Just my view of things on the world in general

So I'm reading Yahoo about how they are saying that scientists believe global warming is likely man-made. Well duh. Took scientist to figure this out? Anyone with a brain and common sense can realize all the toxins we dump into the earth is going to do some sort of damage. The biggest threat to the world, its creatures and human beings IS human beings. There is such a craving for power, being the top dog, having more money and reaping the benefits of this artificial stature. I know the world is cruel and it's sort of getting to a point of each man for his own but, how are you gonna defend yourself when there's nothing left to defend? Everyone has their right to believe in what they want, but the way the world is with war, pollution and poverty who would want to live here?

You have to question people who even have a tug on their heart strings wether or not they'd even care if the world is in turmoil. People would rather wait and see with their own eyes rather then try to make a difference right now. However those who are aware of the world in its current status would more then likely say "It's already gone to far and I can't do anything" ... Well then thats basically putting your head in the sand and hope the sky wont fall cause you didn't see it fall.

The point of people is to get and have more then ANYONE else. Look at how fishermen in those huge nets are just gutting the oceans. People need to remember that even though you are 20,30,40 ect that you can still be told "No! That's enough for you!" We think once we are out of the nest we answer to ourselves, and ourselves only. Well we are still in the nest. The world is everyones home. Yours, mine, everyones! No matter where you live, we all live on earth and we need to care for our main source of life.

I refuse to have children of my own brought into this world. It's current status is just unsuitable in my eyes. I can't imagine where the worlds state would be when my child is 18? Hell, I don't even know if there will be a world, or even a civilization to be concerned with in 18 years. The amish aren't even safe from psychotic human beings. What next? Drive-by, or sled-by Eskimo harpoonings? Look at how many animals we've killed off? If we weren't so concerned with expanding outward and having more land we'd be so much more advanced in medicines for cancer, AIDS and other terrible diseases. But since we've destroyed so much land that could give us a cure, we've almost comitted pro-longed suicide and homicide. We would rather have "stuff" then live to enjoy life. You can't buy life, or prolong it if you don't care about it.

I'm gonna close with this. How hard is it to care, not be in a hurry and remember that no matter how bad you have it, someone has it WAY worse then you. I was at work today and my legs were killing me and I wanted to sit down. I sat down and thought "Wow. I'm complaining about the pain in my legs while someone out there can't feel their legs, or even has any legs to feel pain in!"

:hug:

when we focus on the positive in life, we attract more positive energy. so... if you want to change the state of the planet... focus on the good. focus on all the wonderful changes people like david suzuki are making - the countries like sweden who do care about our earth and what their footprint on it is.

and then... make changes in your own life. buy products from need, not want. fix what you can before buying new. don't upgrade just to have the latest and greatest but only because you can't make what you have work.

compost... don't use pesticides...

and enlighten others whenever possible.

:hug:

Indeed. I remember all my friends upgrading stereo components, their cars ect and I thought why? It's not that much better, if even better at all and for what? You're broke now and youll be broke again in 6 months. ;)

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

:hug:

when we focus on the positive in life, we attract more positive energy. so... if you want to change the state of the planet... focus on the good. focus on all the wonderful changes people like david suzuki are making - the countries like sweden who do care about our earth and what their footprint on it is.

and then... make changes in your own life. buy products from need, not want. fix what you can before buying new. don't upgrade just to have the latest and greatest but only because you can't make what you have work.

compost... don't use pesticides...

and enlighten others whenever possible.

:hug:

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it's not being broke that concerns me... it's the waste dumped into our landfills.

have you ever heard of 'conscious living'? it's about not buying new whenever possible. supporting stores and businesses as close to your home as possible. and doing everything as natural and organic as you can.

here's a link to an article about it from my magazine:

http://www.timelessspirit.com/SEPT06/tira.shtml

and here's a yahoo group which discusses and lives the concept:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thecompact/

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

it's not being broke that concerns me... it's the waste dumped into our landfills.

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Oh I know ;) But it's just sort of a why be broke all the time? Enjoy what you have for as long as you can have it? :D Much like life ...

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

here's a link to an article about it from my magazine:

http://www.timelessspirit.com/SEPT06/tira.shtml

and here's a yahoo group which discusses and lives the concept:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thecompact/

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Damn you're on the ball on this subject aren't ya? :D

I cannot agree more with you regarding children. While I hold nothing against people who want to have their own, I know that I never will, by choice. Luckily my fiancee feels the same way; I know of alot of couples who cannot agree on the procreation issue. I have my pets to nurture, most of which were castoffs from other people, and they fulfill my urge to nurture and care for something just fine. People say "oh, who will care for you when you're old??" I have seen enough people in nursing homes who get visited once a year if that, who had kids, to not buy into that rubbish.

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Originally Posted by Vomitore

However those who are aware of the world in its current status would more then likely say "It's already gone to far and I can't do anything" ... Well then thats basically putting your head in the sand and hope the sky wont fall cause you didn't see it fall.

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I'm basically in that camp. I'm a pessimist by nature and feel that there are far too many stupid and greedy people in the world to turn things around. Eventually we'll lead to our own destruction...

However, I do my part to slow that process down however miniscule it might be. I most likely won't be around to witness the fall of mankind, but I'll enjoy my life, family, snakes :) , and the world while I'm here.

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Originally Posted by Vomitore

Damn you're on the ball on this subject aren't ya? :D

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i sure do try to be ;) after all, there's a reason my magazine isn't printed on paper...

lawrence, no action is too small, none too insignificant. every single action causes a ripple... you may not see it yourself, but it's there!

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I'm basically in that camp. I'm a pessimist by nature and feel that there are far too many stupid and greedy people in the world to turn things around. Eventually we'll lead to our own destruction...

However, I do my part to slow that process down however miniscule it might be. I most likely won't be around to witness the fall of mankind, but I'll enjoy my life, family, snakes :) , and the world while I'm here.

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Here's how you gotta look at it. Lets say you got a room, and someone takes out a deck of cards and throws al the cards all over the room. If someone once a week picks up 1 card and puts it back in the deck, then after 52 weeks, it'll all be done. Yes that's a long time but even little thing count. Little things can do more then not doing anything at all. :D

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Originally Posted by Vomitore

Here's how you gotta look at it. Lets say you got a room, and someone takes out a deck of cards and throws al the cards all over the room. If someone once a week picks up 1 card and puts it back in the deck, then after 52 weeks, it'll all be done. Yes that's a long time but even little thing count. Little things can do more then not doing anything at all. :D

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Perhaps. Like I said, I do my part to pick up those cards, I just feel that there are a LOT more people throwing down a lot more cards than people can pick up.

We're a relatively small country population-wise, yet we use far more resources than any other country. Now take a look at China and India who is just now coming into the oil-age, and consider what kind of impact they will be making. Then consider the population growth that is going on...

I know it looks pretty depressing. I can sit down and feel terrible about it or devote my life to saving the whales, riding my bike to work, boycotting Walmart, or writing letters to the president... but in the end it will just delay the inevitable. That's not to say that people shouldn't care at all. I drive a little Corolla to save gas, I recycle and compost, teach my kids to care about nature and the world... but I realize that in the end I'm really just doing it for my own sense of well-being and social responsibility. :sunny:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Perhaps. Like I said, I do my part to pick up those cards, I just feel that there are a LOT more people throwing down a lot more cards than people can pick up.

We're a relatively small country population-wise, yet we use far more resources than any other country. Now take a look at China and India who is just now coming into the oil-age, and consider what kind of impact they will be making. Then consider the population growth that is going on...

I know it looks pretty depressing. I can sit down and feel terrible about it or devote my life to saving the whales, riding my bike to work, boycotting Walmart, or writing letters to the president... but in the end it will just delay the inevitable. That's not to say that people shouldn't care at all. I drive a little Corolla to save gas, I recycle and compost, teach my kids to care about nature and the world... but I realize that in the end I'm really just doing it for my own sense of well-being and social responsibility. :sunny:

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Even if what you do and teach may be SO small and barely noticed by many, doing something is more then others do. I agree more people care not to care. But if that was a global trend then I think we'd be even worse. We're human and we'll just destroy ourselves. I choose not to kill myself and others.

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Originally Posted by Vomitore

Even if what you do and teach may be SO small and barely noticed by many, doing something is more then others do. I agree more people care not to care. But if that was a global trend then I think we'd be even worse. We're human and we'll just destroy ourselves. I choose not to kill myself and others.

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Right on. Just don't expend too much energy worrying about what others do, as you can't control the actions of others. Life is too short, you may as well enjoy the journey. ;)

actually i go back to the ripple effect.

when you DO choose to be environmentally action oriented (whatever that is for you) then others see you and you may not even realize it...

for example: i don't use pesticides in my yard... and one of my neighbours has always used them in her yard. she came over one day and asked what kind i use cause my yard looks so great. i told her we don't use any. she was shocked. she didn't realize she could have a gorgeous yard without chemicals. so... she stopped using it in her yard. who knows how many of her friends she 'converted'.

i used cloth diapers with my kids. i had friends who had never used them and didn't want to use them but they did like the idea of using cloth wipes on their kids bottoms... so they stopped buying the pre-made wipes and tossing them away... and instead started using flannel wipes that were washed.

just a couple examples to show... we do each make a difference and we do create a ripple.

now... going from there... trust me, there are lots of people out there working to make changes on a grander scale... it's not our place to make those changes as we aren't connected to that issue (for example: we aren't choosing to go work for David Suzuki) - so instead, we get a better vehicle, walk when possible or ride a bike... compost etc etc etc to make the difference WE can make.

don't give up... cause if everyone does... :puke:

(as the saying sorta says) "become the difference you wish to see in the world"

I have been reading E.O Wilson's "The Creation: An Appeal to Save Life on Earth" for the past few days. While the speed and efficiency in which the human population has ravaged the earth are shocking, Wilson points out that while it will be a long and diffiicult road back to balance with nature, it is not out of reach. Many technological advances are helping us head in the right direction now and with proper planning, once thriving ecosystems can and will return to their past splendor. Mother nature is quite resilient, and we have not reach the point of no return.

I do what I can personally, and I work for a NPO that spreads the same message. I realize this is just a drop in ocean of the earth's needs, but I am optimistic for the future. It will get worse before it gets better (we will likely lose a good amount of species diversity on earth before it does), but I do believe it will get better, and hopefully in my lifetime.

On a side note, I am going to hear Wilson lecture at the end of the month, and I'm very excited!!! I also highly recommend his new book to anyone that wants an eye-opening read!!

-Evan

Mike there are lots of days I wonder about the world I chose to bring four kids into too. Then there are days when I look at the wonderful human beings I birthed and I know that maybe, just maybe they might make a difference. When my 5 year old looks at trash someone threw down and he murmurs rather sadly..."momma they are making my world dirty"...or my 19 year old daughter does something that steals my breath away with it's simple goodness....my 13 year old who in the midst of her own teenage drama remembers to be kind to someone less fortunate....or my 15 year old son, almost a man, but still my red headed child who loves his mother and shows such patience with the little and somewhat tiresome brother I gave him....

Well Mike that's when I know that for me it was right to bring these lives into this troubled world of ours. None of them may ever cure cancer, stop a war or do something grand, but they will in their own ways make a difference and that difference will hopefully be enough to tip a scale somewhere. That's enough for me as a parent and as a citizen of this world. :)

We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Mike there are lots of days I wonder about the world I chose to bring four kids into too. Then there are days when I look at the wonderful human beings I birthed and I know that maybe, just maybe they might make a difference. When my 5 year old looks at trash someone threw down and he murmurs rather sadly..."momma they are making my world dirty"...or my 19 year old daughter does something that steals my breath away with it's simple goodness....my 13 year old who in the midst of her own teenage drama remembers to be kind to someone less fortunate....or my 15 year old son, almost a man, but still my red headed child who loves his mother and shows such patience with the little and somewhat tiresome brother I gave him....

Well Mike that's when I know that for me it was right to bring these lives into this troubled world of ours. None of them may ever cure cancer, stop a war or do something grand, but they will in their own ways make a difference and that difference will hopefully be enough to tip a scale somewhere. That's enough for me as a parent and as a citizen of this world. :)

We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Very proud mama there ;) Please don't think I meant that people shouldn't have kids now in these times. Everyone has a choice they make and to each their own. I tend to worry more about others then myself so things get scary for me when I think about em.

Oh I don't think that Mike and I completely support everyone's choice to be or not be a parent. I'm actually glad we live in a time where we women (and men) do have the choice and are not a victim simply of nature or societal expectations. I just am sad a bit that a young man of your obvious potential and young age is already so jaded by this world of ours. How sad that we as a society cannot stand together and bring into this world a group of children and young adults that are more hopeful of the world we leave them.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Oh I don't think that Mike and I completely support everyone's choice to be or not be a parent. I'm actually glad we live in a time where we women (and men) do have the choice and are not a victim simply of nature or societal expectations. I just am sad a bit that a young man of your obvious potential and young age is already so jaded by this world of ours. How sad that we as a society cannot stand together and bring into this world a group of children and young adults that are more hopeful of the world we leave them.

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I know we can't have the cord attached to our kids forever but man I'm like super emotionally attached to those who I care for. Lil scary ... Also, I had to deal alot with my sis when I younger up till I was about 21 or 22 and I saw the hell she put me and my family through and I dunno how I'd deal with something like that. Now she has 2 kids that she had to give one up for adoption and the new one he's just gonna be a nasty problem to deal with. He's 3 or 4 and he got up the other night and killed both rabbits, their parakeet, and their 2 rats and hid the bodies. She took him to a therapist and he said he's showing signs of manic depression among other problems and he said that my nephew really needs to kept under intense watch. Well, my sister is not a responsible person. I think I'm just so tired of constant problems rampant in my family with imbalances ect.

my thought on things is if everyone just starts out small it would make a huge impact.


I got a scooter to drive to and from work. Sounds like a small dumb thing but that ends up being alot less polutants in the air!

I think if everyone just started being concious of what they are doing, they could make huge impacts by changing small things.

Try not to buy products that do not easily break down, recycle, carpool, take the buss. None of these things are hard to do but if everyone did them we would be so much better off.

I think in todays world people are just so wrapped up in making their own lives as easy as possible that they don't stop to think what they are doing to mother earth.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Oh I don't think that Mike and I completely support everyone's choice to be or not be a parent.

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Well that's what you get when you take cold meds and don't read over what you typed LOL. What that was supposed to say was basically that I support everyone's choice to be or not be a parent. Somehow the way that sentence is structured it reads funky but blame the meds and my foggy head please LOL.

Mike, the best piece of advice I think I can come up with is to find others. A person can't pick the family they get stuck being born into, we have no choice in these matters...but we can surround ourselves with supportive friends that become in some ways a better family than nature gave us. If we are really blessed, maybe even find a life partner that we can truly be safe and happy with.

We can also as adults make hard decisions about those that are toxic to us. Once we've done all we reasonably can to be a supportive person then it becomes the choice of "is this person toxic to me?". Some people even though we love them are truly more toxic than any poison out there and will take you down with them. The hard thing is to know when is enough and when to draw those lines and walk away to a better place emotionally.

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Originally Posted by green_man

my thought on things is if everyone just starts out small it would make a huge impact.


I got a scooter to drive to and from work. Sounds like a small dumb thing but that ends up being alot less polutants in the air!

I think if everyone just started being concious of what they are doing, they could make huge impacts by changing small things.

Try not to buy products that do not easily break down, recycle, carpool, take the buss. None of these things are hard to do but if everyone did them we would be so much better off.

I think in todays world people are just so wrapped up in making their own lives as easy as possible that they don't stop to think what they are doing to mother earth.

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I didn't start driving till I was 24. Why? Cause for one insurance in LA for new drivers is 324.00 a month! That's the cheapest we could find! Also I'd drive up to the hills with friends and I'd see this huge thick blackish brown blanket of smog over the valley. I just thought man I don't wanna add to that! Plus when I had a bike I was in WAY better shape then I am now. I might get a bike this weekend cause my work is only 2.5 miles from home.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Well that's what you get when you take cold meds and don't read over what you typed LOL. What that was supposed to say was basically that I support everyone's choice to be or not be a parent. Somehow the way that sentence is structured it reads funky but blame the meds and my foggy head please LOL.

Mike, the best piece of advice I think I can come up with is to find others. A person can't pick the family they get stuck being born into, we have no choice in these matters...but we can surround ourselves with supportive friends that become in some ways a better family than nature gave us. If we are really blessed, maybe even find a life partner that we can truly be safe and happy with.

We can also as adults make hard decisions about those that are toxic to us. Once we've done all we reasonably can to be a supportive person then it becomes the choice of "is this person toxic to me?". Some people even though we love them are truly more toxic than any poison out there and will take you down with them. The hard thing is to know when is enough and when to draw those lines and walk away to a better place emotionally.

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I knew what ya meant ;) You're on cold medicine leave. :D

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I cannot agree more with you regarding children. While I hold nothing against people who want to have their own, I know that I never will, by choice. Luckily my fiancee feels the same way; I know of alot of couples who cannot agree on the procreation issue. I have my pets to nurture, most of which were castoffs from other people, and they fulfill my urge to nurture and care for something just fine. People say "oh, who will care for you when you're old??" I have seen enough people in nursing homes who get visited once a year if that, who had kids, to not buy into that rubbish.

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I agree

I won't ever be having children either
My pets are my children

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Originally Posted by Vomitore

So I'm reading Yahoo about how they are saying that scientists believe global warming is likely man-made. Well duh. Took scientist to figure this out? Anyone with a brain and common sense can realize all the toxins we dump into the earth is going to do some sort of damage. The biggest threat to the world, its creatures and human beings IS human beings. There is such a craving for power, being the top dog, having more money and reaping the benefits of this artificial stature. I know the world is cruel and it's sort of getting to a point of each man for his own but, how are you gonna defend yourself when there's nothing left to defend? Everyone has their right to believe in what they want, but the way the world is with war, pollution and poverty who would want to live here?

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It did take science and reason to find this out. CO2 is certainly not a toxin to plants...its naturally produced from all of us.

This is not to say that I do not believe in anthropogenic induced climate change. And I believed in it before this report. Probably the best site on issues dealing with climate change is realclimate.org.

This is one of the articles that convinced me the most......http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ities-updated/

But my overall point is that although I can sympathesize with you I think your really simplifing things in a pessimistic way. Sure there are problems today......and they are problems that threaten the entire existence of the Human species. But can you point to a time in human history were their werent serious problems? I bet most people living in Midevil Europe would trade their world for ours! Nor do I believe that this is the only time in Earth's history where our species looked like it may go extinct. The cold war, bubonic plague, etc produced some scary moments.

You sound a bit like an old man yelling that "these kids these days dont get it". Every generation has said that the next is worst and every generation has felt to some extent that the world was in serious jeopardy (although some had much better reasons to believe this).

Too often environmental issues are overly politicized and emotionalized into dogmatic hysteria and conspiracy theories from both sides of the political spectrum. This is quite easily to do to a population that suffers from a lack a basic scientific literacy, reasonable discourse, and intellectual honesty.

People on the right tend to create opposition to climate change and environmental issues by resorting to "common sense". Hey, look its going to be 0 in PA this weekend....and those scientists say the earth is warming? Many companies also like to create high paid "experts" to dismiss the latest scientific findings to that it appears their is a controversy. Tobacco companies did this and many oil companies are doing the same.

On the other hand, people on the left tend to believe in this ethereal thing called "mother earth". As if the sole purpose of the earth is to nuture the human species and always provide for its existence. Such people need to go back and see how the cavemen felt about "mother earth" during the last ice age. Or maybe they just need to live in the woods for a few days and try making everything on their own. There is a reason why people have longer life expectancy today and it has little to do with "mother nature".

There is some evidence that the Earth was warming even before industrialization due to human activities. This data suggests that when humankind left a nomadic hunter gather lifestyle and began what we now call agriculture, that our species help prevent an ice age. See this link and this link.

This hypothesis (called the early anthropocene' hypothesis) is still controversial. But I think it hightlights the need to really understand that while humans depend on the environment, its not enough to leave mother nature be. Mother nature will not just take care of us. Instead, we must intelligently mold it to suit our needs in a sustainable fashion. Humans are and always will be ecological engineers, we just need to be smart, socially conscious ecological engineers for future generations. I think of the sci fi novel Dune.

Of course there are other ways of being smart, that aren't socially conscious. I'm sure there will be those that latch onto the early anthropocene' hypothesis if it is confirmed and say see we have been warming the Earth for a long time, so we mustn't have a problem.....in other words, Why should we worry about it now? The problem is the rate we are adding CO2 to the atmosphere is so unprecedented and not smart for a society with more people than ever living near the coasts. There will have devastating effects and currently more people than ever live on the coasts......there will be a lot of heartbreak and torn down dreams.

I believe in Societal Substainability, basically a peaceful coexistence of humans that allows civilization to maintain themselves. I think this must occur through a combination of 3Rs (Reduce, Reuse, Recycle), practical species conservation, and through technology. I also think we've made strides towards this culturally....as pointed out above for the first time it seems that many people will not look down upon you if you don't have kids.

If people really care about their kids and future generations, then they should show this by supporting substainability, not hippie, lets have a festival mother earth crap or the corporate bottom line.

I share your concern about bringing children into this world and I probably wont do so.......I think most people have kids for very greedy reasons....they have to have one cause their sister or friend had one....that kind of thing.....and they must also think something along the lines that they feel there is something special about them and their genetics.....because rarely is adoption the first choice. Think Richard Dawkins' Selfish Gene. Furthermore, many people don't really realize the real sacrifice it takes to be a parent that will raise a socially conscious, contributing member of society.

For me personally....I feel as though there's nothing that outstanding genetically that I have to give. I feel as though I can give to the next generation and maybe even become immortalized a bit by becoming the best teacher I can be......an advocate for young people and an ambassador for science. Furthermore, how can I dedicate the necessary time to my students and to children? Some people think they can do both...but I'm much more modest or realistic...I'm not sure I can give 20-25 yrs of my life to being a great parent and at same time be great, hard-working teacher.
Truthfully, I dont think that would give me any free time to be just me.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

It did take science and reason to find this out. CO2 is certainly not a toxin to plants...its naturally produced from all of us.

This is not to say that I do not believe in anthropogenic induced climate change. And I believed in it before this report. Probably the best site on issues dealing with climate change is realclimate.org.

This is one of the articles that convinced me the most......http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...ities-updated/

But my overall point is that although I can sympathesize with you I think your really simplifing things in a pessimistic way. Sure there are problems today......and they are problems that threaten the entire existence of the Human species. But can you point to a time in human history were their werent serious problems? I bet most people living in Midevil Europe would trade their world for ours! Nor do I believe that this is the only time in Earth's history where our species looked like it may go extinct. The cold war, bubonic plague, etc produced some scary moments.

You sound a bit like an old man yelling that "these kids these days dont get it". Every generation has said that the next is worst and every generation has felt to some extent that the world was in serious jeopardy (although some had much better reasons to believe this).

Too often environmental issues are overly politicized and emotionalized into dogmatic hysteria and conspiracy theories from both sides of the political spectrum. This is quite easily to do to a population that suffers from a lack a basic scientific literacy, reasonable discourse, and intellectual honesty.

People on the right tend to create opposition to climate change and environmental issues by resorting to "common sense". Hey, look its going to be 0 in PA this weekend....and those scientists say the earth is warming? Many companies also like to create high paid "experts" to dismiss the latest scientific findings to that it appears their is a controversy. Tobacco companies did this and many oil companies are doing the same.

On the other hand, people on the left tend to believe in this ethereal thing called "mother earth". As if the sole purpose of the earth is to nuture the human species and always provide for its existence. Such people need to go back and see how the cavemen felt about "mother earth" during the last ice age. Or maybe they just need to live in the woods for a few days and try making everything on their own. There is a reason why people have longer life expectancy today and it has little to do with "mother nature".

There is some evidence that the Earth was warming even before industrialization due to human activities. This data suggests that when humankind left a nomadic hunter gather lifestyle and began what we now call agriculture, that our species help prevent an ice age. See this link and this link.

This hypothesis (called the early anthropocene' hypothesis) is still controversial. But I think it hightlights the need to really understand that while humans depend on the environment, its not enough to leave mother nature be. Mother nature will not just take care of us. Instead, we must intelligently mold it to suit our needs in a sustainable fashion. Humans are and always will be ecological engineers, we just need to be smart, socially conscious ecological engineers for future generations. I think of the sci fi novel Dune.

Of course there are other ways of being smart, that aren't socially conscious. I'm sure there will be those that latch onto the early anthropocene' hypothesis if it is confirmed and say see we have been warming the Earth for a long time, so we mustn't have a problem.....in other words, Why should we worry about it now? The problem is the rate we are adding CO2 to the atmosphere is so unprecedented and not smart for a society with more people than ever living near the coasts. There will have devastating effects and currently more people than ever live on the coasts......there will be a lot of heartbreak and torn down dreams.

I believe in Societal Substainability, basically a peaceful coexistence of humans that allows civilization to maintain themselves. I think this must occur through a combination of 3Rs (Reduce, Reuse, Recycle), practical species conservation, and through technology. I also think we've made strides towards this culturally....as pointed out above for the first time it seems that many people will not look down upon you if you don't have kids.

If people really care about their kids and future generations, then they should show this by supporting substainability, not hippie, lets have a festival mother earth crap or the corporate bottom line.

I share your concern about bringing children into this world and I probably wont do so.......I think most people have kids for very greedy reasons....they have to have one cause their sister or friend had one....that kind of thing.....and they must also think something along the lines that they feel there is something special about them and their genetics.....because rarely is adoption the first choice. Think Richard Dawkins' Selfish Gene. Furthermore, many people don't really realize the real sacrifice it takes to be a parent that will raise a socially conscious, contributing member of society.

For me personally....I feel as though there's nothing that outstanding genetically that I have to give. I feel as though I can give to the next generation and maybe even become immortalized a bit by becoming the best teacher I can be......an advocate for young people and an ambassador for science. Furthermore, how can I dedicate the necessary time to my students and to children? Some people think they can do both...but I'm much more modest or realistic...I'm not sure I can give 20-25 yrs of my life to being a great parent and at same time be great, hard-working teacher.
Truthfully, I dont think that would give me any free time to be just me.

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Excellent commentary on a very interesting topic. I find it amazing how little solar power is used privately and in public buildings. It makes us immediately self reliant on the devices we use constantly. Not only reduces oil compsumption but can save provide power instanly in a natural disaster. My future goal is to run my household, animals and greenhouse on solar technology. There are many other alternative forms of energy but this one is free as long as the sun rises. :sunny: