Newbie cage setup

Hey guys -- I'm new here and new to snakes or reptiles in general. I'm setting up a 20 gallon long tank for a ball python. I didn't want to pick up the snake until I have everything figured out and the temps dialed in.

Here are a couple pics of the setup. Does anyone see anything wrong or have any suggestions?

Heating: 2 under tank heat pads connected to 2 seperate thermostats, one for cold and one for hot. The hot side is set for about 90 degrees and the cold side is set for about 80 degrees.

Lighting: 2 8" light fixtures, day is 50W halogen zoomed - night is 75W zoomed blue night bulb. They are set on 12 hour schedules with a day/night power strip.

Temp: I've got 2 flukers digital thermo/hygrometers, one on each side. I'm also spot checking with a digital thermometer with a probe to check the ground temp.

I'm using that bed-a-beast stuff for the substrate on top of the repti-carpet. I've got 2 different hides, 2 water dishes and some branches/decorations.

Thanks

The camera phone pics aren't the best in the world.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...75173_3300.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...717_3300_1.jpg

If the temps and humidity is right, then the only problem i see would be the 2 different hides. You should have the same hides so that if the snake prefers one hide over the other, it wont stress itself by staying in a temp that is too hot for itself only because he likes the hide on the hot side better than the hide on the cool side. However, if the snake ends up using both hides roughly the same, then there isnt much of a problem. It really depends on the snake but its better to be safe then sorry. And welcome do the forum BTW. Let the addiction begin.

Welcome!

Congrats for setting the cage up BEFORE you get the snake.. most people are too impatient to do things the right way anymore. :)

A couple of things -

do your thermometers actually read 80 degrees and 90 degrees on the cool and warm sides respectively, or is that just what your t-stats are set to? Usually you have to set the t-stat a bit higher than the temp you want on the ground in the cage.

what is your humidity level? It should be 50-60%.. with those light fixtures, it might be difficult to keep the level up that high, especially with a screen lid. Snakes do not need special lighting.. you may consider removing the lighting fixtures provided you don't need them to keep your temperatures in the right range.

You really only need one water dish.. you'll want to disinfect it weekly, so it may make it easier on yourself if you get rid of the second one, but that's up to you.

While those log hides look nice, they're really not very good as hides. Ball pythons are very shy and secretive animals.. even more shy than most snakes. A good hide is going to be low, dark, and tight feeling for them. Those log hides are kind of like a person hiding by standing in the middle of a big room ;)

Sometimes you can find nice looking tight hides at the pet store.. there's some plastic ones that are molded like rock caves that do a pretty nice job, otherwise you can get a plastic plant saucer (or even the clay ones) at any old store that has houseplant stuff. Just cut a hole in the side or top so the snake can get under it, and you're set.

I hope that helps. :)

The thermostats don't have actual temp readings on them, but i'm using the digital probe to set it right.

Right now I'm reading about 83F on average above the cold side pad, 75 ambient 53% humidity. On the hot side it's about 93 average above the pad and 77.7 ambient with 43% humidity.

At first I had some problems heating it up, during the winter (not really so in Florida), but the house is about 68-72 degrees usually on the cool nights.

As far as the hide, I liked the log because it functions as a rough surface for shedding also. Do you think I should try them out or just go ahead and ditch it for something else?

Thanks

The only thing i can add to this is,ditch the repti-carpet stuff.It will hold more bacteria and then in turn will cause you and your snake unneeded problems(breathing the stuff in).Welcome to the group :)

yep- just make sure that the heating pads aren't under the water bowl or the hide. you don't want to heat up the water, and the heating pads can heat up the inside of the hide too much. the snake may not want to go into the hide. and as Shelby said, you really only need one hide and one water bowl. and caves a better than logs, because they provide more security for the bp. nice job otherwise! sounds like you'll be a good snake keeper!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Christina

yep- just make sure that the heating pads aren't under the water bowl or the hide. you don't want to heat up the water, and the heating pads can heat up the inside of the hide too much. the snake may not want to go into the hide. and as Shelby said, you really only need one hide and one water bowl. and caves a better than logs, because they provide more security for the bp. nice job otherwise! sounds like you'll be a good snake keeper!

---

I'm not being mean, but i completely 100% disagree with only needing one hide, you want your snake to feel safe at all times and if it wants to get cooled down and go to the cool side, it should have a hide to be in while cooling down, he may not want to get cooled if there is no hide. So i again CAOMPLETELY disagree with only needing one hide.

They don't need the log for a rough surface to shed on.. they can shed on smooth plastic.. mine do. :)

Joe, that's not repticarpet, it's bed-a-beast.. just looks like repticarpet. ;)

Two hides are best for ball pythons because they are so shy.

I'd try to get the ambient temps up.. temps below 80 degrees are potentially harmful to ball pythons. Since your humidity levels seem fine, perhaps up the wattage of your bulbs?

According to his description, he's using the moist husk ON TOP OF repti-carpet.


:sunny:

Ok I guess i'm still having problems with the ambient temp. I guess the heat in my house doesn't work all that well. This morning the left side ambient is 67 and the hot is 75. I looked a the MIN/MAX since I left the thermometers running and the min was 67 on cold and 72 on hot.

How can I kick it up a notch?

This is going to be easy during summer, but I guess it's better to get it ironed out now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sweety314

According to his description, he's using the moist husk ON TOP OF repti-carpet.


:sunny:

---

Yep! In my opinion that makes the situation worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sweety314

According to his description, he's using the moist husk ON TOP OF repti-carpet.


:sunny:

---

Whoops! I missed that somehow. I had a long day yesterday. :P

Snikt- Would it be feasible for you to get a space heater for the room the snake's cage is in? That's what I do.. my snake room(s) are 80 degrees year round.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelby

Whoops! I missed that somehow. I had a long day yesterday. :P

Snikt- Would it be feasible for you to get a space heater for the room the snake's cage is in? That's what I do.. my snake room(s) are 80 degrees year round.

---

I'm not sure, the cage is in my room and I don't know about keeping my room at 80 degrees. Never heard of someone using a space heater in Florida. How much electricity do those things use anyway?

I added a little bit more insulation on the top and tweaked the thermostats some more. I'll see how that works tonight. Right now i'm at 75 on cold and 81 on hot. It doesn't seem like the UTHs are having any problem keeping temperature.

What do you guys recommend for the substrate? The carpet + bark is what was recommended in the glass tank setup sticky.

You've got to get those temps up to 90-92 warm side 80-82 cool before it's fit for a ball python.

If you've got a thick layer of substrate like the bark, it can effectively insulate the heat right out of the tank. I would take out the repticarpet.. and try a fairly thin layer of the bark. If you don't mind how it looks, use newspaper instead. I use newspaper for all but my burrowing snakes.

If that doesn't work, try a higher wattage bulb (or a ceramic heat emitter (CHE), which does not emit any light) Remember not to have lights on all day.. that's why a CHE or a red bulb is useful for nighttime heat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelby

You've got to get those temps up to 90-92 warm side 80-82 cool before it's fit for a ball python.

If you've got a thick layer of substrate like the bark, it can effectively insulate the heat right out of the tank. I would take out the repticarpet.. and try a fairly thin layer of the bark. If you don't mind how it looks, use newspaper instead. I use newspaper for all but my burrowing snakes.

If that doesn't work, try a higher wattage bulb (or a ceramic heat emitter (CHE), which does not emit any light) Remember not to have lights on all day.. that's why a CHE or a red bulb is useful for nighttime heat.

---

Is that ambient temperatures you're talking about or above the heating pad?

I'll play with the setup I have for a little bit longer then i'll try to re-arrange the substrate or get different bulbs. I'd like to get it working within the cage, that space heater uses 600-1500W. I'm trying not to send the energy bill through the roof.

I'll probably pick up some of those cave style hides from the petstore also.

Ambient temps.. you don't want any part of the cage to be below 80 degrees.

I'm sure you can make it work without a space heater.. it's just easier for me since I've got so many snakes.

Ok, here is the update.

Removed the carpet and i'm just using the repti bark substrate, Added more insulation to the bottom. I also got some new hides which are the same.

Switched to 100W lights.

Not very cold tonight, but right now i'm at 82F on cold ambient, 86 on hot. 84 on the ground in the left cave and 89 on the ground in the hot cave.

Humidity is way too high right now (80%), but the substrate is still pretty wet.

Am I good?

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...03813_3300.jpg

Get the warm side on the ground up to around 92, and if you can, lower the cool side ground temp to around 82.. then you should be good.

you can try to cover three sides of the tank with this foam poster board stuff that they carry at any wal-mart. It may be enough insulation to bump the temp up a degree or two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snikt228

Removed the carpet and i'm just using the repti bark substrate, Added more insulation to the bottom. Humidity is way too high right now (80%), but the substrate is still pretty wet.

---

IMO if you thin the substrate a bit more and let it dry out further, your temps will come up that 1-2 degrees. Less substrate = greater heat transfer from UTHs. Plus the snake creates heat from breathing and metabolism which will raise the temperature inside it's hide. Personally I think you're good to go!

Yep, i'm picking up the snake tomorrow. It's not like the temps in Africa where they live are exactly 82, 92, etc.. It gets down to the low 70s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sadie

IMO if you thin the substrate a bit more and let it dry out further, your temps will come up that 1-2 degrees. Less substrate = greater heat transfer from UTHs. Plus the snake creates heat from breathing and metabolism which will raise the temperature inside it's hide. Personally I think you're good to go!

---

Actually since snakes are cold blooded, they can't raise the temperature with their bodies, though respiration can increase humidity somewhat inside a hide I suppose.

I just made a new addition to the tank:


http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...8/DSC00519.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...8/DSC00521.jpg



How long should I wait before I feed him? I picked up one live and one frozen small mouse from the store at the same time.

Right now he is crawling all over the tank checking it out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snikt228

I just made a new addition to the tank:


http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...8/DSC00519.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...8/DSC00521.jpg



How long should I wait before I feed him? I picked up one live and one frozen small mouse from the store at the same time.

Right now he is crawling all over the tank checking it out

---

Lol well he looks like a great snake, you might have waited to buy a live feeder tho until your ready to feed, lol.

When was he last fed? I feed my snakes once a week on Tuesdays. So find out when he last ate feed him a week from then. Are you going to feed him live or f/t? You really should pick one and stick with it, it can be really hard to get them to switch from one to the other. Well really hard to go from live feedings to frozen rather....

Good looking snake and good looking setup!

Wait a week for him to settle in (don't handle him) then offer food. If he doesn't take it, try again in a week (don't offer more than once a week)

Also, never handle a snake for a full 48 hours after they eat.. handling sooner can cause regurgitation.

Very pretty snake by the way. :)

The temps here in FL have been changing pretty drasticly the last few days and i'm not very happy with how the temps are. One day the outside temp is 80 and at night its 50.

The temps aren't low in the tank, but the gradient isn't what i'd like.

I'm going to step it up a notch, I just ordered a CHE to replace the day bulb and a herpstat II thermostat to replace the crappy 500R.

So when I get this stuff i'll a CHE and an UTH on the hot end, a UTH on the cool end, and the night lamp is in the middle of the screen.

I know the herpstat II has 2 outputs/probes, but can I put 2 different devices on the same output?

For example i'd like to have the hot side CHE and UTH on one output and the cool side UTH on the other output. Is this possible?

I think with all of this I should be able to keep the temps stable. (I would hope so)

Also, what would be the best place to put the probes? I'm assuming right inside or near the hide caves on each end?

How do you prevent the snake from moving the probes around?