for all you spider owners out there...

so i have a question for all of you who have seen, touched, held a spider ball - what is it you personally look for in a spider. is it a reduced pattern? is it more black? how about high white sides? or do you prefer low white sides?

i'm thinking/hoping to get one and although i think i know what i want... i've never actually seen one in person and we all know they look different in person than in a pic over the net...

so enlighten me please. feel free to post pics as well.

thanks!

High white sides, reduced pattern, and NO HEAD WOBBLE.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...s/DSCN0049.jpg

This is Willow... My friend T got her at the same time as I was getting my female Pastel Biancka from BHB in Arlington.... IMO She is supa sexy reduced and light! I thought she was one of the best spiders at the whole show!
I luuuuub her! :wuv:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...C%2007/057.jpg

from the ride home...

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...C%2007/052.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...C%2007/051.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SPJ

High white sides, reduced pattern, and NO HEAD WOBBLE.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...s/DSCN0049.jpg

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That white is HOTTT! :sunny:

Wow, what pretty spiders! For me personally, I like high white sides but low whites are just as sweet! As long as the white is bright, I'm not to picky. Here's our male spider, Kraken.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...akenresize.jpg

High white sides, reduced pattern, and a head tilted ever so slightly to the side...its cute. ;)

The only time I notice any erratic spinn-ish type of behavior is when she eats. Other than that, nothing out of the ordinary.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...male_rana2.JPG

Larger version onf my avatar.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...s/DSCN0216.jpg

heres my perfect spideyhttps://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../8/6/poopy.jpg

Ohhhh..... Me likie this thread! :spid0r: :wuv: :spid0r:

Heres a little cutie girl. :P http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...g?t=1172892402

is head wobble a problem with spiders?

Head wobble....:bolt:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

is head wobble a problem with spiders?

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no seriously... is it?

Yes. Some show signs of minimal wobble while others have it so severe that they cannot even function normally just as some do not show any signs of it.


Avoid ones with a wobble. It is believed to be a neuroligical problem associated with the spider gene.

The bad part is a spider without a wobble can produce babies with the wobble and vice versa.

I looked for a long time but finally found a spider with no wobble that was produced by an adult spider that never showed the wobble.

Here is a link to a thread I started a while back on Fauna regarding the wobble on some spiders. Lots of good information regarding the topic was posted by many people.


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...=spider+wobble

Here's the deal...lots of people are beginning to notice that at some point in the life of a spider, they exhibit some sign of a "motor control" issue. Keep in mind that normals can exhibit this trait too!

Where the issue comes into play is when you are talking about selling spiders and buyers having all the facts on the issue. There are people out there that, without knowing all the facts, will go on a message board crying and making waves about how so and so sold them a spider that wasn't a spinner but then it did exhibit some spinning behaviors. That's the reason why some sellers don't want to touch the issue.

Some spiders spin to a very high degree, to the point that no responsible breeder would even think about selling or breeding it. Others spin to such a lesser degree that their keeper probably never ever notices it. And just because a hatchling doesn't show signs of spinning, there's no way a seller can guarantee that it never will.

But here's some food for thought - look at how many spiders are making it into collections everywhere...look how many spider combos there are out there...they are obviously eating, growing, and breeding well....so it can only be concluded that spinning obviously isn't any more a health issue in spiders as it is in normals.

As a buyer, just don't be surprised when one day you observe some 'funky' behavior by your spider. ;)

Brad, I applaud your honesty and courage with this post! it is exactly what a Spider is all about. Spiders will do things that you will never see other ball pythons do. it makes me cringe when I hear a breeder tell someone that their Spiders dont exhibit these behaviors. the facts are that Spiders are strong feeders that grow well and breed. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Here's the deal...lots of people are beginning to notice that at some point in the life of a spider, they exhibit some sign of a "motor control" issue. Keep in mind that normals can exhibit this trait too!

Where the issue comes into play is when you are talking about selling spiders and buyers having all the facts on the issue. There are people out there that, without knowing all the facts, will go on a message board crying and making waves about how so and so sold them a spider that wasn't a spinner but then it did exhibit some spinning behaviors. That's the reason why some sellers don't want to touch the issue.

Some spiders spin to a very high degree, to the point that no responsible breeder would even think about selling or breeding it. Others spin to such a lesser degree that their keeper probably never ever notices it. And just because a hatchling doesn't show signs of spinning, there's no way a seller can guarantee that it never will.

But here's some food for thought - look at how many spiders are making it into collections everywhere...look how many spider combos there are out there...they are obviously eating, growing, and breeding well....so it can only be concluded that spinning obviously isn't any more a health issue in spiders as it is in normals.

As a buyer, just don't be surprised when one day you observe some 'funky' behavior by your spider. ;)

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Here's a great write up that Adam recently did on Spiders:


The Real Spin on Spiders

Hope that helps! And I think my favorite all time spider was the one that Susan (daaang) got from Adam this year - I hope she posts a picture of it!

I like them all, but I like this one the best, because he is mine!!
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...r/2-24-073.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...1-07belly2.jpg

I agree with syclone! Everyone has some killer spiders going on!!! But Ganoush is my lil hottie!https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...ies/th_sun.gif

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2.../snakeys/2.jpg


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2.../snakeys/1.jpg

Ok...how many times have I posted this pic now? Hehe!https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...ies/tongue.gif
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...nakeys/bg5.jpg

i went for light color and reduced pattern
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...128_edited.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...126_edited.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...3/DSCF0907.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...131_edited.jpg

i dig cool patterns/head markings and bright color!


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../9/spi06m2.JPG

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/DSCN1186.JPG



vaughn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

I agree with syclone! Everyone has some killer spiders going on!!! But Ganoush is my lil hottie!https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...ies/th_sun.gif

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2.../snakeys/2.jpg

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The above pic is a perfect example of what would be my idea of a hot spider...love the thin "inky" black markings, no alien head spots, nice white creeping up the sides...oh and awesome head pattern...amazing snake...:eek:

No spots; nice amount of white (not too high nor low.) An asymetrical head. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daaangconcepts

Ok...how many times have I posted this pic now? Hehe!https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...ies/tongue.gif
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...nakeys/bg5.jpg

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uhmmm...this one is my fav pic! :D I wonder why...... ;)

There are two things that I like about spiders.....

One is the 'highlights' around their pattern.....the brighter the better! It would be so cool to selectively breed spiders to have a 'neon glow' effect around all their black pattern ;)
http://danielhillreptiles.com/BALL%2...NS/Anansi5.jpg

The other is the color of their sides......I don't care for the pure white....but I dig when they have pastel yellow creeping up their sides....should make for some great bumblebees ;)
http://danielhillreptiles.com/BALL%2...NS/Anansi1.jpg

I need to take some updated pictures of this girl this weekend. These are about 6 months old or so.

Well first I'll address the spinners of the spider world. This is taken word for word from adams BLOG. he is the only breeder I have that will admit THEY ALL DO IT! if you say your doesn't you just haven't looked close enough. I thought mine didn't but then I talked to Kara and Adam and Ralph and found out that there is more to spinning than just shaking its head or corkscrewing. Heres the BLOG.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 8 Ball Pythons blog

When I purchased my first spider many years ago, I had heard and was told about “spinning” in spider ball pythons. The way it was described, I understood “spinning” to be a condition where the animal continually loops their head and neck in a “corkscrew” motion and barely has the ability to sit still. I looked over my spider and there was no “cork screwing” so in my mind, he wasn’t a “spinner”.

Over the years that followed as I raised my spider, I heard a lot of big breeders making statements like “all spiders spin” or “all spiders are tweaked” and I really got pissed off. How could they be saying stuff like that? All they were doing was hurting any chance I ever had at selling spiders. Surely I would produce spiders that didn’t spin and if they were telling people that every single one was “tweaked”, I’d be cooked!

Then, I started producing my own spiders. Within my first couple of clutches I noticed a couple that “weren’t right”, but no big deal, I just wouldn’t sell those. Then I started looking harder. I noticed different degrees of odd behavior in all of the spiders that I produced. Some shook their head from side to side, some spun like tops, and others did the corkscrew thing as they were cruising their cage at night, still others were less noticeable but it was there. The less noticeable ones didn’t wobble or corkscrew, but they held their head at an angle when you looked at them. Kind of like the way a dog looks when it hears something it doesn’t understand. So then I started looking at spiders. Spiders in my friends collections, spiders at shows, spiders in pictures posted on the internet. All of them do it do some degree, all of them.

I’ve read the internet rumors that it has something to do with the amount of white, or the head pattern, or the connecting or non-connecting neck stripe on the animals neck … bologna! It doesn’t matter, they all do it. I’ve also heard that spider siblings do it. After producing tons of spider clutches, I don’t find that to be an accurate statement. I do believe that breeders have seen “spinning” in spider siblings, but I don’t think that it is any more common in the normal looking siblings of spiders than it is in any other normal looking ball python. Over the years (and before I ever heard of spinning in spiders) I have produced a heterozygous albino and a normal looking pastel sibling that spin the exact same way that spiders do. I feel that it is a condition that can effect all ball pythons but for whatever reason is common in spiders. I’ve also heard that the reason spiders spin is because they were so inbred early on in the project … ridiculous. The recessive mutations out there have been inbred/line bred by an order of magnitude more than spiders. The notion that a co-dominant/dominant mutation can be inbred more than a recessive is an ill informed one.

I finally understood what the big breeders were saying. It’s not always as in your face as people expect it to be, but it’s there in each and every spider. You just have to know what to look for. Now I know a lot of people are going to read this and say “no, not my spider”. I’m telling you, your spider does it too. You just have to know what to look for. I’m not sure what the answer is, but I know one thing for sure … spin or not, I LOVE SPIDERS! I love their natural variation, I love the combos that they make, I love everything about them. I will always breed and produce spiders. I will do my best to keep my customers informed about them as much as I am and leave the decision to them. If I have to end up keeping every spider and spider I produce … well, that’s fine with me! :-)

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Now to what I look for in a spider PATTERN! I love patterns.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../0/MSpider.JPG


http://www.wildmorphs.com/uploads/spidershed.jpg

pssst....I already posted the link to his blog! ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Well first I'll address the spinners of the spider world. This is taken word for word from adams BLOG. he is the only breeder I have that will admit THEY ALL DO IT! if you say your doesn't you just haven't looked close enough. I thought mine didn't but then I talked to Kara and Adam and Ralph and found out that there is more to spinning than just shaking its head or corkscrewing. Heres the BLOG.

When I purchased my first spider many years ago, I had heard and was told about “spinning” in spider ball pythons. The way it was described, I understood “spinning” to be a condition where the animal continually loops their head and neck in a “corkscrew” motion and barely has the ability to sit still. I looked over my spider and there was no “cork screwing” so in my mind, he wasn’t a “spinner”.

Over the years that followed as I raised my spider, I heard a lot of big breeders making statements like “all spiders spin” or “all spiders are tweaked” and I really got pissed off. How could they be saying stuff like that? All they were doing was hurting any chance I ever had at selling spiders. Surely I would produce spiders that didn’t spin and if they were telling people that every single one was “tweaked”, I’d be cooked!

Then, I started producing my own spiders. Within my first couple of clutches I noticed a couple that “weren’t right”, but no big deal, I just wouldn’t sell those. Then I started looking harder. I noticed different degrees of odd behavior in all of the spiders that I produced. Some shook their head from side to side, some spun like tops, and others did the corkscrew thing as they were cruising their cage at night, still others were less noticeable but it was there. The less noticeable ones didn’t wobble or corkscrew, but they held their head at an angle when you looked at them. Kind of like the way a dog looks when it hears something it doesn’t understand. So then I started looking at spiders. Spiders in my friends collections, spiders at shows, spiders in pictures posted on the internet. All of them do it do some degree, all of them.

I’ve read the internet rumors that it has something to do with the amount of white, or the head pattern, or the connecting or non-connecting neck stripe on the animals neck … bologna! It doesn’t matter, they all do it. I’ve also heard that spider siblings do it. After producing tons of spider clutches, I don’t find that to be an accurate statement. I do believe that breeders have seen “spinning” in spider siblings, but I don’t think that it is any more common in the normal looking siblings of spiders than it is in any other normal looking ball python. Over the years (and before I ever heard of spinning in spiders) I have produced a heterozygous albino and a normal looking pastel sibling that spin the exact same way that spiders do. I feel that it is a condition that can effect all ball pythons but for whatever reason is common in spiders. I’ve also heard that the reason spiders spin is because they were so inbred early on in the project … ridiculous. The recessive mutations out there have been inbred/line bred by an order of magnitude more than spiders. The notion that a co-dominant/dominant mutation can be inbred more than a recessive is an ill informed one.

I finally understood what the big breeders were saying. It’s not always as in your face as people expect it to be, but it’s there in each and every spider. You just have to know what to look for. Now I know a lot of people are going to read this and say “no, not my spider”. I’m telling you, your spider does it too. You just have to know what to look for. I’m not sure what the answer is, but I know one thing for sure … spin or not, I LOVE SPIDERS! I love their natural variation, I love the combos that they make, I love everything about them. I will always breed and produce spiders. I will do my best to keep my customers informed about them as much as I am and leave the decision to them. If I have to end up keeping every spider and spider I produce … well, that’s fine with me! :-)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

pssst....I already posted the link to his blog! ;)

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:eek: Guess I missed it o well to much Wysocki is never enough.. LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

pssst....I already posted the link to his blog! ;)

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Yeah but some peope can't view his blog.....stupid 18 only limit...

I forgot me spider looks!!


I LOVE a high white Spider with a really really dark and reduced pattern, with a pattern that doesn't break to much down the snake....BUMMBLE BEE MAKERS!:rockon: :carrot:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Yeah but some peope can't view his blog.....stupid 18 only limit...

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Then it's good Ed posted it. But the limit is not stupid. :colbert:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Then it's good Ed posted it. But the limit is not stupid. :colbert:

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I was just kidding!:taz:

Maybe I should have included a smiliey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Then it's good Ed posted it. But the limit is not stupid. :colbert:

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not to get to far off topic. But your right Adam might want to post something a little age sensitive so the 18 and over protects younger web users from stumbling across it. But I feel that it was more that pertainet to the thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

not to get to far off topic. But your right Adam might want to post something a little age sensitive so the 18 and over protects younger web users from stumbling across it. But I feel that it was more that pertainet to the thread.

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You saw the topic in The Quarentine! What is more worse than that? But yes, lets not get off topic.

I love spiders they are one if not the top of my fav five. Can't wait to pop some of the kids of next year.

Spiders may do things that you have never seen a snake do before, but these guys are still on the top of my favorite list. :) http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...g?t=1174051868

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

but these guys are still on the top of my favorite list. :)

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I agree Ed!

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/.../spider-01.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/.../spider-02.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/.../spider-02.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/...-breeding1.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/...-breeding2.jpg

http://www.8ballpythons.com/uploads/...-breeding3.jpg

-adam

I like the borders Adam!! That last 2 are nice!! And that last spider is HOTT!:rockon:

Adam, you keep showing off spiders like that, you may be getting a ringy dingy soon! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Here's a great write up that Adam recently did on Spiders:


The Real Spin on Spiders

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Amazing.

Steve

I have only seen a few other people hit on my two most important traits in Spiders. I am in agreement with Daniel, in that I love the bright orange that borders the black pattern in some Spiders. I also look for a really wacked out head pattern. I do also like really reduced and high white sides, but head pattern and orange bordering are my criteria (I used those criteria when picking out my original male by the way). Here is one of my favorite Spiders that we hatched this year.



http://www.baileyreptiles.com/pics/b06sf2.jpg

And here are some hold back females from this year.
http://www.baileyreptiles.com/pics/spiderhb.jpg

Great Thread,

I'm with you Tim !!!!! Pattern!!!!

Can't help but love :spid0r: who can resist a face like this


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...ZoeMar07_1.jpg

Tim,

You have some ridiculously good looking spiders! I love that top right girl with the nice barbwire back.:sunny:

A spider male and female are definitely on my must have list this year.

-Jason

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBallPython

Tim,

You have some ridiculously good looking spiders! I love that top right girl with the nice barbwire back.:sunny:

A spider male and female are definitely on my must have list this year.

-Jason

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Ditto Jason... Ooooo... name her Pamela! LOL.. Hott, barbwire, ... nevermind! :oops: And I'm with Danial & Tim... I love the highlighting as well.... good stuf!

Gotta love the spiders! Everything looks better with spider in it!
My Female
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...atraCHILIN.jpg

My Male
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...Zueschilin.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w...esHeadshot.jpg

I love the looks of spiders, but after seeing a few that would sit with their head totally upside down 24/7 I have decided not to work with them. I don't look down on anyone who does breed them; they are just not for me. Below is a link to a pic of a really bad one (There is also a pic of the nicest one I have ever seen on the same page). There are a few other bad ones on the below thread but the pics on page 8 are what made me decide against buying any spiders. It's ashame to. I was planning on trying for a lesser bee next year, but now I am going for a king pin instead.

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/fo...16&whichpage=8

wow all these pics are making me wanna get one:D

Can someone please post what exactly to look for as far as wobble, spinning, weird behavior, etc?


I have not noticed any odd behavior from my female spider. She acts and moves just like the rest of the BP's.

According to Adam, all spiders have the quirks and can be seen if you know what to look for?

This peaked my curiousity. What exactly should I look for so I can check?