Free Mouse NJ

Severance wants nothing to do with it! If I keep it here I will get attached (I'm a sap) If anyone is near tehy can have it. Hudson County NJ

lol.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rocky

lol.....

---

DITO...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by juddb

DITO...

---

LMAO SHUT UP!!! I'm stuck with this freakin mouse ; /

Why dont you let him free. But away from your house you know .....

I'm sure he would die... and it wouldn't be quick? I can't do that. I have someone picking him up tomorrow believe it or not.. to keep as a pet! *shrug* I don't understand why this guy doesn't go buy one for 1.99 in the store. He is going to spend more gas money to get here and take a free mouse for a pet...
Some people are weird... o.O
I was thinking maybe someone really close or next town would want it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by juddb

Why dont you let him free. But away from your house you know .....

---

There's enough of a wild rodent population. Turning unwanted feeder rodents loose isn't a good or responsible option. Glad someone is coming to pick it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SeraphimScum

I'm sure he would die... and it wouldn't be quick? I can't do that. I have someone picking him up tomorrow believe it or not.. to keep as a pet! *shrug* I don't understand why this guy doesn't go buy one for 1.99 in the store. He is going to spend more gas money to get here and take a free mouse for a pet...
Some people are weird... o.O
I was thinking maybe someone really close or next town would want it.

---

You sure thats all he wants to pick up? Becareful!!! Sounds Weird to me...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JASBALLS

You sure thats all he wants to pick up? Becareful!!! Sounds Weird to me...

---

What elses would he do? Lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stangs13

What elses would he do? Lol.

---

Ummm....he knows it was a feeder so he knows you have a snake. Do you know this guy? I just recently read a story on line where some guy was beat up pretty bad by a guy who came to "look" at a snake and he took his snake!

It's just a mouse - Flush it :rockon:

Why not cull it and freeze it. Use it as a f/t later on. Opps, posted a bit late, hope your mouse picker upper person took it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BP's Rock

It's just a mouse - Flush it :rockon:

---

This isn't even funny if its a joke. Cruelty to animals is nothing to laugh at.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

This isn't even funny if its a joke. Cruelty to animals is nothing to laugh at.

---

It was not meant as a joke - He was going to feed it "live" to his animal, is that not cruel ? I feed live...


SeraphimScum - Send me a paypal request and I'll send ya $20 bucks to the save this mouse foundation, for food and shelter for the mouse - that ought to get the mouse started up as a pet...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BP's Rock

It was not meant as a joke - He was going to feed it "live" to his animal, is that not cruel ? I feed live...


SeraphimScum - Send me a paypal request and I'll send ya $20 bucks to the save this mouse foundation, for food and shelter for the mouse - that ought to get the mouse started up as a pet...

---

Flushing a live animal down a toilet is cruel. Yes. The fact that I need to tell you that is a bit disturbing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

The fact that I need to tell you that is a bit disturbing.

---

Perhaps "your facts", that you need to tell to me, which may be disturbing to "You", May not be my feelings on the subject at hand - It's a feeder rodent to someone's snake, not a pet - If you feed your snakes rodents, than don't become attahed to your rodents, as they are "rodents", and not pets for the snake feeders.

If there is one thing out of this thread that we may come to an agreement on, it's that we disagree on the subject at hand, and we can take that to PM's, rather than start :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: on the boards...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BP's Rock

Perhaps "your facts", that you need to tell to me, which may be disturbing to "You", May not be my feelings on the subject at hand - It's a feeder rodent to someone's snake, not a pet - If you feed your snakes rodents, than don't become attahed to your rodents, as they are "rodents", and not pets for the snake feeders.

If there is one thing out of this thread that we may come to an agreement on, it's that we disagree on the subject at hand, and we can take that to PM's, rather than start :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: on the boards...

---

Fact: Drowning any animal is inhumane.

Feeding a rat or mouse to a snake is part of nature and a necessary evil in this hobby. Just because its a feeder doesn't mean it should be treated with less respect. I think this belongs out in the open, not in PMs. It is what a forum is for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

I think this belongs out in the open, not in PMs. It is what a forum is for.

---

I have no problem with that...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

Feeding a rat or mouse to a snake is part of nature and a necessary evil in this hobby.

---

Quote from a fantastic movie Finding Nemo " Fish gotta swim, birds gotta eat"

I don't think it is "evil" ; while it is a necessary part of this hobby it is far from evil unless that peson doing the feeding gets some form of pleasure from watching the feeder get killed. While i don't agree with flushing it down the toilet, since drowning is one of my personal biggest fears, lack of O2 from constriction or from being underwater isn't too much different i would have to think technically, i may be wrong. It is also similar to using CO2 to uthenize an animal. I still don't agree with it but just thought i would throw those possibilities out there.

~mike

Ummmmm ... Have U ever thought of the explanation to the plumber when he comes to unplug your said unit of waste removal?????:colbert:


If SS is in high need to get rid of the mouse, than euthanize it and either freeze it for the snake later, or throw it in the garbage. If she's rural, she could bury it i(DEEP) in her garden/ flowerbeds somewhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

Quote from a fantastic movie Finding Nemo " Fish gotta swim, birds gotta eat"

toilet, since drowning is one of my personal biggest fears, lack of O2 from constriction or from being underwater isn't too much different i would have to think technically, i may be wrong. It is also similar to using CO2 to uthenize an animal. I still don't agree with it but just thought i would throw those possibilities out there.

---

Actually, it's quite a bit different. Constriction is much faster and although it's probably traumatic, it's over relatively quick. The animals usually die from elevated blood pressure/heart failure in addition to the lack of oxygen. Using CO2 (if done correctly) will anesthetize the animal so that they essentially fall asleep before dying.

Drowning on the other hand is a very cruel way to kill any mammal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xdeus

Actually, it's quite a bit different. Constriction is much faster and although it's probably traumatic, it's over relatively quick. The animals usually die from elevated blood pressure/heart failure in addition to the lack of oxygen. Using CO2 (if done correctly) will anesthetize the animal so that they essentially fall asleep before dying.

Drowning on the other hand is a very cruel way to kill any mammal.

---

Well (im still not saying its right) but using CO2 to anesthetize the animal causes a build up of CO2 in the bloodstream the same as lack of O2 when drowning. I still don't advocate flushing any animal. I also don't believe in letting the little guys free in the wild even if it is summer. releasing an animal which doesn't belong there into the wild can have detrimental affects on native environments. Just look at what has happened to FL or Australia.

~mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

Well (im still not saying its right) but using CO2 to anesthetize the animal causes a build up of CO2 in the bloodstream the same as lack of O2 when drowning. I still don't advocate flushing any animal. I also don't believe in letting the little guys free in the wild even if it is summer. releasing an animal which doesn't belong there into the wild can have detrimental affects on native environments. Just look at what has happened to FL or Australia.

~mike

---

However, by the time it builds up enough to cause death, the anesthetizing of the animal has already taken place. It is a painless death and there is a reason it is one of only two recognized methods of humane euthanization. Big, big difference between humane euthanization and drowning an animal in the toilet.

Drowning?! That is just cruel. Drowning is a relatively slow, suffering-filled death. After almost having drowned myself years ago, I think it'd be a horrible way to put something down.
I put my rats down by quickly whacking them on a hard floor. Instant death, no suffering or any idea that something bad was about to happen. But I almost always feed live and let nature take its course anyway.
I sincerely hope that if any newbies are reading this thread, they realize that drowning is Not the way to euthanize a mammal.. sheesh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by juddb

Why dont you let him free. But away from your house you know .....

---

What...? Let free a domestic, pampered mouse into the natural world? This has to be the most ludicrous thing ever.. that would be a slow torture as the mouse either etarved from not knowing how to hunt for feed in the wild, or a quick death (this would be the best case for the mouse) from a hawk or wild snake getting it.. not to even go into detail about natural climate/weather as opposed to that of being in a tank..

Has the mouse been picked up?

Dang i was just joking i know shes not gonna let it free....... Sorry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ginevive

Let free a domestic, pampered mouse into the natural world? .

---

Not to mention that the mouse is probably white...not good for camoflage......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BP's Rock

It's just a mouse - Flush it :rockon:

---

The simple fact that anyone has to tell you that flushing a living creature down a toilet is a wasteful, inhumane act is for me quite disturbing, that you would post this as a viable option, even more so.

The concept of "just" a feeder says a lot to me. This "just" creature is the sole and only food source for a snake. Showing inhumane or careless treatment of the rodents, shows me a person that may not value the source of life for their snake. I'm certainly not a PETA supporter, nor do I spoil and pamper every rodent I own...many of them are slated as feeders and the others have roles as breeders. However, neither do I ever treat them in a manner that disrespects their vital role in life, both as prey and as living creatures themselves.

Equating tossing a living mouse down a toilet with the natural predator/prey dynamic of snake and rodent is a pointless comparison. One is natural, the other is simply an inhumane and lazy way to deal with an unneeded prey item. If you are going to feed live, you are bound to make plans for unwanted feeders...that's just a part of being a responsible snake keeper as far as I'm concerned.

This is just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
First off flushing a mouse down a toliet is plain just not right, period.

That being said I find it rather humorist how those that fed live ( Yes I am a live feeder ) can make that ok and humane in their minds. I understand the calling of it natural ie in the wild this is they way of the world. But putting a mouse in a box,tub,cage to where it has no way to escape or hide or run for it's life is not natural. When a snake coils around a mouse it does not die sudden or slowly go to sleep. It feels fear and that is seen as it struggles and makes sounds. The constriction slowly shuts down their heart and they die.
Sorry but in my eyes nothing humane about that. Tho, it is a fact of the hobby. If you want to keep snakes and feed live then that is a necessary evil of the hobby.
Picture this, would you rather have sudden head trauma and die suddenly or would you rather be put into a cage w/ a huge snake and be coiled around a have the life squeezed out of you ? Which form of death would be most humane?

My only complaint about blunt force trauma is the rat does not always get killed, though it may not be moving. I did that to a rat one time with my boa and came back half an hour later and the rat was up and moving around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

My only complaint about blunt force trauma is the rat does not always get killed, though it may not be moving. I did that to a rat one time with my boa and came back half an hour later and the rat was up and moving around.

---

Don't get me wromg I am not advocating slamming a rat against a wall or table. I feel the only humane way to kill a rat or mouse would be the CO2 method. I was just using that as an example to show that dropping a live mouse/rat in a cage with a hungry snake is not really a humane way to do it even tho some try to insist it is.But we all have to do what we need to do to get thru it in our heads.

Maybe I should re-word my post to say instead of blunt force trauma and being thrown in with a hungry snake to being slowly put to sleep or being fed to a hungry snake. That would be a better picture of the example I am trying to show.

Let's see if I can make my feeling a little more clear on this subject. It's not specifically inhumane because it's the way it's supposed to be. Rodents are eaten by snakes...whether that occurs in my backyard or my living room...it's how it's supposed to be. I don't see predator eating prey as inhumane because I think that is imposing my human feelings or moral standards on a non-human interaction. One that's occurred for eons before we came along and will do so eons after we're all dust. To call a snake eating it's prey "inhumane" assumes that either creature has feelings similar to mine, which most likely they do not - nor do they require them, they are just fine as they are.

For me, a snake eating a rodent doesn't require me to feel anything, my intrusion of human feeling into it is, to me, quite presumptious. My role, as I see it, is to be responsible to see that feedings are done safely and that the rodent lived well in my care prior to it being fed off. Being part of this captive dynamic does though, give me a moral imperative to plan both for the snake and for the rodent so that both live and die in ways that are not intentionally cruel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BP's Rock

It's just a mouse - Flush it :rockon:

---

wow...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

Let's see if I can make my feeling a little more clear on this subject. It's not specifically inhumane because it's the way it's supposed to be. Rodents are eaten by snakes...whether that occurs in my backyard or my living room...it's how it's supposed to be. I don't see predator eating prey as inhumane because I think that is imposing my human feelings or moral standards on a non-human interaction. One that's occurred for eons before we came along and will do so eons after we're all dust. To call a snake eating it's prey "inhumane" assumes that either creature has feelings similar to mine, which most likely they do not - nor do they require them, they are just fine as they are.

For me, a snake eating a rodent doesn't require me to feel anything, my intrusion of human feeling into it is, to me, quite presumptious. My role, as I see it, is to be responsible to see that feedings are done safely and that the rodent lived well in my care prior to it being fed off. Being part of this captive dynamic does though, give me a moral imperative to plan both for the snake and for the rodent so that both live and die in ways that are not intentionally cruel.

---

Dam your good!!! I agree 100%:snake:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

wow...

---

Now that is pretty funny...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

wow...

---

:rockon:

Never said it was not natural. Never said it was humane. A snake eating a rodent is in no way inhumane, it is natural. But I don't feel those that fed live can think that feeding live is a humane/painless way for a rat to die. I would think drowning or being attacked and having the life squeezed out of it is equally as bad a way for the rodent to die.
Hope this makes what I am saying a little more clear. The only humane way to feed a rodent to a snake is to CO2 then feed. Not saying it is the natural way. That is if you care to even look at one way or the other being humane. I personally feed live. I try not to put any human feelings behind it as it is what it is. Do I find any joy in watching it? No, but I do what I need to do to maintain my snakes. Do I criticize others ( not saying you do ) for the ways they kill their rats in order to feed to their snakes? No, because I would feel like a hypocrite, but hey that's just me. At the end of the day we all have to do what we feel is right and what we can live with.

Like I said just my 2 cents. Not trying to make my way the right way or change any ones mind or beliefs. Just putting my thoughts and opinion out there like everyone else does.

Folks,

Lets try and keep personal attacks out of the forums. Warnings via pm-s have already been dispatched to those engaging in such behavior. I'm going to open this thread back up so that positive and constructive debate can continue.

If any of the flaming/name calling and personal attacks continue, I will have no choice but to lock it back down again.

Hmm I was offline for a bit. Sorry to hear some folks made this highly personal or "flamed" (lord I hate that internet expression!) what should be a reasonable discussion and that led to this thread being temporarily locked. Let's remember that part of any learning curve or group experience is not agreeing with each other but let's "not agree" in a civil manner. This kind of thread can give people things to think about when it comes to their snakes and the rodents they feed upon. Oh and thank you Emilio, that's kind of you to say. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

My only complaint about blunt force trauma is the rat does not always get killed, though it may not be moving. I did that to a rat one time with my boa and came back half an hour later and the rat was up and moving around.

---

I agree; I myself had trouble with it when starting out. I was just slamming them on the floor.. it has too much "give" and thus a flat rock or concrete floor needs to be used. 100% of the time when I do it, they die right away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ginevive

I agree; I myself had trouble with it when starting out. I was just slamming them on the floor.. it has too much "give" and thus a flat rock or concrete floor needs to be used. 100% of the time when I do it, they die right away.

---

Do you hold them while you do it or just put em in a bag and whack?

Bag and whack; have to get them neck-headfirst though. Some people never get the knack of it though; I won;t let my fiancee put them down because he can't get it right; there can be no hesitation or it is just worse for the rat.
I don't like killing things; I hurt along with any animal I see suffering. I hate to see hack-job hunters, for example, shooting a deer six times before it goes down.. I am a big fan of one-shot kills. I know too that it is a necessity though.. but honestly I don't find myself killing rats that often. I feed supervised live; only time I put down/freeze is when I have a large surplus, but this has been pretty rare now that I have more snakes..

Wow, all this over a mouse....LMAO! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sputnik

Wow, all this over a mouse....LMAO! :)

---

Hmm... mouse, human, whale. They're all advanced organisms, what makes one more significant than another? Remember, we used to be prey at one time, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xdeus

Hmm... mouse, human, whale. They're all advanced organisms, what makes one more significant than another? Remember, we used to be prey at one time, too.

---

Rock on!

I guess I won't be freezing any whales.... :rockon: