Ball Python Breeding Banned

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/216855/


DAILY HERALD (Provo, Utah) 05 April 07 P.G. bans ball python breeding (Laura Giles)
Pleasant Grove said no to ball pythons on Tuesday.
At a quarter to midnight, council members voted 4-1 not to allow the serpents to breed in home-based businesses in Pleasant Grove. The ordinance would have allowed animal husbandry of unique and exotic animals in a single-family residential area.
Residents James and Pamela Cantrell, who requested the ordinance so they could raise the reptiles in their home, have been working with the city for five months.
"The only reason I think is compelling to go against this is the property values," said Councilman Bruce Call, after resident Herb Carlson expressed concern that property values would fall if the snakes were allowed.
The matter had been put on hold while city staff attempted to include a classification of exotic, non-dangerous animals and strict guidelines for use in a home-based business. The classification was to have included non-poisonous snakes, amphibians and turtles.
Resident Melanie Aird spoke against allowing the snakes, saying she was concerned about salmonella, odors, how waste is disposed of and waste water drainage.
"Cats carry 17 diseases that can be transmitted to humans; reptiles carry one," said Pamela Cantrell in response.
"It's just not a residential issue. This should be in a farm area," Aird said. "These are families with children."
Carl Clark, whose son lives in the neighborhood of the proposed business, raised the issue of accountability.
"I've raised a lot of animals in my life. No matter how hard you try, they escape. Who will be responsible?" he said.
Clark's wife, Leonette, said residents in the area were angry the city was considering allowing the snakes.
"They're going to be selling their places," she said.
The Cantrells assured the council that issues of odor, excrement and safety would be dealt with according to the strict standards outlined in the proposed ordinance. The standards came from the National Reptile Improvement Plan. They said the only way for snakes to get out would be for someone to open the drawer they were in.
The Cantrells' business was to have 50 breeder snakes, each housed in individual bins in one room of their home.
"I don't think this is the kind of business for a home," said Councilman Mark Atwood, noting that though ball pythons are not dangerous, people do mistakenly believe that they are.
"We don't know what we'll do now," said James Cantrell after the decision. The couple indicated that they will either end their business or move to an agricultural area.

Free Country... ahahahahahaha, ya right...

wow... i'm speechless.

That's nuts. It's because people are afraid of snakes. Plain and simple. That really ticks me off.
GRRR!!! I can't even make coherent sense of my anger about this issue!!!
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Hey Aleesha, were you aware that they are trying to pass similar legislation in your province? It seems it started out in Vancouver, and now they are recommending the rest of the province get on board. Perhaps theres something you could do to help with this? It would be a shame if this bill were to pass :( Here is an article, I'll let you know what else I can find out ;) EDIT: Since this article was published, the ban did in fact pass in Vancouver prohibiting most exotics and now they are trying to do the same provincewide

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VANCOUVER - City staff are recommending the city ban the keeping and sale of lions, tigers, wild dogs, crocodiles and some lizards and snakes for reasons of safety and animal welfare.

And in an effort to get similar bylaws enacted throughout B.C., the report, written by the office of the chief licence inspector, suggests Mayor Sam Sullivan send a letter to the Union of B.C. Municipalities urging the adoption of a provincewide list of banned exotic animals.

If council approves the recommendation Feb. 1, Vancouver will join Langley, Richmond, Surrey, Abbotsford, New Westminster, the City and District of North Vancouver and 12 communities outside the Lower Mainland in what has become a growing campaign by local jurisdictions to curb the trade in exotic pets.

"Vancouver has an opportunity to get on board, so let's get to it," said Coun. Kim Capri who, with help from the Vancouver Humane Society, asked staff to prepare the report last year.

Capri said she was "thrilled" with the outcome, except she thinks the list of restricted species also should include amphibians.

"My guess is when this comes to committee, we will likely hear from animal lovers who say there are other things we could be adding on," she said.

Capri said an "overwhelming majority" of the public support the initiative, and "the only people who are opposed are people who profit from the sale of [exotics]."

The report, issued last week, says only three independent pet stores sell exotic animals in the city, but notes they are also available through private sale, and that many national and regional pet store chains "promote the keeping of exotic/wild animals as pets."

Last June, a 1.5-metre crocodile fell out of a third-storey apartment on West Fourth Avenue. The report said that incident "reaffirmed the need to take a closer look at the issue."

Vancouver Humane Society representative Peter Fricker said: "It's clear the city has recognized that exotic animals suffer in captivity and that they pose a threat to public health and safety.

"We think the proposed list of banned animals could be longer [it should include primates, iguanas, monitor lizards and wolf-dog hybrids, he said] but this is a great step forward for animal welfare in Vancouver."

Cam McOuat, a co-owner of Aquariums West pet store on Burrard, said while he supports a ban on the sale of large and dangerous animals, such as pythons and crocodiles, the new law will do nothing to prevent the underground sale of exotic animals and is another example of the city interfering in something that doesn't need addressing.

"A lot of these things are rhetoric," he said, "and when the rubber meets the road, you'll find there ain't too much rubber on the road."

He also said it won't affect his ability to sell such reptiles and amphibians as geckos, skinks, frogs, anoles and chameleons.

Paul Springate, curator of the Rainforest Reptile Refuge in Surrey, said 99 per cent of the more than 300 animals at the refuge -- which include large and dangerous snakes and lizards -- are discarded pets.

The bylaw also would ban the use of wild and/or exotic animals in public performances, events and exhibitions. The city has prohibited the use of such animals in circuses since 1992, but there are no restrictions on using them in other kinds of performances.

Bylaw to Ban Some Animals From Vancouver

If enacted, a proposed bylaw would prohibit the keeping of the following animals within city limits:

- Snakes: green anaconda, yellow anaconda, reticulated python, African rock python, Burmese python, Indian python, amethyst python

- Hyenas

- Crocodilians, including alligators and crocodiles

- All venomous reptiles

- Canids such as wolves, jackals, coyotes and foxes

- Felids such as lions and tigers

- Bears

It also would prohibit the following species from being sold:

- Canids

- Cetaceans, including whales, dolphins, porpoises

- Crocodilians

- Edentates, including anteaters, sloths, armadillos

- Elephants

- Felids, including lions and tigers

- Green iguanas

- Hyenas

- Insectivores, except African pygmy hedgehogs

- Marsupials, except sugar gliders

- Mutelids (skunks, weasels, otters), except domesticated ferrets

- Non-human primates

- Pinnipeds (seals, walruses)

- Raccoons

- Birds of prey

- Ostriches

- Rodents, except domestic hamsters, guinea pigs, chinchillas, rats and mice

- Pythons and anacondas

- Turtles and turtle eggs

- Ungulates, except goats, sheep, pigs, cattle, horses, mules, donkeys, llamas and alpacas

- Bears

- Venomous spiders and insects

- Venomous reptiles

- Mongooses, civets, genets

Source: City of Vancouver

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Before I went ahead and posted this I tried to find out some more for you, and this is what I found.

Keep in mind this is just in Vancouver as of now but could go provincewide... You can keep BPs, but not sell any. The giants are banned period, both the keeping and sales. But the ban on sales applies to all Pythons even Balls, Childrens etc... Here comes the worst part IMO A person must not keep in any area temporarily or permanently, at any one time ,more than 6 reptiles (including snakes of any kind) :(

wow..this is nuts..they should get a snake of there own and see how nice they are..i mean they chill inside a tank, they should spend more time worrying about drunking crackheads running the streets with guns and put them in a tank you know?

Sounds like the beginning of the end

who are these "council members", and how do they feel they have the right to say no to this? If it's a home based business, then there should be no say so on what goes on behind closed doors...right?

People really need to be educated about animals they don't know anything about. The problem is, if they are banning them from public performance and exhibition, as listed, will kids ever get to touch and hold reptiles in schools and realize that they aren't as dangerous as some people would have them believe? This is insane.

This is outragous. Maybe some of the more knowledgable keepers should start making short educational video clips for youtube about how safe ball pythons are, with some good facts about keeping and breeding them. Especially people with important suffix' after their names. Could be a good start. Or maybe places like NERD setting up educational destinations for field trips so kids, parents and teachers can learn just how good of a pet or biology class (or any class) mascot a ball python makes. The arguments of these people don't make any sense whatsoever, and it's clear they just have fear born of ignorance.

To quote Michael Jackson on South Park
*in a soft, high pitched voice* "That's ignorant. You're ignorant. That's ignorant. Don't be ignorant"

I hate it when a story of a snake killing a child gets way out of hand. I mean yes this is the most traggic thing ever but whos fault is it usually. It ends up being a burmese python someone bought as a baby and it got too big for them and they keep it in the basement and never feed it. Baby gets loose, crawls downstairs and apparently the snake should have known it was a baby. People go nuts and ban them from the county. They need to take a look at pitbull accidents before snakes. Its insanity.

you can see i don't read newspapers or watch the news... i had no idea :eek: thanks for the heads up chris.

i'm going to contact some of the breeders who are local and ask them what they know about this,... and what they are doing and see if i can assist in anyway. IF they aren't doing anything... which i can't imagine... i'll cross that bridge when i get to it.

i know i'm considered rural... so some things which affect the city don't affect me... but as a provincial issue... this is insane!

First the Sutherlands have problems, now this. Utah is fast becoming less and less herp friendly. I was saddened to hear this yesterday.

-Evan

Yea, this isn't good news....:(

wow I sure hope florida will be the last place they make crazy homaphobic laws like that. The majority of americans are frightened by snakes. Need to get over it...

I cant stand the wrong speculations snakes have on the world. I hear things like " I kill snakes because they chase me in the yard. " I hate snakes becuase there slimy. "I hate snakes becuase there a symbol of the devil. These are the dumbasses that go and fight for these laws.

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Originally Posted by crisstyle21

wow I sure hope florida will be the last place they make crazy homaphobic laws like that. The majority of americans are frightened by snakes. Need to get over it...

I cant stand the wrong speculations snakes have on the world. I hear things like " I kill snakes because they chase me in the yard. " I hate snakes becuase there slimy. "I hate snakes becuase there a symbol of the devil. These are the dumbasses that go and fight for these laws.

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People fear what they don't understand. Education about our hobby and responsible keepers is our only hope. Misunderstanding combined with fear added to an accident caused by irresponsibility would spell the down fall of any hobby from bird watching to stamp commecting.

Certain things can be done only in areas for commercial or agricultrual zoning...and there will always be restrictions on animal. There are tons of 'restrictions' on this sort of thing already in place although they may not concern reptiles.....reptile keepers are growing in number so it was only a matter of time that local officials felt the need to put an ordinance on it. I deal with this kinda stuff all the time. I know of neighborhoods with restrictions on the community that state that no animals are to be left unattended outside of the home under penalty of fines(that means you can't let your dog run around in the backyard unsupervised), parishes that limit the number of animals kept per acre of land, cities that restrict the number of cats/dogs per household....I could go on and on about subdivision, town, city, and parish ordinances.

LMAO.....some subdivision restrictions around here are out of this world. Some keep you from having certain things on your property(ie. boats, RVs, campers), prevent hanging certain decorations on your home for holidays/occasion, require certain maintance and appearance of your lawn and garden.....

....I have found that there is only one thing to do if you don't agree with a local ordinance......move or try not to live there in the first place.

These sorts of restriction on reptiles are going to continue to increase as the size of the community increases. The best solution is to educate as many a possible, so that when these restrictions are placed....they are done responsibly instead of carelessly based on fear, myths, etc.

If I can suggest only one thing Aleesha, it would be to downplay the breeding and or selling/trading for profit aspect in any conversation you may have with any authority figures. I'm sure you saw this quote from the City Councillor...

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an "overwhelming majority" of the public support the initiative, and "the only people who are opposed are people who profit from the sale of [exotics]."

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As far as the breeders around there doing anything about it.... I'm not sure that they are the best candidates to deal with this, as they would just fit the description in the above quote and likely just be blown off.

Perhaps you could try to get some people involved in your community that don't have anything to do with the breeding or sales of reptiles, just some people that like herps or other exotics but dont necessarily own any.

Maybe you could try to get some more people into herps in your area? Have an "open house" kind of thing for the community, where people can come see your herps and interact with them so that they see for themselves that there is nothing to fear? This would help with the "ignorance breeds fear" aspect that generally plays a big part in these types of bans ;)

I'm not really sure of the best ways to go about it. All I do know is that I dont like to see this kind of thing anywhere, because if it happens in somebody elses hometown, you can rest assured that someone will try to do the same in yours ;)

Like I said in PM, if you need something, hit me up ;)

I wouldn't have said anything in the first place. Don't ask don't tell. It's their property, they pay for it and everything on it. The town should have no say unless it was something big like a big boids/pythons or hots. But little Ball Pythons? Ridiculous. But I'm loud and don't like to go quietly about things. I'd make a huge stink about it. I just hope they can find a place where people have brains and will welcome the educational opportunities that many breeders offer.

chris i hear ya. i do want to know what avenue they are going in though. i'm not a breeder... only have one ball python at this point anyways... my concern is the bylaw being passed and no one being able to have one as a pet. :( that would suck.

i've contacted any and every one i know who has herps... alas... the list is smaller than you can imagine... most of my herper friends are not from bc... they are over the net.

I'd move if they said no breeding boas, breeding balls I could live with but boas are my life

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

I'd move if they said no breeding boas, breeding balls I could live with but boas are my life

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What if there was nowhere to move? What if boas were banned all across North America? Would you move to Central America?

Thats why these bans fire me up so much.. None of these bans mentioned apply to me in any way, but they are still of great concern to me because it's only a matter of time before they try to do the same thing where I live! And I do not want that!!

So I feel a responsibility to try and nip these things in the bud BEFORE they apply to me ;)

"Oh well, doesnt apply to me" doesnt cut it in my books, because one day it could very well apply to you ;) (this is not directed at anyone in particular, just wanted to provoke some thought in those who might be sitting there thinking " I dont live there, who cares? doesnt affect me")

Ugh. I hate bans. :mad:

chris is sooooo right. wish he wasn't... but alas... he is :rainon:

this is insane! the people that decide these ridiculous laws! they do need to learn a thing or two about animals!

Sad...

some freakin people cant accept the truth when they hear it.

this type of things comes up cause of peoples misconsception that all snakes are cold blooded killers... and they think this cause of any movie theyve seen with snakes in them, and any movie you see like anaconda or snakes on a plane anrt even real life situations....so basicaly we can thank all the movie directors and hollywood for giving our beloved pets a bad rep.

so what i have so far is this:

this is only in vancouver... and vancouver is only one city which makes up "the lower mainland". the lower mainland is the name of all the cities combines, as there is no space between them anymore. new westminster, burnaby, north vancouver, richmond, surrey etc are not implementing this bylaw (at this time).

surrey tried to 4 years ago and it was voted down.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

What if there was nowhere to move? What if boas were banned all across North America? Would you move to Central America?

Thats why these bans fire me up so much.. None of these bans mentioned apply to me in any way, but they are still of great concern to me because it's only a matter of time before they try to do the same thing where I live! And I do not want that!!

So I feel a responsibility to try and nip these things in the bud BEFORE they apply to me ;)

"Oh well, doesnt apply to me" doesnt cut it in my books, because one day it could very well apply to you ;) (this is not directed at anyone in particular, just wanted to provoke some thought in those who might be sitting there thinking " I dont live there, who cares? doesnt affect me")

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http://www.reptileinsider.com/upload...ead.php?t=4529
I'm already down as a donator for this, I hope there are more of these out there aswell.

As for whoever gave me the negative rep points for my last comment above, why would you give me the negative rep and not put your name if you really feel so strong about it?

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Originally Posted by djets1989

this type of things comes up cause of peoples misconsception that all snakes are cold blooded killers... and they think this cause of any movie theyve seen with snakes in them, and any movie you see like anaconda or snakes on a plane anrt even real life situations....so basicaly we can thank all the movie directors and hollywood for giving our beloved pets a bad rep.

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We can blame the irrisponsible(sp?) pet owners and stores as well. Just as much of this stereotyping of snakes comes from them as movie directors. When a person is killed by their giant snake, who is to blame? The Snake, not the keeper who stupidly handled a giant snake alone, Not the petstore that sold a giant snake to an unexperienced keeper who in turn provides less than satisfactory care or dumps it. Its not the snakes fault and sadly enough, the whole reptile community suffers evertime one of these dumpings or deaths occur.
Its like the pitbull saying
"Punish the deed, not the breed"

Support PIJAC. They are always fighting against these insane laws. Adding to PIJAC'S membership gives pet owners and sellers a strong voice. :taz:

These articles are starting to scare me. (I live in utah)
People are so dang ignorant about snakes! I have been bitten many a time by snakes and it does hardly any damage. Now get bit by a cat or dog and you are in for a trip to the hospital. Why is it that snakes are so dang scary?


Hey Evan, I didnt know there was some one else from Utah here. Very cool! I live in Woods Cross.

i've heard from many of the people i contacted and all of them are pretty laid back by the bylaw in vancouver.

i'm going to write a letter and try to keep my ears a little more open about this and see where it goes... thanks again for the heads up chris.

if they did ban breeding, would you still be able to with a permit? if anything they should just stop importing and let people go on owning snakes that are getting distributed around now.