Got the fish tank!

We picked up a fish tank today from someone on freecycle who was moving and couldnt keep them any more. Its a 20 gallon tank with several different fish, some gouramis (sp?) tetras, hatchet fish, a couple plecos, and a few more. She had drained alot of the water out for transportation and when we got home and added new water a few fish started to die. We lost a few tetras and a big pleco (he was my favorite). Could the new water be the cause of the dead fish?

Ive never owned fish and my mom owned fish when she was a kid (thing were alot different then) and we were told to just make sure the new water was the same temp and the water in the tank. Also the fish were all pretty much hagning out at the top of the tank for a long time, my mom thinks it might be from a lack of oxygen, so I added a tube bubble thing and thay all seem to be ok now, except for 2 of the gouramis (sp?) and the hatchet fish. Any help?

I know this is going to sound offensive, but did you add dechlorinater to the new water? Also, just for future reference, unless the tank is WAY over due for a partial water change, I've always been told to save as much as the original water, and to keep the substrate wet to "seed" the tank when you move it. Your tank is going to cycle again... What about temperature? Fish are very prone to temp shock.... Just a few things that came to mind. What are your Gourami's doing that makes you think they are not well? Best o' luck!

Just re-read.... I guess the new water was the right temp?!?! lol I've only heard of them hitting the top for air, as your mother thought! Hope someone can bring you some better advice!!!

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Originally Posted by Laooda

I know this is going to sound offensive, but did you add dechlorinater to the new water? Also, just for future reference, unless the tank is WAY over due for a partial water change, I've always been told to save as much as the original water, and to keep the substrate wet to "seed" the tank when you move it. Your tank is going to cycle again... What about temperature? Fish are very prone to temp shock.... Just a few things that came to mind. What are your Gourami's doing that makes you think they are not well? Best o' luck!

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we didnt add dechlorinator to the new water as we were told not too, she said shes moved them several times before and did the exact same thing. When we went to pick them up, it was just under half full with the water. I had brought a bucket so I could take the water out and save it for when we got here but she had already drained alot of the water. We have a heater in there, we also had a light on as she told us that was absolutely a must have for the live plants but after a quick goggle search I believe the fish were stressed from the bright light. I turned off the light and it looks to be helping very well. 2 of the gouramis were hanging around the top with their mouths out of the water for a bit, then one started to lay on its side on the bottom, but since ive turned the light off they all seem better?

the only thing that i know more about then snakes..... is fish. The temp of the water that was added back into the tank could have stressed out the fish and caused them to die. The pleco prolly did not die from that because they can live a substantial time out of water, and they are very hardy. The bright light theory is incorrect because i have a 175w metal halide on my saltwater tank along with a bunch of other lights also and my fish are fine. How long were the fish in the bucketts being transported???

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Originally Posted by Het4Something

the only thing that i know more about then snakes..... is fish. The temp of the water that was added back into the tank could have stressed out the fish and caused them to die. The pleco prolly did not die from that because they can live a substantial time out of water, and they are very hardy. The bright light theory is incorrect because i have a 175w metal halide on my saltwater tank along with a bunch of other lights also and my fish are fine. How long were the fish in the bucketts being transported???

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The temp of the new water was pretty much the same as the old water, I used a temp gun to keep check. Ive read when you bring in a new fish into a new place then bright lights could probably stress them out, again thats what ive been told and read. The fish were in about 5 inches of water in the tank for about 45 minutes.

chlorine is probably the culprit.
different homes can have different levels in their water supply.
what one person can get away with at their home may kill fish in another home.

unless you are on a private well with no chemicals, you need to add dechlorinator :)

good luck! aquarium keeping is one of my true passions in life - I hope once you get the startup bumps ironed out you find it as rewarding as I do :)

interesting about the light....

this is a long shot but is there any chance that the light is allowing electricity to enter the water? stray voltage has given more than a few aquarists a shock when they least expect it :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by worldcupkeeper

We picked up a fish tank today from someone on freecycle who was moving and couldnt keep them any more. Its a 20 gallon tank with several different fish, some gouramis (sp?) tetras, hatchet fish, a couple plecos, and a few more. She had drained alot of the water out for transportation and when we got home and added new water a few fish started to die. We lost a few tetras and a big pleco (he was my favorite). Could the new water be the cause of the dead fish?

Ive never owned fish and my mom owned fish when she was a kid (thing were alot different then) and we were told to just make sure the new water was the same temp and the water in the tank. Also the fish were all pretty much hagning out at the top of the tank for a long time, my mom thinks it might be from a lack of oxygen, so I added a tube bubble thing and thay all seem to be ok now, except for 2 of the gouramis (sp?) and the hatchet fish. Any help?

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The new waters composition was totally different from the old water. You basically did a mass water change. Changing the parameters that severely could cause a dies off. The new water was not conditioned as the old was.

Hatchet fish stay at the top so that would be normal for them.

From the sound of it, that tank had a massive bioload. Basically they were most likely living in sub par water conditions. By changing it, you shocked their systems with the "clean" water.

Tetras can be very sensitive to any changes depending upon what type they are.

My advice would be to add some cycle to the tank and start allowing the beneficial bacteria to grow in the new water. Do not add any new fish and monitor your ammo. Amquel works good at neutralizing ammo relatively quick.

I don't see where you posted about a filter? That would be a must for the load that tank is carrying. A bubble does not actually add air to the tank but rather disrupts the surface tension allowing gas exhange.

As far as lighting goes, I used to have a 20 gallon tall with hard corals in it and some perculas. That tank was lit by a 250 watt 12K MH bulb. The fish had no problems with the intensity of the lighting.

As far as electrical shocks, the malfunctioning item would need to be in the tank and boy you would know when it goes bad. I had a Rio PH go bad once and man, you can feel the current as soon as you touch the water.

Good luck with the tank. Let it stabilize, and be patient, and you'll find it will be a very rewarding addition.

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Originally Posted by SPJ

From the sound of it, that tank had a massive bioload. Basically they were most likely living in sub par water conditions. By changing it, you shocked their systems with the "clean" water.

Tetras can be very sensitive to any changes depending upon what type they are.

My advice would be to add some cycle to the tank and start allowing the beneficial bacteria to grow in the new water. Do not add any new fish and monitor your ammo. Amquel works good at neutralizing ammo relatively quick.

I don't see where you posted about a filter? That would be a must for the load that tank is carrying. A bubble does not actually add air to the tank but rather disrupts the surface tension allowing gas exhange.

As far as lighting goes, I used to have a 20 gallon tall with hard corals in it and some perculas. That tank was lit by a 250 watt 12K MH bulb. The fish had no problems with the intensity of the lighting.

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Now that you mention it, the water that was in there was VERY dirty, when we moved it out into the car, from the sloshing around it was very dark brown and you couldnt see anything. Weve got a filter that came with it, I think its called a Pengiun Bio Wheel 100 or something like that. We turned the light on for a little while and everyonw was fine, so I think it might be from the water change.

The only thing i did not see mentioned was when you place the fish in "new" water i always floated them in plastic fish bags until they were used to the temp change.Then i transfered a little water in the bag from the tank and after about 20 minutes i released the fish.I only lost one swordtail during 15+yrs of having a tank.You are making me miss my tank setup even more now :( :P .

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Originally Posted by joepythons

The only thing i did not see mentioned was when you place the fish in "new" water i always floated them in plastic fish bags until they were used to the temp change.Then i transfered a little water in the bag from the tank and after about 20 minutes i released the fish.I only lost one swordtail during 15+yrs of having a tank.You are making me miss my tank setup even more now :( :P .

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the fish were already in the tank when we brought them home. We just added water to fill it back up. There was only about 4-5 inches of water in there with them when we got them.

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Originally Posted by worldcupkeeper

the fish were already in the tank when we brought them home. We just added water to fill it back up. There was only about 4-5 inches of water in there with them when we got them.

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Aric,i hope you dont get any stress leaks from the seems between the glass.It happens when you move a tank with water in it.When you add large amounts of water like you did here its a good idea to float the fish in bags until they adjust to the "new" temps.You might not have lost a fish at all.It sounds like the person you got the tank from never cleaned it :mad: .Congrats on the new tank :cool:

If the water was filthy, the fish adapted to the deteriorating conditions over time. They didn't die from bad conditions because it was not a sudden change. Basically doing a 90% water change shocked their systems. The change in water parameters was too great too fast.


You can get by with large water changes IF the fish are used to it and the water going in matches the water going out.

I recently moved a 72 gallon bowfront when we had the living room redone. I emptied the tank, changed out the gravel, replaced the media, and replaced ALL of the water except for what was in the rubbermaid tub the fish were in temporarily. I didn't lose a single one since I do large weekly water changes anyway and new water isn't too far off from the makeup of the old water. I also ran the filter off the side of the tub.

Joe brings up a good point though. Watch the tank for leaks. They are only held together by the silicone in the joints (unless it is an acrylic tank) and moving one with even a small amount of water in it could cause the joints to fail and leak.

someone mentioned they only lost one fish in 15 years of keeping fish...

i find that VERY hard to believe... most fish don't even live that long. (most aquarium fish last 10 years in the absolute best of circumstances).

anyways... i would think that stress probably killed them more than adding clean water. fish don't like massive water changes (over 50%) but if their water is horrid... they thrive in clean water... (kinda like saying if we live with pollution we won't fair well in a pollution free vacation spot)

pick yourself up a python or gravel vac (python attaches to the faucet - gravel vac is done into a bucket) so you can perform weekly water changes of about 1.5"

remember... only pure water evaporates... so as the water evaporates and you replace it... this is NOT considered a water change :P

and joe was totally right about the stress to your tank... never move a tank (even across the room) with water in it. ;)

and hey... you have lots of avid fish hobbiests here *raises hand* so don't hesitate to ask for info.

My main concern throughout the whole moveing the tank thing was that it would start to leak, but its not leaking so far (crosses fingers). Believe me, ill NEVER move another tank with water in it anywhere, from now on ALL the water will come out, for the sake of the tank and for the sake of my arms:cool: (man that was HEAVY to move:) ) Where do you suggest getting an gravel vac? The gravel in there needs a massive cleaning or just new gravel.

This morning all the fish that are in there look like they are doing very well, I really dont know what all are in there at the moment but I hope I can get some pics.:D

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

someone mentioned they only lost one fish in 15 years of keeping fish...

i find that VERY hard to believe... most fish don't even live that long. (most aquarium fish last 10 years in the absolute best of circumstances).

anyways... i would think that stress probably killed them more than adding clean water. fish don't like massive water changes (over 50%) but if their water is horrid... they thrive in clean water... (kinda like saying if we live with pollution we won't fair well in a pollution free vacation spot)

pick yourself up a python or gravel vac (python attaches to the faucet - gravel vac is done into a bucket) so you can perform weekly water changes of about 1.5"

remember... only pure water evaporates... so as the water evaporates and you replace it... this is NOT considered a water change :P

and joe was totally right about the stress to your tank... never move a tank (even across the room) with water in it. ;)

and hey... you have lots of avid fish hobbiests here *raises hand* so don't hesitate to ask for info.

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Aleesha,i meant i only lost 1 fish when i cleaned out the tank,not just 1 in 15yrs.I lost a few swordtail males because the dummies liked to jump out of the small gap between the lid and the filter unit :( .I had so many livebearers(guppies,mollies and such) i started 2 pet stores with fish when they first opened up :D .

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Originally Posted by worldcupkeeper

My main concern throughout the whole moveing the tank thing was that it would start to leak, but its not leaking so far (crosses fingers). Believe me, ill NEVER move another tank with water in it anywhere, from now on ALL the water will come out, for the sake of the tank and for the sake of my arms:cool: (man that was HEAVY to move:) ) Where do you suggest getting an gravel vac? The gravel in there needs a massive cleaning or just new gravel.

This morning all the fish that are in there look like they are doing very well, I really dont know what all are in there at the moment but I hope I can get some pics.:D

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Aric,you should be able to find the gravel vac at any pet store.I bet it was HEAVY as each gallon of water weighs 8 pounds then add the gravel :eek: .Watch your water level as it will be your first clue of a possible leak,a little will evaporate but not in serious quantities.

well, I just looked through the stuff that came with the tank and there was a gravel vac in there.

The tank still looks pretty good leak wise.

Ive also got another question, the front of the tank looks like its got a bunch of calcium buildup on it. The lady we got them from said she could not figure out what is was or how to get it off. Any suggestions on how to clean in, ive tried a sponge and a little magnetic cleaning (one side goes on the outside and one on the inside of the tank, one side is corse and the other is smooth) thing that came with the tank.

So far ive been reasearching what fish we have in there and it looks like we have 1 Gold Gourami, 2 pearl Gouramis, im guessing a Otocinclus catfish, 3 black neon tetras, I think an Albino Cherry Barb, and a I think a Cherry Barb. Never knew identifying fish was so hard when you dont really know much about them:).

You have an otto cat in there? Are you sure it's an Otto? Little brown thing with a stripe on the side? Is it no bigger than an inch long? That's about max size for them.

If so, congrats. They are VERY tough to find around here and are great at keeping diatoms under control if your water is high in silicate.


This should help you ID fish.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/fresh.shtml

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Originally Posted by SPJ

You have an otto cat in there? Are you sure it's an Otto? Little brown thing with a stripe on the side? Is it no bigger than an inch long? That's about max size for them.

If so, congrats. They are VERY tough to find around here and are great at keeping diatoms under control if your water is high in silicate.

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Well im sure but not that sure (if that makes sense:rolleyes: ) Its really small, only about an inch long, its got the stripe, hes really hard to find, being so small and lots of plants in there, you really never know where he is:).

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Originally Posted by SPJ

This should help you ID fish.
http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/fresh.shtml

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Thanks for the link, This is what the little guy looks like. Not my pic but thats exactly what he looks like.

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Originally Posted by worldcupkeeper

Well im sure but not that sure (if that makes sense:rolleyes: ) Its really small, only about an inch long, its got the stripe, hes really hard to find, being so small and lots of plants in there, you really never know where he is:).

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Sounds like an Otto. :D I used to have half a dozen of them but never actually saw them except for brief times when they would dart to a different plant. Eventually my pictus cat decided they tasted good.:eek:

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Originally Posted by worldcupkeeper

Thanks for the link, This is what the little guy looks like. Not my pic but thats exactly what he looks like.

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That's an Otto. Tiny little things.:D

Yep, I also had an Oto around for quite some time, until one of my Banjo Catfish decided he might taste good... Turds. Still have my albino bushynose pleco though! :)

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Sounds like an Otto. :D I used to have half a dozen of them but never actually saw them except for brief times when they would dart to a different plant. Eventually my pictus cat decided they tasted good.:eek:

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yeah he like to dart from place to place:)

I forgot there are 2 hatchet fish in there, they are silver in color.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Still have my albino bushynose pleco though! :)

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That must be one sharp looking fish.

Man, we don't get anything around here. :mad: I end up having to mail order anything different. My next fish is going to be a zebra pleco. I have wanted one of those for a while but don't like the price tag.:D

Yeah, he/she is sharp looking, when you get the magnifying glass out :) Only about an inch long right now. My local fish store is family owned and always gets tons of awesome looking, unique fish in. They've had freshwater eels, even had a lungfish once(VERY cool). I love not having to go to Petco or Petsmart for sickly fish.

oh we get sooooooo many unique fish here... and i can get pretty much anything i want special ordered in as well... so my tanks are great to stare into.

i love otos - they clean sooo well. when they attach to the side of the tank... you'll see their little suction cup mouths. ;)

i am soooooo excited reading this thread... i loooove seeing someone get bit by the fish bug :)

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

oh we get sooooooo many unique fish here... and i can get pretty much anything i want special ordered in as well... so my tanks are great to stare into.

i love otos - they clean sooo well. when they attach to the side of the tank... you'll see their little suction cup mouths. ;)

i am soooooo excited reading this thread... i loooove seeing someone get bit by the fish bug :)

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Weve got a fish shop here that absolutely wonderful, the place that got me bit by the bug:). They have pretty much everything you can imagine, freshwater stingrays, every type of coral you can imagine, a shark egg sac (so cool, you can see the little shark in there) and SO MUCH MORE.

The Aquarium Connection

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Originally Posted by worldcupkeeper

a shark egg sac (so cool, you can see the little shark in there)

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You mean one of these?:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...angingout1.jpg

Which looks like this when it pops out?:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...fish/shark.jpg

they are soooooooo cute!

Seems to me that they were already adapted to the dirty water.. they got shocked by the new waters' chlorine level and maybe even a drastic pH change. Maybe they just got sick of cleaning the tank and wanted to unload it? I can post more a little later when I get off work.. gotta love working 50 hours a week.. really great for your social/internet life! :( :( :(

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Originally Posted by SPJ

You mean one of these?:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...angingout1.jpg

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Yeps thats it:)

ok here are a couple quick pics of the Gold Gourami and the Pearl Gourami.
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...amiResized.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...amiResized.jpg

We also got 2 blue paradise gouramis and one blue gourami yesterday after talking to the people at our local (and did I saw AWSOME) fish shop. They too believe the fish died from the clean water overload, they say since we have had it running for a couple days it would be ok to add a couple more fish.

Never knew trying to take pictures of fish would be so hard:cool:.

Aric,

This is a touchy subject... There are so many successful ways to keep fish, I was tough the slow approach... I never would have added more fish to a tank that was so recently moved. Did these employees test your water? All the good aquatic stores here will test your water for you, or teach you to do it properly. This is the tricky thing... Because your tank is "stirred up" chemically, it's going to haft to recycle/balance out. This usually takes 4-8 weeks with fresh water, depending how many fish you keep... and the amount of food your feeding. MOST IMPORTANT: DO NOT OVER FEED YOUR FISH!!! Even the back of the fish food will have you usually feeding 2-3 x too much. Nothing will spike your ammonia like excess food. Even if your tank levels read good... "Cycled" that doesn't mean your levels aren't about to-or in the middle of, shooting through the roof. They spike in this order.... Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH levels out.... ***Disclaimer: I have not been on a fish kick in years, so if any of this is not correct, be kind! lol *** These things must happen to get your tank established. The rub is getting everything to spike without hitting toxic levels. This is what's throwing a red flag up with your tank for me... I think you might have too many fish in an unestablished tank. A healthy established fresh water tank can support 1 inch of fish per gallon. But..... that's after it's cycled etc... I would get a GOOD test kit.. Aquarium Farms has a good one... (I prefer the liquid to the strips) and watch it close. If you start getting "Toxic" on a level you'll need to do small partial water changes. (With your gravel vac. getting clean water off the top does not help... you gotta get to the sludge)....... I like Prime as a dechlor. because it tackle Nitrites/Nitrates as well, but that's for after you get established. Novaqua is ROCKIN good stuff too... I'm just worried your setting up for a "CRASH".... And there's nothing worse than walking in to a tank full of dead fishies.... :(

Gosh... did I type your eyes off or what!?!? Hope some of this helps ?!?!?:confused: L

Awesome gouramis; they are some of the coolest and most underrated fish in my opinion. Yes, I need to agree, photographing fish is Hard.. I end up taking 60 pics and keeping about 5 that look good..
I don't know if I would have added more fish personally.. how are they doing though? I agree that a good test kit is a must-have; I really believe that many who fail at fishkeeping try to overload their tank too fast..
I hope that the gouramis make it though; on a positive note, I have seen a tank that had had a community-tank setup with gouramis, tetras, etc. and the tank had crashed badly; it was in an abandoned house that Mark's company bought, and had been neglected for weeks; the gouramis were the survivors out of the whole thing!

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Awesome gouramis; they are some of the coolest and most underrated fish in my opinion. Yes, I need to agree, photographing fish is Hard.. I end up taking 60 pics and keeping about 5 that look good..
I don't know if I would have added more fish personally.. how are they doing though? I agree that a good test kit is a must-have; I really believe that many who fail at fishkeeping try to overload their tank too fast..
I hope that the gouramis make it though; on a positive note, I have seen a tank that had had a community-tank setup with gouramis, tetras, etc. and the tank had crashed badly; it was in an abandoned house that Mark's company bought, and had been neglected for weeks; the gouramis were the survivors out of the whole thing!

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Yeah im falling in love with the gouramis, ive got another 20 gallon that im going to get some more gouramis and maybe some mollies for it (once everything is ready to go). I know, adding the fish was probably no the best idea but I guess its one of those newbie things people do. You just see the fish and have to have it. Never again will this happen. The new ones are actually doing pretty well, they are getting chased around alot by the gold gourami but other than that they are good. The tank came with a test kit, but I think its may be a little old as when I tried to use it nothing really worked:oops:. Ive got some pics of a few of the fish that needs to be resized, then I will post:).

Here are a few pics.
Gold Gourami
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...mi1Resized.jpg

Pearl Gourami
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...mi1Resized.jpg

Paradise Blue Gourami
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...amiResized.jpg

Blue Gourami
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...amiResized.jpg

Cool; a few other gouramis that I have are the honey gourami, and the red dwarf. I think that the dwarves in particular would be good for a 10g tank; maybe a pair. I have noticed that they are not as aggressive as the larger ones.. if you get a very large tank, look into a Giant Gourami! Now those are some oddball fish!!

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Seems to me that they were already adapted to the dirty water.. they got shocked by the new waters' chlorine level and maybe even a drastic pH change.

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this is a really good point. when water changes are not done... the pH level will lower. so although clean water won't harm fish... the drastic change in pH could kill them.

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Originally Posted by Laooda

This is a touchy subject... There are so many successful ways to keep fish

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Soooo true!!!

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Originally Posted by Laooda

Because your tank is "stirred up" chemically, it's going to haft to recycle/balance out. This usually takes 4-8 weeks with fresh water, depending how many fish you keep... and the amount of food your feeding.

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i've never heard of this. once a tank is cycled... (the bacteria usually live in the gravel and inside the filter as well as on the plants and lastly some in the water (although only minor amounts are actually in the water). In a new tank... brand new or a completely cleaned tank (gravel washed etc) then a cycle takes approx 6 weeks to complete depending on the amount of fish you have to cycle your tank.

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Originally Posted by Laooda

MOST IMPORTANT: DO NOT OVER FEED YOUR FISH!!!

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rule of thumb... feed your fish and sit and watch them. feed them as much as they can eat within 3-5 minutes. i prefer closer to 3 minutes.

"i've never heard of this. once a tank is cycled... (the bacteria usually live in the gravel and inside the filter as well as on the plants and lastly some in the water (although only minor amounts are actually in the water). In a new tank... brand new or a completely cleaned tank (gravel washed etc) then a cycle takes approx 6 weeks to complete depending on the amount of fish you have to cycle your tank."


Yep! Agreed! :P What I was trying to get across is that when you stir up old substrate that has not been maintained properly w/ water changes etc... you can release nitrate? pockets.... So, what I was getting at was that because everything was mixed up during the move, and receiving such a large amount of new water, etc... that the tank is going to haft to restabilize.... At least that's what I always understood!?!? :confused::oops::confused:

Very nice.


Keep an eye on those paradise fish. They can be agressive little buggers.

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Originally Posted by Laooda

Yep! Agreed! :P What I was trying to get across is that when you stir up old substrate that has not been maintained properly w/ water changes etc... you can release nitrate? pockets.... So, what I was getting at was that because everything was mixed up during the move, and receiving such a large amount of new water, etc... that the tank is going to haft to restabilize.... At least that's what I always understood!?!? :confused::oops::confused:

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well when we moved my daughter's tank... which was NOT clean when she moved out she had no problems with adding all new water to the tank.

when we moved our 90 gallon well maintained tank to my girlfriend's place... she didn't loose a single fish (over the next weeks) and completely filled that with clean water and we went out and picked up fish the next day. (as we were all too tired that day to go out and get some) the tank has been running for a year now... and she's only ever lost a few fish so far. ;) the tank was running here for around 4 years before that.

so... although i do agree with what you are saying in theory, it has not been my experience.

but... i am gifted when it comes to tanks... i have the touch :8:

"but... i am gifted when it comes to tanks... i have the touch :8:"


This I believe! :P I moved a 75 once, and my levels went WHACK!!! :oops: The fish store I consulted told me that some will do that when things get all mixed up... But that doesn't mean poo!!!! lmao ! Ive seriously got the itch to set it back up again!!! Do you have pix of all your tanks!?! I'd love to see them!!!! :sunny::sunny::sunny:

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Very nice.


Keep an eye on those paradise fish. They can be agressive little buggers.

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Well one of them is acting pretty good, like its trying to be part of the group. The other one always hides in the top corner in a floating plant, except for feeding time, then hes everywhere. He was getting chased around alot be the bigger gouramis so we think he may be hiding form them:).


Ive been thinking about the other 20 gallon tank, anyone know anything about freshwater fiddler crabs?;) I would like to get a setup for them.