Genetics Guarantee

How exactly can someone guarantee the genetics of a heterozygous animal? What does signed paperwork really prove?
Lets say a breeder "guarantees genetics" and provides "signed paperwork" and years later it turns out to be normal...what is a signed piece of paper worth?

what if multiple thousands of dollars become involved in a scam...will signed paper work hold up in a court of law?

To me, signed paper work simply means that breeder is willing to stand behind the animals they produce to in fact be what it says they will be.


Just something i've been pondering...wanted to get everyones thoughts :)

If someone is willing to stand behind there animals genetics, then they should refund your animal(s)?

I would rather have a animal with papers than without.

It's a tough call; I really think that seller/breeder trust is key before buying hets. Get as much background info that you can, research and followup if the person selling them did not produce them.. if someone were to be selling hets and said "not sure who produced them.." it would make me leery.
Not sure how paperwork would hold up in court..?

Yeah I agree on the "do your research" part. But even then, it's a tough call. TSE had an awesome reputation (from what I gather...i don't know from personal experience), but then their "guarantees" and "signed paperwork" were simply words and a piece of paper...worthless. They got their @$$ handed to them years later too.

It is a breeder saying they are putting there name and reputation on the animals back ground. If I know the breeder then I don't need papers just your word. Someone KLG, Adam, Sean, Cue, Ralph and so one tells me its 100% het albino or what ever, to me their word is as good as gold. Its more for the peace of mind of the customer.

that is tough

get them to sign another paper saying you can get a refund if it turns out to be a normal:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

It is a breeder saying they are putting there name and reputation on the animals back ground. If I know the breeder then I don't need papers just your word. Someone KLG, Adam, Sean, Cue, Ralph and so one tells me its 100% het albino or what ever, to me their word is as good as gold. Its more for the peace of mind of the customer.

---

I totally agree with you. I would never second guess buying a het from any of those mentioned, and many others.

A simple reference check would have solved all of the problems that people had with TSE ... there was a fancy website, but nothing behind it ... no one had ever seen the guys animals, been to his facility, or met him in person ... All of the big boys in the biz new the real deal, but no one asked ... People are too quick to jump on those too good to be true deals ... sometimes it goes very badly.

It's easy to spend a few bucks on a website and "put up a front" ... much harder to stand up to a little digging.

Invest in people that are investing in the market and in their own businesses ... they are the ones that will be around when it's time to prove your animals out ... It's easy to walk away and screw people after a couple years when all you've put in is a few grand and some posts on a website ... but the guys/gals that are out there making personal connections, reinvesting every spare penny into their business, and dedicating their blood, sweat, and tears to producing quality animals will have to be dragged away kicking and screaming.

Shop the breeder more than the snake.

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nathanledet

I totally agree with you. I would never second guess buying a het from any of those mentioned, and many others.

---

It is more for first time het buyers. And newbie breeders to establish a level of comfort and trust with the customer. I plan on providing het guarantees for any of mine.

When it comes to buying hets...I'll only ever buy from a breeder that I personally know...or is personally known by a breeder I know and trust. (Such as I'd trust Ralph, even though I don't know him personally...because I trust Adam and Adam trusts him)


I know, I know...more coffee, Judy....more coffee....

In everything you buy in life, though...there are risks involved. Small risks for small things...large risks for big things. TSE had an excellent reputation at some point along the way...but proved that a stellar reputation is not a guarantee of anything.

Paperwork is not a guarantee of anything. BUT...if I have a paper with a picture of my snake that says he is 100% het and it is signed by the breeder...then at least I have that as proof in a court of law that the breeder claimed he was something he was not. (If he turned out to be "normal.") Of course, that's only if you managed to get that far in the legal system to begin with. I'd be surprised if anyone with TSE papers actually gets to ever present them in court.

All we can do is mitigate our risks. One way is with paperwork clearly identifying the snake and the claims of the breeder/seller. But by far, the best way to decrease the amount of risk involved is to KNOW who you're dealing with on a personal level...or at least know someone who does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

A simple reference check would have solved all of the problems that people had with TSE ... there was a fancy website, but nothing behind it ... no one had ever seen the guys animals, been to his facility, or met him in person ... All of the big boys in the biz new the real deal, but no one asked ... People are too quick to jump on those too good to be true deals ... sometimes it goes very badly.

It's easy to spend a few bucks on a website and "put up a front" ... much harder to stand up to a little digging.

Invest in people that are investing in the market and in their own businesses ... they are the ones that will be around when it's time to prove your animals out ... It's easy to walk away and screw people after a couple years when all you've put in is a few grand and some posts on a website ... but the guys/gals that are out there making personal connections, reinvesting every spare penny into their business, and dedicating their blood, sweat, and tears to producing quality animals will have to be dragged away kicking and screaming.

Shop the breeder more than the snake.

-adam

---

Fantastic post!!

Here is your awnser, buy from Adam, and don't worrie, its all good!:rockon: Adam

EDIT: THat rep was from me Adam..lol.

Adam...you said that WAAYYYY better than I did! If I'd read your post before I started typing mine (it wasn't there yet) I wouldn't have even bothered with mine! :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Shop the breeder more than the snake.

---

These are wise words. You are a real asset to this community Adam. Your knowledge and experience is truely a gift that is to be cherished :gj:

suppose a "reputable" breeder sold you a pair of het pieds for example and it took you 3 years to grow them up breeding size and when the eggs hatched all the babies were normal.

i have never bred any bps yet but reading about geneitc i understand that this is possible.

all babies look normal they can either have no pied gene or be hets for pied. the only way to tell would be to breed those ones out back to the parents or other animals with the pied gene. so there is another 2-3 years to try to prove them out.

if no pied is visible after all these years then how would you get proper compensation from the original breeder at this time? would he give you a pied or would he give you your money back or would he give you a ratio of pieds to eggs that you hatched?

hope you understand what im trying to say. sorry for the long post. what do you guys think?

The paperwork is only worth as much as the reputation. I think thats it in a nutshell (in my humble opinion). :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

The paperwork is only worth as much as the reputation. I think thats it in a nutshell (in my humble opinion). :)

---

Ya, I agree totally.... words to live by :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

The paperwork is only worth as much as the reputation. I think thats it in a nutshell (in my humble opinion). :)

---

I agree. I could make up an official looking document with pictures, signatures and all the frilly things to say that my wife is 100% het for pied. Its the comfort level that you achieve when you trust the breeder that you are purchasing from that is worth more than the actual paper.

i guess there is nothing you can do...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monk90222

I agree. I could make up an official looking document with pictures, signatures and all the frilly things to say that my wife is 100% het for pied. Its the comfort level that you achieve when you trust the breeder that you are purchasing from that is worth more than the actual paper.

---

Do you plan on breeding her back to the offspring to prove genetics? GROSS!

As much as we can and should focus on the breeder, his/her reputation, paperwork provided, etc. I think we need to turn that focus on to ourselves too. How many times do we jump on a "great deal" - fall for a good line of sales b.s. - like Adam said, a fancy website but no substance behind it - get show fever and HAVE to buy that snake without really knowing the reputation of the person behind that table. I've done it, everyone's done it. The onus still comes down folks on us and being a smart, informed, educated purchaser. You can play the blame game but in the end if you get ripped off most times it will be because you cut corners or went for that "deal of the century" from somebody you don't know. Our own greed or need to get a certain morph as fast as possible can bite us in the ass and it often does. I read the BOI all the time, I can't believe how many people purchase snakes and have not ONE clue how to get hold of the supposed "breeder" but they willingly paypalled money to this person *sigh*

Slow down, get to know the breeders, get to know yourself and what your own personal goals for your collection are, build relationships, take the time and do your homework first, don't depend solely on some piece of paper that can be printed off any computer by a 5 year old, spend the time figuring out who to trust and who to run fast in the other direction from...that's my best advice to avoid getting ripped off in the area of het genetics.