Piebald Lines?

How many Pied lines are there... and are they really any different from each other? If so, what are the differences? :confused:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

How many Pied lines are there... and are they really any different from each other? If so, what are the differences? :confused:

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Lawrence,now you have me wondering now lol.Its funny i dont remember anyone useing certain "lines" when talking about pieds:confused: .

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Originally Posted by xdeus

How many Pied lines are there... and are they really any different from each other? If so, what are the differences? :confused:

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I think that Pete originally started out with 4 WC pieds (one male and three females give or take??) that he had aquired from various sources ... there have been other pieds "known" in the trade before that, but Pete was the first to "work the projec" ... and for some reason I'm thinking that since then a couple/few more have been brought in, but I could be wrong (I've got notes somewhere around here) ... they all appear to be identical as far as compatibility and the way that they produce variably patterned white babies.

You might enjoy this article if you've never read it before.

http://www.pkreptiles.com/informatio...allpythons.asp

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You might enjoy this article if you've never read it before.

http://www.pkreptiles.com/informatio...allpythons.asp

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Thanks for the link, Adam. It seems like there are really only two lines: the normal Pied the everyone know about, and the banded one he refers to at the end of the article. I haven't heard anything about that one... perhaps Kara can fill us in?

Anyway, I wondered about the different lines because there are posts on KS labeling them as a specific line. It seems kind of silly if they're essentially all the same.

I've always thought that one pictured at the bottom of the article was a Ringer. :confuzd: I'm easily confused! :P


As for different lines of pieds...I've never heard anyone define them that way, but I've seen what looks to my eye like two different kinds. My favorite look in a pied is the really pretty bright orangey/brown markings and clean lines between the color and the white (such as the ones pictured in the article Adam linked to).....but I've also seen pieds with much muddier coloring and raggedy edges around the pattern. I have no idea if those traits are as random as the white markings, or if they are selectively bred that way.

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Originally Posted by JLC

but I've also seen pieds with much muddier coloring and raggedy edges around the pattern.

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I've seen the muddied color, but I always assumed that came with age.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I've seen the muddied color, but I always assumed that came with age.

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Hmmmmmmm.....I never thought of that.... One of these days, I'm just gonna have to get my hands on a whole bunch of pieds and find out for myself! :P

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Originally Posted by JLC

Hmmmmmmm.....I never thought of that.... One of these days, I'm just gonna have to get my hands on a whole bunch of pieds and find out for myself! :P

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I know where you can go. ;)

<Adam uses bad singing voice>

Leavin on a jet plane ... headed east towards Maryland ... leavin on a jet plane ... don't know when ...

</end bad singing voice because of neighborhood dogs howling>

:D

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I know where you can go. ;)

<Adam uses bad singing voice>

Leavin on a jet plane ... headed east towards Maryland ... leavin on a jet plane ... don't know when ...

</end bad singing voice because of neighborhood dogs howling>

:D

-adam

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:8: Now why didn't I get serenaded like that when you were walking me back to my hotel each night??? :giggle:

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Originally Posted by JLC

:8: Now why didn't I get serenaded like that when you were walking me back to my hotel each night??? :giggle:

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Too drunk to remember the words to anything? :D :carrot:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Too drunk to remember the words to anything? :D :carrot:

-adam

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Haha...maybe. I was thinking, "Not drunk enough...more Coronas next year!"

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Originally Posted by JLC

Haha...maybe. I was thinking, "Not drunk enough...more Coronas next year!"

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is more even possible? ... The bartendars from both bars at the hilton are already on my cell phones "hot list" ... I make friends with bartendars every year I go to Daytona!! :P

-adam

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I've seen the muddied color, but I always assumed that came with age.

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I do believe you are right. From what I've seen they "darken up" with age... some more then others.

What a GREAT question! I know what I'm asking Pete tomorrow!!!

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

I do believe you are right. From what I've seen they "darken up" with age... some more then others.

What a GREAT question! I know what I'm asking Pete tomorrow!!!

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I was hoping you'd chime in on this thread Allison! ... Get the straight poop from the man himself for us! :D:D:D

:bow: LILLYORCHID

-adam

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

I know what I'm asking Pete tomorrow!!!

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:banana: :banana:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Anyway, I wondered about the different lines because there are posts on KS labeling them as a specific line. It seems kind of silly if they're essentially all the same.

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What lines are these people calling them?
I'd just like to know so if Pete ask me -what am I talking about?- I can say " well so and so said this line or so and so listed it as this line on KS..."
(doubt he will and will probably know exactly what I'm asking about - but you never know since I word what I say weird and it confuses people at times) :confuse:

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

What lines are these people calling them?
I'd just like to know so if Pete ask me -what am I talking about?- I can say " well so and so said this line or so and so listed it as this line on KS..."
(doubt he will and will probably know exactly what I'm asking about - but you never know since I word what I say weird and it confuses people at times) :confuse:

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The last one I remember was posted by Alan Bosch. The KS ad is still up, and in it he states "My line of pieds is known for vigor, healthy appetite and strong breeding urge.".

Sounds like a sales line, but it got me thinking about Pied lines and if there were any noticeable differences in them.

Thanks Lawrence - that does sound like a sales line. I just looked at Alan's website and he says he got his first Pied hets from PK back in 97.... so who knows maybe there are different lines out there now??? Either way I'll find out tomorrow and report back here with the info I find out for you all.

If Im not mistaken, Ernie Wagner was the first to work with the Piebald ball pythons. Pete eventually purchased Ernies Group to add to what he had. which was a very smart business decision! all the pieds are compatible and therefore leads me to believe they are basicly all the same. ;) :gj:

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

If Im not mistaken, Ernie Wagner was the first to work with the Piebald ball pythons. Pete eventually purchased Ernies Group to add to what he had. which was a very smart business decision! all the pieds are compatible and therefore leads me to believe they are basicly all the same. ;) :gj:

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When I bought my original het albino male from Ernie, I'm pretty certain that he told me that his pieds never bred for him ... but that was long ago and I could be mixed up with something else Ernie had (he had EVERYTHING :P ) .... Pete augmented his pied group with Ernies animals after he produced his first pied clutch from a pied x pied breeding I think???

-adam

Brian Sharp had the first Pied...It died and he got another one in...He then traded that one to Pete Kahl before ever breeding it...Jon

Adam, not sure if Ernie ever reproduced a Piebald, just know he was one of the early pioneers with this morph. :)

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

When I bought my original het albino male from Ernie, I'm pretty certain that he told me that his pieds never bred for him ... but that was long ago and I could be mixed up with something else Ernie had (he had EVERYTHING :P ) .... Pete augmented his pied group with Ernies animals after he produced his first pied clutch from a pied x pied breeding I think???

-adam

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Adam, not sure if Ernie ever reproduced a Piebald, just know he was one of the early pioneers with this morph. :)

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Well, Pete certainly is the guy that produced the first pieds ... I'm just unsure if anyone produced hets before he did ... I always thought it was Cal Zoo that got the first pied in and sold it for like $8 or some ridiculous amount?

Soooo much ball python history in such a short amount of time ... nice to see you helping to figure it out ED!! :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by JLC

I've always thought that one pictured at the bottom of the article was a Ringer.

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Right you are...that's the Mega Ringer (not a Pied).

K~

Adam, just wanted to mention a name that few of the younger members here have never heard of, there are lots of guys and gals like Ernie that have made major contributions to this ball python morph craze. that have always worked out of the limelight! :)

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Well, Pete certainly is the guy that produced the first pieds ... I'm just unsure if anyone produced hets before he did ... I always thought it was Cal Zoo that got the first pied in and sold it for like $8 or some ridiculous amount?

Soooo much ball python history in such a short amount of time ... nice to see you helping to figure it out ED!! :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Adam, just wanted to mention a name that few of the younger members here have never heard of, there are lots of guys and gals like Ernie that have made major contributions to this ball python morph craze. that have always worked out of the limelight! :)

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Absolutely! ... Ernie was the man in his day!! ... He got me started with my first non normal ... a 100% het albino male ... a decade ago! ... You don't even want to know what I paid. :(

It's awesome that there are a lot of old timers (I mean that in the good way bud :P ) like you around to keep the history of this most awesome hobby alive and to help remind the young ankle biters where it all came from. :carrot:

Keep up the awesome work dude! :rockon:

-adam

Thanks Ed & Adam... HA see I just learned another new thing about 'em & their history. =)

Is this Ernie guy you speak of still around in the biz?

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Originally Posted by xdeus

The last one I remember was posted by Alan Bosch. The KS ad is still up, and in it he states "My line of pieds is known for vigor, healthy appetite and strong breeding urge.".

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And what line is that? His "DaVinci Line"? :8: LMAO

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Soooo much ball python history in such a short amount of time ... nice to see you helping to figure it out ED!! :sweeet:
-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

It's awesome that there are a lot of old timers (I mean that in the good way bud :P ) like you around to keep the history of this most awesome hobby alive and to help remind the young ankle biters where it all came from. :carrot:

Keep up the awesome work dude! :rockon:

-adam

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No doubt Adam! Gotta give props to the ones who have been there and done that all these years ;)
I think you're too modest Ed, you've been producing Ball Pythons for what, how many years now? Rock on!

Okay Lilyorchid we seriously need "the poop" from Pete...anything pied, I needs to know more infoz...

Cass - I LOVE Pied's!!! They are my most favorite morph in the BP world. Really it was hard not to just pick up the phone and call him right then and there when I first read this thread to ask him about it. Though I didn't because I know he was super busy when I left the shop. I can't get enough of the pied's nor do I ever get tired of hearing, seeing, and learning about them. Pete loves to talk about all the snakes he has ever had or has right now. He will just go on and on about them. I could literally sit there and just listen to him go on and on all day long with out getting the least bit bored with any of it.

This question is really bugging me now. LOL I must find out cause it's driving me nuts.

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Cass - I LOVE Pied's!!! They are my most favorite morph in the BP world. Really it was hard not to just pick up the phone and call him right then and there when I first read this thread to ask him about it. Though I didn't because I know he was super busy when I left the shop. I can't get enough of the pied's nor do I ever get tired of hearing, seeing, and learning about them. Pete loves to talk about all the snakes he has ever had or has right now. He will just go on and on about them. I could literally sit there and just listen to him go on and on all day long with out getting the least bit bored with any of it.

This question is really bugging me now. LOL I must find out cause it's driving me nuts.

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Weeeellll, the next you are there...tell him we are ALL interested and we want more story! =D

btw, I'm so jealous you get to work with the breeder who worked with the first/one of the first pieds....pieds are my ultimate bp!

(oh and pete's salmon boas don't suck...)

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

This question is really bugging me now. LOL I must find out cause it's driving me nuts.

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Wow. I didn't think this question would incite such a quest for knowledge. :) BTW, thanks Kara for clearing up that ringer.

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

all the pieds are compatible and therefore leads me to believe they are basicly all the same. ;) :gj:

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Like Black Pastels and Cinnys? :laughing:

Lawrence, this was a very informative and interesting discussion until you decieded to take a shot at me.


Your a mod, right. :confuzd:

Some people as yourself are just totally void of any kind of class. :mad:

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Lawrence, this was a very informative and interesting discussion until you decieded to take a shot at me.

Your a mod, right. :confuzd:

Some people as yourself are just totally void of any kind of class. :mad:

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Lighten up, Ed. That wasn't a shot. I was just pointing out that your statement wasn't very accurate. I'm well aware that compatible morphs aren't necessarily the same such as the het. leucistics...

Don't be so paranoid.

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Lawrence, this was a very informative and interesting discussion until you decieded to take a shot at me.


Your a mod, right. :confuzd:

Some people as yourself are just totally void of any kind of class. :mad:

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Wow, I didnt see that as a shot, maybe playfully poking fun at the most. I dont think it was necessary to flip it around on Lawrence like that. But I guess when you're producing the numbers you do, things can get stressful at times ;)........ Life is to short to be stressed and paranoid, it's meant to be enjoyed..with that said, I'm going to listen to some Black Sabbath and relax ;)

The word is.............


All Pied lines came from Pete's first male Pied he bought from Brian Sharp. He also got a few hets to try and "prove out". There ARE NO OTHER "pied lines" out there - besides the ones I mention below with are not the normal Pieds. A normal Pied is well just a normal Pied - no fancy lines with it.


Anyways some of the good stuff I learned today:
:D

• Pete proved the Pied genetics out and produced them from the wild caught pied male and the possible het's he got. Pied's belong to Pete.
• RDR produced the Lavender Albino Piebald. That line belongs to Ralph Davis.
• The Snake Keeper & Roussis Reptiles produced the Pastel Piebald. That line belongs to TSK & RR.

They are the ONLY lines out there in the Pied world right now. There is NOT a "BOSCH Line" of Pieds. I was told Alan Bosch has done this before with other morphs of snakes just to sell them for more money then what they are really worth. :colbert:



I hope I made this clear enough since I was given a lot of information about them and there genetics today. BOY OH BOY! What a lot of information learned today! LOVE IT!

Thanks Allison! :sweeet:

Although I wouldn't consider a combo morph a "line" per se. Props to RDR, TSK and RR for coming out with them first, but I always considered a line to be a base morph which came from Africa.

Roussis Reptiles has produced different variations of piebalds..
Albino pied, spider pied, and pastel pied i think... here's the link to the site.

www.roussisreptiles.com



- Catie :sunny: