New BP owner

My 14 year old son is wanting a ball python very badly. His best friend already owns one, along with a Burmese Python. I'm scared of snakes, and even more afraid of their food (mice!). But he's completed all the things I told him he needed to do before I'd let him have one, so now I'm stuck. What advice can you give me? The best friend's mom says we can bring the snake over on feeding day to help with my vegetarian ways....but what else do I need to know? What size tank, and anything else would be much appreciated. Thanks so much!!
Debby

I don't think the feeding plan would work; moving the snake around like that may stress him out, causing him to refuse food.
For cage requirements, check out the caresheets on this site, they should answer any questions they have for that.

Well if you haven't read this care sheet I think you should have a go at it

http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=59

But about bringing the snake over to your friends house every week for feeding that could be stressful on the snake and not to mention a big hassle for you and your friend every week to coordinate.

What about just letting your son feed the snake. He is 14 he could easily handle feeding the snake a F/T mouse or rat, or even a live one if thats the route you go.

So do the mice scream while being eaten? That's my main problem with having him feed them here. I was told that we need to feed it in a separate tank anyway, so would it be the actual transport of the tank that would bother the snake?

Hi,


I feed all of mine defrosted food so I really can't give you any information on live feeding.

Its worth asking when your buying your snake what it's eating and see if they have any that are eating defrosted as it's a lot easier to have a sealed tub of frozen food in the freezer than having to go pick up live food every week. But I certainly wouldnt let it's diet be the deciding thing that stops your son getting the particular snake he wants - sometimes they can be converted from live to frozen/thawed.

The general concensus seems to be there is no need to feed in a seperate enclosure and, in fact, the stress of being moved can discourage the snake from eating. Ball pythons are secretive snakes on the whole and changes can throw them.

The care sheet covers pretty much all the information on husbandry but since all snakes can be individuals to a certain extent it depends a lot on your final choice of snake.

And , as an extra warning, if you do feed live it's important to watch to make sure the process goes smoothly. I'm sure someone who feeds live routinely will be along to answer any specific questions about it but everyone seems to agree the mouse/rat should never be left in the tank unattended.



dr del

You get used to the mice...and you rarely hear them scream (although I have once or twice) its just a quick little squeak.

I would read the caresheet mentioned above, and have the setup correct before making the purchase , also as mentioned above moving the snake all over the place for feeding is a bad idea. If you cant watch the feeding or whatever maybe you should think about getting him an iguana or box turtle or something.... Just my $.2

Judd

I've never fed my BP live--and he's only had one feeding with me so far (I'm pretty new at this myself), but if the sound of a mouse screaming is your only concern, then feeding frozen/thawed sounds like a really good option for you and your son.

When I bought my BP from the breeder (NERD), they got my BP feeding F/T before I brought him home!

Frozen/Thawed mice are humanely euthanized (usually in a Co2 chamber), then frozen in bags. You bring them home, thaw them thoroughly then warm them up just before feeding time. The mouse is already dead, so no "screaming" involved--and it's something that your 14-year old could easily do by himself. Another benefit to F/T, is if your BP decides not to eat on a given week, you don't end up with a "pet" mouse for a week (or more)!

Transporting him every week isn't a good option for a BP, and I don't think it's necescary to feet the snake outside of his tub/tank.

Just my :2cent:

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Originally Posted by juddb

I would read the caresheet mentioned above, and have the setup correct before making the purchase , also as mentioned above moving the snake all over the place for feeding is a bad idea. If you cant watch the feeding or whatever maybe you should think about getting him an iguana or box turtle or something.... Just my $.2

Judd

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I'd have to disagree about getting him an iguana instead. They are not very good "beginner" lizards--even though many people buy them as such. I had one when I was younger, and was in -no- way prepared to satisfy the dietary requirements, the environmental requirements, or the size and nasty attitude that he developed as an adult... Too many iguanas end up in shelters as adults because of unprepared people buying them as pets for their kids.

Better beginner lizards would be Bearded Dragons or Geckos--they stay much smaller than iguanas. They do have specific dietary requirements, but those are easy supplements.

:colbert: I also feel that you should take him back. I just rescued a BP from a 14 year old who couldn't take care of it. It was on its deathbed when I got it (he is now doing much better). This is why I am a firm believer that parents should NOT buy their children animals that they are not willing to take care of themselves. The animal is the one that suffers as a result of this "learning experience" or however the parent justifies it. Ball pythons can definatly be a challenge and should not be a "starter" animal for anyone, much less a 14 year old. My advise to you is to take the snake back to the store. Pick up a leopard gecko or a fat tailed gecko. They make great pets and are easily maintained on a diet of crickets (unless feeding live crickets disturbs you). Just make sure whatever animal you buy, you won't mind taking care of (because the burden will eventually fall on you).

Hi and Welcome!

First off, do your research! Or even better, have your son do HIS research! While caring for a BP is not rocket science, its not quite so easy as "Toss in a mouse once a week and your good to go" The care sheets on this site are extremely helpful.

If after reading up on all that is involved I would say go for it, but keep in mind a BP can live 30+ years... Thats a big commitment. Also they do grow, so while the ones you see in a pet store are really tiny, can you handle having a 4-6 foot snake in your home?

I recently rescued 2 four foot BP's and I have to admit the first handling had my heart rate up a bit, lol. They are very gentle snakes as long as you are giving them proper care, but they still have instincts. And they still may jsut bite you for no reason whatsoever.

As far as feeding goes, I feed live and occasionally a mouse sqeeks when its struck. but its just "EEEEP!" and then its pretty much over. However if feeding live you may have a situation where a mouse or rat is biting your snake and you may have to intervene. This can be a difficult thing to handle mentally. But in some situations you have to decide, do you want a live snake and a dead mouse, or a live mouse and a dead snake.

For your son I would recomend Frozen Thawed mice. Having to kill a mouse yourself is a bit much on anyone, let alone a young man.

If you do decide to get one, go and buy all the cage setup and supplies first, get the temps right and the humidity to stabalise. then a week later get your pet.

Happy Herping! :salute:

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Originally Posted by casperca

:colbert: I also feel that you should take him back. I just rescued a BP from a 14 year old who couldn't take care of it. It was on its deathbed when I got it (he is now doing much better). This is why I am a firm believer that parents should NOT buy their children animals that they are not willing to take care of themselves. The animal is the one that suffers as a result of this "learning experience" or however the parent justifies it. Ball pythons can definatly be a challenge and should not be a "starter" animal for anyone, much less a 14 year old. My advise to you is to take the snake back to the store. Pick up a leopard gecko or a fat tailed gecko. They make great pets and are easily maintained on a diet of crickets (unless feeding live crickets disturbs you). Just make sure whatever animal you buy, you won't mind taking care of (because the burden will eventually fall on you).

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:colbert: From what I've read she hasn't bought it yet. It would appear she is trying to learn all she can before getting the animal. So to be a little more newbie friendly how about you put your finger down and just help the lady become a new member of the family.

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Originally Posted by kplunk

:colbert: From what I've read she hasn't bought it yet. It would appear she is trying to learn all she can before getting the animal. So to be a little more newbie friendly how about you put your finger down and just help the lady become a new member of the family.

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i agree,,she is one of the smart ones, setting up the tank and equipment first and doing her research properly.i did how ever set up my tank the day i got my royal Carmen,and she adjusted well, the reason i did this is because,i baught the snake in a place thats 170 miles from where i live as it it is hard to get them around where i am.if it was closer then i would have set the tank up first.

Hello,

I'm a relative newbie myself, but I do have a few thoughts from the perspective of a mom. I think it's wonderful that you are taking your son's interests seriously and following through on agreements you've made. I also think it's wonderful that you are doing your research before obtaining a new pet. :rockon:

That being said, I do have to echo some of the concerns already mentioned. The one thing that I wanted to add has to do with my experiences as a teenager (so many years ago!) and pets. As has been mentioned, ball pythons live 20-30+ years. If your son gets a ball python now, and in four or five years takes off for college, guess who will be caring for that snake? In my case, it was horses and, sure enough, those horses were more than my parents bargained for and it was years and years before I would have been able to support them myself, so of course they were sold. This was, of course, heartbreaking for me, and a stressful major life change for the horses. You just never know what will happen to your beloved pet after it leaves your home.

Now, a snake is not as high maintenance as a horse (by far!! lol), but it is still a commitment.

If you still think you want to do this, I think you will have to find a way to enjoy the pet yourself, because it will one day be your pet, at least temporarily. You've already gotten good suggestions on diet--ours is on f/t (shorthand for frozen/thawed) mice. We made sure to buy from a breeder who was already feeding him f/t. Personally, I would *not* recommend buying one that is eating live and hoping he'll convert--because he might not. And then what will you do?

In my case, I have pet mice, and I have strong feelings about how much they should suffer. So we buy our f/t mice from a breeder who takes exceptional care of his mice (they all have wheels and toys and nest boxes and are fed a healthy diet) and euthanizes them humanely (CO2 chamber).

You do not have to watch the feeding, even if you're the one doing it. We drop the mouse in with tongs (he will occasionally strike right away, so you might see that much whether you want to or not), then we leave the room. We do this for his sake, as we'd like to watch, but the point is that you don't have to watch. You *do* need to check back after an hour or two to make sure he's eaten it. If not, you'll need to remove the mouse, check your husbandry (temps, humidity, etc., and ask questions on this board), and try again in another week (with a fresh thawed mouse, of course).

However, you *do* need to be comfortable handling the snake. Even if you don't take him/her out for regular handling, someone needs to clean the cage regularly and change the water daily. While obviously your son will be responsible for this, remember the possibility of his losing interest (even if you decide to sell the snake, the snake will need to be taken care of in the mean time) and/or going off to college and leaving you with a snake to care for.

It's great that you're gathering information here. These folks have been a huge help to me, and they'll get you up to speed. :)

Heather

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Originally Posted by AzureN1ght

I'd have to disagree about getting him an iguana instead. They are not very good "beginner" lizards--even though many people buy them as such. I had one when I was younger, and was in -no- way prepared to satisfy the dietary requirements, the environmental requirements, or the size and nasty attitude that he developed as an adult... Too many iguanas end up in shelters as adults because of unprepared people buying them as pets for their kids.

Better beginner lizards would be Bearded Dragons or Geckos--they stay much smaller than iguanas. They do have specific dietary requirements, but those are easy supplements.

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What i meant was if you dont want to see the animal eat mice, then maybe you should get a different animal ( vegetarian ). Iguanas are not hard to keep . Ball pythons can be just as difficult. It all depends on what you are willing to care for correctly....

Well seems like you are getting alot of good advice. Ball pythons do live a long time so i think you need to consider it could end up being your snake. I got my first snake beginning of last year also for my son he loves snakes and we went and looked at them. 2 weeks later we bought one. My wife was terrified of snakes at first now she really likes them. First time i held a snake at the pet store she ran out of the store. She is now happy to hold them and help care for them. She doesnt care for the feeding we feed live in the same cage. Mice definitely sqeak when they get struck and rats are real loud they sort of scream. Yes you have to watch or at the very least be near by to make sure they are awake and aware. I now have 3 snakes they all eat live. The other option would be most pet stores will pre kill for you then you just put the dead mouse/rat in the cage.

Also my son is totally uninterested in snakes now he has clearly become my snake. He will hold him once in awhile but thats it. He is only 9 though so i knew going in i would be caring for the snake.
Also if you get the right cage set up they are very easy to maintain and care for dont trust the pet store(if thats the route you go) on what to buy. They sold us about 100 dollars worth of junk that we used for about 5 days then went out and bought a whole new set up that actually worked.

Good Luck they really grow on you if you give them a chance...
:snake:

One more thing:

I forgot to address the issue of having told him he could have a snake and then the possibility of having second thoughts having read all this advice. :D

Here is what I personally would do. I believe in honoring my word (yes, even to my children). But I also believe there is a time to admit I've made a mistake and solicit their assistance in fixing the problem.

I would sit down with my son, and read this thread together with him. I would then repeat any additional concerns I had and ask him if he has any thoughts or concerns. I would ask him how he and I could resolve the situation together so that everyone is happy and so that our pets are well taken care of.

He may surprise you with his ingenuity and helpfulness on the matter. My children frequently come up with solutions to family problems that had not occurred to me or my husband, but that end up working quite well for all of us.

On the other hand, he may just get stubborn and you may have a more serious problem on your hand... at which point I can't really offer any advice, because the problem here is that the wellbeing of a living creature is at stake. So you will have to choose between risking the wellbeing of that creature, choosing to possibly take on that creature's care at some point in the future, or changing your mind about your agreement with your son. And only you can decide which path to take.

I'm sure you'll find a solution that works for everyone in your family. You obviously care a great deal both about the snake and about your son, and that bodes well for you.

Blessings,

Heather

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Originally Posted by dgibbs

My 14 year old son is wanting a ball python very badly. His best friend already owns one, along with a Burmese Python. I'm scared of snakes, and even more afraid of their food (mice!). But he's completed all the things I told him he needed to do before I'd let him have one, so now I'm stuck. What advice can you give me? The best friend's mom says we can bring the snake over on feeding day to help with my vegetarian ways....but what else do I need to know? What size tank, and anything else would be much appreciated. Thanks so much!!
Debby

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I was scared of snakes but after getting these I handle them more than the kids. They're really cool.

I had to start feeding live because that's all one will take, she refused food for months finally out of desperation I tried live & she hasn't refused yet. The worst you might hear I'd say would be a thud & a small squeak or two. If you're not in the room when it eats you more than likely won't hear anything. Most people feed frozen/thawed ... you won't hear anything (maybe a thud). If I were you I'd definitely not watch (I say this assuming there'd be someone else to watch & help, my kids can & sometimes do feed when I'm not there, they know what they're doing & handle it very well) ..... I do but that's me, it's doesn't bother me.

Good luck, they're a great pet.

My son and I both are addicted to Animal Planet and Discovery Channel. We both like to learn about all kinds of animals, especially carnivorous reptiles. I think one of the most fascinating things about keeping a snake as a pet is watching it feed. We feed live mice to Darth. From the initial strike to watching the snake's mouth expand to accomodate the meal, to watching the last little tip of the tail going down, we sit there glued to the tub. It never gets old and I take pictures or video of every meal. If you remember that the mouse's sole purpose in life (if you buy it in a pet store like Petland, etc.) is most likely to be food for an animal who would eat something similar in the wild, and you're not being sadistic by feeding your snake, you're just providing it with nourishment as any responsible pet owner would do with any animal in their care then you really shouldn't have a problem with feeding a snake a mouse. Not any more so than you would giving your dog a bowl of dog food.

Food items can be controversial, but it sounds to me like frozen is your best bet. The mice (or rats) are already dead, having been humanely euthanized. You just put one in a couple ziploc bags to ensure water won't leak through, then soak 'em for an hour or so in 90-95 degree water. Then you dangle in front of the snake by the rodent's tale, and voila--no muss, no fuss, no screams. Figure on feeding weekly. If you go the pet store route (and you don't sound like the type who will be ordering online in bulk and having 50 or so frozen rodents stashed next to the Popsicles), figure on paying about $2 for a mouse and a bit more for a small rat. I pay about $8 for a three-pack of small frozen rates. My snake occasionally won't take one right away, but I've found that if I just leave it in his cage, it's always gone by morning. Which leads to the second item: Every snake is different, but they're nocturnal, and most folks (at least on this site) tend to favor feeding at night. Ball pythons can be fussy, somewhat shy eaters, and they're also creatures of habit. I feed every Tuesday after Boston Legal, and I give him plenty of privacy.

You asked about enclosures. There's an excellent article on setting up a glass tank on this site. Read it, then read it again. In general, here's what you'll need:

Minimum 20-gallon tank for one snake (usually easily found at garage sales or thrift stores for $5 or so--it doesn't have to be watertight).

Screen top: About $15.

Undertank heating pad: $15-20 for one; you might need two in a cold climate.

Two identical hides: Free (if you get creative and make them yourself); between $8-10 apiece if you buy them on line.

Digital thermometer/hygrometer: $15 at Wal-Mart.

Thermostat: Critical. About $25 for a cheap one--and you might need two if you need two undertank heaters.

All told, it'll cost between $100 and $200 for the setup. If you live anywhere but Florida or Arizona or the Deep South, your utility bills in the winter will probably be at least $50 a month higher because you'll need a space heater to keep the temps right, even with the tank heaters.

The snake is the cheapest part of this whole deal. They're widely available for free or next to nothing, because a lot of people start out thinking it's cool, then change their mind when the true expense sets in and they realize that a reptile is a lot different than a dog or cat in terms of cuddle-ability. Finally, realize that this snake is going to be around a lot longer than your child has been alive. Properly cared for, it'll live 20 years or maybe even longer. I don't mean to dissuade you, but think carefully--very carefully--about everything this entails. The animal deserves no less. Good luck.