Scale/belly Rot

I don't know how this happened. Darby - my 10-yr-old male - hibernated as usual from about the 2nd week of November until just a few days ago. He's done this every year since he was 2 - goes into his hide, won't come out, refuses to feed for about 10 weeks. During that time, I make sure the cage stays clean and waste free and that there's fresh water should he want it. I maintain the temp at a pretty fixed 83 and the humidity at about 65.

This year followed the same pattern. When he poked his head out and came out for water yesterday, I knew he'd be ready for food today. So, I decided to do a thorough clean of the cage before feeding him - change the substrate, clean the glass, etc, which I don't do while he's hibernating. In picking him up and taking him out, I discovered that he'd had an incomplete shed while hibernating (yes, I know I should have checked more thoroughly, but I'm pregnant and was on mandatory bed rest until a week ago - my husband thought the shed was fine) and has crusty brown bumps extending about 6 inches from his tail upwards- it's rather nasty looking.

I immediately called the only vet in my area who handles snakes. He said it sounded like scale or belly rot and advised me to get rid of the bark substrate and put Darby on newspaper or paper towel, to increase the heat (which I would have done anyhow) and increase the humidity, and to provide a larger hide. He also had me schedule and appt. for Darby on Thursday. I did all that, and I also proceeded with feeding him, and he fed well.

I like this vet, but I know that I'm one of a very few people whom he sees with snakes, so he's by no means a big expert. I'm just wondering if there's something else I should be doing that someone can advise me on? Is there anything I can get OTC that I can apply? Any all natural oil or spray that might help him?

And, can anyone make any guesses as to why this happened? I changed the location of Darby's tank back in September, but I've monitored the heat/humidity factor very carefully since then to make sure it was stable. Calvin, who's in the tank next to him, hasn't had any problems.

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Originally Posted by mj_romo

I don't know how this happened. Darby - my 10-yr-old male - hibernated as usual from about the 2nd week of November until just a few days ago. He's done this every year since he was 2 - goes into his hide, won't come out, refuses to feed for about 10 weeks. During that time, I make sure the cage stays clean and waste free and that there's fresh water should he want it. I maintain the temp at a pretty fixed 83 and the humidity at about 65.

This year followed the same pattern. When he poked his head out and came out for water yesterday, I knew he'd be ready for food today. So, I decided to do a thorough clean of the cage before feeding him - change the substrate, clean the glass, etc, which I don't do while he's hibernating. In picking him up and taking him out, I discovered that he'd had an incomplete shed while hibernating (yes, I know I should have checked more thoroughly, but I'm pregnant and was on mandatory bed rest until a week ago - my husband thought the shed was fine) and has crusty brown bumps extending about 6 inches from his tail upwards- it's rather nasty looking.

I immediately called the only vet in my area who handles snakes. He said it sounded like scale or belly rot and advised me to get rid of the bark substrate and put Darby on newspaper or paper towel, to increase the heat (which I would have done anyhow) and increase the humidity, and to provide a larger hide. He also had me schedule and appt. for Darby on Thursday. I did all that, and I also proceeded with feeding him, and he fed well.

I like this vet, but I know that I'm one of a very few people whom he sees with snakes, so he's by no means a big expert. I'm just wondering if there's something else I should be doing that someone can advise me on? Is there anything I can get OTC that I can apply? Any all natural oil or spray that might help him?

And, can anyone make any guesses as to why this happened? I changed the location of Darby's tank back in September, but I've monitored the heat/humidity factor very carefully since then to make sure it was stable. Calvin, who's in the tank next to him, hasn't had any problems.

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Not being rude here but why is the temp only 83? I hope thats not the high as his temps are.In order for ball pythons to thrive the hot side temp needs to be 90ish.The only way i know of scale rot forming is that the snake is kept in to "wet" of conditions.Is it possible he spilled his water bowl or someone might have sprayed him to much? Please do not ever use a oil spray or anything as it might just kill your snake because its not a good thing for them.

Belly rot is caused by an overexposure to moisture. 50-60 percent humidity at all times is a must. In shed I keep the humidity at 70-75%. I don't think the 65% humidity would have caused it but I'm not a vet so I can't tell you for sure. Also unless you are breeding the temps should be a constant 92-94 hot side and 82-84 cool side all year round. Your vet will know what they are doing as far as treating the ailment. Good luck and I hope he gets better for you!

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Originally Posted by mj_romo

I don't know how this happened. Darby - my 10-yr-old male - hibernated as usual from about the 2nd week of November until just a few days ago. He's done this every year since he was 2 - goes into his hide, won't come out, refuses to feed for about 10 weeks. During that time, I make sure the cage stays clean and waste free and that there's fresh water should he want it. I maintain the temp at a pretty fixed 83 and the humidity at about 65.

This year followed the same pattern. When he poked his head out and came out for water yesterday, I knew he'd be ready for food today. So, I decided to do a thorough clean of the cage before feeding him - change the substrate, clean the glass, etc, which I don't do while he's hibernating. In picking him up and taking him out, I discovered that he'd had an incomplete shed while hibernating (yes, I know I should have checked more thoroughly, but I'm pregnant and was on mandatory bed rest until a week ago - my husband thought the shed was fine) and has crusty brown bumps extending about 6 inches from his tail upwards- it's rather nasty looking.

I immediately called the only vet in my area who handles snakes. He said it sounded like scale or belly rot and advised me to get rid of the bark substrate and put Darby on newspaper or paper towel, to increase the heat (which I would have done anyhow) and increase the humidity, and to provide a larger hide. He also had me schedule and appt. for Darby on Thursday. I did all that, and I also proceeded with feeding him, and he fed well.

I like this vet, but I know that I'm one of a very few people whom he sees with snakes, so he's by no means a big expert. I'm just wondering if there's something else I should be doing that someone can advise me on? Is there anything I can get OTC that I can apply? Any all natural oil or spray that might help him?

And, can anyone make any guesses as to why this happened? I changed the location of Darby's tank back in September, but I've monitored the heat/humidity factor very carefully since then to make sure it was stable. Calvin, who's in the tank next to him, hasn't had any problems.

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I missed a few things.I would NOT increase the humidity as it will make the scale rot areas worse(if it is scale rot).I would like to know how your vet thinks getting a larger hide will make any differances here:confused: .I think a new vet is in order here just by his incorrect advice he has given you.

BP don’t hibernate.

83 as for the all enclosure is 83?

Not sure how you measure your temps but you need an accurate digital thermometer measuring the temp at the bottom of the enclosure.

Not sure how you provide heat but best is to provide belly heat

BP needs gradiant temp 80-84 on the cool side and 90-94 on the warm side and often going off feed comes from husbandary issues.

Humidity should be between 50%-60%

How often do you clean his enclosure? Scale rot is often the result of high humidity damp substrate or filthy enclosure.

Either way you need to make an appointment to an herp vet another one http://www.arav.org/USMembers.htm

Right now you need to replace your substrate by some paper towel get the temperature up and proper as mentioned above and reduce the humidity level

What you can do while waiting for an appointment is to clean up the with betadine and then apply anti-bacterial ointment (Make sure it does not contain pain killer)

as others have said, definitely do NOT increase the humidity. you want the cage to be as clean and as dry as possible (thus the newsprint or paper towel substrate). if your snake tends to get in or soak in his bowl, use a smaller one that he cannot get into for now. cover the affected area with a light film of equate brand triple antibiotic ointment--that stuff is fabulous!

Thank you all for the advice. I thought increasing the humidity sounded kinda fishy.

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I think a new vet is in order here just by his incorrect advice he has given you.

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I also double-checked the herp-vet site to make sure I hadn't missed someone, but the one listed in my area is the one I talked to and the only one within a 90-minute drive.

Like I also said, I've never had this problem before and I can't figure out what caused it. My other snake is 12, this one is 10, and I've never had a problem like this. The only thing that has changed is the location of where they're kept in the house, and the location now isn't anywhere near as drafty as the previous location.

I monitor the temps very carefully and I have an accurate digital themometer. I adjust the temp seasonally so it ranges from 95 in the summer to 82 in the winter. Along with that, there's a basking spot that gets about 8 degrees warmer than the overall tank temp.

I clean out the waste as soon as they produce it. I clean the tanks thoroughly once a month. I make sure there aren't any water spills. I'm stumped.

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Originally Posted by mj_romo

I monitor the temps very carefully and I have an accurate digital themometer. I adjust the temp seasonally so it ranges from 95 in the summer to 82 in the winter. Along with that, there's a basking spot that gets about 8 degrees warmer than the overall tank temp.

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Why? It should be 92-94 on the warm side and 82-84 on the cool side year round.

Ball pythons do not brumate, I suspect that he "hibernates" because he's being kept at too cool conditions in the winter. When you go see the vet, it probably wouldn't hurt to have him also run a culture to make sure he doesn't have a respiratory infection as a result of being cooled in the winter.

It doesn't sound to me like you breed your ball pythons, and cooling in the winter is really only a function of breeding, and even then, some breeders don't cool at all.

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Originally Posted by mj_romo

so it ranges from 95 in the summer to 82 in the winter.

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Again you talk about one temp during the winter and one during the summer when you need to have gradient temp 90-94 and 80-84 year around unless you are cooling for breeding.

It is important to provide a cool side and a warm side and I highly suspect that once your BP is treated and if you provide proper husbandry your BP will resume feeding.

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Originally Posted by mj_romo

Thank you all for the advice. I thought increasing the humidity sounded kinda fishy.



I also double-checked the herp-vet site to make sure I hadn't missed someone, but the one listed in my area is the one I talked to and the only one within a 90-minute drive.

Like I also said, I've never had this problem before and I can't figure out what caused it. My other snake is 12, this one is 10, and I've never had a problem like this. The only thing that has changed is the location of where they're kept in the house, and the location now isn't anywhere near as drafty as the previous location.

I monitor the temps very carefully and I have an accurate digital themometer. I adjust the temp seasonally so it ranges from 95 in the summer to 82 in the winter. Along with that, there's a basking spot that gets about 8 degrees warmer than the overall tank temp.

I clean out the waste as soon as they produce it. I clean the tanks thoroughly once a month. I make sure there aren't any water spills. I'm stumped.

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i dont know what to tell you, except try to find a better vet. Try contacting people on this site that could be from your area, and ask who they use. There are probably some good vets around, just not listed in your area.

I hope everything works out. keep us posted. and good luck with your new baby :)

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Originally Posted by mj_romo

Thank you all for the advice. I thought increasing the humidity sounded kinda fishy.



I also double-checked the herp-vet site to make sure I hadn't missed someone, but the one listed in my area is the one I talked to and the only one within a 90-minute drive.

Like I also said, I've never had this problem before and I can't figure out what caused it. My other snake is 12, this one is 10, and I've never had a problem like this. The only thing that has changed is the location of where they're kept in the house, and the location now isn't anywhere near as drafty as the previous location.

I monitor the temps very carefully and I have an accurate digital themometer. I adjust the temp seasonally so it ranges from 95 in the summer to 82 in the winter. Along with that, there's a basking spot that gets about 8 degrees warmer than the overall tank temp.

I clean out the waste as soon as they produce it. I clean the tanks thoroughly once a month. I make sure there aren't any water spills. I'm stumped.

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Thats sad that you do not have a good real reptile vet in your area :( .Why are you changing his temps? Something is wrong because if he does infact have scale rot he did not get it over night.How far is the next vet? I would drive a little extra distance to have my snakes seen by a real reptile vet.Like i said not being rude towards yourself just confused as to why that "vet" is playing guess games or give incorrect advice about a animal he does not know about.Keep us posted

I increased the temp by about 5 degrees - bringing it up to 87 in Darby's cage. I put a smaller water bowl in there, although I don't think that'll be a problem because he's never been a soaker like Calvin. We also applied the triple antibiotic cream, but how often should we apply it?

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Why are you changing his temps?

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I let the temps change seasonally because when I first got Calvin, I knew a herpetologist at the local zoo who helped me set everything up the way they control climate for their snakes. He was also the one who told me it was perfectly normal for snakes to go off their feed for a while in the cooler months, and I've got books that state the same thing, so I was never concerned about it. Darby going off his feed for 10 weeks between November and January never caused any weight or hydration issues, and it never caused any shedding issues.

I think the environment outside the cage must be the problem, but I can't figure out how.

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Thats sad that you do not have a good real reptile vet in your area. How far is the next vet?

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I wish I could take him to the next vet, but it's at least a 90 minute drive - without any traffic - which is highly unlikely. My husband and I figured we'd be lucky if I could make it in 2 hours, and at 35 weeks pregnant, I simply can't do that, and my husband is disabled and can't drive. I will simply have to keep my fingers crossed that the vet I'm seeing on Thursday isn't as cavalier in person as he seems to be on the phone.

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Originally Posted by mj_romo

I increased the temp by about 5 degrees - bringing it up to 87 in Darby's cage. I put a smaller water bowl in there, although I don't think that'll be a problem because he's never been a soaker like Calvin. We also applied the triple antibiotic cream, but how often should we apply it?



I let the temps change seasonally because when I first got Calvin, I knew a herpetologist at the local zoo who helped me set everything up the way they control climate for their snakes. He was also the one who told me it was perfectly normal for snakes to go off their feed for a while in the cooler months, and I've got books that state the same thing, so I was never concerned about it. Darby going off his feed for 10 weeks between November and January never caused any weight or hydration issues, and it never caused any shedding issues.

I think the environment outside the cage must be the problem, but I can't figure out how.



I wish I could take him to the next vet, but it's at least a 90 minute drive - without any traffic - which is highly unlikely. My husband and I figured we'd be lucky if I could make it in 2 hours, and at 35 weeks pregnant, I simply can't do that, and my husband is disabled and can't drive. I will simply have to keep my fingers crossed that the vet I'm seeing on Thursday isn't as cavalier in person as he seems to be on the phone.

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I totaly understand your reason for not being able to drive to the next vet.If the vet you are seeing gives you any more incorrect info kindly inform him to become a member here and we will educate him :) .