Spiders????

What do you have to mix to get a spider and how much do they usually go for?
Thanks

Spider is a dom. trait. There is no het spider. It is just a spider to a normal and you get spiders!:D Hope it helps.

I haven't a clue what morphs originally made spiders, but they generally sell somewhere in the 1k area.

Thanks for the info

1k-4k depending on size, age, seller.

Actually if you look around they are going from 700 on up.

a lot of people are trying to dump 06 stock that they don't need since breeding season has started

Oh I've seen the $700 prices for awhile. Right along side the $700 Het Red Axanthics... the mind boggles.

But anyway. I do believe the original spider was imported by NERD. It's a Dom so no morphs were used to 'create it' other then itself.

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Originally Posted by Rberry1911

What do you have to mix to get a spider and how much do they usually go for?
Thanks

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Sugar and spice and every thing nice thats what little spiders are made of.

i think all spiders came from one male spider that NERD has

NO, No, No. There is no dumping of spider Balls. :)

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

a lot of people are trying to dump 06 stock that they don't need since breeding season has started

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

NO, No, No. There is no dumping of spider Balls. :)

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Maybe not for you, but just like whoever it was dropping the price of mojave's, people will sell for cheaper because they need the rack room or don't need the snakes.

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

Maybe not for you, but just like whoever it was dropping the price of mojave's, people will sell for cheaper because they need the rack room or don't need the snakes.

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Thats the wrong way to look at it, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. :)

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Thats the wrong way to look at it, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. :)

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I personally would not drop the prices like that just to get rid of them because I know that can affect the market. I am not talking selling a spider for like $300 here, but for $750 rather than $1000

The days of $1000.00 spiders are long gone, but your about right with that $750.00 price. prices will vary according to quality. some want a clean spotless spider and that will cost more. :)

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

I personally would not drop the prices like that just to get rid of them because I know that can affect the market. I am not talking selling a spider for like $300 here, but for $750 rather than $1000

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

The days of $1000.00 spiders are long gone

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Not really. ;)

-adam

Actually I have seen some very nice clean spiders in the 750-800 range so I can't really agree that it's as graded as say the pastels.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Actually I have seen some very nice clean spiders in the 750-800 range so I can't really agree that it's as graded as say the pastels.

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Can't really agree either but that's my opinion....:)

A really superb spider still goes for $1K. A 'nice clean' spider might go for $750.
Selling off excess stock you don't need is not "Dumping them onto the market". Its standard practice to sell unneeded animals. "Dumping" would be wholesale selling all of the spiders since you don't think they will make you any money any longer. Personally I think spiders are not only super in their own right, but they help make BEES. Oooooooo... drool.
Wolfy

I love spiders I'd own 550 million of them if I could

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Actually I have seen some very nice clean spiders in the 750-800 range so I can't really agree that it's as graded as say the pastels.

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The people who make a silly name like "insert name here Reptiles" and call themselves a breeder without any real idea how to act like a REAL business are the ones who use a low price point as their sole promotion strategy; those are the ones who dump prices, and in my opinion, accelerate the price drops relative to what normal supply and demand would do.

Just because some clown sells a spider for $750, everyone automatically assumes that's what they are worth. You can do so much with the spider mutation that its not even funny. Just look at all the combos out there. Any good ball collection would be incomplete without one.

Its really pathetic, in my opinion.

Oh yeah, these market threads suck.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

The people who make a silly name like "insert name here Reptiles" and call themselves a breeder without any real idea how to act like a REAL business are the ones who use a low price point as their sole promotion strategy; those are the ones who dump prices, and in my opinion, accelerate the price drops relative to what normal supply and demand would do.

Just because some clown sells a spider for $750, everyone automatically assumes that's what they are worth. You can do so much with the spider mutation that its not even funny. Just look at all the combos out there. Any good ball collection would be incomplete without one.

Its really pathetic, in my opinion.

Oh yeah, these market threads suck.

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Ever so true

I'll be honost though... If I was in the market for a spider RIGHT NOW... And I went to a show and I saw a couple vendors with some clean patterned beautiful spiders but "vendor A" wanted $1,000 and "vendor B'' wanted $750... IF both vendors had a good rep (say on the BOI) for customer service/and healthy animals... I'd personally go for "vendor B", Nothing against Vendor A but, if both animals were healthy and just as clean as the other... There's nothing wrong with saving an extra $250 and investing it elsewhere...maybe a rack, another animal (possibly even something Vendor A had that vender b didn't) or more supplies... :)

If Vendor A's spider was bigger or was a Het for something else I could see paying the extra $250... But that's my opinion...What matters to me is getting a healthy correctly sexed animal and good customer service...

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

I'll be honost though... If I was in the market for a spider RIGHT NOW... And I went to a show and I saw a couple vendors with some clean patterned beautiful spiders but "vendor A" wanted $1,000 and "vendor B'' wanted $750... IF both vendors had a good rep (say on the BOI) for customer service/and healthy animals... I'd personally go for "vendor B", Nothing against Vendor A but, if both animals were healthy and just as clean as the other... There's nothing wrong with saving an extra $250 and investing it elsewhere...maybe a rack, another animal (possibly even something Vendor A had that vender b didn't) or more supplies... :)

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Of course you would! ... Nothing wrong with being on a tight budget and looking for deals! ... The cool thing about this hobby is that there are breeders that cater to customers on every level. ;) :sweeet:

-adam

What also doesn't help is when clowns jump on forums and brag about the great deal they got, and seeing that over and over basically devalues the animal in the minds of everyone.

Its like buying a stock and announcing to the world, "look how much cheaper I got this, the price keeps going down and down!"- then that clown goes to sell that stock, and cries about how they can't get but a small margin of what they originally paid.

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

If Vendor A's spider was bigger or was a Het for something else I could see paying the extra $250.

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You're not going to find a spider anywhere het for anything that's only $250 more than a normal spider. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You're not going to find a spider anywhere het for anything that's only $250 more than a normal spider. ;)

-adam

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What about het for normal? ;)

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

What also doesn't help is when clowns jump on forums and brag about the great deal they got, and seeing that over and over basically devalues the animal in the minds of everyone.

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I say good for the people that get the deals! ... They have a right to brag!

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Of course you would! ... Nothing wrong with being on a tight budget and looking for deals! ... The cool thing about this hobby is that there are breeders that cater to customers on every level. ;) :sweeet:

-adam

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But it doesn't even have to do with being on a tight budget or not... Regardless if I was shopping for an animal and even if I had $5k in my pocket I would still opt for the animal that was $250 cheaper as long as it was healthy, What I wanted to clean up after and feed and the customer service was good...

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I say good for the people that get the deals! ... They have a right to brag!

-adam

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I just don't see the point, especially in cases when the person is making an investment and broadcasting that to future potential customers. But hey, to each their own!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You're not going to find a spider anywhere het for anything that's only $250 more than a normal spider. ;)

-adam

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Probably not (more likely)... But you never know... especially if someone's having a slow day and/or weekend...

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

But it doesn't even have to do with being on a tight budget or not... Regardless if I was shopping for an animal and even if I had $5k in my pocket I would still opt for the animal that was $250 cheaper as long as it was healthy, What I wanted to clean up after and feed and the customer service was good...

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Lots of people have that exact same attitude and I think it's great ... I know lots of people that make high six figure incomes that drive hyundai's because they just like the way they look ... totally cool.

I think my point was that it doesn't matter if you're looking to save a few bucks (for whatever reason) or if you're looking for a higher end shopping experience, there are breeders in this business that can satisfy every type of consumer. :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

Probably not (more likely)... But you never know... especially if someone's having a slow day and/or weekend...

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Would you really feel good about a "het" that someone needed to move so badly that they dropped the price at least a thousand dollars below market value?

I know that I wouldn't ... but hey, that's just me ... only been around this business for 10 years ... what would I know. :rofl:

-adam

After you have purchased many animals from different people you will find you get what you paID for. I got a DEAL last year on a larger female pastel and arrived beautiful and good size from someone who got it from someone most of us has heard of so I felt I got a good deal. Well that animal turned out to be a male which cost much less and worth ALOT less this year. So I lost a year and now am selling another male pastel for less than half what I paid. Don't need 2 males! Not such a good deal now, but I'll chaulk that up to experience. I knew other breeders that were selling for more that I already had good experiences with but I went for the deal. Getting back to spiders I bought one early this year for $1,500 from Jon at Nextworld Exotics. Well thats what they were going for then. When I saw Jon in Daytona he felt bad because the price droped so much but thats not his fault! He said I will give you a great deal on the next thing you buy. So later this year he sold me a pair of Cinamons for a GREAT price to make up for the spider drop! He didn't have to do that but thats the service you get from reputable people that want your return business and want you to do well. He knows if I do well I'll be back with more $ and lots of references. There are only a few people I will do business with online and thats not about price but quality, service and reputation. I could be producing pewters this year but that great deal came back to haunt me! BEWARE OF WHAT LOOKS LIKE A GOOD DEAL!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Would you really feel good about a "het" that someone needed to move so badly that they dropped the price at least a thousand dollars below market value?

-adam

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Well if it was guaranteed that it was infact a het? Sure... If it proved out... even better! Whether they dropped the price $5 or $1,000 it wouldn't matter to me...They obviously needed the money and I wanted the animal so we both won...

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

BEWARE OF WHAT LOOKS LIKE A GOOD DEAL!

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Good advice for anyone... I've had good luck with "good deals" so far, But that doesn't mean I'm going to always go for them... The way I see it... As long as the animal I'm buying is the correct sex that is being sold to me and healthy and provided with excellent customer service whether it be sold at a "good deal" or "market value" that's what's important to me...

I am with Adam I couldn't spend 4500 on a pied so if someone had one at say 2500 or even 1500 yea I be all ove it. I think to some who you got it from is just as important as what the animal looks like. Braging rights basicly. You say oh thats a spider from some dude at an expo and people will go oh its pretty, and never know the differance. To someone like Me and Cue and Tim and some others we get a kick out of saying thats an 8Ball, or I got that one streight for Sean at EBN or Mark Janaus (sp) hand picked that one for me. Now thats not to say that I wouldn't walk by a booth of some unknown and not find something I like. Its all in what you want if you just want a spider or a mojave and don't care about the breeder name then cool more power to you. I have a couple like that. Its all in what you want.

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

Well if it was guaranteed that it was infact a het? Sure.

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Anyone can guarantee anything is a het ... LOL

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

If it proved out... even better!\

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Well, that right there is the biggest difference between getting a deal at a show and buying from a pro like NERD, RDR, PKR, etc ... there are no "ifs" ... I'm looking forward to "when" my hets produce homozygous animals. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I am with Adam I couldn't spend 4500 on a pied so if someone had one at say 2500 or even 1500 yea I be all ove it. I think to some who you got it from is just as important as what the animal looks like. Braging rights basicly. You say oh thats a spider from some dude at an expo and people will go oh its pretty, and never know the differance. To someone like Me and Cue and Tim and some others we get a kick out of saying thats an 8Ball, or I got that one streight for Sean at EBN or Mark Janaus (sp) hand picked that one for me. Now thats not to say that I wouldn't walk by a booth of some unknown and not find something I like. Its all in what you want if you just want a spider or a mojave and don't care about the breeder name then cool more power to you. I have a couple like that. Its all in what you want.

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The more you buy from pros like Sean and Mark, the more you don't even want to bother with the flippers at the shows ... it feels good to be treated like a valued customer instead of just a random stranger trading a handful of cash for a snake in a old dirty bag. :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I am with Adam I couldn't spend 4500 on a pied so if someone had one at say 2500 or even 1500 yea I be all ove it. I think to some who you got it from is just as important as what the animal looks like. Braging rights basicly. You say oh thats a spider from some dude at an expo and people will go oh its pretty, and never know the differance. To someone like Me and Cue and Tim and some others we get a kick out of saying thats an 8Ball, or I got that one streight for Sean at EBN or Mark Janaus (sp) hand picked that one for me. Now thats not to say that I wouldn't walk by a booth of some unknown and not find something I like. Its all in what you want if you just want a spider or a mojave and don't care about the breeder name then cool more power to you. I have a couple like that. Its all in what you want.

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It should always be about what you want and what you like...
I myself have never bragged about "who" I bought from... Now if I was walking past booths say Greg Graziani, 8ball, RDR... and I saw an animal I liked... and then I saw some guy with only a couple of tables and a fraction of the animals but he had a stunning spider just as beautiful as any that the others had...but cheaper... I'd still opt for it. To me a Ball Python is a Ball python... Whether it's a RDR or a Graziani... Now of course I'm new to the whole show circuit but I've seen a few unknown or smaller known breeders with animals just as beautiful as the "big guy's"...

Now the question here is this... Everyone's talking about buying from the big breeders... What about the guy on BP.net who has been keeping ball pythons for a few years decides to take on breeding (alot of 'em on here including myself) produces some clutches and decides to put "them" on the market... He prices a little bit lower than the big guys but offers great customer service, has healthy & very beautiful animals keeps track of all of their records; weight, feeding, sheds & ect,... Are you going to not purchase from him because his price is lower? Does that automatically make his animals lower quality?

The fact is... Not everyone buying morphs are breeders, though alot are or have the intent to. Alot of the people that post about a low price aren't really bragging either... It's more so excitement and happiness and the fact that they want to share that. Alot of people are cool with it, the others that see these snakes as $$$ (investment/business) it's a nightmare...

Adam made a comment that "I say good for the people that get the deals! ... They have a right to brag! "

I'd say it's more happiness but ok...:)

Then he writes: Would you really feel good about a "het" that someone needed to move so badly that they dropped the price at least a thousand dollars below market value?

Well I myself and I'm sure most of everybody on here probably would...why shouldn't you? If you got a good deal and paid below the rest, if you actually paid below market value (I mean who is to say what is market value?). Here you have some saying $750 is market for Spiders and others saying $1000!! Why would you feel bad about it? If I needed $$$ and decided to sell my Pied (say I had one) for $1000, why should you feel bad about buying it? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

The more you buy from pros like Sean and Mark, the more you don't even want to bother with the flippers at the shows ... :sweeet:

-adam

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What about the flippers at the show that are members on BP.net and aren't as big as Sean and Mark but offer just as nice and healthy animals but offer a slightly lower price due to lack of recognition?... Just a thought... Of course I like to root for the underdog though...

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Anyone can guarantee anything is a het ... LOL


-adam

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Sure they can, but if the person has a great rep on the BOI and has a history of selling hets with no negative feedback I'd probably take the chance...

Look at it like this...

Breeder "A" has taxes to pay, large warehouse, employees, insurance, etc. etc. etc to support as well as his personal household. He sells morph X for $1000 in order to clear $400.

Breeder "B", has a couple of snakes as cool pets. Has no overhead, pays no taxes, very little in feed, no employees, has a day job that pays the bills. Down the road he decides to breed his 2-3 pairs of snakes for some extra cash (no full time business in mind and could not care less about being a career breeder). He has a clutch of morph X and decides to price them at $500 for which he will make some extra bucks simply go on vacation and maybe buy some more cool snakes.

Both have great snakes for sale and both stand behind their snakes!
Question? Why is breeder B automatically made out to be a price dumper, crook, scammer? Doesn't he have the right to sell his snakes for whatever he feels happy with? If he is happy with $500, why should anyone see that as wrong? Why should anyone see a customer who buys from this breeder as wrong? Who is to say that his snakes are not worth $500 and not $1000?

Here's the sad thing...

Everyone in this hobby is supposed to be in it for the love of the snakes 1st, not some investment or business project! That's the difference between a career breeder and a hobbyist, they need snake $$$ to live!! We need snake $$$ to buy more snakes and enjoy ourselves!

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

Here's the sad thing...

Everyone in this hobby is supposed to be in it for the love of the snakes 1st, not some investment or business project! That's the difference between a career breeder and a hobbyist, they need snake $$$ to live!! We need snake $$$ to buy more snakes and enjoy ourselves!

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:rockon:

Hey Adam weren't you one of those flippers at one time? :confused:

We all have to start off somewhere... :)

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

Now the question here is this... Everyone's talking about buying from the big breeders... What about the guy on BP.net who has been keeping ball pythons for a few years decides to take on breeding (alot of 'em on here including myself) produces some clutches and decides to put "them" on the market... He prices a little bit lower than the big guys but offers great customer service, has healthy & very beautiful animals keeps track of all of their records; weight, feeding, sheds & ect,... Are you going to not purchase from him because his price is lower? Does that automatically make his animals lower quality?

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I am in this group. This is me to a tee.

I got my het from Daniel Hill Reptiles and my banded female from Ed Clark. I love buying from smaller breeders. If a hobbiest breeder from here has something I like I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. I am hoping when I produce some clutches that people will trust me enough to buy mine.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I am in this group. This is me to a tee.

I got my het from Daniel Hill Reptiles and my banded female from Ed Clark. I love buying from smaller breeders. If a hobbiest breeder from here has something I like I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. I am hoping when I produce some clutches that people will trust me enough to buy mine.

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Great post!
Ed, I'm the same way, I love to root for the underdog...the smaller breeders or hobbyists...when you produce some clutches I would love to check out what hatches and if you have something that I like or catches my eye I don't see what would be stopping me from buying from you...

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

Sure they can, but if the person has a great rep on the BOI and has a history of selling hets with no negative feedback I'd probably take the chance...

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We all know how that story ended.

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