longest friggin five minutes of my life...

this sucks. we are attempting to euthanize our rattie pups... as they are getting too big...

this page gave us the info and we set up our vinegar and baking soda chamber... opened the cooler after another 5 mintues and they are all looking at us like... "got any food?"

so... we do it again... we figure the tube was too thin the first time... so now... i'm waiting for five minutes to pass to see if i'm a failure at this.

i wish we could just get dry ice, but that's a no go here... so... we wait. and hope.

it feels yucky waiting for our critters to die.... esp at our own hand :(

:hug: I know it's gotta be tough...I don't know if I could do it.

well that sucked. again it didn't work... so we've done it again and are hoping. we'll wait 10 minutes this time before opening the cooler.

man i hate this part of herping :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AzureN1ght

:hug: I know it's gotta be tough...I don't know if I could do it.

---

well... at this point it's a matter of IF rather than IF - if you get my drift :confuzd:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

man i hate this part of herping :(

---

I hear you loud and clear :(

and i'm completely stupid!!!

i'm supposed to wait 10-30 minutes... not 1-3!!!!

oh man... i was sure it said 1-3 so i thought i'd wait 5.

dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, *slaps self with a dead fish*

geez you're cruel :mad:

Exactly the reason why when come the time of starting breeding my own rodents (very soon), I plan on using a CO2 chamber like this http://www.thereddragonsden.com/co2.htm

A little investment to start with but not as messy and my best option since I can't seems to find any Dry Ice around.

Yeah I know i could feed live to avoid the problem but I love the convinience of always have the proper size available and what matter the most it work for my BP too they are all F/T feeders.

i use a co2 chamber like that. it is quick and easy--not fun at all, but at least this way is super fast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

Exactly the reason why when come the time of starting breeding my own rodents (very soon), I plan on using a CO2 chamber like this http://www.thereddragonsden.com/co2.htm

---

That's what I have set up, only with a larger CO2 tank. It works well, but you still have to keep an eye on the time. Young ones seem to take longer to die, and a couple of times I thought I had waited long enough only to discover that one was still alive when I grasped it with the hemostats. :O Not a fun experience.

I tried the baking soda/vinegar on mice... I must have had a leak, because they got a little drunk, then recovered to be really grumpy. Hungover mice are not sweet critters.
Wolfy

I hate killing them too, but you gotta do what you gotta do. It is just a nice big THWAP on the back of the neck. Or a THWAP on the edge of a table. Or you can breath into a ziplock with the rat in it ,maybe? IT will al be over soon 'leesha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stangs13

Or you can breath into a ziplock with the rat in it ,maybe?

---

Are you serious? OMG.. sounds like a great way to lose the tip of your nose perhaps? :rofl:

I have a Co2 chamber like the one on the link Deborah posted. It's so easy and quick. Young rats do take longer than older ones.. Pinkies can take a REALLY long time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelby

Are you serious? OMG.. sounds like a great way to lose the tip of your nose perhaps? :rofl:

I have a Co2 chamber like the one on the link Deborah posted. It's so easy and quick. Young rats do take longer than older ones.. Pinkies can take a REALLY long time.

---

Better idea!! Use a straw!:carrot: :P

I have a Co2 chamber but it has a big paintball gun Co2 bottle with a valve on it. Put rats in close top, open Co2 valve a little for like 5 to 10 secs and they go to sleep, close valve and leave them to sleep for like 5 minutes. Then they are ready to feed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nathanledet

geez you're cruel :mad:

---

no nate, i'm not cruel... i'm learning. it's my first time and trust me... i feel like crap. you didn't have to assist me to feel worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

no nate, i'm not cruel... i'm learning. it's my first time and trust me... i feel like crap. you didn't have to assist me to feel worse.

---

I don't think he was serious!

Don't feel bad, everyone makes mistakes. Just forget about it, and let the good times roll.:cool:

...I don't think Nate was serious either have you ever known him to put someone down here?

Putting down rodents doesn't bother me, sure they can be "cute" and all that but I know one thing...there will always be more!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

no nate, i'm not cruel... i'm learning. it's my first time and trust me... i feel like crap. you didn't have to assist me to feel worse.

---

now sweet heart you know i'm not serious. i know you're learning.

sorry nate... i feel so horrible. i don't know how i'll ever do this again. they just would not die. :(

so in the end... there was still one alive... asleep but alive... (we could see it breathing) so my hubby popped it into a ziploc bin and popped it in the freezer really fast so it wouldn't wake up... i just stood there a cried.

what a horrific experience. hopefully i'll be able to better 'time' my litters so none need to put down again.

Aleesha, It can be difficult when rats are both feeders and pets. :hug: :hug: :hug:

:licking::hug::petting::hug::licking::hug::petting: Ooooohhh HONEEEEE!!! That really suX! :oops:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

sorry nate... i feel so horrible. i don't know how i'll ever do this again. they just would not die. :(

so in the end... there was still one alive... asleep but alive... (we could see it breathing) so my hubby popped it into a ziploc bin and popped it in the freezer really fast so it wouldn't wake up... i just stood there a cried.

what a horrific experience. hopefully i'll be able to better 'time' my litters so none need to put down again.

---

see now i feel really bad. i was just tryin to get you to put a little pep in your step but i went over the line. I apologize. :hug:

I used the dry ice method a long time ago when i first got into ball pythons and 5 minute later i opened the cooler only to find them still breathing and i felt sooooo terrible. It's a little upsetting, and there are alternatives. You'll figure an easier way..i promise :)

I'm sorry it was like that Leeshie.. you really might want to make a proper Co2 chamber with a Co2 bottle and everything.. makes it much simpler and easier.

Remember that Co2 has natural anesthetic properties.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

sorry nate... i feel so horrible. i don't know how i'll ever do this again. they just would not die. :(

so in the end... there was still one alive... asleep but alive... (we could see it breathing) so my hubby popped it into a ziploc bin and popped it in the freezer really fast so it wouldn't wake up... i just stood there a cried.

what a horrific experience. hopefully i'll be able to better 'time' my litters so none need to put down again.

---

All the better to get yourself a nice cooler and CO2 wont have to worry about that, and we wont have to worrie about a crying aleesh! :hug:

Aleesha... first don't feel bad. You have no reason to. A 5 minute exposure to a Co2 concentration of that level would hardly make them anything but a tiny bit sleepy, if even that. A rodent that's experiencing too high a level of Co2 will most certainly let you know, the fact that they weren't freaking out when you popped the lid proves they likely didn't even notice.

I've used a system just like that as well, and trust me, it's not as bad as it seems. When I first built a system using compressed Co2 I used WAY too high of a concentration and the rats let me know RIGHT away.

Oh, hon... I'm so sorry that you had to go through that :hug: I probably would have cried, too...

Hopefully if you have to do it again, you can find a method that makes you more at ease about the process.

if we ever do it again... it's gotta be a more reliable way. it's hard enough to do this but to do it again and again and again... that was just horrible.

today isn't a good day... i'm still really weepy... i spent months getting ready to do this and i thought i was ready... but tonight... i don't feel very ready at all. i feel horrible.

when i'm feeling better i'll try to read everyone's suggestions. but right now... i am so sad. thanks for the responses everyone.

I feel like total crap after too.:(

I've never heard of this method...and not to make you feel worse but 30 minutes is way to long. As everyone has said CO2 works very quickly. The zip and freezer method right off the bat seems like it would work much faster than the mess you had to go through.

I'm trying to find the article for you Aleesha but I remember reading (it was a lab report on humane euthanization of rats) that CO2 on rats under 16 days of age tends to be not as effective or quick as on rats older than 16 days of age. It may be due to some change as they mature or simply that in nursing animals they tend to be nose breathers more than mouth breathers to facilitate the act of nursing. I'll keep trying to find it as it was very informative.

I'm sorry you went through this with the pups. I've been incredibly lucky to time my litters so we haven't had to put any down other than the very rare health issue popping up or a couple of adults for temperment problems.

If having to euthanize extras is upsetting hon you may want to look at options. We sell our extras off to another herper but you can always look at trading them to a pet store for store credit for dry supplies or donating them to a raptor rescue if one exists near you (they are always generally looking for clean rodents/baby chicks to feed their hungry feathered rescues).

I have always used dry ice. I just put the rats in a cooler and put a piece of dry ice in a smaller bucket inside the cooler. Then to make the dry ice release the CO2 faster I add a little water to the smaller bucket that is holding the dry ice. They are always dead when I check on them in 5 minutes. I never hear them struggling inside the cooler so I assume it is painless. If I had to do it more often I would probably make a CO2 chamber but I usually need to freeze off excess once every few months.

Aww hun, I am so sorry to hear about all the pain this has caused you :tears: You are brave to continue trying, and I hope it does get a whole lot easier for you.*hugs*

I'm so pleased... I was able to talk to the great guy who supplies the petstores I frequent with mice and ratties. So I told him about what happened yesterday (started crying right there in the middle of the store - I was so embarrassed) and I asked him how I can do it better and more effectively as I do not feel our experience yesterday was at all acceptable.

He told me to go get the (can't remember what it's called) tire filler upper thingy from a bicycle tire... and to get attach it to a piece of tubing... then to get (from the bicycle store) an emergency co2 chamber and the co2 units. he said you just attach the chamber (with a unit inside) to the 'tire filler upper thingy' and release the gas slowly.

he said they'll all be dead within minutes.

since i already have the cooler with all the holes etc... it should be easy to do.

i feel so much better. my hubby said it'll be easy for him to make that up for us.

*whew* at least my lesson from yesterday was shared here... for future members to read and learn from. don't use the vinegar and baking soda... it sucks. use co2 chambers instead please everyone :please:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

I'm so pleased... I was able to talk to the great guy who supplies the petstores I frequent with mice and ratties. So I told him about what happened yesterday (started crying right there in the middle of the store - I was so embarrassed) and I asked him how I can do it better and more effectively as I do not feel our experience yesterday was at all acceptable.

He told me to go get the (can't remember what it's called) tire filler upper thingy from a bicycle tire... and to get attach it to a piece of tubing... then to get (from the bicycle store) an emergency co2 chamber and the co2 units. he said you just attach the chamber (with a unit inside) to the 'tire filler upper thingy' and release the gas slowly.

he said they'll all be dead within minutes.

since i already have the cooler with all the holes etc... it should be easy to do.

i feel so much better. my hubby said it'll be easy for him to make that up for us.

*whew* at least my lesson from yesterday was shared here... for future members to read and learn from. don't use the vinegar and baking soda... it sucks. use co2 chambers instead please everyone :please:

---

Wow! That is a good idea. Will have to look into that! Thanks!:carrot:

ya don't forget the tire filler upper thingy... cause that's the most important part!

:rofl: i'm soooooo articulate :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

ya don't forget the tire filler upper thingy... cause that's the most important part!

:rofl: i'm soooooo articulate :P

---

Don't worrie!!:D :8:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I have a Co2 chamber but it has a big paintball gun Co2 bottle with a valve on it. Put rats in close top, open Co2 valve a little for like 5 to 10 secs and they go to sleep, close valve and leave them to sleep for like 5 minutes. Then they are ready to feed.

---

Exactly! But mine is a free standing canister. I put them into a large bag, put the CO2 in. When they're done, squeeze out the air, and pop 'em into the freezer already packaged!

'Leesha, it's HARD!!! I still feel bad, but know that my snakes eat healthier. But it IS hard. :(

RuLyn

I also used a paintball canister. Worked like a charm, but it takes quite a bit longer than 5-10 seconds. A Co2 concentration THAT high is going to be very painful (causing burning eyes, burning throat etc). You get a certain timing down that is comfortable, and although mine takes a longer they seem to go to sleep with little knowledge of the atmospheric change.

It's a learning experience. Similar when you learn to pull their necks properly, it requires a whole bunch of mistakes (twitchers, skinned tails, etc.) to learn how to do it right. Just practice. :sunny:

no thanks chris. :rainon: i couldn't do that to a living critter.

and joe... i agree with you. taking a few extra minutes to slowly put them to sleep is much better and much more humane.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

and joe... i agree with you. taking a few extra minutes to slowly put them to sleep is much better and much more humane.

---

Well, here's the way I did it. Keeping in mind I'm a techie, so this seemed relatively normal to me :D.

I bought a digital Co2 monitor, and disabled the alarm on it. I threw that in the tub and did several practice runs, until I could quite easily attain a Co2 concentration level of about 6%. Anything over 10% is both inhumane (my opinion) and hazadardous (Co2 at 10% concentration is highly flamable).

Typically, they will become unconcious in about 45 seconds, although it can take a minute or if they are younger or have respitory problems. At that concentration, death will come within 2 to 4 minutes.

The numbers above are very effective, and this is one of two methods of feeder euthanasia supported by the "big three" (HSUS, AVMA and AHA). The alternative being Sodium Pentobarbitol, which isn't exactly sitting around Walmart :D.

Oh, and you can call me Justin. But only because I like you :D.

sorry justin... :P

that's a great way to know what the levels are. too bad you can't have the monitor outside the tub with just a probe inside. that would be waaaay better. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankykeno

I'm trying to find the article for you Aleesha but I remember reading (it was a lab report on humane euthanization of rats) that CO2 on rats under 16 days of age tends to be not as effective or quick as on rats older than 16 days of age. It may be due to some change as they mature or simply that in nursing animals they tend to be nose breathers more than mouth breathers to facilitate the act of nursing. I'll keep trying to find it as it was very informative.

I'm sorry you went through this with the pups. I've been incredibly lucky to time my litters so we haven't had to put any down other than the very rare health issue popping up or a couple of adults for temperment problems.

If having to euthanize extras is upsetting hon you may want to look at options. We sell our extras off to another herper but you can always look at trading them to a pet store for store credit for dry supplies or donating them to a raptor rescue if one exists near you (they are always generally looking for clean rodents/baby chicks to feed their hungry feathered rescues).

---

shoot i totally missed the first three posts on page 4.

jo... these pups were 30 days old.

i am hoping to time my litters much better... to no longer have extras. if we continue to have extras then i'll simply let a breeder mama retire or rehome it... either way... we'll lower our breeders until we have the right amount for the snakes. although i do have to remember... adam has 4 babies waiting for CITES to come... and then we'll be feeding them as well. so that'll make a huge difference to our rattie needs.

man i've been out of it. i didn't read most of the threads everyone posted. thanks all for your great advice and support. i sooo appreciate it. i was in a fog of :rainon:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

sorry justin... :P

---

It's no biig deal :D... my ex-mother-in-law called me Jason once, 2 years after I married her daughter.

Quote:

---

that's a great way to know what the levels are. too bad you can't have the monitor outside the tub with just a probe inside. that would be waaaay better. ;)

---

You can... they start around $700.00 if your interested :).