I might get in trouble

for posting about this, but I find it an interesting topic. I was just reading some stuff about the easter bunny ban and other holiday stuff. Then I remembered that back at Christmas time, my friend and I had a discussion (or rather she just flat out refused to hear my side of the issue) about what to say to customers when it was time for the holidays. The question was, "Do you say Merry Christmas, or Happy Holidays." My friend flat out refuses to say Happy Holidays since she is a christian (and I am in no way bashing christians, I assure you. Many of my good friends are christian.).

For me, I don't really celebrate Christmas. My family does and I get into the spirit only as far as dinner and presents. At work I don't even think twice about saying "Happy Holidays". It just comes naturally to me since I realize that there are people out there that don't celebrate Christmas. There are people that celebrate holidays that belong to other religions and cultural backgrounds. And so that I cover all the bases, I naturally just say Happy Holidays.

I actually had one woman who was so bitter about the whole thing that when I told her "Have a happy Holiday." she gave me the most disgusted look and spat "Merry Christmas!" back at me with the most hateful tone. At another point in time, a co-worker and myself were discussing how another worker in the store had been playing only Christian music during the holiday season and how we would have liked to hear a wider variety of holiday music so that everyone can enjoy the music at the store. A woman who overheard us actually told us that society was going downhill when we want to play non-christian music in our store during the holidays. And she said "Who care's about that? This is Christmas, and nothing else." I told her I was not Christian and that I did not celebrate Christmas and I was dissappointed when there was no other music played. She went into a rant about how people are taking Christ out of Christmas. She went on and on. And now so am I. lol

I just felt it was an interesting topic. If an admin or moderator finds this offensive, then please feel free to take it down. I just thought it would spark interesting conversation. And I want to state that I am in no way against Christians in any way. I just feel that all peoples should be recognized.

If it becomes a very heated discussion, we can move it to Quarantine, where the discussion can continue.


I prefer Merry Christmas myself, and feel I shouldn't have to apologize for saying it. If someone wants to tell me Happy Hanakuh, Feliz Navidad, Happy Kwanza - I'm not going to be offended by it. I celebrate Christmas, so I'd like to feel free to say Merry Christmas. Sometimes political correctness seems to go a bit far, IMHO and people seem to get offended just on the principle of being politically correct, and less than on religious offense.

My point is, why should people be offended by the individuality of all of us? If I celebrate Christmas, why should someone be offended by that? Just as I'm not offended by others celebrating their religion and freedom to express the holiday greetings of their religion.

First let me start out by saying that I am a practicing catholic. I also have no problem with people who use Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. I think that as the world has grown more interconnected, language should adapt to become more accepting of different cultures/lifestyles/etc. To me, Happy Holidays can still mean Merry Christmas (if I want it to), but it also means Happy Kwanza and a host of other things (even happy new years). The opposite is not true, saying Merry Christmas not only broadcasts your own personal faith, it also makes the assumption that the person your are talking to believes in Christmas. In my experience, the people who have the most trouble with the switch to Happy Holidays are people who are devout enough in their beliefs to the point of being self-centered. I guess if you believe so strongly in your own religion that you are blind to the faith of others, then it makes sense that Merry Christmas is the only suitable phrase. Then again, in many cases it is these same people who are afraid of a whole set of other societal issues like homosexuality. I dont think these people will ever change, my saying Happy Holidays you can only hope to change their children and their children's children. Just my two cents.

I wouldn't get offended if someone told me Merry Christmas, because if someone does, I recognize that it is thier holiday and they are just used to saying it to fellow celebrators. For me, because I have no official holiday (other than Halloween) that I truely celebrate, I feel more comfortable saying Happy Holiday. What offends me is when other people get offended when I say Happy Holiday. Its like they think I did something wrong when in fact I'm just trying to be polite.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Its like they think I did something wrong when in fact I'm just trying to be polite.

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I see your point, I am not offended if someone says Happy Holidays to me. My point is, I think people get TOO sensitive and insist that people say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. I shouldn't be made to feel I might - *gasp* offend someone if I utter the words Merry Christmas.

Yeah, I'm kind of tired about hearing about this stuff in the news.

What bugs me is how everyone has to walk on eggshells in the effort to be politically correct. I mean, December 25th is Christmas. Why not say "Merry Christmas?" Then when Hanaukka starts, why don't we just say "Happy Hanaukka?" But if "Happy Holidays" is said to you, big deal. Just aknowledge the fact that the person even opened their mouth and said something to you. America was founded by Christians, so those who are of other religious upbringing should remember that and tolerate it. And sort of vice versa: no matter how dovout and bible-thumping you are, there's no reason to be rude.

Moral of the story, people just need to lighten up. Its not the end of the world if someone uses Happy Holidays and someone else says Merry Christmas.

And like I said, I don't think saying Merry Christmas is wrong. And I also don't think that we should all walk on eggshells in order to be polite. I have no official religion as of yet and more than likey, its going to stay that way. I do think, however, that people should tolerate all religions, no matter who was here first. Technically there were already people here in America with thier own religion, and then the Christians arrived. I don't think America is a Christian nation. It is a nation of all people, most of which happen to be Christian.

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I don't think America is a Christian nation. It is a nation of all people, most of which happen to be Christian.

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Imagine what would happen if we didnt have a separation of church and state!

i always say happy christmas,im not into it myself,just more for my neices and nephews.but some people just dont appreciate somebody trying to be nice to them.

Haha, no chance of that. It would be nice, but I doubt it will happen. Everyone makes decisions based on thier own religions or spiritual beliefs. Well most of them anyway. It would be hard to find people to work for the government that had absolutely no religious background.

I think what it basically comes down to is why are people so offended whether you say one of the other. Like that lady with the music in the store. She was so offended that I wanted to listen to Jingle Bells.

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Originally Posted by Sausage

America was founded by Christians, so those who are of other religious upbringing should remember that and tolerate it.

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First, let me make it perfectly clear...I am not trying to heat things up, merely to provide a different viewpoint, and maybe even some food for thought.

America was not founded by Christians alone. Many of the founders were actually deists, this is a historical fact. I honestly do get tired of this fallacy being perpetrated.
Another point: America was founded by several slave owners. This fact alone does not support slavery, so why should the founders religions support any one of those?

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

. She was so offended that I wanted to listen to Jingle Bells.

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Jeez, some people just need to choose their battles. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

I do think, however, that people should tolerate all religions, no matter who was here first.

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Why? Should religions that have a history of bloody intolerance be tolerated?

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

America was not founded by Christians alone. Many of the founders were actually deists, this is a historical fact. I honestly do get tired of this fallacy being perpetrated.

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True, true. My above statement was mainly aimed at the "We should remove 'Under God' from the Pledge Of Allegience," types. Sorry that I didn't clarify. ;)

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Originally Posted by Sausage

True, true. My above statement was mainly aimed at the "We should remove 'Under God' from the Pledge Of Allegience," types. Sorry that I didn't clarify. ;)

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I am, most emphatically, one of "those types". :D

Hehe, well I'm not gonna post anything else. Odds are I'll wind up saying something offensive. :D

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Why? Should religions that have a history of bloody intolerance be tolerated?

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I dont think its religions that have a history of bloody intolerance. Religions are composed primarily of large masses of unthinking drones who follow orders. If you consider the religion to be intolerant, 99% of the time it can be traced back to the leader of the religion at that time. The spanish inquisition for example, do you think the people doing the torture are actually intolerant, or was it the overseer projecting his personal opinion onto the drones?

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Originally Posted by minotaur

I dont think its religions that have a history of bloody intolerance. Religions are composed primarily of large masses of unthinking drones who follow orders. If you consider the religion to be intolerant, 99% of the time it can be traced back to the leader of the religion at that time. The spanish inquisition for example, do you think the people doing the torture are actually intolerant, or was it the overseer projecting his personal opinion onto the drones?

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If the religious leaders base their intolerance on the teachings of the religion, how can there be a distinction?

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If the religious leaders base their intolerance on the teachings of the religion, how can there be a distinction?

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In the cases I am thinking of the religious leaders used their own personal biases under the guise of religion to get thousands of people to do their bidding. The crusades werent about conversion, they were about power, land and wealth. Can you come up with an example where a religion actually teaches intolerance? Most of them make it a specific point to accept others.

I was brought up catholic but lean more towards the "there is a god, but he just sits there and watches, knows nothing...etc" view. I forgot what that is called so forgive me. I do not care if someone tells me merry christmas or happy holidays. It is a season for various religions to practice what they believe. Now I am no expert on religion, but isn't it pretty much common practice to be tolerant of other religions? As in, not doing anything about it but respecting the views of others? If we criticize someone for not saying merry christmas or because someone does say it, then what is that saying about us?

In general I am inclined to think that people of all religions are afraid of secularization. The phrase Happy Holidays is undeniably secular. I would be interested to see if the same people who are offended by Happy Holidays are as offended by Happy Hanukkah (if they are Christian). At least they know that the people saying Happy Hanukkah are religious, even if its not their religion.

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Originally Posted by minotaur

In the cases I am thinking of the religious leaders used their own personal biases under the guise of religion to get thousands of people to do their bidding. The crusades werent about conversion, they were about power, land and wealth.

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I would argue that all religions are about those same exact things.

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Originally Posted by minotaur

Can you come up with an example where a religion actually teaches intolerance? Most of them make it a specific point to accept others.

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Have you actually read the major religious materials? IE, the Bible or Torah or Koran? I could quote many intolerant scriptures from each, although that might open up an entirely different debate.

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I would argue that all religions are about those same exact things.

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Its an interesting argument but I am inclined to think that religion is more about explaining what we dont understand. Just because generation after generation of power hungry religious leaders have taken advantage of millions of people does not mean that religion itself is about power, wealth and land.

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Have you actually read the major religious materials? IE, the Bible or Torah or Koran? I could quote many intolerant scriptures from each, although that might open up an entirely different debate.

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I have read the bible and torah. Although they show examples of intolerance, I think they use these examples for the overall purpose of teaching that intolerance is wrong. The strongest example that comes to mind is Jesus helping the lepers.

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Originally Posted by minotaur

Its an interesting argument but I am inclined to think that religion is more about explaining what we dont understand. Just because generation after generation of power hungry religious leaders have taken advantage of millions of people does not mean that religion itself is about power, wealth and land.

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From my standpoint, there isn't much difference between a religion and it's founder/leaders. What any given deity considers right or wrong is determined by it's human creators, therefore, serves their interests.

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Originally Posted by minotaur

I have read the bible and torah. Although they show examples of intolerance, I think they use these examples for the overall purpose of teaching that intolerance is wrong. The strongest example that comes to mind is Jesus helping the lepers.

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It's all well and good to take one example of tolerance from an incomplete and heavily edited writing and then discount the many examples of intolerance in the same work by simply failing to mention them. Since I have no preconceived belief to support, I am able to look at the inconsistencies head on and see them for what they are, without excusing them.

SarahMB, its difficult to properly respond to your post because I understand what you are saying and I am certainly not ignorant enough to think I can change your opinion.

As far as what constitutes a religion, I believe the concept of religion was originally created as a moral compass, a set of rules to be followed before the advent of the legal system. Thats why a system like the 10 commandments can be found in almost every religion, even polytheistic religions. Because religion is a moral compass, people need to be judged individually, not based on the interpretation of the new leader on the block. If the founder of the religion preaches intolerance that is a different story. In terms of religious texts, like the bible, my example was poor and I realize that intolerance, even by God, does exist in the Torah. Actually, here is a link to some of the intolerance passages: http://www.religioustolerance.org/intol_bibl.htm

As per my first post in this thread, I tell people I am catholic because it is a good first approximation, my true beliefs are complicated and might surprise you. If I took the time to explain what I believe, you would understand why I say I am catholic. Thanks for your insight SarahMB but your posts seem to assume that all people of the standard religions are intolerant and I think that needs to be judged on an individual basis.

I believe you HAVE to seperate out the religion from the practicers. A lot of religions say to love thy neighbors and such.. the rules as laid out are basically good. But then you have the interpetors of the rules. They are people. Even meaning well, they can twist what the original people wrote, or recieved from god.
I'm pretty much non-religious. I'm not offended when someone tells me "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hannakka(sp)" or "Good Kwanzaa" "Good day." All of them are wishing me a good day, some are stating they think it's a holy time of some sort. Good for them.
When they say *I* have to use their term, that's when it's rude. I should be able to say whatever well-wishes I want without them deciding it's offensive.
For those that say "That's taking the Christ out of Christmas".. well, yeah. That's the point to some. If you aren't christian, then Christ isn't in the rest of the year either. It's a free country, and I have the right to NOT believe in Christ as the son of god.
No matter who founded the country, it's always stated "Freedom of religion" which includes by definition "Freedom from religion" as well. If I'd like to be Buddist and president, then I should be able to. And I might say Happy Holidays.. since I don't believe in Christmas.
Debating the actual religions is really not something I do online usually. Someone always ends up yelling and getting all incensed. But I will say that if you are going to state "Oh you said ONE thing but you ignored all the other things" then you should state YOUR example of one of the 'other things'. Don't attack someone for THEIR beliefs. You are asking that they not attack you for your lack of them. Extend the same courtesy.
No one should ever rip apart another's dreams. Just because you don't share it, don't seek to destroy it.
No matter what ANYONE'S religion(or lack of) I judge on what they do. If they're a good person, then I don't care. You can worship last years squash cassarole for all I care.
Everyone should be subject to the same laws(pretty much true in this country) and no matter what your beliefs, you still should treat others with respect and courtesy.
Wolfy

i always thought happy holidays is just a time of year where there are many holidays that come from different religions, if it's the case, happy holidays implies, "im not sure what you are celebrating but happy ______ to you!"

BUT, if you know someone celebrates the same holiday as you do, then there is no reason not to say "merrry christmas" or "happy hanukkah" or "happy kwanza"

just my 2 cents


whatever you are, :rockon: :rockon:

It shouldnt matter what people say to you or what you say to them. Sometimes I will say Merry Christmas, other times I will say Happy Holidays. Its whatever comes to the tongue first and I have never thought twice about it. It is nit-picking if you are going to be so precise about what you are saying and argumentative because someone says one or the other to you. IMO, you should just get over it, if you dont liek what one person is saying to you deal with it, there isnt a whole lot you can do about it without causing an unnecessary argument.

You know I don't particularily care if someone smiles at me and says "Happy Easter" or "Happy Belly Button Lint Day". For me, and what I'm trying to raise the kids to see, is it's about reaching out to family, to friends, to strangers on the street and just connect and share a bit of happiness in a world that has far, far too little of it. So if Easter means going to church for you and having a lovely meal with your family afterwards...that's wonderful! If it means chocolate bunnies and giggles...that's great! If it means nothing but you spend a great day off with a good book and a loved one nearby....totally awesome!

The fact that we as a society look for reasons to argue, to pick at someone else over a darn holiday is just sad and something I won't involve me or mine in. I'd rather spend this holiday weekend enjoying ourselves and smiling at a few strangers on the bus. That's enough for me really, even if some of the strangers think I'm strange but then hey...my granny said I'd talk to a rock given half a chance so I'll just go on saying hi and happy whatever. :)

I don't care what people say. Just have a problem with being told what to say. To each his own really and I think being forced to accept anything one way or another is BS. You're into what you're into, simple as that. Personally, I think people should be left alone to worship, praise, chant-to or sacrifice gummy bears to whatever creature-figure or god they want. Just do your own thing as long as it isn't at the expense of someone else.

What gets me going are these guys like that schmuck (sure there are a few out there but some lawyer from california was on TV a while back raisin a big hoot so Im naming him) who had such a problem with saying "under god" in the pledge of allegiance. Who really cares? If you don't want to say it, you don't have to. Don't sit there and waste valuable resources and tax dollars on something so small as a two-word selection just because you have the right to. Just cause you can raise a big fuss doesn't mean you have to. You aren't special and the simple fact that you, by-your-little-lonesome, are going out and working for a personal goal just totally defeats everything you are "fighting" for.

Thats my rant I suppose, Im done.

Well I want to wish everyone who celebrates it a happy Easter. And for those that don't, have a good day. For me, I am working today, so I'm missing out on the family dinner today.

And thehoofbite, I won't get too far into this because I don't want to start an arguement, but I do not stand for the pledge of allegiance. Nor do I say it, for the exact reason that they have 'under god' in the pledge. I actually got in trouble because I wouldn't stand during the pledge. I told the teacher that I had my own beliefs and would not stand for the pledge. She said if I didn't stand I would be removed from the classroom. I refused to stand and out into the hall I went every morning, so I wouldn't offend other students by not standing. (By the way, by my not standing, I meant I sit quietly in my seat. I didn't say anything, or do anything else to disturb anyone.) Eventually news spread throughout the school that I was being kicked out of class during the pledge and other people around the school began sitting. My teacher came to me and told me I was starting a rebelion. I told her that I had no control over what others did and still refused to stand. I told her, it is not in the student handbook. There is no school rule that requires me to stand, therefore I should not be getting in trouble for this. She said it wasn't a rule but it was still expected. I then told her, if its not printed in this book, I will not stand. Technically, by law I don't have to stand, so she was denying me my right to sit. I was denied freedom of speech by being made to sit outside.

And we've totally gotten off track. This thread is not here for arguing religion and patriotism. It is simply a discussion on the holidays and what to say. I just wanted to see what other people say during the holidays. I'm sorry if by posting this, I created an arguement. I don't want this getting out of control.

HAPPY FESTIVUS everyone :) thought i'd throw in my 2 cents

also happy easter to all those who celebrate it im working from 12 - 6:30 so no family dinner for me but i do have a lil get together going on later tonite

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Originally Posted by minotaur

As far as what constitutes a religion, I believe the concept of religion was originally created as a moral compass, a set of rules to be followed before the advent of the legal system.

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That's exactly what I think as well, so we must not be too far apart in our beliefs :D

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Originally Posted by minotaur

Thanks for your insight SarahMB but your posts seem to assume that all people of the standard religions are intolerant and I think that needs to be judged on an individual basis.

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I'm not sure where you got that from my posts, as it's not true in the least. I think religions are intolerant, but most followers ignore the teachings that are distasteful to them. I think most humans have good intentions towards other humans, no matter what religion they belong to.
Which is why I always smile and say thank you when someone says 'bless you' when I sneeze. I've also been known to say Merry Christmas in return to the same greeting! I just think that's polite.

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Why? Should religions that have a history of bloody intolerance be tolerated?

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And yet the Catholic is still the largest religious body in the world.

I am in no way religious so I must admit I find the way people take offense to "Happy Holidays" amusing. As well as all the other mini movements that have happened, for instance, turning Halloween into "Fall Festival"... ridiculous...

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Originally Posted by darkangel

I am in no way religious so I must admit I find the way people take offense to "Happy Holidays" amusing. As well as all the other mini movements that have happened, for instance, turning Halloween into "Fall Festival"... ridiculous...

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The funny thing about that is, hallowe'en is actually an old old pagan holiday, it's not christian at all. But it can be argued so are all the other major holidays .

I don't think it should be anybody's business what I choose to tell them at christmas, just like it isn't mine to tell them what to say. I usually say happy holidays because though I celebrate christmas, it's for the family aspect. I don't have a problem with the teachings of christ but I don't follow them. I say happy holidays to just wish whoever a good whatever they celebrate - doesn't matter to me who they pray to when they celebrate!
If someone else is going to get mad at me for saying "happy holidays".... I think they've lost the idea of christmas, and are not thinking in the mindset that a modern church should have. But I'm not one to lead churches :P

I'm an atheist raised by atheists, and I still say "Merry Christmas". *shrug* I think people should just take whatever seasonal greeting is offered in the spirit of goodwill in which it is intended. Insisting that the speaker conform to the receiver's particular religous mindset is just stupid and narrow-minded. There are millions of belief systems in the world; you can't expect that everyone you meet will agree with yours. Live and let live. In my experience, the most zealous believers seem to be the most unhappy...always finding fault with everything and everyone around them. Just be happy and practice tolerance. :-)

Halloween may be an old pagan holiday, but it's hardly that now. Come on, little kids getting dressed up and getting candy? I don't understand. With as many pagan influences as the are around us it seems such a pointless target.

:clap: well said Jo!!! And Happy Belly Button Lint Day to you too! (i didn't know you were a bellybuttonist too! :P) Oh and one more thing....LOVE your avatar....that's my mom..totally. :D

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Originally Posted by darkangel

Halloween may be an old pagan holiday, but it's hardly that now. Come on, little kids getting dressed up and getting candy? I don't understand. With as many pagan influences as the are around us it seems such a pointless target.

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I'm not targeting it, I'm just saying it's not a christian holiday. I'm not about to dis halloween, it's a ton of fun!
You were saying how silly it is that people call it fall festival and I agree, because it doesn't have much religious significance unless you're pagan.

I work at a daycare and we call all the major holidays what they're normally referred to here in Canada. Easter, Christmas, etc. But we also send out a newsletter saying "we are calling the holiday this just so it's easier and because that's what it will be called as these kids grow up in Canada. This doesn't mean we aren't going to talk about the different ways people celebrate!" So the kids know that people celebrate different ways.

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Originally Posted by minotaur

Imagine what would happen if we didnt have a separation of church and state!

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I agree here because lets face it if we aloud a total influx of religion in the schools and government then every religion would have to be recognized from Christian to satanist. I had rather our government not let any religion within the government institutions abound than to let all. You might not be Christian but that doesn't mean you want a satanist reading prayers in your kids schools in the morning.

The original reason for the separation of church and state was not so that religion could be practiced freely but rather so that the government could not force its people to worship in the way that the government saw fit. In a sense making sure that there would not a "State Church". Like was so common in England in the 10 -16 century when the country was run by the Catholic church and protestants were hunted and killed for their beliefs and is still put in to play in communist nations. However our country was founded mainly by Christian men who like all men were not perfect (slave owners) but as Christian didn't claim to be perfect. It is a part of our history when you start removing one nation under God from the pledge and in God we trust from our money. Which on a side note I'd be willing to bet a years paychecks that most people my age and younger and maybe even a generation or two older can't recite the Pledge of Allegiance or sing the National Anthem.

If this is to be the way of it then Christmas becomes just another day. Children stay in school and no one gets off of work for it. You totally do away with Santa Clause a diluted figure derived from the Christian and more to the point Catholic created figure of Saint Nicholas no more decorations at that time of year or Easter any where in public. Thanksgiving is no more because after all a holiday derived from a group of Christian people(Quakers) giving thanks to God for the native Americans and seeing them through another year is totally out. Because after all any holiday ever how diluted base on a certain religion should not be aloud. We will no longer allow the Salvation Army to solicit in public. Telemarketers can now call on Sunday. Churches now have to pay taxes just like every other business, oh wait wouldn't that mean that the government was being (ever how small the amount) funded by a religious establishment.

After all Amendment ZZ to the US constitution states, We the People affirm that the United States of America exists as One Nation Under God."

People don't have to except Christianity on any level but to start removing our history eats away at the very history of our people.

If you want to say Happy Holidays that fine with me I'll say Merry Christmas. But leave our history intact whether you agree with it or not. It is after all history and we work everyday to build a nation that can be a safe haven for all man kind not just a few. Are we there yet??? It has take us 230 years, 9 months, 5 days to get where we are today and we have a long road ahead.

Just because a holiday had to do with a religious celebration originally doesn't mean it still needs to be all about it. After all, Christmas is one of the most secular holidays now.
There's a lot of debate about how many of the 'founding fathers' were christian too. It's been mentioned earlier.
I personally think churchs SHOULD be taxed. Why should they be allowed to take in and use money but contribute nothing to the tax base? To say that it would mean the government would be funded by religions is a bit silly. They get taxes from all of us. That doesn't mean they are funded by satanists.. or by seculists. It means everyone contributes. Churches shouldn't be exempt.
You cannot change history. No one proposes changing history(perhaps changing the texts to reflect the reality of it sometimes) .
Halloween is usually changed to "Fall Festival" terms BY Christian groups because it's NOT a christian holiday. Check out how many churchs have Fall Festival parties for the kids, instead of Halloween parties. So that's the backwards sign of Happy Holidays. The church fights AGAINST changing Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays, because they say it demeans the original purpose of the holiday. Yet THEY change Happy Halloween to Happy Fall Festivus, which demeans the original purpose of THAT holiday. But that's okay.. it's not THEIR religion.
Intolerance of others right to celebrate their own beliefs is what is wrong around here. People are VERY quick to yell about their rights being trampled, but have no issue with stepping on others rights. Taking the words "Under God" off a piece of money doesn't change history. It doesn't mean you have to stop being christian. It does however mean that non-God-worshippers don't have to use money with a religious tract printed on it. "In God We Trust" is okay on your coins.. but would you accept it if the Mint decided to put "Budda Loves you" on the quarter instead? How about "Satan Believes In You"? No? Why not? It's a religious statement.. just not the Christian one.
And Christianity is currantly the top numbers wise in the world, but Islam is catching up at a fast rate. If Islam is #1 will we change messages since they are #1? I prefer to stay non-religious myself.
I never object to what people say. I don't object to christian displays outside someone's home, or church, or business. I don't find it offensive that crosses adorn people's throat, nor do I object if a pagan symbol is hung up on my neighbor's window. I feel it's their house/car/building etc. I just don't like it when state run facilities start hosting the religious symbols too. The quiet five minutes in the morning at a public school is wonderful. That way if you wish to pray, you can. If you want to meditate, you do that. It's non-religious, but allows for any religion to be practiced quietly.
Wolfy

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Originally Posted by darkangel

Halloween may be an old pagan holiday, but it's hardly that now. Come on, little kids getting dressed up and getting candy? I don't understand. With as many pagan influences as the are around us it seems such a pointless target.

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Well, I don't think kids getting dressed up is TOO far off from the original holiday.

All Hallows Eve was (at least in Ireland, as we talked about it in a "Modern Ireland" course) a holiday where spirits of the dead were said to rome around. So, to confuse the spirits and make sure they didn't attempt to haunt/possess anyone, people carved out vegetables with faces and put candles in them and people wore masks... At least, that's what I remember to the best of my ability :) I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering it right.

Anyway, I'd consider myself a non-denominational Christian... I'm really okay with whatever anyone says to me. Happy Christmahaunikwanzika, right? (Wasn't that in an Adam Sandler song?). I don't think it matters one way or the other...and it's silly that people get SO worked up over it.

Scholars are fairly sure that Christ was born in Springtime, anyway, and not at Christmas. But, in an attempt to convert pagans, the Catholic church decided to take a pagan holiday and turn it into a holiday celebrating their diety (Christ). The Christmas tree is also a pagan symbol. *shrugs*

And my parents are now here to take me out to an Easter Lunch...so I gotta go :) I was just really rambling, anyway. So--for everyone who celebrates today, for whatever reasons: Happy April the 8th ;)

I think everyone needs to just lighten up in this country or world for that matter.
They take away the Easter bunny, they take away Christmas holidays in schools, work etc as to not offend people. Well it offends me, am I not people?
We are teaching our kids to grow up and be little middle of the road milk toast not willing to stand up and do or say what they feel or believe for fear of offending someone. Heck most days I find tons of people who offend me in just the way they dress and come out in public, but I am not trying to change the laws reguarding dress. I just get over it.

As for our founding fathers I do think the ones who wrote the pledge and the rest of the mumbo jumbo where in fact christians reguadless of what other religions may or may not have been in this country. The word God has been in it and on our money for a few hundred years and hasn't been an issue. If you feel uncomfortable w/ saying one nation under God then don't say the darn thing, I am ok with that as you have the right not to stand and pledge.
But don't tell me I can't or that I have to remove the word.

I guess I am saying that whole " oh that offends me " coin has two sides. Who are you or I to decide which is right or which is wrong?

As I always say " can't we all just get along "

My thought was Happy Holidays included New Years Too! I don't know why people get so upset. I find many people give more energy to what is against their religion then what is similar, in other words the prefer to add to the negative differences(in their opinion) and not the positve similarities. Just as there are many rivers leading to the ocean, There are many paths to God. Unfortunately religion leads to self rightiuosness. I'm right and your wrong(or going to hell). Or I'm better than you. I enjoy studiing all religions. They are all amazing and they all have the same message when you open your mind and stop being self rightious. :)

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Originally Posted by jotay

I
As for our founding fathers I do think the ones who wrote the pledge and the rest of the mumbo jumbo where in fact christians reguadless of what other religions may or may not have been in this country. The word God has been in it and on our money for a few hundred years and hasn't been an issue. If you feel uncomfortable w/ saying one nation under God then don't say the darn thing, I am ok with that as you have the right not to stand and pledge.
But don't tell me I can't or that I have to remove the word.

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Actually, the founders had nothing to do with writing the pledge. Francis Bellamy wrote it in 1892, and "under God" was not even part of it. That wasn't added until 1954, by Congress. And it was added as a way to impart hatred and intolerance of Communists and atheists due to the Red Scare.
Furthermore, "In God We Trust" wasn't added to coins until 1864.

No one is telling you that you can't say "under God", just know the actual history behind what you are saying.

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

My thought was Happy Holidays included New Years Too!

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Agreed to that point. Add in Thanksgiving too!

I am a baptist christain.

I respect other religions, and the people who practice them! I have friends who arn't christians, and I love them the same as I do my christian friends. Some people blow this out of proportion! I wish I could put what I am thinking into words...

Sarah is right, the founding fathers wern't all christians.

At my job, we can get written up for saying anything that pertains to religion over the phones. We talk to a myriad of different kinds of people, and I know of one woman who loudly proclaims that she WILL say Merry Christmas, etc, and does not care if she gets written up, but nothing ever happens to her.. she is a really nice person, active in charity (she even gave half of her 3,000.00 bonus check to a woman who has cancer and no income.) But her religious conviction borders on fanaticism to me. I don't bring up or wish any debtors a happy anything on the phone, aside from something like "have a good weekend." If they say merry Anything, I would just reply with "you too." People who get mad about someone only wishing them happy holidays, are nuts in my book..

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Originally Posted by stangs13

I respect other religions, and the people who practice them! I have friends who arn't christians, and I love them the same as I do my christian friends. Some people blow this out of proportion! I wish I could put what I am thinking into words...

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I seriously wish that more people thought like you in that statement! The world would be a much less hostile, war-filled place.