feeding question?? plese respond

Im New To The Whole " Snake World " I Have A Sugar Glider, A Bearded Dragon, And A Hedgehog And Thinking About Getting A Ball Python. I Was Wondering About Snake Sausages? My Mom Wont Let Me Get A Snake Unless I Feed It These Im Planing On Buying The Snake Farily New Born So It Isnt Use To The Mice. I Was Wondering If This Could Replace The Mice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exoticz

Im New To The Whole " Snake World " I Have A Sugar Glider, A Bearded Dragon, And A Hedgehog And Thinking About Getting A Ball Python. I Was Wondering About Snake Sausages? My Mom Wont Let Me Get A Snake Unless I Feed It These Im Planing On Buying The Snake Farily New Born So It Isnt Use To The Mice. I Was Wondering If This Could Replace The Mice.

---

:O WOW not sure what to say

If you are not able or willing to feed a BP with mice or rats then I would suggest you get another type of animal.

Please do not get a snake!!!! They eat rodents and I don't know anyone who has ever used those snake sausages. Any breeder / petstore will feed a snake rodents. Also breeders won't let their babies go unless they are a certin weight/size and eating rodents on their own with out a problem. Also force feeding a snake is not at all good either and should only be used as a last resort when snakes will not eat. You will just end up with a super stressed out snake who doesn't want to eat. Now if you get already frozen thawed rodents - then well thats a lot better then trying what you have stated above. Please do not try it the snake susages.

I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TO DO! .... Keep it as secret that you are feeding it mice... My mom thinks its nasty but hey... everyones gotta eat. You eat cows, shrimp, and chicken dont you? its basically the same thing. And as for replacement.. I usually go for all natural, so feeding my Kyna "sausages" is out of the question. If your mom thinks that feeding live mice to snakes is inhumane then tell her about frozen ones. All in all i really think that you should work this out with your mom. Try to reason with her about it.

( if all else fails you could say that feeding mealie worms to your hedgehog is wrong too) lol :rolleyes: ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Please do not get a snake!!!! They eat rodents and I don't know anyone who has ever used those snake sausages. Any breeder / petstore will feed a snake rodents. Also breeders won't let their babies go unless they are a certin weight/size and eating rodents on their own with out a problem. Also force feeding a snake is not at all good either and should only be used as a last resort when snakes will not eat. You will just end up with a super stressed out snake who doesn't want to eat. Now if you get already frozen thawed rodents - then well thats a lot better then trying what you have stated above. Please do not try it the snake susages.

---

I agree 110% about the no sausages. Until your mom says that feeding mice is ok, then yeah.. dont get a snake..

I've Talked To 2 Breeders In My Area And I've Done A Little Research On The Snake Sausgaes And I've Asked My Local Pet Store Who Caries Them And All It Is, Is That It Is Processed Mice Rapped Up In The Sausage Skin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exoticz

I've Talked To 2 Breeders In My Area And I've Done A Little Research On The Snake Sausgaes And I've Asked My Local Pet Store Who Caries Them And All It Is, Is That It Is Processed Mice Rapped Up In The Sausage Skin.

---

I still stand by what I said anyone that decides to have a snake of any kind, should be ready to feed what the snake eats: RODENTS whether it is live or F/T

Why would you take a snake if you are not prepare to feed him the proper food.

When choosing a pet it is not about what you want, but providing proper care to this animal. in the case of a BP you want a healthy, thriving BP that feed on rodent weekly and that is stress free.

i completly understand your postion that BP's should eat rodents but my mother will not allow it i have no clue why i will try to come to comprimse with her but this is the twenty first century and vertranial science is far the sausages have all the nessicary nutrients that you would get from a rodent i would deffinatly prefer to feed a rodent but my mother will not allow it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exoticz

but this is the twenty first century and vertranial science is far the sausages have all the nessicary nutrients that you would get from a rodent i would deffinatly prefer to feed a rodent but my mother will not allow it.

---

What are you going to do hook the sausage on a string and make it "dance" and hope the the snakes strikes it? Yeah the snake may strike at it out of fear but it's not going to grab and coil around it like it would do a rat/mouse. The snake is not going to know that sausage is food. It probably smells like a dog or cat treat, not like a rodent.

I can't find anything "good" about them. Everything I've read says pretty much the same:

Quote:

---

Snake Sausages

These are special processed food items that look like small sausages (like a roll of breakfast sausage in the plastic paper tube). They are offered the same as regular prey, sometimes warmed up, but should only be used as a last resort when snakes will not take natural prey.

---

Quote:

---

If you want the absolute best food for your snake they should be fed mice. You can buy frozen mice and thaw them in some hot water. This is good if you are afraid of live mice. It's also safer for the snake. Some people feed garter snakes on feeder fish. This isn't really a good diet though. The snakesausages hardly ever work and are not very good for the snakes. If you really don't want to feed it mice I wouldn't recommend getting a snake.

---

Quote:

---

"Snake sausages" are/were a failed experiment, in my opinion. I haven't seen them in any pet stores in years. Snakes need the moisture, roughage, and protein found in whole creatures - as they were created to eat pest animals to keep population explosions of mice & rats, etc.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exoticz

i completly understand your postion that BP's should eat rodents but my mother will not allow it i have no clue why i will try to come to comprimse with her but this is the twenty first century and vertranial science is far the sausages have all the nessicary nutrients that you would get from a rodent i would deffinatly prefer to feed a rodent but my mother will not allow it.

---

I think you missed my point :tricho:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

When choosing a pet it is not about what you want, but providing proper care to this animal. in the case of a BP you want a healthy, thriving BP that feed on rodent weekly and that is stress free.

---

Feeding Snake sausages is what you or what you mother want and this is not in the best interest of the BP all you will have is a stress, unhealthy BP and likely dead in no time to.

Why take an animal if you do not have it's best interest in mind?

this whole post was a huge mistake and im sorry but i will not follow your opinion on the snake sauages and the reviews that you had i was just at the pet store and the guy there owns 1 boa constrictor and 1 ball python he feeds both of his snakes these and has had them for years and im going to trust his experince opinion. im not trying to be rude because i want to feed it rodents but it is my mother that will not agree unless i absoulutly have to. a little help on how to convince her would be much appreciated. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exoticz

this whole post was a huge mistake and im sorry but i will not follow your opinion on the snake sauages and the reviews that you had i was just at the pet store and the guy there owns 1 boa constrictor and 1 ball python he feeds both of his snakes these and has had them for years and im going to trust his experince opinion. im not trying to be rude because i want to feed it rodents but it is my mother that will not agree unless i absoulutly have to. a little help on how to convince her would be much appreciated. lol

---

:rolleye2: Well if your mum does not agree then don't get a BP simple as that, it is just a selffish thing to have an animal just because it is WHAT YOU WANT, proving you do not care about the welfare of the animal.

Anyway you should do whatever the pet store owner says, I surely cannot compare to a pet store owner that obviously has an agenda of selling his product. And after all what do I know about Ball Pythons.

i dont know why you are so concered about the well being of animals thing about the well being of people. and why would i want to take your advice when you are being polite. i would rather take the pet stores advice.
and i do care about the animals well being if i didnt i wouldnt give a crap about what it ate and i wouldnt be on the computer posting this.

DON'T GET A SNAKE!!!!!!! If you want a pet that eats sausage get a dog or something. ALSO, IF THEY'RE JUST MICE WRAPPED IN SAUSAGE SKIN, THEN WHY NOT FEED IT MICE? Make me understand.

READ THE WHOLE FRICKEN POST i want to feed it rodents its my mom that wont let me shes skirmy about having live or dead mice in the house. and my dogs dont eat sausages they eat dog food.

Exoticz. You have to understand that as it stands you are not going to give your ball python a very good chance at survival.. You can't get mad cause your pride was smashed to bits. You have to understand that we all love our presious ball pythons very very dearly. and we want whats best for ball pythons all over the world. We are not attacking you. you have to understand that we are trying to help you and the ball pythons. Please just calm down and rationalise. think about what is in the best intrest of the snake. and as soon as you can care for the snake in ALL aspects then you will be able to have a happy and healthy ball python. Please reconsider getting a ball python until you are old enough that your mom doesnt have to make rules against it. Please. For the love of these little snakes.

your mom wont let you feed it mice. what's up with that? If you cant properly accomodate a snake DONT GET ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

ok i understand but since im sooo bull headed im goin to get one and im goin to feed in snake sausages so ha and i am rationlised


im leaving this website

Ummm you asked for ADVICE. We gave you the best advice. Take it or leave it.


Troll anyone?

you asked us to respond. and we did. You can't curse us for that. aka "feeding question?? PLESE RESPOND"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exoticz

ok i understand but since im sooo bull headed im goin to get one and im goin to feed in snake sausages so ha and i am rationlised


im leaving this website

---

Oh I am impress by the reputation point you left me

"shes a complete blunt headed now it all"

You come and ask questions, people here will tell you the truth and give you the facts, some answers you might like some you won't (Obviously). Why do we do it? For the sake of BP not to tell you what you want to hear.

im sry but you people just went completyl and utterly inxane didnt even but yourself in my shoes jsut immdealtly said no snake sausages are terrible and i understand for the snakes sake.

... My goodness... 14 year olds are really head strong...I hope that he soon realizes that is is making a mistake. before its too late..

Sometimes you have to be blunt to make sure you made a point. in this case Being blunt is completly justifiable. we arnt trying to be rude

Everyone here has treated you with respect and obviously the least you can do, is do the same, no need to be disrespectful because you do not like what you hear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exoticz

Im New To The Whole " Snake World " I Have A Sugar Glider, A Bearded Dragon, And A Hedgehog And Thinking About Getting A Ball Python. I Was Wondering About Snake Sausages? My Mom Wont Let Me Get A Snake Unless I Feed It These Im Planing On Buying The Snake Farily New Born So It Isnt Use To The Mice. I Was Wondering If This Could Replace The Mice.

---

Greetings and welcome to the forum,

I have never heard of these sausages and so, in all honestly I know nothing about them. What I wonder though,... if you explained to your mom that a ball python needs to eat mice or rats in their natural form instead of a "sausage" perhaps she would allow you to feed it rodents?

As we are a family friendly forum... I'd like everyone to take a deep breath before posting again...

in light,
Aleesha
Moderator

I have a ? for you please.Is it that your mom dose not want you to feed it live mice?Are just mice in general,the reason I ask is becuase you do know you can buy the mice frozen then you dont have to deal with a lot of the same things you do with live mice.And honestly they are really not that bad at all,you can unfreeze them in a little rubermaid container and im sure you can do this on your on so I would pitch this idea to your mom you can buy them at alot of pet stores now and i have even seen them sealed so you dont even now there is a mouse in it,so she would'nt even have to see it.But honestly would try to run that idea past her.As for what everyone is telling you they are not trying to be hard on you they just want you to have a great pet!But anyway Gl with mom.:sabduel:

My two cents:

Due respect, but I suspect this person is pulling our collective legs. The punctuation and ever-shifting capitalization and spelling on this person's posts suggests such. I know we're not supposed to insult anyone, but these posts, collectively, read like a drunkard's descent. Regardless, it's obvious that there's nothing anyone can do. There's plenty of information about ball pythons for any well-intentioned person on this Web site and several others. And, sadly, there are lots of snakes that die due to poor care from irresponsible owners. There's nothing anyone can do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exoticz

i was just at the pet store and the guy there owns 1 boa constrictor and 1 ball python he feeds both of his snakes these and has had them for years and im going to trust his experince opinion.

---

Hi exoticz,

Make him show you the ball python eating one.:)

O.K. Here's my experience with snake sausages ( I worked in a pet store when they first came out so had plenty of time to experiment with them).

At the time we had around 70 snakes in the shop of various species and sizes and got a load of them free to try and push them in the market. Out of everything we had a grand total of 2 snakes would eat them voluntarily (both king snakes and both "buckets"). In the end we used them to feed the monitors just to get rid of them. They are a good idea for force feeding in that there are no legs - but its tricky getting them not to burst.

They can also be used to "feed on" if an animal has the back end of a mouse going down as you can leave them joined by the skin to effortlessly get 3 of them into a snake at once.

However that is hardly ever a good thing to be doing to your snake either. :(

The main reason everyone is telling you that it's not going to be a good thing to try is the fact that ball pythons are "imprint feeders" to a great extent and can be tricky to switch between mice and rats nevermind onto something that looks totally alien.

Since the person you buy the snake from is ( and I gaurantee you this) NOT feeding his snakes on these ,relatively expensive, substitutes you are automatically facing an uphill struggle in all likelyhood just to get your pet to eat. This is hardly the start in the hobby you or your pet would wish for is it?

I assume you have checked how big they make these sausages (max in my day was small adult mouse sized) to see if they can do your snake its entire life and priced them out compared to rodents as an argument with your mum?.

The reason everyone seems so emphatic about this being a bad idea is that these are not new products nobody has ever tried - they have been trying to sell them for years and people have personally experienced that for 99% of people and snakes they simply do not work. They are designed and marketed with people with your mothers dislike of rodents in mind - not with snake nutrition or effectiveness as a food source.

I keep my frozen rodents in their own drawer in the freezer hidden within plastic tubs to avoid startling visitors ( out of sight out of mind :) ). Maybe doing the same would help persuade your family as long as you promised to maintain good hygene?

Incidently I'd be a lot more worried about a snake sausage ending up on my pizza cos mum was groggy one morning than I would be something with a fur coat and a tail. :P

I realise that your initial exposure to the site seemed a little strong ( I had a baptism of fire myself :cool: ) but they genuinely are giving you great advice from years of knowledge - and ,as previously mentioned, aren't trying to sell you anything. Sometimes on the internet we forget tone isn't always readily apparent and that what we assume is general knowledge after years in the hobby is not in fact general knowledge to everyone else. It's what makes forums such an exciting place to hang out. :D

I hope you stick it out and hang around - the amount of knowledge on this forum is truly stunning and should make your first ball python experience an absolute joy for both of you.


dr del

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JLC

Since the nutritional requirements of ball pythons are not known...you can't know which rodent is "more nutritious" for them. I'm unaware of any true scientific studies done on which might be better...but I've heard tons of anecdotal evidence that suggests proper feeding routines with either rodent provides the same growth potential.

---

While reading this thread I remembered reading this little tid bit. Now technically it can be used to argue on both sides. Who's to say that the sausage "IF" the snake will eat it won't be as nutritious as a mouse or rat. But then you could go on the other side of the fence and say well since we don't really know what a snake needs than how can they make a sausage that has what a snake needs.

Almost every other pet people own is fed a man made imitation of what it naturally ate in the wild.

I think the main point against this whole sausage deal would be will the snake eat it. What happens if you buy a snake and it won't take the sausage. Than that snake will definately suffer because you are not allowed to be feeding it rodents.

But to say the snake will suffer if IT IS eating the sausage is only an opinion and not a fact. Unless somebody knows of a snake that was fed sausages regularly and passed on. Then I'll take that statement back. But so far its only opinion based.

Someone did mention that they worked at a pet store and had used the sausages. The only negative thing was that only 2 snakes would eat the sausages. The sausages were then fed to monitors and he never mentioned any ill effects.

If the whole problem is your mom doesn't like the idea of rodents in the house. What about buying F/T mice or rats on the day of feedings. That way you're never storing mice in the freezer or having to keep live ones.

I hope that helps. Don't mean to stir the pot. But I'm taking an ethics course for my civil engineering degree. Its all about discussing hot topics and seeing both sides and I had a 3 hour debate so i'm still coming down. Just thought I'd fight for the little guy.

But that said I feed F/T rats and would never try the sausage. You might just have to wait till you're out of the house to get a BP like I had to.

Eat one of the sausages, than ask yourself, "is this what i want to do"

= )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exoticz

I've Talked To 2 Breeders In My Area And I've Done A Little Research On The Snake Sausgaes And I've Asked My Local Pet Store Who Caries Them And All It Is, Is That It Is Processed Mice Rapped Up In The Sausage Skin.

---

I doubt that you'd be able to get a ball python to recognize it as prey. If you care about providing the best care possible to a future pet, and don't want to watch it die a slow and painful death of starvation because you can only feed it an unnatural food item, don't get a ball python, or any other snake that eats rodents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by exoticz

this whole post was a huge mistake and im sorry but i will not follow your opinion on the snake sauages and the reviews that you had i was just at the pet store and the guy there owns 1 boa constrictor and 1 ball python he feeds both of his snakes these and has had them for years and im going to trust his experince opinion. im not trying to be rude because i want to feed it rodents but it is my mother that will not agree unless i absoulutly have to. a little help on how to convince her would be much appreciated. lol

---

OK, so why did you ask, if you're not going to follow our advice.

This guy has ONE ball python and ONE boa constrictor vs. the members here who have 10, 20 up to 1000 ball pythons each trying to advise you - but your pet store guy knows better?

I'm sorry, but there comes a time when you have to put the welfare of the animal before your desires. You are obviously a young person (since you live at home) and it's often hard to put things off, when we want instant gratification.

You want a ball python so badly, that you're willing to believe a pet shop worker with just two snakes, over the experience of members here who collectively have worked with hundreds if not thousands of these animals that tell you it's a bad idea.

Bottom line, if you can't feed rodents, you should wait until you are an adult and have your own home before you get a carnivorous snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by borat1

Eat one of the sausages, than ask yourself, "is this what i want to do"

= )

---

I eat sausage all the time. Mind you its made of deer, elk, moose, cow, or pig but thats the type of animals I eat. Now if I did eat mice or rat. I'd probably eat a rat sausage too. :sabduel:

Here's a thought if you really really have to have a BP and really really have to feed it sausages. Why not go to the pet store or where ever you're going to buy the snake from and ask that the next feeding session it be fed a sausage and if you can witness 2 feeding sessions where it eats these sausage things well then you might be in the clear.

Cause like I said earlier nobody truly knows what a BP needs nutritional wise so with people saying that it will suffer a slow death could be wrong.

What the true problem is will the snake eat it. BP's can be picky eaters and many times people on this forum have there snakes go off feeding only to have to try everything they can to get them back on. eg. Mice, rats, varying the size, F/T and live, a gerbil, maybe even a african soft furred rat.

So if you only have one option of sausages what will you do if the BP won't take it?

hmmm... i'm pondering here folks. since ball pythons don't see their prey they instead see the heat signature... and sometimes mistake us for prey when they are hungry and we are scented with prey items...

wouldn't it merely be a matter of scent?

IF the sausage smells like rats or mice (depending on what the snake eats) then, in theory wouldn't the snake strike and eat?

we do the "i'm alive eat me" dance with f/t so why not the same dance with a sausage???

i'm done pondering... need coffee...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

we do the "i'm alive eat me" dance with f/t so why not the same dance with a sausage???

---

I feed F/T as well but no dance and my BPs all strike, constrict, and swallow. So I agree if its warm and smells like a rat he might take it. Might need the dance may not.

Hi,


It only took us about 6 weeks to use up the sausages we had (monitors eat a fair bit :) ) but we certainly didn't see any bad effects.

I'm not aware of any long term studies of them but if they trully are minced up whole mice then there shouldn't be any nutritional problems with them I'd have thought. We did notice the lack of hair in the stools but it's not a particularly important point ( I think - feel free to correct me ). I would also check out the packet for "addatives". I think I'll try and find a decent nutritional/ ingredient list for these things is I get time later.

It's been a long time so I can't remember what the sausage "skins" are - if it has an unusual odour it may be one of the reasons they were refused maybe? :confused:

If the snake he plans on buying can be persuaded to eat them, demonstrably, before he buys it then it might work out ok. I was just not convinced that will be likely ( there's always the 1%'ers ). It does complicate/ reduce the buying procedure a little though and when the snake gets big enough for small rats it could be horrendously expensive to feed.


Someone somewhere must have tried these things and posted results of long term use by now. With any luck it can be found to answer the intresting points raised so far in this thread.


dr del

imo, predators should eat what they are designed for!:snake:


anyone that has given a baby it's first meal can tell you that rodents are on the menu!! :rat:

leave the jimmy dean and johnsonville's to us. :tongue2: :chew: :hungry:


vaughn

Hi again,


Managed to find a little info about the sausages on the web but nothing scientific.

firstly a link to the product page on the manufacturers site (which is down for redesigning - made this a lil tricky :twisted: );

http://www.t-rexproducts.com/Dynamic...70201&series=1

the ingredients list is of particular interest - according to a forum thread linked later it contains every mouse part apart from fur and intestines but I have no idea if ash is good or bad.

Ingredients:
Meat & Meat Derivatives

And here is the link to the product they recomend to try and persuade reluctant feeders to eat them ( we never tried this in the shop so no clue);

http://www.t-rexproducts.com/Dynamic...80400&series=1

Ingredients:
Distilled Water, nature identical mouse flavor, potassium, sodium benzoate

I'm wondering if anyone has ever used this for anything in the past? reluctant feeders etc.

And three forum threads on Cathy Loves site, they were the best I could find but I trust her opinion and she would probably have noted any long term ill-effects in her book. One of the threads refers to liver damage but (my interpretation) this seems unproven and less worrying than the skin of the sausage being less digestible than I expected.

Here are the links to the forum threads (in no particular order);

[mods please remove these if it is not allowed ]

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14298

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...steak+sausages

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/sho...steak+sausages


And finally I had a heck of a time finding them for sale anywhere but this page might give you an idea of the prices - the rat pack contains 2 and costs $9.99!!!!! :eek: add in the mouse scent and these things arent cheap.

http://www.reptilesource.com/?frozen...eak%20Sausages

[again if this isn't allowed could a kind mod please delete? - I figured since they didnt have any it probably didn't count as advertising for them :cool: ]


Hope this helps answer a few questions.


dr del

i think my main concern would be the availability.

my second concern would be the health issues... although i have no idea if they are valid or not.

thanks for all your hard work dr. del... nice of you to take so much time to investigate this.

Dr Del,

I saw your post highly informative. $10 for two sausages?!?! They are expensive and unnatural.... ewww two of my least favorite things....
but hey look on the bright side..exoticz mom may get sick of paying $10 bucks everyother week... Life seems to work out in strange ways.. *optimist*
(is an organic hippy) :peace: