For those who have used Equate to treat mites...

Let me start off by saying that I'm not posting this to have people get into a huge debate of which product is better... PAM or Equate. I personally took my bp to the vet the minute I noticed those little buggers (which was back on December 13th). She's currently on a weekly treatment (both her and her enclosure) of a diluted solution of Ivermectin (0.50 cc's per 1 liter of water to be exact). The problem is that I'm not sure it's doing the trick. Although I haven't noticed as many as before, I'm still seeing one or two. I was told they would be hard to get rid of but c'mon! Just this past weekend I was talking to one of the dealers at the swap I go to and she mentioned that she treats all her snakes with the Equate product and they're gone within 2 weeks. I've read several posts here on this forum about mite treatments and I was curious as to how people have specifically used this product. The gal I was talking to at the swap told me to spray down the entire enclosure and leave it set/dry for a few hours (of course removing the snake and water bowl first). She also told me to spray the area around the tank. I was reading the directions on this stuff and let me just say I'm a bit nervous. It talks about not letting this stuff get inhaled or directly on skin.... Can anyone out there shed a little more light on this and perhaps more detailed instructions as to how they treated their tanks??? Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated!

By the way... I'd also like to say "thanks" to all those who have posted on this site. While this is my first actual post I have frequented this site quite often for information since getting my 1st bp. Thank you!

Welcome to BP.net! I know you've "been" here for awhile...but this is my first chance to say "Welcome"... ;) :handshake


Were I in your shoes, I would go ahead and order PAM. I've never...not once...heard of a case where PAM did not get rid of the mites when used properly. In addition to that, it's already formulated to be safe to use in your animals' enclosures....and comes with concise, clear directions on how to properly and safely use it. No mixing and no guess work involved!!

That being said...if you're deadset on using Equate...please wait until someone with actual experience using it chimes in and explains how. That's definitely not something you want to leave to hearsay... "Well, I've never used it, but I was told that if you mix it like this....." Very risky, in my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rockrgrrl

I was reading the directions on this stuff and let me just say I'm a bit nervous.

---

LOL ... I'm sorry, but this just struck me as funny. I know you don't want a debate, but you do know that there are products out there that actually come with directions for treating your snakes enclosure and won't make you nervous to try right?

Wish I could be more helpful ... Good luck with the mites.

-adam

pam and equate are pretty much the same thing. if you look at the active ingredients they are the same thing. except one is 20bucks more. i have gotten new snakes in with mites and with in 48 hours they dont have one with equate. i have used it on my snakes for a long time with no problems. just make sure not to spray the animal. spary the cage or new lining 6-8 hours before you introduce the snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

pam and equate are pretty much the same thing. if you look at the active ingredients they are the same thing. except one is 20bucks more.

---

I don't know Matt, I never got nervous reading the side of a can of PAM. :P

-adam

exactly. if you use pam right and your snake dies contact the company for compensation. i bet they will do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

exactly. if you use pam right and your snake dies contact the company for compensation. i bet they will do it.

---

Wow...have you ever actually heard of someone's snake dying when they used PAM correctly? That would be an important thing to know, I think...

nope i sure havnt. i have also never herd that of equate. i do know it is leathel for them if the inhale it. but like you said never herd of any one losing one. proabbly out of embarasment for using it wrong and killing there snake as a result.

We're not debating which one is better (although I know where I stand on it ;) ) but the idea here is that its not good advice to tell somone to use equate without having any prior experience mixing pesticides or without having someone right in front of them to show them what to do since the product was not originally intended to be used on snakes.

Matt, can you at least acknolwedge that? It just seems irresponsible to recommend equate so strongly when it can be so dangerous when used by an inexperienced keeper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

exactly. if you use pam right and your snake dies contact the company for compensation. i bet they will do it.

---

I've been using PAM for over a decade now and have never had a problem ... I'm constantly buying new snakes to expand my collection and always treat them with PAM as soon as they come in ... 10+ years and it's one of my best tools in my ball python husbandry tool belt ... I can't imagine using anything else.

That said, I do know a lot of people that have lost snakes or screwed snakes up real bad using "homemade" mite remedies ... With the value of the animals in my collection, I don't have the stones to gamble like that.

To each their own! :D :carouse:

-adam

both are dangerious and poisioness. pam has a little more of the bug killer in it than equate. i will acknowledge that both work and if pam is what you feel better using go for it. i have used both. with great results. i was just tryn to save rockrrgrll some money. but by all means use what you want the snakes health is the most important thing.

i get pam direct from the company at cost. here is a link
http://www.pro-products.com/miteandtemp.html
saves a little money.

I HAVEN'T used it myself BUT the breeders that I have spoken to about it have stated that it is used the same way as PAM when using the equate lice bedding spray for Human beds (aerosal can). With that said, You would go by the exact directions that you were given by your friend.


PAM should be treated the same way when using. I'm pretty sure that it even states on the can that you shouldn't let the chemicals come into contact with skin or be inhaled.

Either way, it's up to you though... I won't go on about it more but to sum it up as a whole it's basically up to you. Just a price difference between the two $3 for a can of equate and $20 for a can of PAM.

If you look up both products the ingredients are the same. Both products should be used carefully and in a well ventilated area. You can also look around as well on other websites and forums and get differen't opinions .

There are numerous differen't ways to treat mites these are the two that I would consider using. I've used PAM before and it worked great! not downing it...just giving you some information that I have recieved by some great breeders! ;)

Hope this helps...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

both are dangerious and poisioness. pam has a little more of the bug killer in it than equate. i will acknowledge that both work and if pam is what you feel better using go for it. i have used both. with great results. i was just tryn to save rockrrgrll some money. but by all means use what you want the snakes health is the most important thing.

---

Rock on! :D

Here we go again...PAM is approved for use in treating reptile mites. Equate is a bedding spray for lice. Feel free to do whatever you want but understand that manufacturers are not always truthful and Equate may or may not contain the same ingredients and same formulation. We KNOW whats in PAM. Its amazing how far some will go to back something that they have NO experience using just to appear knowledgeable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

both are dangerious and poisioness. pam has a little more of the bug killer in it than equate. i will acknowledge that both work and if pam is what you feel better using go for it. i have used both. with great results. i was just tryn to save rockrrgrll some money. but by all means use what you want the snakes health is the most important thing.

---

Are the risks of someone with no experience with mite treatments REALLY worth saving $20?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by djslurp1200

If you look up both products the ingredients are the same. Both products should be used carefully and in a well ventilated area. You can also look around as well on other websites and forums and get differen't opinions .

---

Maybe the ingredients are the same, but are the concentrations of ingredients the same?

Let's try and keep it positive!

Use what you like, have fun, don't kill your snakes. :D

We can always bring this subject up tonight in chat. :D ... I'll let everyone know what I really think. ;) :P

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

Are the risks of someone with no experience with mite treatments REALLY worth saving $20?

---

whooooooooo. i said to use what you feal comfortable using. then went on to give a link. pam is great, i love it. i just so happen to use the other as well. :salute:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

We can always bring this subject up tonight in chat. :D ... I'll let everyone know what I really think. ;) :P

---

Shameless plug! There's going to be a RAINBOW tonight!

I wonder what else some people would do to save 17$?

A can of PAM will last a long time, and it is the only product that is FDA approved to use with reptiles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

Maybe the ingredients are the same, but are the concentrations of ingredients the same?

---

pam is actually more potent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

whooooooooo. i said to use what you feal comfortable using. then went on to give a link. pam is great, i love it. i just so happen to use the other as well. :salute:

---

ROCK ON Matt ... that's why they make so many flavors of ice cream. :rockon:

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

I wonder what else some people would do to save 17$?

A can of PAM will last a long time, and it is the only product that is FDA approved to use with reptiles.

---

if i use a can of pam for preventative maint. i use a hole can in a day. so that is a matter of how many cages you have.after tommrow i will be treating over 100 cages.

i like cherry. ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

A can of PAM will last a long time, and it is the only product that is FDA approved to use with reptiles.

---

Did the FDA really approve this for use with reptiles?? :confused: I thought the FDA was only concerned about products used for people?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xdeus

Shameless plug! There's going to be a RAINBOW tonight!

---

Who me? Now would I go gratuitously plugging the 8 Ball Chat going on tonight at 9pm at chat.8ballpythons.com like that? I mean, am I the type of person that would talk about how much fun we're going to have at the 8 Ball Chat at chat.8ballpythons.com tonight at 9pm EST just to get people to go to chat.8ballpythons.com and sign up for the regular Wednesday night 8 Ball Chat at 9pm EST every Wednesday night where we're all going to have fun and talk about ball pythons?

I think not sir. :P ;)

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Who me? Now would I go gratuitously plugging the 8 Ball Chat going on tonight at 9pm at chat.8ballpythons.com like that? I mean, am I the type of person that would talk about how much fun we're going to have at the 8 Ball Chat at chat.8ballpythons.com tonight at 9pm EST just to get people to go to chat.8ballpythons.com and sign up for the regular Wednesday night 8 Ball Chat at 9pm EST every Wednesday night where we're all going to have fun and talk about ball pythons?

I think not sir. :P ;)

---

:8: My bad.

yes they did. read this link
http://www.pro-products.com/miteandtemp.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

i like cherry. ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

---

I heard that about you! :rofl:

-adam

:carrot:
:rolleyes: :giggle:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I heard that about you! :rofl:

-adam

---

wow this is news to me. you mean to tell me there is going to be chat TONIGHT at chat.8ballpythons.com tonight at 9pm EST. wow if someone had told me that there was 8 Ball Chat at chat.8ballpythons.com tonight at 9pm EST. i would of made plans to be at 8 Ball Chat at chat.8ballpythons.com tonight at 9pm EST..

how dare you accuese adam of pluging 8 Ball Chat at chat.8ballpythons.com tonight at 9pm EST

how funny.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

wow this is news to me. you mean to tell me there is going to be chat TONIGHT at chat.8ballpythons.com tonight at 9pm EST. wow if someone had told me that there was 8 Ball Chat at chat.8ballpythons.com tonight at 9pm EST. i would of made plans to be at 8 Ball Chat at chat.8ballpythons.com tonight at 9pm EST..

how funny.

---

Jeez Matt ... people might think you're trying to get a free snake or something ... easy killer. :rofl:

-adam

i dont want anything from any one. i allready have a feed bil that would make most people cry.

here is what i think of that. adam
:fishslap: :fork: :groinkick

people can think what they want that is one of the things that can be done here. :D :D :D lamo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Jeez Matt ... people might think you're trying to get a free snake or something ... easy killer. :rofl:

-adam

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rabernet

Maybe the ingredients are the same, but are the concentrations of ingredients the same?

---

That is what Matt was getting at in his earlier post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

both are dangerious and poisioness. pam has a little more of the bug killer in it than equate. i will acknowledge that both work and if pam is what you feel better using go for it.

---

Do a search on google for active ingredients on both products...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jglass38

Its amazing how far some will go to back something that they have NO experience using just to appear knowledgeable.

---

No one is trying to back anything to APPEAR knowledgeable. I myself am only trying to offer a solution that has worked for many herpers and breeders alike.

Use what you feel comfortable using. If you go the Equate route. Use just as you would PAM. People can misuse PAM as easy as they can misuse Equate!
I would understand if you were comparing NIX Vs PAM or NIX VS Equate, but PAM Vs Equate...SAME THING, SAME USE, SAME RESULTS!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Jeez Matt ... people might think you're trying to get a free snake or something ... easy killer. :rofl:

-adam

---

:8: :laughing: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I treat all of my bedding with Equate as a preventative that something was in the substrate initially. I keep bedding in big tubs......so I give the tub full of new substrate a good blasting, seal up the tub, let it sit for a few days, air it out, then use the bedding.

If I actually had mites, I would use the can of PAM that I have sitting around to treat everything instead. Why go 'low dose' when you want to get rid of an existing problem?

Now if I can just figure out how to get rid of the tiny bugs that like to wonder into my monitor enclosures.....without killing all the crickets and poisoning my monitors.....oh well, I will continue to fight the hard fight by scooping out whatever I see ;)

you can use pam in your monitors cage. just use it in small doses on the sided. dont spray the bedding. i treat my monitor cages all the time and have not lost one yet.

Back to the basic question...I have used both (for several years)and now only use Equate. The active ingredient is Pyrethin which is water soluable (meaning it breaks down and is useless in the presence of water - so you must use it in a dry environment) it acts by stopping oxygen exchange in insects so they basically suffocate (sp). This is why is works so fast.

It doesn't work on Mammals or reptiles (in normal concentrations - but follow the instructions anyway - see the PAM link in a previous post)

The reason you still have mites is that ivermectin is a de-wormer and won't have any affect on mites. Get PAM or Equate (either works fine and spray away)

When I rescued an infested ball I sprayed my hands till they were wet and ran them over the snake to kill all the mites and ticks (solved the problem in one treatment - I washed my hands at this :) ) I also have any auto sprayer in my garage for my rats to kill EVERY bug in my garage and away from my rats...and in this case they breath the pyrethins all day long and my reptiles eat the rats (for over a decade without issue)

The choice is up to you but from my experience there is minimal risk.

Hope this helps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

i dont want anything from any one. i allready have a feed bil that would make most people cry.

---

Want to trade feeder bills? ... LMAO!!!

-adam

mine is about 250 a month. whats yours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

you can use pam in your monitors cage. just use it in small doses on the sided. dont spray the bedding. i treat my monitor cages all the time and have not lost one yet.

---

The fact that insects go into to the monitor cage as food items....I do not want insecticides present. Unlike most monitors, my v. storri are very small....so exposing them to any amount of poison is way too much of a risk. One pesticide dosed cricket might not do to much to a bosc or even an large ackie.....but it could kill a storri.

I've used oth Equate and PAM. I've had incredible results with both. I had a mite infestation a little while ago in my Blood Python rack and one of my Ball Python racks, so I moved these racks to the quarantine room, and used equate instead of PAM. To say the least after one treatment with Equate, I haven't seen mites again:D


To add to this though. If your going to treat mites, remember to follow the directions, and treat the snake as well. Give the snake a warm bath to help drown the mites on the animal. You can add a drop or two of Ivory soap, or another very mild soap to the water, after the snake has drank to avoid the snake consuming the soap. This will eliminate air pockets on the animal, and help kill off the mites. All of this information, as well as being recommended Equate came from a friend, Jim. It worked wonders. I see no problem at all with using Equate as long as you use it properly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BALLISTIC BOAS

mine is about 250 a month. whats yours.

---

More than that a week. ;)

-adam

I use proventamite and other products as well. they all work equaly well in killing mites and not harming reptiles. :)


I will not talk about the other products, as I dont want to argue with all the so called experts here! :P

There is always more than one way to accomplish something. and its important to keep an open mind. ;)

And whoever said Ivermectin was only a dewormer, isn't correct. It can be used as a mite/lice killer as well as I've used it to treat lice on rats before(yay rescues... *sigh*). The Ivermectin goes through their blood stream and when the parasites go to take a blood-meal, they ingest the ivermectin and die. We use it to kill ear mites too in conjunction with topical treatment.

I use Provent A Mite, when I need to, because that $17 extra I spent may well save one of my snakes' lives. I think that's all what we need to be concerned about here... Not the cost...

Sounds like some people I know who would rather spend $7 on a bag of crappy dog food, only to have to fix their dog's allergy problems, bladder infections/stones, joint problems later down the road, instead of spending $25 on a good quality dog food and never having any of those problems... All I can say to these people is DUH!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

And whoever said Ivermectin was only a dewormer, isn't correct. It can be used as a mite/lice killer as well as I've used it to treat lice on rats before(yay rescues... *sigh*). The Ivermectin goes through their blood stream and when the parasites go to take a blood-meal, they ingest the ivermectin and die. We use it to kill ear mites too in conjunction with topical treatment.

I use Provent A Mite, when I need to, because that $17 extra I spent may well save one of my snakes' lives. I think that's all what we need to be concerned about here... Not the cost...

Sounds like some people I know who would rather spend $7 on a bag of crappy dog food, only to have to fix their dog's allergy problems, bladder infections/stones, joint problems later down the road, instead of spending $25 on a good quality dog food and never having any of those problems... All I can say to these people is DUH!

---

Brilliant! Bottom line, if you are not experienced with home brews or alternative treatments, use PAM and don't risk your animal's life. I know Ed is referring to home brew that he has used for years but if used wrong it can and will cause serious neurological damage or death. If you are willing to risk your snake's life to save $17, you probably shouldn't own a living creature. I can't stress enough that owning, feeding and caring for a living, breathing creature is never cheap.

Jamie, Thats why I did not talk about my treatments that I use. I am so anal about mites, I mop the floor with one of my home remedies every month. just incase I pick up a mite egg on my shoe after a reptile show. being anal about mites is the reason I have none! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ECLARK

Jamie, Thats why I did not talk about my treatments that I use. I am so anal about mites, I mop the floor with one of my home remedies every month. just incase I pick up a mite egg on my shoe after a reptile show. being anal about mites is the reason I have none! :)

---

I hear ya! The only thing worse than being anal about mites is having anal mites..Or so I hear! :D

I had mites with my first Ball Python. Never had a single one since.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ECLARK

as I dont want to argue with all the so called experts here!

---

Who do you mean ED? :confuzd:

-adam