african rats - and back to normal rats?

anyone tried feeding these african rats to their snakes for any period of time and then seeing if they'll transfer effortlessly over to normal ratties?

i'm curious because if someone gets their snakes on these 'specialty' ratties and then the snakes are sold/rehomed to someone who only has normal ratties... will they eat?

I've been feeding my corn snakes normal rats, mice, and ASF rats. I haven't tried for extended periods of time but I will feed them ASF for 3 or 4 feedings then switch back to a rat or mouse. Never seem to have any problems eating any of the 3. If anything my 05 male seems to like normal rats better but he eats all 3.

I've phased out the mouse colonies so as time goes on they will be eating more and more just ASF rats and less of the others mixed in. I only breed the domestic rats occasionally,

I only just recently got my first ball python, a very small female normal just recentty hatched I believe. She's been eating exclusively live hopper ASF rats for a month and a half now. As she settles in I'm going to try to transition her to F/T ASF but I don't plan on feeding her anything else. I might try a live rat next time I have a domestic rat litter, but everything else is frozen.

A month and a half is not enough IMO. I want to see what 6 months of ASF would do as far as switching it to domestic rats goes.

yes and on ball pythons, not corns or boas as they are switch hitters... they don't care what they eat most of the time LOL

so... come on, i know there's people here breeding the ASF rats, - what's the scoop?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

yes and on ball pythons, not corns or boas as they are switch hitters... they don't care what they eat most of the time LOL

so... come on, i know there's people here breeding the ASF rats, - what's the scoop?

---

We need Heath or Ed to chime in as they are pry the 2 who have been breeding (and feeding) them the longest, I am sure they will stop by sooner or later.

I just started so I won't know for awhile...but based on feedback(when I asked this questions) so far I haven't heard from anyone who has seen an imprinting issue with ASF.

Ihave ball pythons, and I fed african soft furred off and on to several different ones. They eat the africans, and the regular rats without any issues as to which one it is.
Have I fed exclusively ASF for 6 months? No. I have however started some bp hatchlings on ASF, and I fed two balls ASF for a while, then switched back(ran out of ASF).
I haven't seen any issues with imprinting.
Wolfy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

A month and a half is not enough IMO. I want to see what 6 months of ASF would do as far as switching it to domestic rats goes.

---

So get some ASF rats and try it yourself. Most people breeding them have only just started in the past 6 months.

Why should others have to take the risk of feeding them exclusively?

Information was asked for and I gave what experience I have had, sorry if it's not good enough for you people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flagg

So get some ASF rats and try it yourself. Most people breeding them have only just started in the past 6 months.

Why should others have to take the risk of feeding them exclusively?

Information was asked for and I gave what experience I have had, sorry if it's not good enough for you people.

---

I was not criticizing you for giving that information. You specifically said that you just got your ball python so I was not asking you. I said that in case anyone else saw that and thought of if it was eating ASF for a month and a half and goes to rats, it is okay. I would try, but there are nowhere around here that sells ASF and I am not driving 2 or 3 hours to get some. If I could find a place, I would be first in line for em.

To be completely honest the answer your looking for will not be found by anyone but yourself and your own experience. I personally have fed mice or rats for a a time period while I transitioned over to asf rats and did not have a problem. As of now, it has been several months since I have fed anything other than asf rats.

No one can give you a clear cut YES or NO...or even tell you that you shouldn't try it. Every snake is going to be different, in how it reacts to a different prey item. Some may take asf rats with gusto like you have never seen before, others may take time to transition, and still some may not accept them at all.

I really try and be as clear and honest as possible with people when they ask about them. There is no guarantee that asf rats will get a non feeding snake eating. There are to many factors and other reasons for a snake to be off food to simply rely on a change of food to be the answer. They are simply an alternative food source and I will be so bold to say that the success rate has been very positive.

Without causing "opinions" to flare up, I think those interested should make their own decision based on their own animals and experiences.

You may want to post this question on the asf rat site where you will get more individuals who can share their experiences.

*Hopefully I didn't sounds harsh in any of this...not my intention :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

anyone tried feeding these african rats to their snakes for any period of time and then seeing if they'll transfer effortlessly over to normal ratties?

i'm curious because if someone gets their snakes on these 'specialty' ratties and then the snakes are sold/rehomed to someone who only has normal ratties... will they eat?

---

my original questions was... will the asf eating snakes eat regular ratties once they are rehomed?

anyone have any experience with this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

my original questions was... will the asf eating snakes eat regular ratties once they are rehomed?

anyone have any experience with this?

---

Aleesha I think Tek has answered your question

Quote:

---

No one can give you a clear cut YES or NO...or even tell you that you shouldn't try it. Every snake is going to be different, in how it reacts to a different prey item. Some may take asf rats with gusto like you have never seen before, others may take time to transition, and still some may not accept them at all.

---

This is the same as asking if you feed rats for a long time will your snake eat a mouse. Every snake is unique in what it will/won't eat so I agree no one can answer your question...if they could the answer would only be valid for that one snake.

i was wondering... if anyone had rehomed/sold asf eating snakes and how they did when they no longer had the food item. i wasn't asking how they transferred to asf ratties... but rather how they did when the asf ratties were no longer available to them.

it's pretty well known that in most cases an older ball won't change it's prey item... it's rather rare from what i've read here and learned from adam directly (in email conversations) - whereas young balls will change their prey item easier.

from the knowledge i've gathered, it seems you are more likely to get a mouse eating ball to take ratties and less likely to get a rattie eating ball to take mice.

so, from this knowledge i was pondering... would an asf eating ball transfer over to regular ratties with no problems or are experienced people (with asf) finding that *insert percentage here* will not transfer over thereby creating a problem for the new owner. this new owner does not have the option of purchasing live or frozen prey from their local pet store... instead they have to breed their own food for their snake.

perhaps asf is too new on the scene for me to find the answers i'm seeking. :confuzd:

I think you are exactly correct. Now that I understand your specific question. I can't personally answer or know anyone who has been feeding asf rats for much more than a year...but that doesn't mean that no one has. If I could easily get rats I would be more apt to buy them once and a while yet but the show near me makes me nervous sometimes and there are no reasonably priced pet shops around. Not that that would really give you even the slightest idea of a percentage. In the end it really does still come down to the individual animal things like age definitely add to the equation. I still suggest you post on the asf forum there are a number of folks wondering over some outside the US that may have run into the type of situation your inquiring about.

I just had another thought. To me its obvious if I where selling to be completely honest in what the reptiles are feeding on. This is the responsibility of any seller. I think it would take some careful consideration and alot of communication as to if someone was dead set on purchasing a certain animal that had been raised on or currently feeding on asf rats...but could not get them to continue with that prey item. *Insert anti-asf comment here* Again there is no guarantee young or old a snake will switch back. At this stage in the game if it where me and I was producing clutches that I knew I was going to be selling I would probably start them on mice however I know that asf rats are available in MI and the availability is spreading. This to me is the only draw back but it will not be the case forever.

Every ASF breeder I know of that also breeds and/or sells snakes has told me they do NOT feed ASF to the snakes to be sold. So as far as I know, nobody has experienced your scenario.
It would be sort of stupid to knowingly feed a rare prey item to a snake that you are planning on selling.

Logic would suggest that on the whole the snakes would switch back. Consider the vast numbers of adult WC animals that come into the country every year. They have been raised their entire life on some sort of African rat. Yet we are able to convert them to our domestic rat or mouse. Why would a CB be any different?

true... but how many of those wild caughts never do eat. how many die instead?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

true... but how many of those wild caughts never do eat. how many die instead?

---

The world may never know.:D But we do know that 1000's perhaps 10's or even 100's of 1000's do survive and are switched over.

So your question is has anyone every feed exclusively an African rat to their ball python and then got them to switch over and the answer would be yes....1000's have they just didn't realize it.

Reading your mind...the next question is what is an acceptable success/failure rate of this conversion? Now this comes back to the new owner.

Just my small brain logic trying to work:D

hey, your small brain is working well today. perhaps tomorrow we'll work on your big brain :rofl:




hahahahahahahahahaha i crack myself up hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

hey, your small brain is working well today. perhaps tomorrow we'll work on your big brain :rofl:




hahahahahahahahahaha i crack myself up hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

---

I had a witty comback buy your dancing chicken is hypnotic and I....................................................................

Yes Mistress Aleesha.....:rolleye2:

*rubbing hands together* it's working... it's working!!!! *menacing laughter drifts off into the fog*

I suppose I could chime in here, not that it is much different than what everyone else has said. I breed asf rats. I started around december...so not that long ago. I was very curious about whether my ball python would get hooked on this new prey. I fed him a live asf rat (keep in mind he has been eating f/t rat pups) and he was thrilled with the new diet. I fed him live asf rats about three more times with success. Then, I decided to try a f/t....he refused. My heart sank, I didnt want to have to breed these rats forever! I waited a week, then tried again...only this time I made sure the f/t rat pup really put on a show for my snake...I did the rat zombie dance and he struck and ate it. Then I tried a live asf rat the next week. SUCCESS...then I alternated to a f/t regular rat....and he ate it. But then he went into a fast and refused EVERYTHING for about a month so now he is on live asf rats again.....he refused it three times but he happily started eating again (thank goodness!)

So what have I learned? Well, my snake doesn't seem to be too picky about it unless he is fasting. Then, he wants nothing at all. I feel it comes down to proper husbandry and the snake itself. I probably will breed asf rats for a long time because I enjoy it, its new, its easy and practical, and stryker likes it too. If I were a breeder, I would probably not feed asf rats in case you get picky snakes in the clutch and seeing as how asf rats aren't quite available everywhere, it isn't smart. More breeders of asf rats need to experiment and record their findings and even still I doubt we will have a definitive answer.

I think if you are keeping the snake and don't mind breeding the asf rats, its the way to go....

do you think, perhaps that the reason you ended up with the fast was because you were alternating back and forth between prey items in such a short period of time?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

from the knowledge i've gathered, it seems you are more likely to get a mouse eating ball to take ratties and less likely to get a rattie eating ball to take mice.

---

What?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

true... but how many of those wild caughts never do eat. how many die instead?

---

VPI states in their book, Pythons of the World Vol. II, that the only WC animals they still purchase are new expensive morphs, and they have not lost one as a result of not being able to transition to being kept in captivity. If you acquire a wild-caught animal and do not understand how to transition them, then yes, they are easy to kill. I don't think this has anything to do with what type of prey item you are offering.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

from the knowledge i've gathered, it seems you are more likely to get a mouse-eating ball python to take ratties and less likely to get a rattie-eating ball python to take mice.

---

does that help?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolfsnaps

I suppose I could chime in here, not that it is much different than what everyone else has said. I breed asf rats. I started around december...so not that long ago. I was very curious about whether my ball python would get hooked on this new prey. I fed him a live asf rat (keep in mind he has been eating f/t rat pups) and he was thrilled with the new diet. I fed him live asf rats about three more times with success. Then, I decided to try a f/t....he refused. My heart sank, I didnt want to have to breed these rats forever! I waited a week, then tried again...only this time I made sure the f/t rat pup really put on a show for my snake...I did the rat zombie dance and he struck and ate it. Then I tried a live asf rat the next week. SUCCESS...then I alternated to a f/t regular rat....and he ate it. But then he went into a fast and refused EVERYTHING for about a month so now he is on live asf rats again.....he refused it three times but he happily started eating again (thank goodness!)

So what have I learned? Well, my snake doesn't seem to be too picky about it unless he is fasting. Then, he wants nothing at all. I feel it comes down to proper husbandry and the snake itself. I probably will breed asf rats for a long time because I enjoy it, its new, its easy and practical, and stryker likes it too. If I were a breeder, I would probably not feed asf rats in case you get picky snakes in the clutch and seeing as how asf rats aren't quite available everywhere, it isn't smart. More breeders of asf rats need to experiment and record their findings and even still I doubt we will have a definitive answer.

I think if you are keeping the snake and don't mind breeding the asf rats, its the way to go....

---

I think the problem with your situation was more from switching back and forth from live to F/t. I think if you were going back and forth with live ASF and regular rats you wouldn't have any problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

does that help?

---

What I don't understand is why it would be easier for a ball to switch from mice to rats than from rats to mice.

from what i've read... rats seem to be yummier.

as i said in my original post... it's from the knowledge i've gathered... not scientific research, just from listening to others experiences.

Big concern was feeding ASF rats for awhile then trying to switch back to regulars and have the BP'S not accept the regulars again. so Im useing the ASF rats for only the problem feeders and getting slow starters to start feeding, Im surprised at how they will eat ASF rats when they wont even look at anything else. my thoughts about these smaller rats would keep me from having to dispose of X number of regular rats every week because they just got to big to feed. I hate the ASF rats and they presented me with to many problems and I choose not to work with them any longer. if I need a few I will just buy them. :P

something I wanted to add. wild caught Balls that would almost never feed on anything will almost always take ASF rats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

anyone tried feeding these african rats to their snakes for any period of time and then seeing if they'll transfer effortlessly over to normal ratties?

i'm curious because if someone gets their snakes on these 'specialty' ratties and then the snakes are sold/rehomed to someone who only has normal ratties... will they eat?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ECLARK

something I wanted to add. wild caught Balls that would almost never feed on anything will almost always take ASF rats.

---

Unless you feed them Gerbils, then you're screwed...:P

I have a friend that has a WC female that refused every rat and mouse put in front of it, the only food he's had it accept were live gerbils, I gave him an extra male (that Wild Bill gave me today) to see if she would take that, and she refused. But then he presented her with a gerbil, and got an immediate feeding response! We're going to try and wean her off gerbils with scenting ASF and regular rats.

-Jason