Opinions- Should I have a snake?

OK lately I have been feeling bad. I've always wanted a snake but never new much about them. The reason I never got one was because of the whole feeding issue. I thought about it for a long time and decided to look into getting a snake regardless and would make myself feed live if I had to. I read some info ( apparently not the right info until I came here) Perhaps I chose the wrong snake to begin with. Now I understand that BP's are picky eaters and fussy and maybe not the snake a newbie should start wth. I havent been handling him much because I didn't want to stress him out, but it seems everything stresses this poor guy out. I didn't do the correct set up which I am now learning about and I am sure this plays into why he has not eaten for me since I have gotten him. I have been seriously considering giving him up to someone more educated and who knows how to properly care for him as much as I love him and don't want to. Infact I really don't want to but I feel as though I am not doing a good enough job. I do small exotic rescue but not reptile exotics, and I would be the first person to tell someone to give up the pet to someone more knowledgeable so it can recieve proper care and environment. I never thought I would be saying it to myself though. I'd still really like a snake and hopefully I will still be able to purchase the baby I am interested when/if it comes along.(The luecy rat snake) I was told they are much easier to handle, feed and I will get to know it better from a baby.
I'd really appreciate some opinions and advice here. I don't want to be greedy and keep him but I do love him and don't exactly want to let him go. If its whats best to do though I will. :confused:

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Originally Posted by SeraphimScum

OK lately I have been feeling bad. I've always wanted a snake but never new much about them. The reason I never got one was because of the whole feeding issue. I thought about it for a long time and decided to look into getting a snake regardless and would make myself feed live if I had to. I read some info ( apparently not the right info until I came here) Perhaps I chose the wrong snake to begin with. Now I understand that BP's are picky eaters and fussy and maybe not the snake a newbie should start wth. I havent been handling him much because I didn't want to stress him out, but it seems everything stresses this poor guy out. I didn't do the correct set up which I am now learning about and I am sure this plays into why he has not eaten for me since I have gotten him. I have been seriously considering giving him up to someone more educated and who knows how to properly care for him as much as I love him and don't want to. Infact I really don't want to but I feel as though I am not doing a good enough job. I do small exotic rescue but not reptile exotics, and I would be the first person to tell someone to give up the pet to someone more knowledgeable so it can recieve proper care and environment. I never thought I would be saying it to myself though. I'd still really like a snake and hopefully I will still be able to purchase the baby I am interested when/if it comes along.(The luecy rat snake) I was told they are much easier to handle, feed and I will get to know it better from a baby.
I'd really appreciate some opinions and advice here. I don't want to be greedy and keep him but I do love him and don't exactly want to let him go. If its whats best to do though I will. :confused:

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Well first off, i want to say that i totally understand what you are saying.

I was at a petstore, and have been looking into getting a reptile of some sort. I was browsing and came across the Ball Python, I immediatley fell in love with it, and purchased it that day. It was very much of an impulsive buy, and not knowing anything about them, i knew i had of research to do to make sure it was healthy, and had a happy, comfortable habitat. Mine was only a couple to few months old when i got it, and i did not know about the whole " don't handle it the first couple of weeks because of the stress " So almost every day, i handled it every day, couple times, for about 5 mins, 10 mins, etc. He was very curious, and very relaxed.

I had gotten somewhat of an idea from the petstore guy on what to do as far as habitat wise. However for the first 4 or 5 months, i was just terrible at keeping the right temps, the right humidity, etc.

It took him about 2 weeks for him to finally snatch his first mouse, and has been a great eater since.

It wasn't until about a month or two ago that i FINALLY got my temps right, the humidity stable. He's always seemed relaxed, despite my lack of knowledge and doing the right things for him.

His first shed was terrible, it took him 3 weeks, and it came off in pieces, it was a hard shed.

Now he just had his first shed in a couple of months and it was wonderful, and i finally have things down.

Yeah it's true, they get stressed very easily, but if you are truely passionate about keeping the snake, all i can say is stick with it, do as much research as you can on them. It'll take time for you to get the hang of it. I've had alot of experiance with reptiles, but never snakes, so it was a new project for me.

I'll tell you what though, once you get everything right, it feels great, and there are alot of smart people on this site that can help you out with everything.

If you're really not up for the challenge, and have your eyes set on something else, i guess it'd be better for the snake to go to a different home.

I just want to say that it took me a long time to get everything straighten out, and i struggle with these type of things. Give it time and it'll come along great, and you'll feel wonderful, not only about yourself for not giving up, but also for your snake and knowing that he has a wonderful habitat.

Also, you don't always need to feed them live mice. Alot of people recommend frozen/thawed mice. I however feed them live, and i won't lie, the first time i saw it, it was very shocking, and kind of....creepy? But you get use to it, it's just nature.

Keep at it, they may be stressed easily, and you will worry and be paranoid about alot of things when it comes to it, but in my opinion, with the little bit of experiance i've had, they really are a tough snake.

As far as a first snake, i think they're great. sure you can go for a smaller one, but the BP isn't aggresive, fun, curious, and i hate to say it, just damn adorable!

That's just my little bit of experiance, 4 or 5 months to get everything right, just took it to the vet, he's healthy as can be, everything is good now and i'm just having a blast with it!

Good luck on your decision, and just really do what your heart, and what you think is best for not only the snake, but you.

:rockon:

Personally I think the thing to do is see that the refusal to eat isn't a problem, it's a symptom of problems. Identify the issues for this snake and it will be much more likely to eat.

First, husbandry....do you have your temps and humidity stable and how long have they been stable? What sort of enclosure is this snake in and where is it located in your home? What sorts of hides have you provided? What are you attempting to feed (mice or rats) and using what feeding method (live, frozen/thawed, pre-killed)? Where did you purchase this snake and did they provide information on what it was used to eating and what method was used to present the food? How long have you had this snake/how long has it been refusing?

Second, health....sometimes refusals are a symptom of an underlying health issue like internal parasites. Only an experienced herp vet can determine this so an appointment with one might be considered a good idea at this point. If you can get a fecal sample that's great, if not the vet can do a cloacial wash to determine if your snake has an internal parasitic load. We have members from your area so they can likely recommend a herp vet local to you if you don't know of one already.

How long have you had him? Don't you think you should really give it a full try before you give up?

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Originally Posted by darkangel

How long have you had him? Don't you think you should really give it a full try before you give up?

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I agree, perhaps he doesn't really want him, because my first was a impulse buy and i was so determined to reserch, study and learn what i needed to know. After two weeks of having him and basically becoming an expert(yeah right!!) he was so relaxed that he never refused to eat and he doesn't even ball up any more when i go to handle him. If you really want him give it a good try, after you have exhausted all options maybe consider giving him up

We all started somewhere, and made some mistakes at one time, now if having a BP is truly what you want, this forum will be a great source of information and if you are willing to learn, get on the right track, and you will be the proud owner of a thriving BP.

Now if you think Ball Python is not the right choice for you, then yes you should consider what is best for him, and no one would judge you for that.

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Originally Posted by catalystsupreme

I agree, perhaps he doesn't really want him, because my first was a impulse buy and i was so determined to reserch, study and learn what i needed to know. After two weeks of having him and basically becoming an expert(yeah right!!) he was so relaxed that he never refused to eat and he doesn't even ball up any more when i go to handle him. If you really want him give it a good try, after you have exhausted all options maybe consider giving him up

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First... I'm a she. I don't know where or how you came to the conclusion I didn't want him. I am trying to be realistic and do whats best for him, if thats something you aren't familiar with or used to, then thats on you. Don't assume about me though ok?
I brought home Severance about a week before I joined here I believe, so about 2/10. So I have had him for about 2 months. I got him from a guy in NJ who needed to get rid of him because he had a small apartment and was having another baby and no longer had room for the tank and set up. He needed to make room for the new baby I suppose, I didn't question all to much about it. He had him for about 2 years I believe and said he was around 4-5 years. He told me that the last time he gave it a small rat he wasn't interested and should be ready to eat again because it had been a few weeks. At this time I had no clue that moving him would stress him out enough to not eat. I offered 3 different thawed/warmed frozen rats,once a week, and then one thawed/warm frozen mouse. I dangled it in front of him using tongs each time and also left it there for an hour afterwards each time. I then moved to live mice. This is /was my third attempt at a live mouse.
The set up I had was everything that the guy kept him in for 2 years. I just recently found out about Temp gradient and that he needed 2 hides etc. I just recently found out they are very picky/fussy eaters. I have posted about my set up and also took pics to it can be judged and asked for any advice. I stated I was willing to take all opinions and advice and change what was needed. I still am.
The stuff that the guy gave me barely kept the snake at 80 degrees. I went out and bought everything to keep him at about 92 during the day and 84 @ night and a digital temp and humidity thing to keep tabs on it. His first shed took almost 3 weeks and was in flakes. It was horrible. Luckily a nice person on here talked to me through pms and suggested what I do which helped bigtime.
I am trying to get this tempature thing down and now the gradient thing down. I didn't exactly have enough room in the other cage to do so, or atleast that I could think of.
I recently switched his tank to something larger but was suggested there was too much room so I will be adding more things to make it more closed in for him. Such has plants and drift wood.
As I mentioned I have always wanted a snake, but didn't think it was this much work. It's ok that it is but I also do exotic rescue ( non reptile) and thought maybe I just wasnt a good snake parent or doing the right thing by keeping him just cause I wanted him. I will keep trying and try to figure everything out with the help and advise of the kind people on here. I just wasn't sure if anyone would consider me a good enough parent to keep doing so and was second guessing myself. I just want whats best for him because I do care and fell in love with him.
He doesn't ball up when I pick him up but he does hiss. He has never attempted to strike at me but I do often get weary and sometimes afraid to pick him up because he does the s thing with his neck and I was told thats a striking position. I have no problems goin in the cage to clean, water etc and so far have been good with picking him up to transport him to a soak etc.

sounds to me like you are trying, now just be a bit patient and it will all work itself out.
i might have missed it before (i read it over kind of quickly) but what was the previous owner feeding? were they live or frozen/thawed? any certain color? any certain time of the day? all of these small things can play into whether or not you get any response. and if it only ate once a month or so for the previous owner, you might have to try a few different things to get a bit more response than the last owner. but a rule of thumb with picky eaters is "if it ate that way before, then it will again". hope my rambling helps.
also, it might not be a stress induced fast, could be seasonal i think, given the age of the animal. some of the more expericienced posters would know better than me.
and sometimes snakes like to keep us on our toes. i had a green tree that didnt eat for two months, too young for a male seasonal fast (or barely old enough anyhow) always ate frozen or fresh killed mice. after two months of shyness and food avoidance, a live rat pup drove this thing nuts! it ate in seconds. go figure.
good luck, be patient, and have fun!

Hi. Thanks for your response. As far as I know he fed live small rats (pink eyed white) and said he has fed 1-2 male mice at a time before and he took frozen once but never again. I believe the last time he ate was 3 months ago.
I have no clue what time of day or night he fed him. I have tried both night and day but usually at night when he seems more active is when I try. I no longer have this guys email address to ask him anything further. I just looked to see if I can grab an exact date when I got him but aol (stupid aol!) has erased anything from over 2 weeks ago even in sent mail.

well, it sounds like you are on your way to things being perfect. keep on with the tweaking of temps, but given the fact that you are doing a way better husbandry job than the last guy (temps in the low 80s... wow) things will steadily improve for you.
picky eating can be frustrating, especially when a good feeding response would reassure you as to your overall husbandry. just be patient, it will come. prescent the room for an afternoon with a mouse, then shortly after nightfall, try to feed, if it was me i would have both a live mouse and a live rat on hand, just to give it my best shot. also if it doesnt eat, give it a week and try again, dont want to reinforce a non eating pattern.
hope some of this helps. i am sure there are far more experienced keepers who will chime in, so good luck. and remember, you already have a snake, too late to second guess now whether you should have one. keep on trying as hard as you are now and you will do fine.

I think all of us newbs get frustrated from time to time. The temperatures don't do right, they of course don't want to eat, the humidity could be better, etc... I think if you just be persistent and make the necessary changes things will turn around.

If you are willing to put the time into it and see things through, then yes. If you are going to give up, then no. Just give it some time and things will get better. :rockon:

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Originally Posted by SeraphimScum

First... I'm a she. I don't know where or how you came to the conclusion I didn't want him. I am trying to be realistic and do whats best for him, if thats something you aren't familiar with or used to, then thats on you. Don't assume about me though ok?
I brought home Severance about a week before I joined here I believe, so about 2/10. So I have had him for about 2 months. I got him from a guy in NJ who needed to get rid of him because he had a small apartment and was having another baby and no longer had room for the tank and set up. He needed to make room for the new baby I suppose, I didn't question all to much about it. He had him for about 2 years I believe and said he was around 4-5 years. He told me that the last time he gave it a small rat he wasn't interested and should be ready to eat again because it had been a few weeks. At this time I had no clue that moving him would stress him out enough to not eat. I offered 3 different thawed/warmed frozen rats,once a week, and then one thawed/warm frozen mouse. I dangled it in front of him using tongs each time and also left it there for an hour afterwards each time. I then moved to live mice. This is /was my third attempt at a live mouse.
The set up I had was everything that the guy kept him in for 2 years. I just recently found out about Temp gradient and that he needed 2 hides etc. I just recently found out they are very picky/fussy eaters. I have posted about my set up and also took pics to it can be judged and asked for any advice. I stated I was willing to take all opinions and advice and change what was needed. I still am.
The stuff that the guy gave me barely kept the snake at 80 degrees. I went out and bought everything to keep him at about 92 during the day and 84 @ night and a digital temp and humidity thing to keep tabs on it. His first shed took almost 3 weeks and was in flakes. It was horrible. Luckily a nice person on here talked to me through pms and suggested what I do which helped bigtime.
I am trying to get this tempature thing down and now the gradient thing down. I didn't exactly have enough room in the other cage to do so, or atleast that I could think of.
I recently switched his tank to something larger but was suggested there was too much room so I will be adding more things to make it more closed in for him. Such has plants and drift wood.
As I mentioned I have always wanted a snake, but didn't think it was this much work. It's ok that it is but I also do exotic rescue ( non reptile) and thought maybe I just wasnt a good snake parent or doing the right thing by keeping him just cause I wanted him. I will keep trying and try to figure everything out with the help and advise of the kind people on here. I just wasn't sure if anyone would consider me a good enough parent to keep doing so and was second guessing myself. I just want whats best for him because I do care and fell in love with him.
He doesn't ball up when I pick him up but he does hiss. He has never attempted to strike at me but I do often get weary and sometimes afraid to pick him up because he does the s thing with his neck and I was told thats a striking position. I have no problems goin in the cage to clean, water etc and so far have been good with picking him up to transport him to a soak etc.

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Frist of all i didn't assume nothing about you, i said PERHAPS A.K.A. MAYBE he doesn't want him. It wasn't a fact. OK!! so you can calm on down, breathe, breathe there you go!! Yes I referred to you as he. Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my bad, honest mistake. Jesus F-ing Christ you dont have to attack someone over a mistake.

Hm.. it you are willing and financially able to fix the setup to beyond standard, and it's just an issue of you not being able to handle the snake much, that is fine. These snakes neither need nor usually enjoy handling.. I would even venture to say that, being an owner who does not often handle her snake, you;d be better serving the snake than someone who likes to wear him as a necklace out to clubs, etc. :)
I think that as long as you provide basic attention to the animal (cage cleaning, etc) then handling is unimportant.

It sounds to me that you really care for the snake and you are willing to do what is right for the snake. There's not much I can add to what everyone else has said. Once you get the temps and humdity correct, and adding some additional cover for it feel more secure I'm sure that it will start feeding more consistantly. Good Luck.

Thanks all for the advice. I am still going to try here. I just sometimes feel like I am not doing it right and making him suffer because of my lack of education.
Cat... I wasn't aware that I attacked you.. I'm sorry if you feel I did.
I have someone in PMs willing to help me so I am going to be taking up his offer and hopefully I can get the ball rolling for this guy and get him eating soon. I know snakes can go months without eating but I am not used to animals like this and it makes me feeel soo bad. :(
I will update you all how he is doing and take new pics once I get the tnak set up properly.
Thanks again
Skyn

The thing with bps is everything takes time. Seems like you are now starting to get things where they need to be. Your bp might need a few weeks of correct husbandry before it feels comfortable enough to resume eating. If it is retaining its weight and is not exhibiting odd behaviors I think you are still okay.

I know it is hard, everyone makes mistakes with their first. Do not be too hard on yourself. Think of this as an opportunity to grow as a snake keeper.

The thing to remember going forward, and this goes to anyone thinking about getting a snake, is to research research research ahead of time and get its enclosure up and running long before purchasing a snake. That way you know you have it right and won't end up practicing with a live animal.

Good luck and don’t give up. It sounds like you really care and are trying, you will get it before too long. :sunny:

Personally I think you're turning into a great snake parent. You are obviously concerned enough that if you feel you aren't the right home for this snake you are willing to see it go to a more experienced person and that's a loving and smart thing to do if the situation warrants it at some point.

It may be a seasonal issue as this is a mature male snake and he may have breeding on his mind and not be terribly interested in eating. Our mature male has been steadily refusing ever since the breeding season started and hasn't lost any real significant amount of weight.

How long is this snake and do you have a current weight on him? Does he have a triangular sort of look to his body or is he fairly girthy?

I would focus on getting the husbandry settled properly and any changes to the enclosure done. Then wait solid week or even two with no handling and nothing other than water changes and cage maintenance before attempting to feed. Even good changes tend to stress out these shy snakes so you need to let it settle in a bit and adjust to the changes you are making.

If you can call around to some pet stores and find one that actually breeds rodents in the back try to get a rat fuzzy/crawler...a nice chunky one. You want a rat about 10 days old, one that still has it eyes closed but has developed a satin sort of coat (not still a pinky and not yet a pup). These tend to be very attractive to snakes as they move about and trigger a strike response but can't scurry around wildly. The only unfortunate thing is should he refuse the fuzzy rat, it cannot survive without it's mother and would be wasted.

You can pre-scent the room by putting the fuzzy rat into a container with a lot of ventilation. Put the container directly on the lid of the enclosure over where the snake is resting and leave them be for a good hour or so. Pick a quiet evening and wait till after dark. After an hour or so introduce the rat fuzzy into the enclosure close but not in the snake's face and try to make little to no noise or intrusion into the snake's space. You can safely leave a fuzzy/crawler rat alone with your snake overnight as this age of rat cannot possibly injure your snake.

It might not work but sometimes it does get a snake interested in eating again. Then you can slowly work up week by week to a more appropriate sized rat though I'd never offer more than a small rat/large weanling to a male ball python.

I am glad that you have a better feeling about things now. I can definately relate to the discouragement that comes from having a nonfeeding snake, while being a new keeper at the same time; I went through the same thing with my first BP. Now, years later, if one of them does go on a hunger strike, it is not any huge thing, but in the beginning it can be enough to make you wanna pull your hair out!
I agree with Jo's suggestion of getting a fuzzy; they are pretty harmless and will probably not be as frightening and less stressful.

He is about 4 feet long and I am going to try and get a weight in grams tomorrow on the kitchen scale. Its funny you say that the fuzzy is less frightening because he did almost seem scared of the mouse at first. He would look like he was going to strike then dark back away from him. For a while was out and about climbing the drift wood watching the mouse run around above him. The widest part of his girth is about a little smaller then a soda can. He looks ok and still not skinny but I can feel a difference when picking him up. Like i can feel something different on his back almost unless I am just being paranoid.

Get a weight dear so you really know that vital information and can go from there. I still think a vet appointment to check for internal parasites would be a very good thing as well as confirming the snake's gender. Once you've got husbandry sorted out and the snake's been confirmed as healthy, at least then you have a good base of information to work off of.

Don't worry about being worried or paranoid. We all go through it with new snakes. I swear ball pythons come with a free case of OCD. lol