I'm about crushed!

Today I took the little rattie I've hand raised to the vet to get her raing worm treated. First thing out of my vets mouth was "cute little thing but looks like she has megacolon". My heart just dropped. We then talked and he gave me a few options.

1st - He said he could do a surgury on her but there is no guarantee that it would completly fix it or that she would make it. He also said that it would be very expensive and time would only tell.

2nd - I could treat her for the ring worm and wait and see how she does, but it will only get worse and it's painful.

3rd - I could put her down.

I was just heart broken so I told him I was going to hold off on making any decisions right then and there and I'd be getting back in contact with him in a few days after I thought everything out, etc.


I hate to do it because I love the little girl, but I think putting her down is in her best interest at the moment. I don't know why I didn't pick up on it earlier because I've noticed that she hardly ever poops and has gotten pretty "fat" looking in the past week or two. I just feel really bad right now because I'm sure she is in pain because of that and I know she is itching like crazy too.


What do you guys think? Do you think I'll be doing the right thing for her?
I'd really like to hear your thoughts please because I'm completly heart broken right now. Just writing this has me all choked and teared up!

i'm very sorry to hear about your little girl. unfortunately the best thing you can do for her is to have her put down. she is in pain right now and there is no need to prolong her suffering. it's tough, but it really is the best thing you can do for her. :hug:

I agree with Emily - as heart breaking as it is - the kindest thing to do for her is to humanely end her suffering. Say your goodbyes this evening and then take her in tomorrow if you can. No need to let her continue to be in pain. The hardest thing to do as a pet owner is say good bye, but they really count on us to make their passing as pain free as possible.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I agree with Emily - as heart breaking as it is - the kindest thing to do for her is to humanely end her suffering. Say your goodbyes this evening and then take her in tomorrow if you can. No need to let her continue to be in pain. The hardest thing to do as a pet owner is say good bye, but they really count on us to make their passing as pain free as possible.

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I agree.

I'm so sorry:( I know it is a hard thing to do, but I agree with the others. Stop her pain.

Best to end the little rat's suffering dear and do it as soon and as humanely as possible.

I'm very sorry to hear this but in the end its what nature intended. Naturally, the sick animals, predator and prey alike would likely be picked off before they get to the point of pain but as our pets are not likely to be preyed upon as a sick or injured animal would in the wild so they rely on us to do what nature would otherwise "clean up". Just remember, its as nature intended. Do what you feel best in your heart and you will never go wrong.
Keep your head up!
If you need to talk, feel free to PM me

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Today I took the little rattie I've hand raised to the vet to get her raing worm treated. First thing out of my vets mouth was "cute little thing but looks like she has megacolon". My heart just dropped. We then talked and he gave me a few options.

1st - He said he could do a surgury on her but there is no guarantee that it would completly fix it or that she would make it. He also said that it would be very expensive and time would only tell.

2nd - I could treat her for the ring worm and wait and see how she does, but it will only get worse and it's painful.

3rd - I could put her down.

I was just heart broken so I told him I was going to hold off on making any decisions right then and there and I'd be getting back in contact with him in a few days after I thought everything out, etc.


I hate to do it because I love the little girl, but I think putting her down is in her best interest at the moment. I don't know why I didn't pick up on it earlier because I've noticed that she hardly ever poops and has gotten pretty "fat" looking in the past week or two. I just feel really bad right now because I'm sure she is in pain because of that and I know she is itching like crazy too.


What do you guys think? Do you think I'll be doing the right thing for her?
I'd really like to hear your thoughts please because I'm completly heart broken right now. Just writing this has me all choked and teared up!

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Allison,i am so sorry to here that she has this condition :( .In my opinion if she would have only a slight chance to survive even after the surgery then i would end her suffering :( .If you need someone to just talk to pm me anytime as you know i have lots of time to help a family member out :grouphug: .

I'm sorry hun, she was a gorgeous girl. I'm glad you are doing the right thing and letting her go peacefully before her health declined too much. Megacolon is a very painful condition, and no 3 week old baby should have to suffer through it.

And this is also a good lesson for people who like to breed high-white rats(blazed, husky, masked, any headspots, etc). Megacolon happens and is a serious concern. If you are breeding high white rats, and get megacolon babies, it is very important to not use any rats from that line for breeding, as they carry the predisposition to pass megacolon on.

Thank you all for the support and help. I now know what I have to do. It's going to be real hard to make that phone call tomorrow but I know it's for the best for her. :rainon::sigh2::crying::sniff::tears:

So sorry..... :grouphug: really.

http://primevalbeauty.com/rat2.jpg

http://primevalbeauty.com/now.jpg


And just taken a few minutes ago
http://primevalbeauty.com/cc.jpg

That is one adorable rodent. I'm so sorry, Allison :(

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Thank you all for the support and help. I now know what I have to do. It's going to be real hard to make that phone call tomorrow but I know it's for the best for her. :rainon::sigh2::crying::sniff::tears:

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Allison,we will all be here for ya when you need a shoulder or an ear to listen ;) .

I too have a delima like yours my hairless rat is 3 and she has reoccuring sores on her feet that we have been treating for about a year and a really big tumor that I can have removed but she woudl probably not live through the anasteia. :(
Ratt is my daughters first pet and she still drives her around in the barbie VW Bug. I have an appointment in a week to have her suffering ended. It is soo hard and I am soo sorry that you have to feel this pain as well. If you want to talk you can email me. :hug:

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Originally Posted by kellysballs

I too have a delima like yours my hairless rat is 3 and she has reoccuring sores on her feet that we have been treating for about a year and a really big tumor that I can have removed but she woudl probably not live through the anasteia. :(
Ratt is my daughters first pet and she still drives her around in the barbie VW Bug. I have an appointment in a week to have her suffering ended. It is soo hard and I am soo sorry that you have to feel this pain as well. If you want to talk you can email me. :hug:

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Not being rude towards you here.Why is the appointment a week away? I would think the vet would have it sooner because of the pain.

joe,

perhaps that's a personal choice they have made as a family. to have one more week with her.

allison,

i'm so sorry to hear this. i'm sending healing :hug: your way. take lots of pictures and enjoy your time with her tonight.

in light,
aleesha

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

joe,

perhaps that's a personal choice they have made as a family. to have one more week with her.

allison,

i'm so sorry to hear this. i'm sending healing :hug: your way. take lots of pictures and enjoy your time with her tonight.

in light,
aleesha

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Aleesha,i was not "jumping" on her as you seem to think i am here.I was thinking of how hard it is on her daughter seeing her rattie in this condition.I just wondered if the vet was not thinking of how this was hurting her daughter and the family.Thats why my first sentance was "i am not being rude towards you here" so no one misunderstood my reason for asking.

Okay before I go thru with this - I'll admit I don't know much about it MC.

Last night I changed her bedding out and I did find a bunch of poop's under/buried in her bedding. I put her on a wheat based litter and this morning I do see a few poops. Could my vet be wrong with what he said? Could he just hold her and know that she is a MC case with out doing any kind of test or something? I know I didn't say this to him or this last night because well my mind wasn't thinking straight at all. But I did change her diet from a kitten food to a weight control dog kibble that my dog eats a few days back - week ago at guess. Could that cause her to "back up" or bloat up? could it have given her gas or something? Maybe the kitten food was to much and she's just getting a little rounded belly on her? The picture's I've googled... don't look anything like what she looks like. I'll post a picture of her belly and her over all later. And now I'm really stuck on what to do. Thoughts once again guys on this now? I need to leave for work, but I'm not taking her with me like I had planned to last night. I'll be back this evening. Please feel free to PM or reply to this. I'm going to make sure that I clearly have cleared anything and everything up before putting her down just incase the vet is wrong since he has been in the past with my snakes. :\

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

Okay before I go thru with this - I'll admit I don't know much about it MC.

Last night I changed her bedding out and I did find a bunch of poop's under/buried in her bedding. I put her on a wheat based litter and this morning I do see a few poops. Could my vet be wrong with what he said? Could he just hold her and know that she is a MC case with out doing any kind of test or something? I know I didn't say this to him or this last night because well my mind wasn't thinking straight at all. But I did change her diet from a kitten food to a weight control dog kibble that my dog eats a few days back - week ago at guess. Could that cause her to "back up" or bloat up? could it have given her gas or something? Maybe the kitten food was to much and she's just getting a little rounded belly on her? The picture's I've googled... don't look anything like what she looks like. I'll post a picture of her belly and her over all later. And now I'm really stuck on what to do. Thoughts once again guys on this now? I need to leave for work, but I'm not taking her with me like I had planned to last night. I'll be back this evening. Please feel free to PM or reply to this. I'm going to make sure that I clearly have cleared anything and everything up before putting her down just incase the vet is wrong since he has been in the past with my snakes. :\

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Sorry to hear your about your story, having to make such a choice for a beloved pet is always hard and if now you have doubt it will be even harder, so maybe what you should do is go to another vet and ask for a second opinion, so will know for sure. It won't make your choice easier if you have to make the decision to have her put down, it but you will then know for sure it was the right choice and won't wonder "What If"

a rat with megacolon is pretty unmistakable--even if the symptoms have just started to show. does her tail seem thin compared to other rats her age? are her poops normal size/consistency? is her anal area dry and clean or is there any wetness, dried feces or anything there other than soft, dry fur? are her sides/belly bloated at all, do they feel hard instead of soft and kind of squishy? if you can get some photos of her, looking down from above and with her stretched upward, holding her under her armpits that may help us to determine more.

again, i'm so sorry that you are having to go through with this and i completely understand wanting to get all the answers beforehand so you can make an educated decision. i can't imagine that a vet would wrongly diagnose megacolon, unless they were just....well, not good. i know that you want what is best for your little girl, so hopefully we'll be able to determine what that is soon!

if your vet has been wrong with your snakes... then why would you keep going to them? or was it a minor 'wrong' with your snakes???

sorry joe, the way i read your post wasn't supportive for a family going thru the loss of a 3 year old beloved pet. my bad.

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Originally Posted by GA_Ball_Pythons

Sorry to hear your about your story, having to make such a choice for a beloved pet is always hard and if now you have doubt it will be even harder, so maybe what you should do is go to another vet and ask for a second opinion, so will know for sure. It won't make your choice easier if you have to make the decision to have her put down, it but you will then know for sure it was the right choice and won't wonder "What If"

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I agree :)

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

if your vet has been wrong with your snakes... then why would you keep going to them? or was it a minor 'wrong' with your snakes???

sorry joe, the way i read your post wasn't supportive for a family going thru the loss of a 3 year old beloved pet. my bad.

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No problem :) .Myself being a parent i can picture the broken hearts they have dealing with this and just wondered if the vet was the reason for waiting so long.I understand if it is the family wanting to have a little more "special" time also.It really hurts to lose a pet :( .

does her tail seem thin compared to other rats her age?
No - Today I was working around a bunch rats her age/size/weight.
are her poops normal size/consistency?
I do believe they are the right size...
consistency - now that I see that she covers them all up i'll have to go with yeah this rats poops a good bit.

is her anal area dry and clean
Yes & yes
or is there any wetness, dried feces or anything there other than soft, dry fur?
Nope all looks normal there
are her sides/belly bloated at all
she does have a round tummy, but it doesn't really look like bloat to me

, do they feel hard instead of soft and kind of squishy?
The last time I picked her up - they were not hard. That was a few days ago before I knew she had ring worm and well that I had gotten it.



" can't imagine that a vet would wrongly diagnose megacolon, unless they were just....well, not good."
I liked my vet and he has seen past rats and has operated on them that I have kept as pets over the years. As for the snake + vet comment - He kept telling me that Baytil would kick the RI that my snake(s) had. Yeah that worked great - NOT and finally the 3rd time I asked him to do a culture and he did not. After that Pete called him up and pretty much laid him out and well he did one and bingo the RI's went right away with a different med. So now he is in question with me and my snakes. Also he will be in question with me and this rat after this post.

Okay here are the pictures - I was NOT about to touch her so I tried to get a few pictures of her in different poses.

http://primevalbeauty.com/cc22.jpg
http://primevalbeauty.com/cc23.jpg
http://primevalbeauty.com/cc24.jpg
http://primevalbeauty.com/cc25.jpg
http://primevalbeauty.com/cc26.jpg
http://primevalbeauty.com/cc27.jpg

I am not a expert on that megacolon stuff but she looks like a normal rat to my eyes.I guess i will google that megacolon for more info :) .Here is a good luck vibe that she turns out not having it.Its pretty bad when someone has to call your vet before they would run a culture:mad: .Allison did he even act like he heard you when you asked him to do a culture? If so i would have left right then and never look back.

dang that is one insanely cute little girl!

i honestly can't see anything in the photos that would lead me to believe she has megacolon. of course i could well be wrong, not being able to see her in person and feel her sides and check her over, or it could just be just now starting to become evident and it's just hard to see that from the pics.

i think it may be time for a second opinion from another vet. unless there is something i'm missing i'd not immediately pick her out as having megacolon...

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Originally Posted by joepythons

its pretty bad when someone has to call your vet before they would run a culture:mad: .Allison did he even act like he heard you when you asked him to do a culture? If so i would have left right then and never look back.

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I have to agree!
I dropped all 3 of them off at 8am one day and asked him to run a culture on it when he looked at them because I was not able to make it there during their "office hours" so when I told him that he was all like "yeah, i'll do that and we'll nip this in the bud, etc". At 8pm that night when I picked them up - he had given me more Baytrl that I straight up told him twice already that was NOT working! I was MAD MAD MAD, infact so mad I called my friend up and just went off about it to him. Little did I know that he called Pete and well Pete called up and had some word with him about it all and demaded that my snakes get it done and that he gives me the results on paper so Pete can have a look at it. After all that was said and done.... RI junk is gone!

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Originally Posted by mlededee

dang that is one insanely cute little girl!

i honestly can't see anything in the photos that would lead me to believe she has megacolon. of course i could well be wrong, not being able to see her in person and feel her sides and check her over, or it could just be just now starting to become evident and it's just hard to see that from the pics.

i think it may be time for a second opinion from another vet. unless there is something i'm missing i'd not immediately pick her out as having megacolon...

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Thanks!
Does MC just "creep up" and show up like over night or is it a long bad process of it showing up?! Once again I know nothing about MC - I think I'll get to googling that right after I type this peroid ;)

.

http://ratguide.com/health/digestive/megacolon.php

This is an invaluable site that I use sometimes to help my vets best treat my rats. Sometimes they vets just can't know every little detail if they don't see that type of animal day in and day out.

There are 2 types of MC, early and late onset. Early onset starts before the rat is weaned and typically happens very fast. It causes bloating and gas build-up, green, runny VERY pungent diarrhea or no feces at all.

Late onset can occur after the rat is weaned and on solid food. It can rear its ugly head soon after weaning, or the rat can live for a good year if put on a special diet. Feces can become impacted in the colon and rectum, causing alot of pain and discomfort. Bloating does occur but can be relieved using laxatives and other medications that help the intestines work better.

She doesn't look like she has MC, but without feeling her and looking at her feces, no one can say for sure. Her abdomen on the left side does look partially distended, but not noticeably so. Could also be how she's standing. Hold her up to your ear and listen to her gut sounds. Like listening to a horse's gut sounds when they have colic.

Try and clean her cage(using something such as aspen, as that wheat bedding has been dusty IME), and count how many bowel movements she has in a 12 hour period or so. Note the consistency and odor(if anything other than poop-smell).

How is she eating and what is she eating? And yes, cat food is NOT a good thing for rats to eat too much of. Too much protein can cause alot of problems. A high quality dog food such as wellness senior, wysong, Nutro ultra senior, anything like that with less than 18% protein, can be used moderately in their mix. I make up a 50-60lb batch everytime I make it(lasts me 3-4 months with 24 rats), and I use about 1/3-1/2 of an 8lb bag of Wellness Senior. Occassionally I may give a can of science diet kitten cat food, but that is to my older girls who need the calories and have choking issues when on their regular mix.

Good luck with her.

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

I have to agree!
I dropped all 3 of them off at 8am one day and asked him to run a culture on it when he looked at them because I was not able to make it there during their "office hours" so when I told him that he was all like "yeah, i'll do that and we'll nip this in the bud, etc". At 8pm that night when I picked them up - he had given me more Baytrl that I straight up told him twice already that was NOT working! I was MAD MAD MAD, infact so mad I called my friend up and just went off about it to him. Little did I know that he called Pete and well Pete called up and had some word with him about it all and demaded that my snakes get it done and that he gives me the results on paper so Pete can have a look at it. After all that was said and done.... RI junk is gone!

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Its nice to have a HIGHER voice if you will to get things done the right way :cool: .I have a few people that contact me if they have "problems" getting things fixed :D .I wonder if he will give you any more problems from here on out lol.

Thanks sooooo much Becky!!!!
I saved that link!

I've been giving her Nutro Natural Choice Lite Dog Food as that is what my dog is eating. Is that okay to her her by it's self or maybe I mix something else in to it?

One more question for right now....
What medications can a vet use on a rat that will kill/cure ring worm? Any idea. I'd like to just call him up and be like "look, this will work.... do you have it? if so give it to her!" and not play the "let's try this, if that don't work then this, and this...." and 4 months later she is bald and still has it. As you can see I have little to no faith in this vet anymore, and I don't know of any one else in state that is said to be good with rodents.

No, dog food should be the minority and make up not even 20% or so of the mix. Go by the mix I have Stickied in the feeder forum and she will grow up to be a happy healthy rat(if she doesn't have MC). Dog food is for dogs, and I only use it to make sure they are getting enough of every nutrient, and so the diet is well-rounded. How much protein does that dog food have in it? If if less than 20%, good for now until she's older. Then switch to a senior formula that has less than 18%.

Go to Tractor Supply and get some ivermectin deworming paste(horse section). 1.87% plain paste. Give her a dose that is HALF of an uncooked grain of rice, once per day for 2 weeks. If she has mites or internal parasites, this will get rid of that. Just in case.

Tractor Supply also has some Nolvasan shampoo, or your vet will have it. Betadine or povidone iodine scrub will work great too. Will turn her orange, but that makes it festive. Bathe her twice per day for 3-4 weeks, using conditioner such as Mane N Tail to help combat dry skin issues.

Bathe with the chlorhexidine shampoo first, let it set 5 minutes and rinse well. Then bathe with the betadine scrub or the povidone scrub for 5 minutes, using a soft bristled toothbrush to really get it in her skin. Let that sit for the 5 minutes and rinse well. Then use a small amount of the Mane N Tail conditioner and let it sit for just 1-2 minutes so it can work, and rinse(it can be left on, and is safe, but I rinse it off. I don't like sticky rats).

This should get rid of the fungus in a month or so. Make sure to clean her cage and accessories well(does she have a water bottle?) twice a week or so. Clipping her nails too will help, so she doesn't scratch herself raw. The conditioner will help make her less itchy.

This regimen was used on a chronically ringworm-infected dog, whose immune system couldn't fight the fungus off by itself. He also had to be put on oral antifungal meds(griseofulvin-VERY expensive) and will have to stay on them for the rest of his life. Dang inbred dogs(he is a Yorkshire Terrier). This helped him stay healthy and not infectious to anyone, except himself of course. He also had to be shaved down to the skin so the meds would work better.

Hope this helps! Good luck with her. Go count poop now!

GREAT GREAT GREAT!!!!
She does have a water bottle. Also that dog food has only 14%. I'll take a looksy over at the feeders forum for your feeding mix.

So far this girl has showed the will to live, so I'll treat her for the ring worm with the said things above. Hopefully she isn't a MC case, but time will tell with that.

Now I'm going to go count poops. lol

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

sorry joe, the way i read your post wasn't supportive for a family going thru the loss of a 3 year old beloved pet. my bad.

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Wait, I thought she was a baby that Allison recently hand raised? Now I'm really confused!

Robin go back 2-3 pages. You'll see that seomone else posted about having a older rat that had a tumor and a foot problem.

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Originally Posted by kellysballs

I too have a delima like yours my hairless rat is 3 and she has reoccuring sores on her feet that we have been treating for about a year and a really big tumor that I can have removed but she woudl probably not live through the anasteia. :(
Ratt is my daughters first pet and she still drives her around in the barbie VW Bug. I have an appointment in a week to have her suffering ended. It is soo hard and I am soo sorry that you have to feel this pain as well. If you want to talk you can email me. :hug:

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robin... this is the 3 yr old rattie :)

Ahhhh - gotcha!!! I had forgotten that part (this is page 2 for me, by the way - I think I have mine set to 20 posts a page.

Allison, I'm no vet nor think I know all there is about rats but hon I just don't see what your vet is seeing. That looks like a perfectly fine young rat to me. Again like others have said without a hands on examination I can't say for sure but I'm not seeing blantantly obvious signs of megacolon in those photos. Of course no one online can diagnose for you but it's just not visually an outright case of megacolon which can be very obvious in some young rats after weaning. Your rat baby might have just been a bit constipated or bloated from a feeding issue the day the vet say it perhaps. It is understandable given the rats blaze and markings and if it was bloated that day that the vet might assume it's a megacolon baby.

Personally I'd do as Becky suggested...monitor it's feces very closely, make feeding adjustments and keep a close eye on it for the next little while (as well as clear up the issues with ringworm of course). I wouldn't suggest you use this particular rat as breeding stock if it is fine and matures normally, just due to it's higher genetic chance of carrying megacolon but it certainly should make a fine pet rat if it's health stabilizes. If you do see signs of megacolon developing or the rat suddenly goes downhill or is in obvious pain then of course the only humane thing is euthanization.