Is there a reason/benefit to switch from mice to rats?

Just wondering. Darth is pounding down the mice right now. Every Wednesday like clockwork. Yesterday he didn’t even wait for the mouse to hit the floor of his tub before he grabbed it. Is there a benefit to feeding rats instead of mice?

Generally rats are much more nutritious than mice. I believe they have more protein and calcium to them, than mice.

No difference, it's just what the snake will eat and what the keeper can readily obtain.

I feed mice and have some 600g+ 2006 hatchlings. I don't think any have even seen rats before(except live ones across the room, but those are pets).

I feed rats over mice simply because rats become whatever size I need faster than mice do. And they don't smell as bad as mice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndrewH

Generally rats are much more nutritious than mice. I believe they have more protein and calcium to them, than mice.

---

Do you have any info to back that up? I've always read/heard that their really isn't much of a difference. And even if there was, it wouldn't matter, cause no one really knows the exact nutritional requirements of ball pythons...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by krood

Just wondering. Darth is pounding down the mice right now. Every Wednesday like clockwork. Yesterday he didn’t even wait for the mouse to hit the floor of his tub before he grabbed it. Is there a benefit to feeding rats instead of mice?

---

Feed them what they want. If rats are more convenient, try to switch them...if not, don't worry about it. They grow as they were meant to...

It depends on your situation. In my situation, i would MUCH rather be feeding rats because of my supplier. My rat supplier sells me small rats for $1.00. Where as my mouse supply is, unfortunatly, Petland at $1.29/mouse. I have one bp that refuses rats and takes 2 mice per feeding, which equals 2.58 (not inculding tax...my rat supplier sells them tax free :gj: )

But that's not really the question...I heard a long time ago that rats were better for bp's..I even noticed a huge change in size after i switched to rats. My preference is rats, but i have no facts to back up why my snake gained so much more weight after switching to rats...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndrewH

Generally rats are much more nutritious than mice. I believe they have more protein and calcium to them, than mice.

---

I agree too, but this can become a hot topic with some...haha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by krood

Just wondering. Darth is pounding down the mice right now. Every Wednesday like clockwork. Yesterday he didn’t even wait for the mouse to hit the floor of his tub before he grabbed it. Is there a benefit to feeding rats instead of mice?

---

You tell me - Mouser:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ho/EchoJan.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...o/EchoJan3.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...o/EchoJan6.jpg

Never met a rat in her life!

Quote:

---

Generally rats are much more nutritious than mice. I believe they have more protein and calcium to them, than mice.

---

Tell that to the girl above!

Just because they are fed a prey item than could be somewhat less nutritious than the other doesn't mean they won't grow to be healthy animals, correct?...


All of my Pythons have never seen a mouse once they come into my care. This is especially true of my giants. If I hatch them, they start right out on pinky rats, or larger if they can handle them.

Look at it through observation and experience. All of my rat feeders put on weight, and size much faster than my mouse feeders. They're all fed around 10% their body weight...


That does show that a rats nutritional value could be greater than that of a mouse. I am not saying mouse feeders won't get as large as rat feeders, but it does take some more time for them to achieve the size my rat feeders have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

Do you have any info to back that up? I've always read/heard that their really isn't much of a difference. And even if there was, it wouldn't matter, cause no one really knows the exact nutritional requirements of ball pythons...

---

Here's a link to a table RodentPro has. It shows the levels of crude protein, calcium etc on it. Read up, and enjoy ;)


http://rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

Andrew, can you post a link to the nutritional requirements of ball pythons? My three big girls have been on 2 mice a week - and have gained, on average, 100 grams a month. That's an excellent growth rate, and nothing to sneeze about! :D

I would imagine that there is LOTS of anecdotal evidence that can be found on both sides of that argument. One keeper can point to a snake that grew faster on rats than another did on mice.....another keeper can point to snakes that grew equally well on either. :confuzd: It just seems like such a non-issue to me. Feed whatever works.

And again, who knows? We were argueing which was more nutritious, and is there a benefit of feeding one over the other. Again, who knows, right? Who has done studies on the nutritional requirements of any Python specie in particular? All I know and care about are my animals put on an exceptional amount of size, and are overall and most importantly healthy.

This little thread can and will possibly be a debate, more on personal preferrence. But to argue which one is more nutritious, it would be the rat ;)

I was questioned as to whether or not I had information to back up my post as to which was more nutritious, had more protein value, and calcium, so I provided it.;)

Agreed! :rockon:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

I would imagine that there is LOTS of anecdotal evidence that can be found on both sides of that argument. One keeper can point to a snake that grew faster on rats than another did on mice.....another keeper can point to snakes that grew equally well on either. :confuzd: It just seems like such a non-issue to me. Feed whatever works.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndrewH

Here's a link to a table RodentPro has. It shows the levels of crude protein, calcium etc on it. Read up, and enjoy ;)


http://rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

---

Cool link, but I didn't notice the calcium count on it. Protein-yes, but no calcium. Did I miss it? I agree though that use whatever works and you have the most consistent availability of.

Haha, guess I read it too fast. I skimmed through and read protein and such through it and skipped right through to the percentages for each prey item :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndrewH

Haha, guess I read it too fast. I skimmed through and read protein and such through it and skipped right through to the percentages for each prey item :P

---

No prob, thanks anyways! :rockon:

I found the best reason to feed and raise rats are the smell, rats breed easier and rats are rarely canabalistic, mice are crazy and bite more. The other main reason is a large rat pup is larger than a mouse and safer than a full grown mouse. I have had some picky feeders that wouldn't eat untill left alone and leaving a rat pup is much safer for your snake, they can't bite. As far as the nutrition agruement goes I think the only thing you can say for sure is a rat gets bigger, meatier than a mouse so its more food. As your snake grows you can feed larger rats and not multiple mice which is cheaper especially when you are feeding many animals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

I would imagine that there is LOTS of anecdotal evidence that can be found on both sides of that argument. One keeper can point to a snake that grew faster on rats than another did on mice.....another keeper can point to snakes that grew equally well on either. :confuzd: It just seems like such a non-issue to me. Feed whatever works.

---

Totally agree

I prefer rat, because of the cost, because I would rather feed one prey then multiple, and now that I am gonna start breeding feeders I would rather breed rats then mice, they grow faster and stink less, but bottom line I feed my snakes whatever work for them and I am lucky that most of them eat rats, all but one, and it is ok I will breed couple of mice too.

Rats.

I feed FT. Mine wouldn't eat multiple prey items. Adult mouse seemed awful small. Switched easily to rats, and it's gotten much bigger, which isn't surprising since a small rat weighs twice as much as an adult mouse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

Feed whatever works.

---

The whole rats vs mice debate is pointless...the above quote says it all...

In the end, debate between humans or not, charts of protein/calcium content notwithstanding...it comes down to...


what
the
snake
will
eat

:)

Some of my buddies r big snake collectors. They just got me into it about a year ago, and they say a mouse but the lenght on a snake. And a rat puts the weight. Just my 2 cents lol. :2cent:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BloodySyn

Some of my buddies r big snake collectors. They just got me into it about a year ago, and they say a mouse but the lenght on a snake. And a rat puts the weight. Just my 2 cents lol. :2cent:

---

Complete BS IMO^^

A 20 g rat=a 20 g mouse and one does not affect a particular aspect of growth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by krood

Just wondering. Darth is pounding down the mice right now. Every Wednesday like clockwork. Yesterday he didn’t even wait for the mouse to hit the floor of his tub before he grabbed it. Is there a benefit to feeding rats instead of mice?

---

imo, the only benefit would be as adults you could feed one rat, instead of multiple mice in general. sometimes you can get bigger mice. i think the benefit is more for us than our snakes!

here is an july 06 hatch, and a mouser.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../9/les0119.JPG

he is currently 730 grams...


vaughn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kavmon

imo, the only benefit would be as adults you could feed one rat, instead of multiple mice in general. sometimes you can get bigger mice. i think the benefit is more for us than our snakes!

here is an july 06 hatch, and a mouser.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../9/les0119.JPG

he is currently 730 grams...


vaughn

---

You know Vaughn, you can always send that mouser to GA, since I'm quite sure you'd rather him be on rats, and I would hate for you to have to endure that frustration week after week. Since I've got several mousers, it's really no problem at all - anything for a friend! :D

Rats taste better. :twisted:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KLG

Rats taste better. :twisted:

---

And smell better!! lol

I've noticed with my boas that their body condition improved and they seemed fuller longer on a rat of equal size to the mice they were eating before. Not sure if the same is true with BP though

robin, you're too sweet! :)


yeah it's so much harder to order mice than rats :rolleyes:


vaughn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KLG

Rats taste better. :twisted:

---

*Gulp*.... :O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kavmon

robin, you're too sweet! :)

---

Vaughn, honestly - it's only right that a friend offer to help another friend out - I'm sure anyone else here would have done the same! :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kavmon

yeah it's so much harder to order mice than rats :rolleyes:


vaughn

---

That's what I'm saying! I know how mentally taxing it must be to you, and as a friend, I can't in good conscience sit by and watch you suffer so! :wuv:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BloodySyn

Some of my buddies r big snake collectors. They just got me into it about a year ago, and they say a mouse but the lenght on a snake. And a rat puts the weight. Just my 2 cents lol. :2cent:

---

If you get a chance, please ask your buddies the rationale behind why a mouse would grow a snake length wise, and a rat would just increase weight. I'm dying to know...:)

btw...that quote definitely added a new twist to the whole mice vs rats debate...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sho220

If you get a chance, please ask your buddies the rationale behind why a mouse would grow a snake length wise, and a rat would just increase weight. I'm dying to know...:)

btw...that quote definitely added a new twist to the whole mice vs rats debate...

---

Maybe rats are higher in fat and protein? Not sure at all

i just changed my ball over to ratties... and he POUNDS them back. i'm in shock at how enthusiastic he is now... as he wasn't all that enthusiastic about his mice.

so for us... ratties are working ;)

in my area... live mice are so skinny and scrawny... but my home-made fat healthy ratties are super yummy... so it doesn't surprise me the mice aren't inspiring him to want to eat.

Rats don't smell as bad? Thats the only real advantage I can think of...

Thats really the only reason I prefer to feed rats over mice...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Maybe rats are higher in fat and protein? Not sure at all

---

The thing is even if the nutritional value of Rat Vs Mice is different (and it is apparently), no study has been made on Ball Pythons nutritional requierements, at least not that I know of.

Bottom line they should not really be any debate regarding Mice VS Rats, just feed what work for your BP and for you.