Went up to visit Kara at NERD to get a snake and setup, have major questions.

Hello everyone, I am one very excited yet nervous BP owner.

Thursday I went up to see Kara at NERD and got an unbeleivable tour as well as a setup and beautiful snake. Before I begin I have to say that Kara is just a super cool/kind individual. She took a major amount of time showing me around and I was just blown away with their facility and the beautiful animals within it. Anyway, before I begin let me just say that Kara did explain how I should set the tank up but there was so much going on that not much of it sank in which brings me here. ;) She is a very busy girl and if I don't have to nag her and get questions answered here GREAT!

OK, Here is a picture of the enclosure I bought for the new boy. The cage was built buy Kevin and Kara (I beleive), very cool.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...son2007023.jpg

Anyway, I have a 50-60 gallon sized T-Rex heat mat connected to a CA RF100 thermostat. The mat is butted up against the left side of the cage but extends about 2 thirds accross the cage. I have the probe to the thermostat on top of the bedding under his hide. I have a digital thermometer set on the other side which will ( I hope anyway) be the cool side with the probe on to of the cypress there. I have the snakes other hide and waterbowls but I havent put them in yet seeing there is no need seeing the snake I bought still resides at NERD for the time being. My hopes are to try and get everything dialed in so I can go bring the boy home next Saturday. My fingers are crossed!

OK, at 6:00 I plugged the heat mat/thermostat in and set it on 95. At 7:00 the temp was 74.5. How long does it take to bring temps up when turning a thermostat on for the first time? Also, the humidity is reading 94% but I am assuming that's because I just put new/wet cypress mulch in the cage a minute before plugging everything in.

I see a ton of stuff on setting up glass tank setups but very little PVC enclosures like this. Can anyone help shed some light on this for me? I am really excited but very nervous things arent going to work out very easily on this. Hopefully I ca get things together so I can go bring the man home.

Thanks a ton iin advance for any help.

~Jason

everything should warm up and stable itself out but I'm not sure. Just wait it out and see what happens. Any other questions, feel free to ask. :D

First...it takes more than an hour to heat it up from the get go...so relax. Also a damp substate will take longer to heat but once heated will hold the temp longer.

Next how are you measuring the temp? Are you getting 75 at the probe site (under the hide) or up on the wall where I see the thermometer? Also, are you sure the thermostat and pad are working? Have you felt the bottom of the cage (below the substrate) to see if you can feel any heat?

Let me know on these and we will go from there.

Also, it was a really good idea to setup first and then bring your snake home as this will take a few days to get dialed in.

Thanks for the responces guys.

The thermometer on the left reads 78 and the one on the right reads 76. I don't have an infared temp gun yet so I am sut sure what the exact temp is under the hide where the probe to the thermostat is. I was wondering, is that thermometer on the right optimally placed? I am just nervous about the loose cord running down the back of the cage.

Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by BostonMacK

Thanks for the responces guys.

The thermometer on the left reads 78 and the one on the right reads 76. I don't have an infared temp gun yet so I am sut sure what the exact temp is under the hide where the probe to the thermostat is. I was wondering, is that thermometer on the right optimally placed? I am just nervous about the loose cord running down the back of the cage.

Thanks again!

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Assuming that the temp is being measured at the actual device (and not on the end of the cord) I would move both of them down near the bottom. You really don't need to worry about what the temp is up that high when you ball will never be up there. He will spend all of his time on the ground and this is where you want to measure the temps. Hard to tell from the pics but the one of the right has a probe lead (so you can measure temps at the end of the cord?) and the one on the right only measures at the unit...is this correct?

The thermostat probe should never be inside the enclosure, If the snake tips the water bowl and water gets to the probe it will heat the matt up like crazy, I dont use cypress for BP's Especially with that type of tank (the good kind) They hold humidity well. Id use shreaded aspen, Both of your thermometers need to be waaay lower and not stuck the the walls, heres what I would do ... heat matt under the tank (duh) thermostat probe right under there against the mat (taped to it, on the bottom of the enclosure) the matt should have come with little rubber things to hold you tank up higher. Ok so the matt and probe are both on the outside of the tank on the bottom, place the actual digital thermometer on the cool side right in the middle, and right on the floor not on the wall. then take the remote thermometer probe and stick it right in the hide (tape it to the bottom of the tank, but inside the enclosure) Thats how I would do it.

Wow, I just assumed the thermostat probe went inside the enclosure to give the reading that the snake would actually feel laying on the substrate. So the probe just monitors the heat of the mat, gotcha, I feel like an idiot.

Now, with the thermometer, I should mount the unit in the middle of the tank and run THAT probe into the snakes hide? You said to tape it to the floor of the tank. Should I tape the cord and allow the probe to sit on the substrate or actually tape the probe to the floor and have it covered with substrate.

Thanks for the help fellas, much appreciated.
~Jason

yeah just sit the thermometer on the cold side, dont have tomount the sticky stuff just sit it the on the substrate so you can see it, then take THAT probe and put it in the hide on the hot side, you can tabe the wire and let the temp. reading potion lay on the substrate,

About the thermostat probe, some people DO put it in the enclosure But accidents can happen that way. I would take it directly to the mat.

THEN heres how you start setting the thermostat temps, first set the thermostat to 95 (since the probe is on the mat directly the mat will heat to 95, but itll be a lil cooler on the inside) Im trying to explain it the best I can, but Im a visual type of person so bear with me. SO you set the temp on the T-stat to 95 then you wait at least 6 hrs id say, since you freshly plugged in your mat they take a long while to get completely hot, in 6 hrs check you inside thermometer it will be a few degrees cooler since your thermostat is heating the mat to 95, after a long while your temps as example may be 95 in the mat and 90 on you inside thermostat, so if you want it to be 92 inside you'll have to go to about 96-97 on your T-stat. If im not explaining it well enough let me know ill be glad to word it better.

If you choose to just put the T-stat probe inside the encloser put it on the hot side and tape it to the floor good. then you just set your T-stat to what ever temp you want, say 92 it will heat your mat to a temparature higher than 92 in order to get your probe area to 92 because you will loose a few degrees going through the floor.

I

All excellent info, except its not advised to use tape inside a viv. It inevitably comes up and if it's a really tacky tape and the snake gets caught up in it, the results can be nasty.

I use hot glue when fastening wires or probes inside the tank. seems to work ok.

Thanks a million guys, I am going to switch it around tomorrow morning. I can't wait to get this dialed in, it's killing me knowing my snakes waiting for me at NERD. Once this is set it's full sail ahead.

Yeah its really a great thing getting everything set up before hand, Im sure more questions/issues will come up before its time. Once you get it all set up you can just toss in the snake and let it chill for a week without having to bother it with rearranging and messing with stuff while its already stressed from the move.

What are you picking up btw? what morph?

oh man! I just lost my entire post!

*sigh* butterfingers!

anyway, I will try to retype it....

lots of good advice here!

My experiences are as follows:
I have a 48"x24"x18"tall plastic enclosure. It has flexiwatt under the floor that covers about half the bottom. I have that on a thermostat and the probe in my case is taped to the bottom of the enclosure under the substrate.
I have a digital thermometer/hygrometer on the cool side about 2 inches off the floor.
my room is 71 degrees and I have no other enclosures stacked on/under/around this one. (they add heat to each other if you do...nice benefit of multiple setups!)
I found that my cool side temps were not high enough with just the flexiwatt. The cage is just too large.
I insulated the enclosure heavily (if you want info on that let me know) but still it wasn't quite good enough.
Luckily I had ordered my enclosure with a built-in fixture on the hot side that could run a ceramic heat emitter. I added it and was all set for ambient heat on the cool side.
Many people recommend that you use a human heating pad laying on top of your enclosure to boost temps on the cool side if you need to. These pads have their own thermostat. I would recommend laying something heat reflective over the pad to make it more efficient.
This might be the way to go for you IF you end up needing it.

Another aspect of having a large display enclosure (I love them too!) is the process of transitioning your snake into it. Your snake will come from the breeder where it has lived its whole life in a small tub. Moving to a new place with a new owner is going to be stressful enough, and if the enclosure is large like yours it might really set your snake back on feeding due to being overwhelmed. So, in my case what I did was buy a medium sized tub about 12" x 20" x 8" deep with a secure lid. I burned ventilation holes in it, outfitted it with two hides and a water dish, and put the whole thing INSIDE the large enclosure on the cool side, which I maintained at 80F. Newspaper or paper towels as substrate since the tub runs humid.
When I brought my 6 month old snake home he lived in that tub with the lid on tight for many weeks while he adjusted. Once he was eating agressively and had shed for me, I slowly transitioned him into the larger enclosure one step at a time until finally I removed the tub completely. Minimizing change keeps the snake feeling secure and feeding well.
The tub will not go to waste after the transition since when you need to clean the enclosure you will need a secure place to put your pet while you are busy cleaning. That old tub will be the perfect thing for the lifetime of your snake!

So that's my $1.25
here are some pics:
The tub setup the day I brought my snake home:
http://i.ugtz.com/albums/Jens-Terrar...7_07.sized.jpg

longer shot showing the large enclosure with the tub in it:
http://i.ugtz.com/albums/Jens-Terrar...3433.sized.jpg

Enclosure post-transition. It took many weeks of changing one thing per week but it's finally done!
http://i.ugtz.com/albums/Jens-Terrar...8_07.sized.jpg

cypress is a mess when you first put it in. I recommend opening both doors for a few minutes every hour until it stops sending the humidity above 80%.
all that moisture is definitely what slows down the temperature response of the enclosure. Plus in my case my snake is living in there and all that humidity can't be good for him!

I plan to use Aspen in the summer when the room humidity is reasonable. Winters are so dry here I use cypress to compensate.

good luck!

Fish,

Your snake is gorgeous to say the least. You must be overwhelmed with joy having a setup like that and having it dialed in correctly. I am sure you remember the worry going into this, I just keep thinking "am I going to be able to provide the snake with what it needs" or is it just not going to happen? I live in New Englans and the weather here fluctuates so much it's insane.

I am just hoping to get things figured out by Saturday so I can get the snake and have 3 full days to monitor him in his enclosure before I head back to work.

I am in contact with Kara so I am sure she will help me figure things out. I just have that Saturday deadline in my head and I have been doing nothing other than reading here, reading the book Kara gave me and tweeking the enclosure. Last night when I went to bed I stuck the thermometer probe under the hide on the hotside and it was sitting at a nice 95 which was a nice starting point to start dialing things in. This morning due to recomendations here I took the stat probe out of the cage and taped it to the heat mat and I havent been able to get a temp over 82 and right now it's at 79.

I just want to get the fundamentals down and i'll feel better, it's allot to think about at first. I drank about 8 beers last night to cope with the stress, maybe that wasnt the smartest thing to do when your trying to use your brain huh ;)

Thanks for chiming in!

OMG!!! You got to meet Kara and see the NERD facility??!!! :O I am like, soo jealous. Lucky!!!!! :P Gorgeous snake. Whatcha gonna call em'?

I sure did 4thsnake!

All I can say is Oh My God! I could have walked around there for 8 hours. Hell, I was blown away just walking around the petstore, nevermind the upstairs area.It's not every day you can see a ton of beautiful BP morphs, two King Fishers, a couple cobras, a Gaboon Viper, and anything else you can imagine. Hearing those King Fishers laughing just reminded you every movie you have watched with a jungle scene, soo damn cool! I can't wait to go up and bring my snake home but he's in good hands ;)

Kingfishers??? I thought they had Kukkaburras (sp?)

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

Kingfishers??? I thought they had Kukkaburras (sp?)

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They are Kookaburras :) And cuties.

you'll get there BostonMAck....I was exactly in your shoes just a couple months ago....reading, dialing in, visiting NERD, etc.

it seems like a huge mountain to climb but before you know it you'll be on top of things and amazed at how quick it was :)
one thing for sure: you are on the right track coming here and hooking up with Kara :rockon:

the temps thing you just need to play with for a few days. if you need to buy a heating pad it's just a quick trip to the drug store and you're good to go :)

Just about to head off to work. Man I wish I couls stay home and keep working on this.

Anyway, when I went to bed last night the temp was 82.1 under his hide on the warm side. After looking at it this morning it's only at 84.9 and the heat pad is not showing that it's even heating. It's like it cycled off yet I have it set to 100. My main concern is that this one pad is not going to be enough to heat this enclosure in my house. The area it's in has an ambient temp of about 70-72. When I get home tonight I am going to cut a piece of styrafoam to fit the bottom of the enclosure and hopefully direct some of that lost heat into the snakes enclosure.

I am going to give kara a call today and see what she says. Thanks!

~Jason

Azure,

My mistake, but they look very much like King Fishers. Very cool birds to say the least.

is your probe inside the encloure or is it underneath where the flex is?


with larger enclosures, the probe pretty much HAS to be inside the enclosure because the flex heats up to the programmed temp and it isn't enough to keep the inside of the enclosure heated. If you think of it in terms of heat FLOW, the large enclosure has more heat losses and therefore will be difficult to control if the probe is underneath where heat losses/flow are pretty small because it's all pancaked together.

if your probe is in fact in the enclosure but under the substrate you could try moving it on top of the substrate. If that doesn't work then you're gonna need some supplemental heat.

Insulation WILL HELP! insulation reduces the heat flowing out of the enclosure so it will build up nicely AND save you energy too.
Insulating the top and bottom would be great. I did the top, bottom, back, and sides and it made a huge difference! I used 2" thick pink foam insulation sheets and covered them with Contac paper to make it look less ghetto.

Hey Fish,

Things are looking good, well better atleast!

I spoke with Kara on my lunch break and she was a huge help. As stated before at first I had the probe inside the enclosure, the first night it read 97 right before I went to bed. The next morning a couple forum members had responded to this thread telling me to never keep the thermostat probe inside the enclosure incase the water dish ever spilled or what not. They recomended I tape it to the heatpad underneath the enclosure. When I did that I could barely get the temp over 80. So then I switched it back inside the enclosure and taped it to the inside bottom underneath my boys hide. Then I took my thermometer probe and left it on top of the substrate under the hide which was about 1.5" of cypress mulch. After talking to Kara she recomended I put the thermostat probe on the bottom of the enclosure underneath the cypress next to the thermostat probe because she thought the temp would be much higher than what the thermometer was reading. After doing that about a minute ago (ran in the door from work and went right for the enclosure :D ) I got the following reading

Hot side 100.3 :eek: and here I was trying to get it up to atleast 90!

Ambient temp in the cage is 78.8 and humidity is at 71%

I think I am going to need to possibly use your insulation method to keep my ambient temps up.

All I can say is that I am super excited, last night I was in a state of depression because I was thinking it just wasnt going to happen. Now I can begin to get excited again about picking up my snake this coming Saturday. It was hard to be excited about something I wasn't sure was going to work out, now I can see the light.

Thanks you so much Fish and everyone else for taking the time to help me out on this. I am an animal freak through and through and I wouldnt even think about bringing an animal home if I couldnt provide it with what it needed. A few weeks ago I bought a beta fish for my 18 month old son and it died 4 days later and I was seriously bummed, I can't imagine of something happened to an otherwise healthy BP.

I am an illustrator and I am going to do a nice BP illustration for Kara just as a thanks for her help. She is taking me and my family on another tour when i pick up the snake, can't wait!

~Jason