morphs, hets?

okay im new to BP and i am still learning. fact is ill probably still be learning in 10 or 20 years :P well question is i REALLY like the albino bp and spider and pastel and lemon bp.. how are normal bp implanted with the right dna to create such beautiful snakes? why are males wayyyyy cheaper then the females? how old will a bp achieve full length and how old to breed? thanks... just some questions messing with my head as i view all these beautiful websites selling. 8ball has some EXTREMELY beautiful ones but i dont think the wife will let me up and buy a 1k dollar snake :P ill do side jobs. i see normals with the gene for sale really cheap. so you buy them? raise them up and they breed what you want? wow, kinda fascinating. thanks for any answers and explanation.

http://www.ballpython.ca/

They have easy to understand genetics, NERD's website goes alot more indepth plus they have awesome pictures
www.newenglandreptile.com

Spiders are dominant. You need a spider to make a spider. There are no hets.


Pastels are co-dominant. You need a pastel to make a pastel or breed 2 pastels to make a super pastel. There are no hets.

Albinos are simple recessive. That means the normal looking offspring from an albino breeding will carry one half of the genetics to make and albino.
The percentage of hets means the chance they can produce an albino.
100% hets mean that there is a 100% change they carry the genetics to make an albino. People buy hets since they are cheaper than visuals and then raise them up and breed them. Statistically, you should end up with an albino.

Males are cheaper since you can breed on male to multiple females. You don't need many. Females are more expensive since they are needed to make combos and as a breeder.

They typically max at about 4 feet. Takes a few years to acheive full size. Breeding is weight related mainly. Males can breed at about 800 grams and females at 1500 grams. Males usually 1 1/2 years old and females at about 3 years old before they can breed. Older and larger animals make for the best breeders.

wow some great information! thanks a bunch. i wish i had 2 full growns so i could breed :P i want a albino, pastel, spider, lemon, and of course my normal and that would be my collection of my babys.. but seems will cost me a car so i dont think so........ yet :P

getting hets is a great way to get morphs on a budget! buy a pair of hets and raise them up and make your own morph. this will also give you expierence caring/breeding balls.



vaughn

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Originally Posted by kavmon

getting hets is a great way to get morphs on a budget! buy a pair of hets and raise them up and make your own morph. this will also give you expierence caring/breeding balls.



vaughn

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true. im actually looking at it and maybe im dumb but im reading up on it. so how do hets have the gene to produce? are they injected or something? and say i wanted a pastel........ id have to buy 2 pastel hets to produce pastels or 1 pastel and 1 norm? if you mix hets say pastel and spider or something is that common? wow this is like a whole new arena! hahaha. im very interested though and i would possibly try it out.

you're going to have to read a bit on the above sites!


basically most morphs are either recessive or co-dom.

ie. pastel is codom, bred to normals, half the babies will be pastels, half normals.

albinos are recessive, each parent has to have the albino genes (100%) hets. the hets are normal looking but carry the albino gene.

albino x normal = 100% hets
100% het x normal = 50% chance of being hets


vaughn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kavmon

you're going to have to read a bit on the above sites!


basically most morphs are either recessive or co-dom.

ie. pastel is codom, bred to normals, half the babies will be pastels, half normals.

albinos are recessive, each parent has to have the albino genes (100%) hets. the hets are normal looking but carry the albino gene.

albino x normal = 100% hets
100% het x normal = 50% chance of being hets


vaughn

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thanks again. im reading those sites and i think im understanding this snake language :P so if i want a pastel i have to get either the male or female 100% Het pastel gene and i can breed that with a norm of the opposite sex. for a albino basically both partys have to carry the 100% gene? interesting. know anyone who sells hets at a descent price? theres alot of good sites to purchase from but any advice or one in particular? if anyone lives in the u.s. and doesnt mind pming me your number so we can talk once in a while that be awesome. im trying to absorb so much of this but just takes time.

There is no het for pastel.


You would need to buy a pastel.

Same with a spider.

Dominant and co-dominant mutations do not have hets.

The recessive mutations are the ones that you can get hets for.

Pastel x normal = half pastel and half normal in the clutch.

Spider x normal = half spider and half normal in the clutch

Albino x normal = all normal looking animals carrying the recessive albino gene

100% het albino x 100% het albino = albinos and 66% possible het for albino (means that there is a 66% chance that the normal looking offspring carry the albino gene)

Now if you want to get into crosses........;)

Pastel x spider = bumblebee

I'll leave the crosses alone for now. That can get confusing when you combine recessives, doms, etc.:D

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Originally Posted by K80tik

i dont think the wife will let me up and buy a 1k dollar snake

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She'll only be upset for a little while. LOL.

Maybe this will help out with clarifying albino het breeding a little bit.


In this picture are 3 siblings that were the result of two 100% het albinos being bred.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...1/DSCN0335.jpg

One animal is the albino (since both parents carried the recessive gene) and the other 2 are 66% possible hets for albino. They look normal but there is basically a 66% chance that one or both are carrying the recessive gene.

Same applies with 100% hets. They will look normal in appearence but carry the recessive gene needed to produce an albino.

To get you albino the most inexpensive way would be to buy two 100% hets, grow them up, and then breed them. You should end up with one or more albinos in the clutch (statistically speaking:D ).

Thats a beauty of an albino, thumbs up.

SPJ.......... first off your AWESOME! and thank you for clarifying everything up. i got it now :) that is one hell of a albino! but if i bought 2 hets that were babys would take a long........time. guess patience is the key eh? lol and i talked to my wife about 2 hets and she said fine on that :P but i notice most 100% albino hets for the pair vary from 700 to 1000 on up :( but the 700 seem like babys so iunno. i need to win the lottery so i can start a good collection :P anyone selling a 1.1 100% albino het bp's? :P

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Originally Posted by K80tik

SPJ.......... first off your AWESOME! and thank you for clarifying everything up. i got it now :) that is one hell of a albino! but if i bought 2 hets that were babys would take a long........time. guess patience is the key eh? lol and i talked to my wife about 2 hets and she said fine on that :P but i notice most 100% albino hets for the pair vary from 700 to 1000 on up :( but the 700 seem like babys so iunno. i need to win the lottery so i can start a good collection :P anyone selling a 1.1 100% albino het bp's? :P

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If you are finding them for $1000 a pair you are looking in the wrong places. Tons of reputable breeders sell them for $500 a pair. I won't go into exact prices, but I bought a 1000 g 100% het female and a 150 g 100% het male and I did not pay $1000.

there will be a bunch when the 2007 babies hatch out

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

If you are finding them for $1000 a pair you are looking in the wrong places. Tons of reputable breeders sell them for $500 a pair. I won't go into exact prices, but I bought a 1000 g 100% het female and a 150 g 100% het male and I did not pay $1000.

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may i ask where? jeeze i wish i could find some for a good price and a good size and healthy. has yours had any born yet? btw spj wife says your albino is the best looking snake she's ever seen :P sad i wish there was some BP breeders in el paso, texas. cant find anyone. well theres a exotic pet store here that was selling a actual albino male for 200. but i got there and he was gone :( anyone in texas want a norm bp for free? pm me

Look on kingsnake.com


I saw a few days ago a post with 2 or 3 1000 g 100% het females for around $800 each.

Mine have not had babies yet because unfortunately neither are large enough to breed yet.

:( im gonna go back to the pet store that had the albino male for 200 and see if he can get another albino for me.

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Originally Posted by K80tik

:( im gonna go back to the pet store that had the albino male for 200 and see if he can get another albino for me.

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Beware.. if it was an actual albino for $200, it was likely a burmese python, not a ball python. A male albino ball python of any size will be close to $1000 or more.

A burmese python gets much, much larger than a ball python. Below is a picture of an albino burmese (and they get larger than that)

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2006-09/25213387.jpg

Rick

yes i dont want a burmese that can achieve 22ft and weight 200 pounds. nope not for me :) i love ball pythons though.

Thanks for the compliments on that little girl. She is one of my favorites.


You might want to check Kingsnake.com under the ball python section. Should be able to find 2006 hatchlings for $500 a pair shipped to your door.

Good luck but remember, you won't be able to stop with just an albino ball python. LOL.:D
You'll want more.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...1/DSCN0341.jpg

Do I see bees in your future?

Yes you do as well as albino spiders if I'm lucky.:D

If ya can't afford to buy 'em, you just gotta make 'em. LOL.

lol so true spj i already have my mind set on a few :P albino, hypo pastel, spider,lemon etc. so many different beautiful babys. guess it will just take some time. thanks for info and wow that spiders beautiful!

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Originally Posted by K80tik

lol so true spj i already have my mind set on a few :P albino, hypo pastel, spider,lemon etc. so many different beautiful babys. guess it will just take some time. thanks for info and wow that spiders beautiful!

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lemon is just a different line of pastel. I am unaware of a morph just called a lemon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

lemon is just a different line of pastel. I am unaware of a morph just called a lemon

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k thanks i didnt know. im obviously new to bp's. thought it was a different line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SPJ

There is no het for pastel.

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I would just like to, hopefully, clear something up that always irks me when genetics get brought up. Here is a textbook definition of Heterozygous:

Heterozygous
An organism is a heterozygote or is heterozygous at a locus or gene when it has different alleles occupying the gene's position in each of the homologouschromosomes. In other words, it describes an individual that has 2 different alleles for a trait. In diploid organisms, the two different alleles were inherited from the organism's two parents. For example a heterozygous individual would have the allele combination Pp.

With that said, there is a such thing as Hets in dominant traits. A Pastel is actually a Het for Super Pastel. Once you understand the definition of Heterozygous, it makes it alot easier to figure out punnet squares, and also answers many peoples questions about what do I get when I breed a pastel to a pastel and what do I get when I breed a Het Albino to a Het Albino. The squares for those two breedings look identical if you have a basic understanding of the terms.
Hope that didn't muddy it up for anyone,

Thanks Tim. I was going to post that. It erks me when people scream "Pastels don't have hets". Pastels ARE hets for supers, and once this concept of "visual hets" for codominate Homosygous supers is discussed, I think it makes it easier for people who are unclear about genetics to figure out.

thanks to the both of you for clarifying up the information. good to have the correct info then negative info. thanks again!

I know this thread is old, I didnt want to be a thread whore and make a thread for one question.

If youve bred a spider to a piebald and the piebald laid 4 eggs. whats the outcome. 2spiders? 1 het pied?, 1.1 het piebald?

25% Normal
25% Spider
25% Spider het Pied
25% Het Pied

Edit: Opps did the punnits square for a het pied to spider combo

I think you would get 50% Spider Het Pied and 50% Het Pied Normals

I know someone trying to sell me a 100% Het piedball male...he said the mom was a spider and the dad was a visual piedball

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Originally Posted by crisstyle21

I know someone trying to sell me a 100% Het piedball male...he said the mom was a spider and the dad was a visual piedball

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If that is in fact the case then yes he would have 100% Het Pied normals out of that clutch. Keep in mind when buying hets; they're only as good as the person you're buying them from.

Theoretically you would get 2 Spiders Het Pied and 2 Het pieds. There is no theoretical on sex ratios. But you obviously have a %50 chance of each animal being male/female.

Sorry, I didn't see the forth page when I posted this.