Pics of My New Spotted Pythons

OK I posted before about the pair of spots I got at the NARBC for 60 each marked as 06s that I figured now must have been 05s. I was asked for pics but always think pics deserve their own thread so here are my new kids.

First the female who shed a few days before I bought her, check the sheen on this gal.

http://www.jackspirko.com/images/sna...d_python_2.JPG



http://www.jackspirko.com/images/sna...d_python_1.JPG

The next shot is the male which is bigger of the two. He is also getting close to shed time and hence a lot duller in appearence.

http://www.jackspirko.com/images/sna...d_python_1.JPG

Here is another of the male. I am trying to show here his length a bit better. No one was here to help with pics. I should also note as always I am a big guy my ring size is 13.5 so that might help to give better scale on these little guys.

http://www.jackspirko.com/images/sna...d_python_2.JPG

Ok so does this help, any of you with adults who grew them from babies do these look like 06 animals to you. I would actually feel better if they did because checking pricing a pair of two year olds cost a LOT more then a pair of 06 do. I guess I can't feel to bad on this if they are older though, I just bought them for the stated price.

It is just I have never handled adult spotteds and you can read "up to a meter" but that does not really explain the size of a snake well. For instance a 6 foot boa is a lot bigger then a 8 foot taiwan rat, know what I mean.

How close are these to true adult size? Those of you that breed them how close are they to being breedable? What size/weight do you start breeding yours at.

Not knowing is a new feeling for me! Most of the common animals I have a ton of experience with but spots, childrens, etc are new to me. I figure they are easy to keep and all so no worries but this is kind of like turing on a movie and not knowing how long it has been on or how much time is left, :rolleye2:

Those are hot looking snakes Jack. With no seeing the pics I have even a harder time accepting they are 06's but I'm not an expert. Like I said I have a children's that is just over a year old and is still WAY smaller than your pair and he eats every week without a miss. I don't know maybe its possible with some feeding methods to get them that big?? There was somone here who was really into australian pythons hopefully they will offer some insight. I still say you got a great deal compared to what I see around here and those you got are larger than I see quite often.

Hm...I have an 06 Spotted female, and those guys look like they'd dwarf her...According to the people that sold her to me, she was hatched in May 06..Here's what she looks like now:



https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../7/1/cora1.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../7/1/cora2.jpg

She gets a fuzzy every week and takes it down no problem...My ring size is about 9 1/2- 10 (Yeah..my friends make fun of my "Manly hands"..::sigh::..lol)

Hope this helps...

Didn't see as well in the other pics but your Children's has some awesome black coloration going on Lisa!

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Originally Posted by SilentTigress

Hm...I have an 06 Spotted female, and those guys look like they'd dwarf her...According to the people that sold her to me, she was hatched in May 06..

Hope this helps...

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Indeed it does and I have to say that about cinches my feeling that these are a pair of two year olds. So I am guessing one season and they should be breedable?

One thing about them is they are snappy little dudes! Mostly calm when I take them out and handle them but when you put them back in the viv and close the door they get a bit mental. All s-coiled and strike at the glass.

The smaller one did have a go at my forearm twice during a handling but she was bluffing. She struck open mouthed and touched the arm but never actually bit.

Hope they calm down with some more handling. No real problem to handle them for me but I would like to use them with my kids shows at some point. Seems like it would be fun to show kids a spotted, a bigger ball and my 8 foot Jungle Carpet and ask them which one is a python or oldest or something to that effect. Something to make them think about prejudgement.

I still remember when I was a kid and we toured the hospital for a school trip. They brought in two people all dressed up for surgery. One guy and one gal. They asked us all which was the nurse and which the doctor, of course we all said the guy was the doctor. Of course it was the other way around.

That had to be about 1979 and I still remember it! So I know the concept works. But I can't be handing kids I am trying to take fear away from a snappy little python.

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Originally Posted by jjspirko

Indeed it does and I have to say that about cinches my feeling that these are a pair of two year olds. So I am guessing one season and they should be breedable?

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At two years of age my female was 37" long and had a girth of about 1". My male was 32" and maybe 5/8".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jjspirko

One thing about them is they are snappy little dudes! Mostly calm when I take them out and handle them but when you put them back in the viv and close the door they get a bit mental. All s-coiled and strike at the glass.

The smaller one did have a go at my forearm twice during a handling but she was bluffing. She struck open mouthed and touched the arm but never actually bit.

Hope they calm down with some more handling. No real problem to handle them for me but I would like to use them with my kids shows at some point.
I.

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Our female is about the friendliest snake I've ever encountered. She will literally climb into your hand at any opportunity and will refuse to go back into the cage.

One thing about the spotteds, the childreni and the anthills that I've noticed is that the males definately go through some adolescent cockiness. I initially thought the male was snappy and ill-tempered. After some time with him, he's mellowed out a bit, but that may be more a case of us just learning what he'll put up with. He definately has to be approached and handled differently than his mate.

As to your OP - they are fairly easy to keep. they are fairly active (mainly in the evenings and at night) and for the most part - are docile. I have seen them push 5' before but that's on the longish side.

They should be ready to breed when the female is in her second year.

We got Felix the Stimson's, just a year ago and when we bought him, he was a hatchling. They look to be the same size as Felix.

It's AMAZING crazy :rolleye2: how fast they grow even when you DON'T power-feed them!!


RuLyn:sunny:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

As to your OP - they are fairly easy to keep. they are fairly active (mainly in the evenings and at night) and for the most part - are docile. I have seen them push 5' before but that's on the longish side.

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Not sure what you mean by "OP" (other problem?):D

Anyway are you saying spotteds can get up to five feet? Not a problem if it is the case but I keep reading stuff saying adults are 30 inches to 1 meter with anything over a meter being very big.

This is what has me questioning the age of them. They are in one of the brand new cool Visionarium cages right now. The length is 30 inches the smaller one seems to be at least long enough to reach across the entire cage, the bigger is certainly over that length.

I am glad to hear you have seen a one year old at similar lengths, I was starting to feel guilty.

On size I am fine no matter how big they get, just wondering what is a true average in length and weight. Because the bigger one is already about as big as most write ups claim she is going to be.

Again it is a different feeling to not really know an animal I am keeping. Makes me think a bit about how important it is for us to help out new folks that come to forums.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jjspirko

Not sure what you mean by "OP" (other problem?):D

Anyway are you saying spotteds can get up to five feet? Not a problem if it is the case but I keep reading stuff saying adults are 30 inches to 1 meter with anything over a meter being very big.

This is what has me questioning the age of them. They are in one of the brand new cool Visionarium cages right now. The length is 30 inches the smaller one seems to be at least long enough to reach across the entire cage, the bigger is certainly over that length.

I am glad to hear you have seen a one year old at similar lengths, I was starting to feel guilty.

On size I am fine no matter how big they get, just wondering what is a true average in length and weight. Because the bigger one is already about as big as most write ups claim she is going to be.

Again it is a different feeling to not really know an animal I am keeping. Makes me think a bit about how important it is for us to help out new folks that come to forums.

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Jack -

Here is a link to the spotted python size aggregate. The table is at the bottom of the page (table 5). It basically tracks the monthly size of 6 maculosa.

http://www.smuggled.com/BriBar10.htm


OP = original post :oops:

Thanks that article helps a lot. Converting milimeters to inches I see at 12 months those snakes were between 30-40 inches. Puts my pair right on target for that age range.

However since I bought them in Febuary odds are if they are 06s they were not born a full 12 months ago. Say they were hatched in April of 06 they would be 10 months of age. Chart on the spots in your article shows 29-35 inches. So again my pair is dead on target!

Growth rate is highly tied to feeding in young snakes. I have found most older snakes for sale from breeders to be smaller then normal because breeders tend to feed stock animals only as much as is necessary.

Regaurdless of what I have I am happy with them and plan to try to produce a clutch next year.

Some observations regarding handling Antaresia Sp.:

(1) Our maculosa and perthensis have all been nocturnal. The cage lights are set on timers - on at 0800 hours, off at 1900 hours. During the photo period, they spend time in their hides, usually on the cooler gradient of the cage.

(2) Attempting to handle either the spotteds or the anthill during this time will result in snappish behavior as it entails disturbing them in their hides.

(3) Within 30 minutes of lights out, they will begin poking their heads out. If this is to be a handling session, I will usually wait another 15 or so minutes until they are fully out and about. Since I adopted this regimen,we have not had any snaps.

(4) On feed nights, each python has their own feed bin. Upon "waking up" they are placed in their individual bins, fed and allowed to rest for about and hour. Then back in the cages.

That's what has worked for us. These little ones are a bit more nervous and defensive compared to their larger cousins.

Again, we have noticed a reluctance from the female to go back into the cage after a handling session - if I didn't know better I could swear she liked being held.

My children's has never shown negative affect resulting from handling during daylight hours...or any time for that matter. Has never snapped or even bluffed once.

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

My children's has never shown negative affect resulting from handling during daylight hours...or any time for that matter. Has never snapped or even bluffed once.

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I didn't mean to imply that all of the antaresia did nor that there were any hard and fast rules with handling them.

Simply put - a couple of ours can be a bit crabby. By changing our handling routine the problem was resolved.

BTW Heath:

Just clicked on your site - nice Childreni!

I was at the East Bay Vivarium on Sunday and they had one about that size - a real sweetheart.

Thanks for the visit! ...ya I'm hoping as the little guy I have grows out he will stay mellow.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Simply put - a couple of ours can be a bit crabby. By changing our handling routine the problem was resolved.

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Great point and I have found it to be true with many different snakes of many species. I always am dumbfounded by people that pick up a snake that bites (but is to small to do harm) and just let it bite. The people that make no effort to determine what that animal needs to not bite.

The key is that snakes only bite for one of two reasons

1. To eat - Small snakes never try to eat people. EVER

2. For defense - anything even a snake only defends itself when it is afraid. Fear is the cause of all defensive bites.

So that means if a snake is biting you it is afraid of you, plain and simple. So for people that keep snakes when you get bit the animal is telling you that it needs something to be different to not fear you. Now with many snakes simple handling in time takes care of this but why not speed things along and put no more fear in the animal then is necessary.

For instance some of my young house snakes will strike and bite. They do all they can to get you good, honestly it is cute, they can't do a bit of damage when small.

However if I use a small hook to pick them up and place them in hand from under their bodies they almost never bite. They calm down faster and they get past that bitey phase faster.

Some of my other snakes are sweet in hand but just don't like to be reached for some won't bite but get that defensive posture so I use a hook to get them out. Some actually prefer a hand to a hook you can see that to they withdraw less when you pick them up by hand vs by hook. I try to learn each animal and give it what it tells me it needs most.

To me as keepers it is our responsibility to learn our animals and learn what stresses them even the ones that don't bite or can't do any damage. It is all part of the hobby and part of the responsibility.

By the way that is how you learn to "read" animals. I can often catch totally wild snakes with no restriant and no striking simply by reading them and being gentle. The goal is to make your hands or your hook no different to them then anything they would crawl across.

OK end of soap box time. That was just a great point and this is the one educational tid bit that has been a real struggle for me to get across to people on boths sides. Meaning both those who have no fear and don't take the animals stress into account and those with a true fear of being bitten. All you have to do is "listen" to the animal MOST will tell you what they need. Some are just psyco though!

Jack:

Excellent points..........

The Antaresia Sp. are very mild mannered snakes and are generally very amenable to handling. Unfortunately, I have seen more than one post where they are characterized as being nippy or sharp. I have yet to meet one that could not be calmed down by adapting the handling routine to the snake.

When I adopted our perthensis, I asked the original owner why he was giving up on the snake - especially since the anthills are so hard to come by.

The answer was that he thought the snake was mean. Everytime he stuck his hand into it's cage it struck at him.

While I was there I observed him handling his snakes by pulling up their hides and abruptly pulling them out of the cage. To a small python, there is no difference between a human yanking out his hidey-rock and a predator ripping apart his termite mound or burrow.

I would not get our dog out of his dog house by kicking it over and yanking the dog out by his back legs. I would call him to me. A snake won't come when called, but he can be approached in a manner that will not evoke a defensive response.

With our more tempermental animals, it is easier to wait until they are out of their hides and gently get them out with the hook or even a spare branch. Our anthill is a perfect example of this - he will not tolerate a hand in his cage. He will tolerate a branch and will climb right on it. Once out of his enclosure his demeanor changes and he can be picked up.

Skip,

Have you ever observed this behaviour.

My spots specificly the male will do fine being taken out of the viv and pretty good being handled. Like I said he did go at my forearm twice (only on one handling) but it was PURE bluff. I made no attempt to stop him he went open mouthed but did not close and it was slow and deliberate. (well slow in snake strike terms)

Other then that he and the female handle fine. But when I put them back in then they get defensive. Even with them seeming to stop striking the glass they now still clearly stress.

Most would not notice but I do, what I notice is their breating rate. They breethe fast (again for a snake) and take the s posture. They stopped striking but I think only because hitting hard glass got old. Even a snakes tiny brain figures that out.

I have a young Dumerils Boa that did this too but he got over it. I am not sure how to deal with this with my spots?

When I can I get them to go directly into their hide from my hand, when they do all is well but many times they (again mostly the male) objects to this. I have to sit him in the viv and then the defense comes up. I guess he will get over it but like I said I try to "listen" to my animals.

Great point too by the way about what it is like ot have your hide ripped open and be grabbed. The analogy to the dog and kicking his house down is great too by the way. I may borrow it from time to time if you don't mind, great visual!

Jack:

I had that happen several times (only with the male) when he was about 14 to 18 months old.

I've jokingly referred to it as his adolesence. I still don't know what to make of that behavior...........

As to the glass striking - I have not experienced that with our antaresia sp.- they pretty much pull a siesta from morning until evening.

I'm wondering how much handling your pair had prior to your acquiring them.
I can only guess that some slightly older animals who are taken to shows or who are in stores may begin to associate an approach to their enclosure as a potential prelude to any past manhandlings they might have received.

I would guess it may be that they had very little handling other then going to shows. I got them from Glades Herp. They were probally simply fed and left alone.

I guess if handled little other then the stress of going to herp shows I would be cranky too,

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Originally Posted by jjspirko

I would guess it may be that they had very little handling other then going to shows. I got them from Glades Herp. They were probally simply fed and left alone.

I guess if handled little other then the stress of going to herp shows I would be cranky too,

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They'll come around - you've only had them a couple of weeks - right?

The fact that they are tolerating handling is a great sign. They are also eating - right? If they were really freaked out, you'd be having problems on both those fronts.

The other little quirks will work themselves out as they get more and more settled in.

Oh yea they eat, like a mini Retic! I sware they crush a mouse to mush just to make it easier to swallow. The only snake I have seen that crushes an already dead mouse like this are some of my house snakes.

They eat right off the tongs too. No I am not worried I just find it strange how they are all cool until I return them to their viv.

OH and here is some more info on them

http://www.snakemuseum.com/tigerrat.htm

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Originally Posted by jjspirko

Oh yea they eat, like a mini Retic! I sware they crush a mouse to mush just to make it easier to swallow. The only snake I have seen that crushes an already dead mouse like this are some of my house snakes.

They eat right off the tongs too. No I am not worried I just find it strange how they are all cool until I return them to their viv.

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Ditto on the eating. I feed F/T and they absolutely nail them. Extremely active prey response.

Jack, I have the same issue returning them to the cage. I wonder if another maculosa/childreni/perthensis owner can chime in with his/her experiences.

Just a quick update,

Both of them are really settled in now, I have handled them both briefly mostly in the evenings as Skip suggested. They have gotten a lot more active too crawling around even during the day and seeming to look out at me while I work when they are hungry almost as if to say, "hey bud make with the mice".

They are turning into a great pair and I saw the female flag the other night. The male is still eating like a champ so I don't know if they are mating or not yet but one can hope.

How cool would that be? Pick up a pair of spots for barely over a c-note and have them breeding a month later?

One can hope, anyone want to get on a waiting list for babies? Just don't hold your breath or anything, :rolleye2:

Im glad they have settled in well for you. And good luck with the mating! They are beautiful! Think Im going to go look them up Id like to learn a little something about them :)