of that list. :)

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

no I'd say names in the business. NERD, VPI, BHB, Greg, then you get to guys that are mid way, Adam, Jon, EC, Ralph, Sean and so on then you get to the serious hobbiest like Tim, Evan.

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Originally Posted by NextWorldExotics

Im finally a BIG BREEDER! That was fast :D

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Not to bust your balls, but if it weren't for KS I wouldn't have known that NWE existed like I did the bigger breeders such as Ralph, NERD, VPI, PK, BHB, Bob Clark, Graziani, SK, basically just due to word of mouth.

I'm not saying you were a nobody because I didn't know who you were, but basically to me a "big breeder" has somehow made a name for themselves in the business. Whether it be developing/proving a new morph, or just a long standing reputable reputation in the ball python world.

Worldwide in the BP hobby most people know of Graziani pastels, VPI axanthics, Joliff Snow, Ralph for the platties....etc. They have HUGE recognition for their accomplishments in the business.

Just my two cents.

If you would have read the post i quoted, you would have seen i was joking...
Here is the post i responded too...

"Originally Posted by daniel1983
IMO....A 'big breeder' is someone that breeds reptiles for a living. No other main source of income besides selling reptiles and stuff pertaining to reptiles.

If you can't afford to 'quit your dayjob' in order to breed snakes, you are still just one of the many little fish swimming the seas "


Then i wrote ( i quoted the above and then posted)...
Im finally a BIG BREEDER! That was fast


According to his logic i would be a big breeder since this is all i do for a living... If you would read one of my earlier posts you would see what i think a "big breeder" is...

It would have helped if you had read the entire thread before posting...

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Add my buddy Pete Kahl to the very top of that list. :)

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Ditto that!!!

-adam

Another thing to consider is that there is a huge difference between a 'big breeder' and a 'big ball python breeder'.

There are so many other facets of this hobby besides ball pythons. Would anyone recoginize BHB or VPI if they did not produce ball pythons anymore? Sure, they produce thousands of other reptiles besides ball pythons. However if you had no interest in ball pythons, would you know who Ralph Davis is?

I think being a 'pioneer breeder' and a 'big ball python breeder' are completely different. Look at Mike Joliff for example....Is he a big part of the ball python community anymore even though he produced the first Joliff Snow?

I figured it out once.....in order to make my 'day job' salary breeding reptiles, I would have to produce around 4500 snakes each year. Thats what makes me think that if you can support your family by selling reptiles...you earn the right to be called a 'big breeder'....but after that.....it is entirely up to you to gain recognition and become a 'pioneer breeder' that is respected by the community.

To me, it's all about customer feedback. Any seller that I buy from, I carefully research and make sure that they have a great reputation.
If someone suddenly appeared on the scene, but had no feedback and good references to back themselves up, i would be leary of buying from them.

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Originally Posted by NextWorldExotics

If you would have read the post i quoted, you would have seen i was joking...
Here is the post i responded too...

"Originally Posted by daniel1983
IMO....A 'big breeder' is someone that breeds reptiles for a living. No other main source of income besides selling reptiles and stuff pertaining to reptiles.

If you can't afford to 'quit your dayjob' in order to breed snakes, you are still just one of the many little fish swimming the seas "


Then i wrote ( i quoted the above and then posted)...
Im finally a BIG BREEDER! That was fast


According to his logic i would be a big breeder since this is all i do for a living... If you would read one of my earlier posts you would see what i think a "big breeder" is...

It would have helped if you had read the entire thread before posting...

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Take it easy Jon, I knew you were joking... in fact I was just using you as an example for my opinion of WHY I consider some of those I listed as big breeders...

Again, they have huge name recognition in the hobby for many accomplishments whether it be their long term involvment or development of a morph; whereas there are several breeders I wouldn't know existed if it weren't for KS Classifieds or a forum such as this... Simple as that, I didn't need to reread your posts for your definition bud.

-Jason

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

Take it easy Jon, I knew you were joking... in fact I was just using you as an example for my opinion of WHY I consider some of those I listed as big breeders...

Again, they have huge name recognition in the hobby for many accomplishments whether it be their long term involvment or development of a morph; whereas there are several breeders I wouldn't know existed if it weren't for KS Classifieds or a forum such as this... Simple as that, I didn't need to reread your posts for your definition bud.

-Jason

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How (and why?) would you use me as an example?

Also If you would have read my earlier posts, you would have never posted what you did since we have THE SAME EXACT "DEFINITION" OF A BIG BREEDER...

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whereas there are several breeders I wouldn't know existed if it weren't for KS Classifieds or a forum such as this

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I used you as an example for one of those breeders...

Is there something else you want to hear Jon? I'm done corresponding with you. Good luck with all of your sales this year.:)

Hello everyone,

I thought this was a particularly interesting thread... Celia mentioned it to me so I thought I'd throw in a word or two...

I've been breeding reptiles for about 12 years now, only involved in the commercial side for about 7 of those 12. I've dealt with all types of people selling reptiles over the years and I can only think of two major types of people in this business. PROFESSIONALS and UNPROFESSIONALS!

I've had long term business relationships with most of the same people for years. Some of them for the full extent of my keeping/breeding experience. Its always interesting to see the way people change over time. I've dealt with a few breeders that were of the highest caliber of professionals when we began our relationship and over time, as cash flow decreased, they became utterly unprofessional. There are those that see a future in a client, not just the amount of money that they can spend in the beginning but how much business can be done with them over the course of a sucessful relationship.

My idea of a PROFESSIONAL is someone who will help you through the thick and thin of the hobby/business. When you NEED to know how to safely ship a package of reptiles in the dead of winter or blaze of summer, they walk you through it. When you want to kow how to build an affordable rack or cage system for snakes and/or feeder rodents, they show you or tell you how to do so. When you have that ONE special egg going bad, they tell you what has worked for them time and time again. That is a true professional and someone that we ALL need to do business with.

If I am considered a "big", "bigger" or "mid-way" breeder it matters not to me as long as you consider us to be professionals! People come and go in this business professional or not, just remember who was there to help you on your way. I have a TON of people to thank for my sucess, I hope you all do too!

Remember... all the big guys and gals were small at some point!

P.S.... Just an after thought... I was 14 years old when I bought a Gray-Banded Kingsnake from Brian and Lori Barczyk of BHB Enterprises at the Oralndo show in 1994. We still do business to this very day.

Oh... and... people with large collections are FREAKING NUTZ!!! Just check my avatar!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! ;)

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Originally Posted by Sean : EbN

Hello everyone,

I thought this was a particularly interesting thread... Celia mentioned it to me so I thought I'd throw in a word or two...

I've been breeding reptiles for about 12 years now, only involved in the commercial side for about 7 of those 12. I've dealt with all types of people selling reptiles over the years and I can only think of two major types of people in this business. PROFESSIONALS and UNPROFESSIONALS!

I've had long term business relationships with most of the same people for years. Some of them for the full extent of my keeping/breeding experience. Its always interesting to see the way people change over time. I've dealt with a few breeders that were of the highest caliber of professionals when we began our relationship and over time, as cash flow decreased, they became utterly unprofessional. There are those that see a future in a client, not just the amount of money that they can spend in the beginning but how much business can be done with them over the course of a sucessful relationship.

My idea of a PROFESSIONAL is someone who will help you through the thick and thin of the hobby/business. When you NEED to know how to safely ship a package of reptiles in the dead of winter or blaze of summer, they walk you through it. When you want to kow how to build an affordable rack or cage system for snakes and/or feeder rodents, they show you or tell you how to do so. When you have that ONE special egg going bad, they tell you what has worked for them time and time again. That is a true professional and someone that we ALL need to do business with.

If I am considered a "big", "bigger" or "mid-way" breeder it matters not to me as long as you consider us to be professionals! People come and go in this business professional or not, just remember who was there to help you on your way. I have a TON of people to thank for my sucess, I hope you all do too!

Remember... all the big guys and gals were small at some point!

P.S.... Just an after thought... I was 14 years old when I bought a Gray-Banded Kingsnake from Brian and Lori Barczyk of BHB Enterprises at the Oralndo show in 1994. We still do business to this very day.

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bravo simply bravo
(claps hands loudly)