1/2'' hardwire cloth too big for ASF!!!!

I've had several weanling Asf's escape through the rat racks I have where I use 1/2'' hardwire cloth. I've since switched to 1/4'' which is commonly used on homemade mouse racks. That solved the problem.

Don't house them in your rat racks unless their grown and not producing babies because they will escape.

Just a my :2cent:
larry

Another observation I've noticed with Asf's. I've had a litter or two where the mother Asf died so I orphaned the babies off to rat mommies each time the Asf's turned out tame as a kitten in adulthood.

Dunno rats moms must be a strong influence on aggressiveness because all the offspring have been calm and very tame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

I've had several weanling Asf's escape through the rat racks I have where I use 1/2'' hardwire cloth. I've since switched to 1/4'' which is commonly used on homemade mouse racks. That solved the problem.

Don't house them in your rat racks unless their grown and not producing babies because they will escape.

Just a my :2cent:
larry

---

Larry...I figure I am going to have the same issue very soon. Have you had any issues with your adult ASF being able to eat from the 1/4". Did you just end up cutting a hole for the water bottle somewhere?

Lj, Yup I just cut a small hole for the bottles and feed with bowls b/c I've noticed the Asf's don't seem to do well from food hoppers.

make the switch soon b/c you'll start loosing them

Well I guess I know what I am doing tomorrow.:D Thanks for the info.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

Lj, Yup I just cut a small hole for the bottles and feed with bowls b/c I've noticed the Asf's don't seem to do well from food hoppers.

make the switch soon b/c you'll start loosing them

---

You'll be glad you did..lol at least 1/4'' is a lot easier to work with. Good luck Sean

Seems like theres a different problem every week with these rats. yep, the big litters that these young mothers have will kill them, seems like all the babies just suck the mother dry. I pull the mothers to raise their babies alone and when you try to put the mother back into the breeding group she came from....trouble. the mothers will deciede to kill the babies when they are half grown for no obvious reason. gonna just feed off all these ASF rats and focus on the regular rats. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

Another observation I've noticed with Asf's. I've had a litter or two where the mother Asf died so I orphaned the babies off to rat mommies each time the Asf's turned out tame as a kitten in adulthood.

Dunno rats moms must be a strong influence on aggressiveness because all the offspring have been calm and very tame.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ECLARK

Seems like theres a different problem every week with these rats. yep, the big litters that these young mothers have will kill them, seems like all the babies just suck the mother dry. I pull the mothers to raise their babies alone and when you try to put the mother back into the breeding group she came from....trouble. the mothers will deciede to kill the babies when they are half grown for no obvious reason. gonna just feed off all these ASF rats and focus on the regular rats. :)

---

Ed...have you had all these problems or just heard of them? So far I haven't had any issues...outside the potential that they are smaller so I need to adjust their caging requirements...but this would be the case of any new animal. My first 2 litters seem to be going just fine with no issues.

I thought it was fairly well known that ASF enclosures have to be mouse proof.

As for the rat foster idea, I'll have to give that a shot next time I have a rat litter. I've thought about going the other way, fostering rats with ASF just because they have so many extra teats, but for some reason never considered putting an ASF with a rat mother.

Mine seem to feed okay from mouse bar spacing on wire top lab cages, but that';s not the same as 1/4" mesh.

Hey Ed I noticed that too so just started putting them in groups of 1.2 and stopped pulling the pregos since then I haven't had too many issues.

I think they are so "new" to most people that there are a lot of tricks and knowledge that isn't disseminated widely yet. But I keep reading and learning. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flagg

I thought it was fairly well known that ASF enclosures have to be mouse proof.

As for the rat foster idea, I'll have to give that a shot next time I have a rat litter. I've thought about going the other way, fostering rats with ASF just because they have so many extra teats, but for some reason never considered putting an ASF with a rat mother.

Mine seem to feed okay from mouse bar spacing on wire top lab cages, but that';s not the same as 1/4" mesh.

---

Im talking about my problems with them, found 2 big litters this weekend that were killed by their mothers for no reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lord jackel

Ed...have you had all these problems or just heard of them? So far I haven't had any issues...outside the potential that they are smaller so I need to adjust their caging requirements...but this would be the case of any new animal. My first 2 litters seem to be going just fine with no issues.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

Hey Ed I noticed that too so just started putting them in groups of 1.2 and stopped pulling the pregos since then I haven't had too many issues.

---

So don't pull the pregnant females from their enclosures, and leave the male with them...or remove him into another enclosure?

When I left the prego mothers in with the group(1.5) they would eat all the babies, thats why I tried separating them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JBallPython

So don't pull the pregnant females from their enclosures, and leave the male with them...or remove him into another enclosure?

---

Jbp, I'm not all the way sure just yet but I am having success leaving the males in with the mommy and babies. I do know for sure that their not near as social as rats so mixing and matching groups doesn't work so well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ECLARK

When I left the prego mothers in with the group(1.5) they would eat all the babies, thats why I tried separating them.

---

Good information to know, thanks Ed!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

Jbp, I'm not all the way sure just yet but I am having success leaving the males in with the mommy and babies. I do know for sure that their not near as social as rats so mixing and matching groups doesn't work so well.

---

I suppose I'll have to play around a bit with mixing groups. I'm picking up five trios on Tuesday from Bill. I'm going to split them up into groups of 1.2 for breeding, otherwise two females to an enclosure and the males in another to rotate through each pair of females...however I know that may change.

Thanks for the tips guys!

-Jason

I'm thinking their more like breeding mice kind of slow getting started with some deaths and chewed babies then the groups/colonies get used to each other and all is well. Just my opinion

I leave the male with the females and the babies...I have never had them kill any babies...I have them set up in a 1.3 group...

Already decieded to feed them all off, they are not the solution I was looking for. :confuzd: and never any fun to work with. my regular rats... you can reach in and pick them up by the belly and they are a pleasure to work with. :P

you see there we're learning 1.2 good 1.3 good 1.5 bad news

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ECLARK

Already decieded to feed them all off, they are not the solution I was looking for. :confuzd: and never any fun to work with. my regular rats... you can reach in and pick them up by the belly and they are a pleasure to work with. :P

---

Well I can certainly understand...too bad I don't live closer and I would take them off your hands for ya. :)

I've never had babies eaten, and mine often have large communal piles of young, 30 or more at a time of various ages.

Sounds like either overcrowding or a diet issue. Or they don't have nest boxes. I've heard of them killing young if they aren't provided with nest or hide boxes so they feel safe.

Mine are all 1.3 or 1.4 in 10 or 15 gal size tanks and lab tubs.

I don't think I've run into these problems but would be good for you folks to document this on the asf site for others. (sorry not an intentional plug just trying to keep data easily accessible). I am using 1/2" on my tubs but I don't have a "rack" setup like I think some of you do. I am using larger tubs that are taller and haven't had any escapes that I know of. Rodent traps and a very O.C. Jack Russel Terrier would let me know if I had escapees ;) Anyway I do have food water holders hanging from the lids that are made of the same mesh but I never see hoppers/weanlings able to squeeze through.

I think with the breeding groups most of us are finding that certain numbers work along with a relative space/territory. I started with 1.2 and left the male in and have had no problems. Now I primarily I will put 1 male in with groups of 3 females until I can visibly see a pregnant female. The male is then removed and the 3 females left together. This seems to be working for me and all females help raise litter(s). With this method though sometimes its a bit of a game to reintroduce males as the females can become aggressive. There are general methods of reintroduction that I use that usually work. One thing to note is that I would not ever recommend introducing a new male into a breeding group of females unless he is full grown and somewhat established in his primary group.

I have been breeding them for about a year. I go with 1.3 and leave them all together until weaning. I have never lost a baby that I have noticed at least. I love them. I have quite a few female BP's that are gravid that would not have even been close to breeding size without the ASF's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ECLARK

Already decieded to feed them all off, they are not the solution I was looking for. :confuzd: and never any fun to work with. my regular rats... you can reach in and pick them up by the belly and they are a pleasure to work with. :P

---

Rock on brother! I see no reason to work with the nasty little critters. So far I have seen nothing that would make me buy ASF rats. I like my plain old vanilla rats. They are a pleasure to handle, wonderful mothers and easy to work with.