super newb....

lol. alright, so i am really new to rats. I was considering breeding them, but i am not sure yet. If i Xed a black hooded with a grey hooded they would just be a mixture of both, correct? And when they are babies, how do you sex them? I've heard it is hard when they are young to see what sex they are.

Thanks guys!

1. yes

2. look for the balls

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Originally Posted by Shaffer

1. yes

2. look for the balls

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i think she means when their babies, and they're unmentionables aren't developed yet

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Originally Posted by Amy05

lol. alright, so i am really new to rats. I was considering breeding them, but i am not sure yet. If i Xed a black hooded with a grey hooded they would just be a mixture of both, correct? And when they are babies, how do you sex them? I've heard it is hard when they are young to see what sex they are.

Thanks guys!

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I'm glad you asked this question. I was wondering the same thing. Is there a way to tell when they are little little?

Yep, it's actually really easy...

Sorry for the graphic details children, but that's how it is. :)

You can tell their sex 1-2 days after they're born. Males have 2 exits, one for peen(SORRY, LoL) and one for anus. Their "urethral opening" (there.. better? hehe) is bigger than in females and more pronounced from the belly wall. Females have 3 exits, urethral opening, vagina and anus. Their urethra is tiny and close to the body wall, and the space from the urethra to the anus is a much shorter distance. Females also have fairly visible nipples when they reach around 4 days old.

Visual:
http://www.ratz.co.uk/sexingrats.html

I still wouldn't worry about breeding rats for 4 snakes. Amy, are they still being housed in a 20long tank? If so, it really needs upgraded or you need to get a good wire cage(Super Pet makes nice ones...). It's just not very healthy for them to live in that kind of stuffy environment 24/7, especially with a new addition.

i forgot to mention the nipple part. that was the only way i could figure out the difference.

I've been able to tell mine pretty easily at about 2 or 3 days - boys are "outies" and girls are "innies". Basically their wee wee is either sticking out a bit, or flat on their belly. And Becky's right about the nipples, you can see them pretty early too on the girls.

Thanks everybody! Yes, they are still in the 20L, for now. I spot clean it every day and redo bedding atleast once a week. I'm going to go ahead and get them another cage, probably a nice wire one. I know they need a bigger place especially because they will get bigger. I'll take care of it, not to worry :).

Eh, I don't think I would bother breeding for just 4 snakes. I myself thought "ooh, rat breeding! An easy, cheap way to get snake food!" Oh, how naive little Jenny was.. granted, it is awesome to have just the right size of rat for my smaller BPs.. but it gets to be crazy when you have 8 cages taking up half of your laundry room and you spend more time cleaning them than it takes you to clean two 12x12 horse stalls of 12-hour-stalled horses..!
Don;t get me wrong, it is not that much of a burden to have the rats, or I would not have them.. I am just warning that it can get crazy when you only have a few snakes and you have either a ton of excess rats, or none when you neeed them.. I would personally say you should wait until you really need to.. I am just wishing for the day that my BCI can take a full-grown rat, because you end up with a lot of "retiree" breeders who outgrow breeding usage, and like anyone who breeds livestock, you have to either provide for them until they die, or risk losing them to a bad keeper; I would rather just feed them off.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I am just wishing for the day that my BCI can take a full-grown rat, because you end up with a lot of "retiree" breeders who outgrow breeding usage, and like anyone who breeds livestock, you have to either provide for them until they die, or risk losing them to a bad keeper; I would rather just feed them off.

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I am going to provide for mine until they die, I feel like they've earned a nice retirement after providing meals for my snakes. Maybe because my breeders are also loved as pets as well. :)

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I am going to provide for mine until they die, I feel like they've earned a nice retirement after providing meals for my snakes. Maybe because my breeders are also loved as pets as well. :)

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That's awesome.. mine are just pretty-much livestock to me. I really do not have time to handle them.. but like anyone who really knows how to keep livestock, I know that healthy rats are happy rats, and happy rats produce better; they live the best life I can give them. :) I did have one girl who was a pet rat before I got her, and I let her live out her life and she passed of natural causes.. I still miss her. I never feel the attachments to any of the current ones like that though..

My breeders are mean as can be. They are breeders and nothing more to me. I still give them good care, they just don't get handled. I just got bit again today trying to refil the food. I'm getting tired of them!!!

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

My breeders are mean as can be. They are breeders and nothing more to me. I still give them good care, they just don't get handled. I just got bit again today trying to refil the food. I'm getting tired of them!!!

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That's a shame :( . Mine are all doll babies - and love to be held and cuddled. I don't think I'll ever tire of them. :love:

i also look at my breeder rats as livestock , but if any of them become aggresive they get fed off . i breed fancy rats so i can sell some as pets , although the majority are used for feeders . i dont want aggresive rats producing for me because i dont want to take the chance that its an inheritable trait . i handle all my breeders on a semi regular basis just to avoid it .

as for breeding your own rats for just 4 snakes , i dont think it would save you very much money , but you just might find that you enjoy the rats almost as much as you do your snakes . its all dependent on what you like .

well. I wasn't talking about breeding them for food, i meant for pets. Give some of them away, and keep some for my ever growing collection. i love my ratties, i dont think i could ever feed any of their babies off.

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Originally Posted by Amy05

well. I wasn't talking about breeding them for food, i meant for pets. Give some of them away, and keep some for my ever growing collection. i love my ratties, i dont think i could ever feed any of their babies off.

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You only have 4 snakes. Just wait and those babies are just as cute as they are in your snake tubs

you have to keep in mind that rats are very prolific breeders . 1 male and three females can produce quite a few offspring . sometimes it can be difficult to sell or even give away all the babies .

i try to feed off the less cute ones to my snakes and keep the better looking ones either for future breeding stock or to sell to the petshop i work at as pet fancy rats . with 17 hungry reptilian mouths to feed it becomes a matter of economics . i save quite a bit raising my own rats for feeders and on top of that , the ones i sell off pretty much pay for the feed and bedding for the ones i breed .

with 12 to 15 breeder females i'm producing enough food for my snakes without buying hardly any . i also know that i'm feeding them healthy rats which in turn means healthier snakes . buying feeders weather live or frozen you just never know bow healthy those feeders are .

it really comes down to what you personally want , but if your going to breed rats you may as well put some to good use for your snakes too .

If you are looking to specifically breed for pet then probably best to do a lot of research online about rat genetics so you know what you are crossing will produce a pet/show quality rat with as little genetic issues as possible. Also figure out how many you want to produce, your market locally, etc. before you end up with a lot of young rats you can't find homes for.

She has 4 snakes and wants to breed rats. I think that is enough snakes to at least put a dent in your saving money towards buying feeders. I say go for it.


I am breeding African soft furs for my one snake.....just 1 snake. Yeah, I know, whats the point? It is definetly work, the rats jump like crazy and bite too. But they are so neat to watch, the experience to me is worth it.....even if it doesn't work out. If it doesn't, I can just quit and feed off what I have....I am sure Stryker won't mind...:)

i breed rats and i really enjoy them but i try to stay away from them and not handle them that much because i dont want to get attached to them since im the one that has to kill their babies or them eventually (well my snake does the killing but its almost the same.. lol).. you guys that say you love your rats.. how can you love them and then again kill their babies and/or them? isnt it hard for you?

Just on a side note, if you ever were to get overloaded you could always donate the extra rats to a Raptor Recovery like I'm going to do or just solve it and get a few more snakes!!!:D

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Originally Posted by BaLLPAddICT

i breed rats and i really enjoy them but i try to stay away from them and not handle them that much because i dont want to get attached to them since im the one that has to kill their babies or them eventually (well my snake does the killing but its almost the same.. lol).. you guys that say you love your rats.. how can you love them and then again kill their babies and/or them? isnt it hard for you?

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I absolutely adore my breeders, and as stated before my breeders will live their natural lives with me (they will not be fed off).

My first two litters were very difficult to feed off - I do handle the babies, but I try to keep an emotional detachment from them, while loving up on mom.

Honestly, by the time that the babies are fed off, mom is relieved to be rid of them. She doesn't know they are being fed off, she just knows that she doesn't have those leeches demanding her attention all the time.

For example, I had a litter of 10 in my last litter, fed off 8 of them (the last two I'm considering as future breeders) and mom is not searching for the "missing" eight - she's continuing to care for her remaining two charges. I don't think she has an emotional, but rather instinctive attachment to them.

Is it easy? Nope, but as my dear friend Joanna explained - it's what nature intended with predator and prey - we're just a cog in the wheel. I had two five week old boys that I knew I wasn't keeping that I fed off last week as well - those were hard on me (they were from my first litter) and I fed them to females that I knew were swift predators, so I put them in and did walk out of the room for a few minutes and then checked back in on the snakes to see that they were happily enjoying their meal.

i sometimes wonder about my rats . i have one female breeder that tried to hand me one of her babies the other night when i was feeding them . i opened her tank to put food in and she was standing up against the glass with a baby in her mouth as if saying here take this one . she actually tried to push the baby over the top of the tank at me . this was about a half hour after i had taken 2 of her babies to feed off .

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Originally Posted by markface

i sometimes wonder about my rats . i have one female breeder that tried to hand me one of her babies the other night when i was feeding them . i opened her tank to put food in and she was standing up against the glass with a baby in her mouth as if saying here take this one . she actually tried to push the baby over the top of the tank at me . this was about a half hour after i had taken 2 of her babies to feed off .

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Omg Mark that one had me inhaling my after dinner coffee up my dang nose! hahahahahahaha!

I swear I have female rats that are so sick of the little leeches they'd offer them up for a little feeder action too! We have one female here (Stubby) who though a decent breeder, absolutely considers those squeeking, demanding, teat chewers as a total trial in her rat life. If I come any where near her maternity tank she'll stand up, dance about on her hind legs and basically beg to get away from the whole noisy crew of them. LOL

As soon as her litters are weaned you can just see the poor dear take a deep breath and get back to the first and absolute love of her life....eating! How a rat can nurse a good sized litter of babies and still look fat enough to be pregnant is beyond me but Stubby...well she has "issues" about food.

i'm sure having to nurse 10 to 20 babies gets old really fast . i know it would drive me crazy . when she was pushing the baby at me i had to laugh myself , it was hilarious .

i have a couple females that just plain live to eat . any time i go into the rat room , they are up at the glass waiting for food . i keep treats in the room just to give to these girls so they wil stop freaking out .

Okay couple more goofy rat stories (rats really are silly funny creatures)....

One of our breeder females always immediately dumps any full food bowl. She has somehow convinced herself that the VERY best thing in that bowl exists at the bottom and the ONLY way she can find this is to dump out the food and spread it all out to search through it for said super treat. This totally ticks off other female rats that may be living with her at the time. They go peer in the empty bowl and I swear if rats could cuss they'd be cussing her out for making her usual mess.

Another of my females when she has young (and only when she has young), will dump out the food bowl, drag it across the tank, flip it upside down and tuck her babies underneath it. She is apparently some sort of frustrated Bob Vila or something.

Our big breeder male that is now retired has this odd game. When we remove the big water bottle to refill it, he stands up and wants to play tug with the now slack wire that holds the bottle to his tub. He's only happy if we take a moment and play tug back with him, if we don't he'll stand there tugging away on his wire waiting for us to remember to tug back.

Rats really are quite fascinating and there's a lot of laughs having a colony of them. Apparently a group of rats is called a "mischief" and it certainly applies. LOL

lol , the tugging thing is funny ! fred (my big pew at work ) will emediately dump his food dish and turn it upside down so he can stand on it . this lets him look out the top of the bin while i feed the other bins . he will also hide the (in his opinion) best food under the bowl so the females cant get to it .

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Originally Posted by markface

lol , the tugging thing is funny ! fred (my big pew at work ) will emediately dump his food dish and turn it upside down so he can stand on it . this lets him look out the top of the bin while i feed the other bins . he will also hide the (in his opinion) best food under the bowl so the females cant get to it .

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OK, been meaning to ask this for some time everytime I see someone say PEW - sorry for the OT post.

PEW = Pink Eyed White - correct? Isn't that a fancy way to say albino, or is it truly something different?

yes pew is pink eyed white . not a true albino as they will have more of a ruby colored eyes i believe . i could be wrong though .

Yes, PEW's are pink-eyed white, AKA albino. Mix them with darker colors and you get pink-eyed dilutes(PED) or red-eyed dilutes(RED, you use red-eyed whites, which are very different). Red-eyed whites are much like black eyed whites, in that they are a marking and not a color mutation. Very cool stuff :)

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Originally Posted by rabernet

PEW = Pink Eyed White - correct? Isn't that a fancy way to say albino, or is it truly something different?

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http://www.afrma.org/pewrats.htm

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Yes, PEW's are pink-eyed white, AKA albino. Mix them with darker colors and you get pink-eyed dilutes(PED) or red-eyed dilutes(RED, you use red-eyed whites, which are very different). Red-eyed whites are much like black eyed whites, in that they are a marking and not a color mutation. Very cool stuff :)

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see , i knew i was some what wrong :P