Who should be punished?

Instead of hi-jacking the thread about that lady who wants to ban all exotics(in the general herps section) i thought i would post here.The issue come up because i posted that people who do stupid things with there large snakes(release,scare people and such) and i called them ignorant.A fellow user(sorry forgot user name) responded and said i should not call these people ignorant.He/She also mentioned about pit bulls attacking people in the same thread.Well i have a staff/pit male and a red nose pit female so i mentioned my opinion on the TRUTH involving the breeds.In my experiance its not the breed that kills its the IDIOTS who starved them and mistreated them that should be punished.I am not trying to get any fights or such started with this thread i just want everyones opinion(vote) on these issues.I think instead of banning the exotics and putting the pit bulls to sleep the IGNORANT people who mistreat them should be banned or put to sleep.Thank You

Since this is a family oriented board I can't really say what should be done to those owners but an interesting site for all to read is here.

http://www.workingpitbull.com/activities.htm

and for those who don't want to spend time browsing the following pages are good though I do warn that they aren't for the faint of heart.

http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

http://www.workingpitbull.com/whydodogsbite.htm

http://www.workingpitbull.com/fatalbook.htm

This type of thing should be on a case by case basis. Just my two cents. Because (useing the dogs as an example) dog attackes little old lady or kid just walking down the street and no owner there or owner can't control dog..BAD DOG & OWNER man takes a swing at my wife and my Rottie takes his arm off because of it GOOD DOG & AND OUCHIE FOR BAD MAN . Both times ended in a dog bite one is totally different from the other.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

This type of thing should be on a case by case basis. Just my two cents. Because (useing the dogs as an example) dog attackes little old lady or kid just walking down the street and no owner there or owner can't control dog..BAD DOG & OWNER man takes a swing at my wife and my Rottie takes his arm off because of it GOOD DOG & AND OUCHIE FOR BAD MAN . Both times ended in a dog bite one is totally different from the other.

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Ed,i understand your veiw here.I just have on bit to add to that example.A dog is only as bad as the owner allows it to get.If a dog is trained from a puppy it will never get out of the owners control.I started working with our dogs from the time they were old enough to understand my commands.With a few words i can have both dogs sit and not move a muscle.I can also make them behave to where a visitor can pet them without fearing of getting bit,I.E Tim & Monica Bailey(muddoc) visited a few months back and was able to pet both dogs.Now if they tried to enter our yard without me noticeing them they would not get the same greeting from our dogs.When a dog is protecting his owners or his home then YES good dog.

My Dad has someone that works for him whos 2 year old son was mauled and killed by a Pit bull, just a few weeks ago. It wasn't the dogs fault, it was the owner, let them out and had trained them to be aggressive twards other people and they went and killed an inocent child. I think the owners should be neuterd/spayed. The dogs are just doing what they have bien taught to do.


As for the bad snake owners.....spay/neuter/ban them!! The world would be a better place! Or we could let there giant snake eat them.:D

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Ed,i understand your veiw here.I just have on bit to add to that example.A dog is only as bad as the owner allows it to get.If a dog is trained from a puppy it will never get out of the owners control.I started working with our dogs from the time they were old enough to understand my commands.With a few words i can have both dogs sit and not move a muscle.I can also make them behave to where a visitor can pet them without fearing of getting bit,I.E Tim & Monica Bailey(muddoc) visited a few months back and was able to pet both dogs.Now if they tried to enter our yard without me noticeing them they would not get the same greeting from our dogs.When a dog is protecting his owners or his home then YES good dog.

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Same way with my Blue heeler and Border collie, I trained the Border collie bieng that he is my dog. He can sit and lay down and do alot of things, bieng as smart as most 4 year olds he can do many many fun tricks, he knows sick'em for an intruder or my little brother.:D Another good thing s to spay and neuter your dog, they wont get out insearch of a mate and wont be as agressive.


It all comes down to training your dog in a good way.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

My Dad has someone that works for him whos 2 year old son was mauled and killed by a Pit bull, just a few weeks ago. It wasn't the dogs fault, it was the owner, let them out and had trained them to be aggressive twards other people and they went and killed an inocent child. I think the owners should be neuterd/spayed. The dogs are just doing what they have bien taught to do.


As for the bad snake owners.....spay/neuter/ban them!! The world would be a better place! Or we could let there giant snake eat them.:D

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Justin,was the kid in the yard when he let the dogs out? If so was the owner of the dogs aware of the kid being in the yard? I am not saying that makes it ok,just pointing out that the dogs were doing what they were trained to do(like you said).Now your last sentence(let the snakes eat them) could be used against us as it sounds like we could approve of letting large snakes hurting people.Of course we know what you meant here but others might not.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Ed,i understand your veiw here.I just have on bit to add to that example.A dog is only as bad as the owner allows it to get.If a dog is trained from a puppy it will never get out of the owners control.I started working with our dogs from the time they were old enough to understand my commands.With a few words i can have both dogs sit and not move a muscle.I can also make them behave to where a visitor can pet them without fearing of getting bit,I.E Tim & Monica Bailey(muddoc) visited a few months back and was able to pet both dogs.Now if they tried to enter our yard without me noticeing them they would not get the same greeting from our dogs.When a dog is protecting his owners or his home then YES good dog.

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Joe I totaly agree in the end its my option that the owner is responsiable for the actions of the animals they keep. Back to the snakes. I only have one aggressive animal right now and I think its just moving jitters. I would never bring that animal around people acting like that. I have seen far to many video's of people getting bit by other peoples snakes because of the owners not paying attention.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Justin,was the kid in the yard when he let the dogs out? If so was the owner of the dogs aware of the kid being in the yard? I am not saying that makes it ok,just pointing out that the dogs were doing what they were trained to do(like you said).Now your last sentence(let the snakes eat them) could be used against us as it sounds like we could approve of letting large snakes hurting people.Of course we know what you meant here but others might not.

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Nope, he was on a side walk and the dogs came running down the street and mauled the kid, the boy was outside of his own house! I was only kidding about the let the snake eat him, people don't seem very neutritious.:D

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I think instead of banning the exotics and putting the pit bulls to sleep the IGNORANT people who mistreat them should be banned or put to sleep.Thank You

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Unfortunately for you, philosophy of law places a value on human life greater than what you express here. I'm not sure if your beliefs are reflected literally by that statement, but reflects on your character nonetheless.

There wasn't an option for "no banning/government regulation," so I couldn't vote.

I believe that education and public awareness works much better than regulation. If people are made aware of and understand certain issues about exotics or breeds of dogs, instances like those discussed above will decline.

In the end though, there's always going to be ignorant people out there who wouldn't know how to absorb good information if it hit them in the face. Those ignorant people, like it or not, banned or not banned, are going to aquire pit bulls and exotics.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Same way with my Blue heeler and Border collie, I trained the Border collie bieng that he is my dog. He can sit and lay down and do alot of things, bieng as smart as most 4 year olds he can do many many fun tricks, he knows sick'em for an intruder or my little brother.:D Another good thing s to spay and neuter your dog, they wont get out insearch of a mate and wont be as agressive.


It all comes down to training your dog in a good way.

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I can make a Taco Bell dog(cant spell its name lol) tear someone apart in seconds.I bet you can not guess what the number 1 dog is on the list of people getting bit by dogs.Its the BLACK LAB! On this list pit bulls are like 20 something.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I can make a Taco Bell dog(cant spell its name lol) tear someone apart in seconds.I bet you can not guess what the number 1 dog is on the list of people getting bit by dogs.Its the BLACK LAB! On this list pit bulls are like 20 something.

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I bet you I did.;) You and me both bro. My dad was a dog handler for the MP, he taught me alot and even helped me get my dog fistey during situations that are called for him to act.:carrot: Yay for dogs that are trained the right way to attack!

I have always found it funny that you have to get a license to own dogs and cats as such but no one needs a licences to have kids and we wonder why we have shuch problems if you do half of what you can to your kids they can and will take you in for animal cuerlty. I'm a firm believer in its the stupid owners and breeders fault punish them.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Unfortunately for you, philosophy of law places a value on human life greater than what you express here. I'm not sure if your beliefs are reflected literally by that statement, but reflects on your character nonetheless.

There wasn't an option for "no banning/government regulation," so I couldn't vote.

I believe that education and public awareness works much better than regulation. If people are made aware of and understand certain issues about exotics or breeds of dogs, instances like those discussed above will decline.

In the end though, there's always going to be ignorant people out there who wouldn't know how to absorb good information if it hit them in the face. Those ignorant people, like it or not, banned or not banned, are going to aquire pit bulls and exotics.

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Brad,sorry i left that choice out.I dont personaly feel a dog or a snake life is worth more then a human life.I am just tired of hearing that pit bulls are born to kill or all large snakes are killers also.When ever something happens (dog attack) the media allways jumps and writes the dog was a pit bull,majority of the attacks the dog does not even have pit blood or even look like a pit.The large constrictors that hurt or kill someone were not properly housed(bricks on lid or such) or they are not properly fed and escape to look for food.I agree if the general public was aware of the truth(pits and snakes) the world would be better.The problem is though majority of those people do not want to hear the truth about pits or snakes.They prefer to think they are correct and we are freaks who keep killer dogs and snakes.If you were to show them same people a picture of several dogs they could not pick out the pit bull.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Since this is a family oriented board I can't really say what should be done to those owners but an interesting site for all to read is here.

http://www.workingpitbull.com/activities.htm

and for those who don't want to spend time browsing the following pages are good though I do warn that they aren't for the faint of heart.

http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

http://www.workingpitbull.com/whydodogsbite.htm

http://www.workingpitbull.com/fatalbook.htm

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Brilliant links; thanks. I'm sitting here just bawling. We've cleaned up a few fighting dogs, but they're hard to rehab. The group we work with now refuses all pits and pit mixes ever since they had a bait dog (lovely sweet black and white girl; wanted to be in your lap all the time) abruptly attack and severely damage a privately owned dog as the two passed each other on lead in a corridor.
They are phenomenal animals; devoted, loyal, and courageous. I've had one with two broken legs drag himself across the floor so he could put his head in my lap and I've seen them arrive shredded from cars, fights or bullet wounds but still wagging their tails and trying to reach up and give kisses as we gurney them in.
I've received six bites from dogs so far...five from toy/companion dogs under 25lbs, and one from an ACD. I've met hundreds of pits, and exactly one of them was human-agressive. Compare that to the dozens of Chis, Min Pins, assorted small terriers, and those bloody Cocker Spaniels and Doxies who bite constantly but get away with it because people think it's cute or funny or harmless.
I'd rather work with a sick/injured pit than any other breed; they have infinite patience and forgiveness for the pain and indignities we must subject them to in the course of treatment.

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

Brilliant links; thanks. I'm sitting here just bawling. We've cleaned up a few fighting dogs, but they're hard to rehab. The group we work with now refuses all pits and pit mixes ever since they had a bait dog (lovely sweet black and white girl; wanted to be in your lap all the time) abruptly attack and severely damage a privately owned dog as the two passed each other on lead in a corridor.
They are phenomenal animals; devoted, loyal, and courageous. I've had one with two broken legs drag himself across the floor so he could put his head in my lap and I've seen them arrive shredded from cars, fights or bullet wounds but still wagging their tails and trying to reach up and give kisses as we gurney them in.
I've received six bites from dogs so far...five from toy/companion dogs under 25lbs, and one from an ACD. I've met hundreds of pits, and exactly one of them was human-agressive. Compare that to the dozens of Chis, Min Pins, assorted small terriers, and those bloody Cocker Spaniels and Doxies who bite constantly but get away with it because people think it's cute or funny or harmless.
I'd rather work with a sick/injured pit than any other breed; they have infinite patience and forgiveness for the pain and indignities we must subject them to in the course of treatment.

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ACDs can put a woopin to ya! And them cockers...jeez, one of my friends had a cocker it got out and bit a kid, and she got put to sleep.

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

Brilliant links; thanks. I'm sitting here just bawling. We've cleaned up a few fighting dogs, but they're hard to rehab. The group we work with now refuses all pits and pit mixes ever since they had a bait dog (lovely sweet black and white girl; wanted to be in your lap all the time) abruptly attack and severely damage a privately owned dog as the two passed each other on lead in a corridor.
They are phenomenal animals; devoted, loyal, and courageous. I've had one with two broken legs drag himself across the floor so he could put his head in my lap and I've seen them arrive shredded from cars, fights or bullet wounds but still wagging their tails and trying to reach up and give kisses as we gurney them in.
I've received six bites from dogs so far...five from toy/companion dogs under 25lbs, and one from an ACD. I've met hundreds of pits, and exactly one of them was human-agressive. Compare that to the dozens of Chis, Min Pins, assorted small terriers, and those bloody Cocker Spaniels and Doxies who bite constantly but get away with it because people think it's cute or funny or harmless.
I'd rather work with a sick/injured pit than any other breed; they have infinite patience and forgiveness for the pain and indignities we must subject them to in the course of treatment.

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Jess,my wifes uncle saved our staff/pit half sister from people who used her as the "bait" dog and until i met her i was afraid of the bred.Its sad what happened to her and until this day she has never made one single act towards being aggresive.Its sad that dog attacked the other dog.I also had my share of dealing with the ankle bitters and the owners who think its cute.I will always have a pit or a staff or a mix of the two as long as i am alive.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Jess,my wifes uncle saved our staff/pit half sister from people who used her as the "bait" dog and until i met her i was afraid of the bred.Its sad what happened to her and until this day she has never made one single act towards being aggresive.Its sad that dog attacked the other dog.I also had my share of dealing with the ankle bitters and the owners who think its cute.I will always have a pit or a staff or a mix of the two as long as i am alive.

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It can be hard to get ankle bitters out of habit. Exspesialy if they have bien on a farm with livestock for a long time. I have never had a problem with it, because my Border collie hasn't lived on a farm for very long, and my blue heeler was discoraged from heel biting at a young age.

there is good and bad in everything. some people/animals are simply born with a bad attitude. some say it's nature, other say it's nurture. i say it depends on the specific case.

should there be a ban?

i'm not into 'bans' - it throws the baby out with the bath water!

This is a great thread. It goes along the lines of people who say your ball pythons can kill you... Ignorance is bliss.
I see alot of ignorance when it comes to this breed of dog, Standing at my childrens school to pick them up a girl walks up with a beautiful pit mix, and a teacher walks up and informs her that since these dogs are so vicious they are not allowed on the property. Yet two women stood there one with a min pin the other with a chichuaua both barking and growling like crazy, they werent asked to take their dogs off the property. But the pit had never given a tug on her leash much less made a sound. I was truley disgusted.
We recently got a pit/english bulldog/lab mix. He is the sweetest dog. He plays with our children. When he goes outside there are dogs all around us that bark at him like crazy he does his buissness and comes right back in, he never barks back at them. He is about 1 year old and thinks he is still a puppy. When my family heard we got the dog all I heard was he's gonna attack the children how dumb are you and such. They never stop to take into account that these cases where attacks occur are 9 times out of 10 the owners abuse and neglect that caused these actions.
When we take him to our uncles house his Corgy does nothing but raise her lip and snap at him and try to herd him to where she wants him, takes toys and treats from him as well, he has never so much as growled at her. he just walks away like a lil one who had just been chatised by its mother.
Just my :2cent: worth on this matter..

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...3/100_0339.jpg


This is him about 2 weeks after we got him, he stole my resting spot when I was sick, while I was getting some lunch. He's a big momma's boy lol

Just today on the news at 12 I heard a attack from a pitbull, it wasn't an attack, the locksmith was trying to get into the house for some sort of bust(not dog related) and the guy sicked the dog on them and it ran at the locksmith and a cop was right behinde and pulled out a gun and shot his own foot, and they take the dog away......I think I shoudl email the news place..

I personally think ANY dog that bites or is uncontrolled should be taken away. (With the exception being trained guard/attack dogs, doing their duty)
However I will point out the reasont hat regulations are coming into effect is that while a chihuahua might bite more often, a chihuahua has never to my knowledge killed a human. Same with most breeds. The large dogs like pitts, rotties, dobermans, they do SO much damage in a bite/attack that they need to be trained MUCH more strictly.
I find it odd that someone felt it neccessary to "Train their dogs to sit still so someone could pet them" when most dogs LIKE to be petted and fussed over. Anyone who allows their dog to run loose and the dog bites anyone, should have that dog removed and be forbidden to have dogs. A dog should NEVER attack a human unles trained to do and TOLD to do so. A "guard" dog doesn't neccesarily rush out and attack someone that enters their territory. There is a massive difference in a dog that barks and MIGHT bite if a intruder comes in, and a dog that attacks viciously ANYONE who enters an area it can get to. If you cannot take your dog on a leash to walk past people without it attempting to bite them, YOUR DOG is uncontrolled and you should work on its training.
To my mind, a unprovoked attack by a dog on a human is grounds for the dog to be put to sleep. I say "unprovoked" because if a dog is kicked or slapped at or has someone waving a stick at it, or has its owner threatened or assaulted, it obviously changes the equation.
A child should never be in danger from a dog.
If you cannot train your "pet" than you shouldn't have it.
NOW: As to large snakes. I'm terribly sorry but a well-fed, well-housed giant python will be almsot as likely to bite and/or injure a human as any. Pythons do not learn to love a human. They are not a pack animal that sees you as another python. The best-cared for giant python could kill a unwary or ignorant person. Its simply the reptiles nature to strike sometimes. I don't believe they are dangerous to intelligent, well-informed owners, but I also do not think that every python that grabs someone and tries to coil them is starved and in poor conditions. Sometimes a snake just bites. My ball pythons sometimes strike out, thinking of food, perhaps they were asleep and startled.. etc. The difference is, that some people won't make that difference that a cornsnake isn't going to injure you, while a fully grown retic just might do you in.
The media is ALL about what sells. You can't trust it, but it seems most of mainstream america will believe whatever they see on tv.
Wolfy

That is one thing that is a problem. Whenever there is a dog attack they instantly label it 'PIT BULL' without checking the facts. I remember at least two instances where they had to come back and admit that it wasn't a pit in the attacks. Once it was a border collie and once was GSD/Lab mix. The presses do the same thing with snakes and pit types. They sensationalize everything to get a response and don't bother checking their facts.

There is a pet store near here. On the door is a sign that says "Pets welcome on leash, MUST muzzle agressive dogs such as pit bulls".
I have no problem with dogs on leashes, I have no real problem with muzzling (though I sure as heck wouldn't take my dog there if she was out here with me) but the fact that they 1. singled the pit types out and 2. helped spread the myth of 'AGGRESSIVE DOGS' is what irks me.
Darn it if someones pit has to be muzzled why doesn't the other lady have to muzzle her Akita? Just not right.
When I was teaching dog obedience I had a lot of the 'scary' dogs. Dobes, Rotts, Staffies... I loved working with them and at our end of training period show a lot of people were concerned about them being there yet every year the majority of people would be shocked at how lovable these breeds were.
The problems caused in my training were mostly by the small breeds. Border Collies, Shelties, Beagles and the dreaded cockers (though I must admit I had some perfect gems in these breeds that I'd LOVE to own). A lab here and there would have issues and I had two dog agressive PTs (pit types) show up on their logger chain leashes dragging their owners everywhere. I told them ditch the 'thug' wear on the dogs and get a real training collar and leash and I'd work with them seperately.
They both left.
One came back the next week with the proper gear. Sad thing is he really thought that pits had to be trained the way he started out...it's nuts. While I couldn't really make his dog truly trustworthy around other dogs (by my opinion and I'm darn picky) at the end of the season he did have all his commands downpat and executed them beautifully.

The dog is what we make it.

I believe there are not that much responsible pet owners.. and think if you are not responsible and love and care Gods creatures I believe that also sumerizes who you are as a person and sorry if this offends I believe all those Haters in the worlds should be put to death, I believe only the good and innocent should live. And if that cannot be accomplished because of Man rules he sets for himself I DO believe ALL exotic pet and all pets in general should banned, and only people who pass a written test after they studied the animal they want should be allowed to keep and/or breed them. Sorry if this opinion of mine offends or upsets but I think it would be for the better of people and animals.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

That is one thing that is a problem. Whenever there is a dog attack they instantly label it 'PIT BULL' without checking the facts. I remember at least two instances where they had to come back and admit that it wasn't a pit in the attacks. Once it was a border collie and once was GSD/Lab mix. The presses do the same thing with snakes and pit types. They sensationalize everything to get a response and don't bother checking their facts.

There is a pet store near here. On the door is a sign that says "Pets welcome on leash, MUST muzzle agressive dogs such as pit bulls".
I have no problem with dogs on leashes, I have no real problem with muzzling (though I sure as heck wouldn't take my dog there if she was out here with me) but the fact that they 1. singled the pit types out and 2. helped spread the myth of 'AGGRESSIVE DOGS' is what irks me.
Darn it if someones pit has to be muzzled why doesn't the other lady have to muzzle her Akita? Just not right.
When I was teaching dog obedience I had a lot of the 'scary' dogs. Dobes, Rotts, Staffies... I loved working with them and at our end of training period show a lot of people were concerned about them being there yet every year the majority of people would be shocked at how lovable these breeds were.
The problems caused in my training were mostly by the small breeds. Border Collies, Shelties, Beagles and the dreaded cockers (though I must admit I had some perfect gems in these breeds that I'd LOVE to own). A lab here and there would have issues and I had two dog agressive PTs (pit types) show up on their logger chain leashes dragging their owners everywhere. I told them ditch the 'thug' wear on the dogs and get a real training collar and leash and I'd work with them seperately.
They both left.
One came back the next week with the proper gear. Sad thing is he really thought that pits had to be trained the way he started out...it's nuts. While I couldn't really make his dog truly trustworthy around other dogs (by my opinion and I'm darn picky) at the end of the season he did have all his commands downpat and executed them beautifully.

The dog is what we make it.

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Bordercollies are hard to train with other dogs/distractions around, I see were you were having trouble!!

Well C&T the problem with that is who is going to decide who is fit to own? You? The guy next door? The government? (excuse me while I laugh a bit).
There are a lot of problems, but the moment we give even more control to legislation where does that leave us? Our rights slowly being eaten away.
There is no real answer for this, WE need to regulate ourselves and not always expect someone else to do it for us.
There is a huge debate on some of the horse boards I frequent as to whether breeding stock should be subjected to certain qualifications and breeders have to pass a certain criteria.
Sure, this sounds all peachy due to the current overbreeding problem but once again who is to decide all this? Who should we give our rights to?

Sorry, I do not support your idea. It sounds positive in theory but the more you think about it the more you realize how much you'd be giving up and I personally am not prepared to do that.

There are quite a few areas trying to implement a spay/neuter plan. While in essense this sounds great and I really tend to support anything that helps with overpopulation (if you'd ever seen a room of dogs waiting to be gassed you would too) it just makes me very uncomfortable that they are trying to take away our choices as owners. However if a few more owners would grab a clue it wouldn't be going this way so...

Justin. Border collies aren't really a problem most of the time. However ALL dogs should be properly socialized and trained well enough to work through a distraction. I do not make excuses based on breed. And the trouble with the ones I mentioned above was that they were agressive towards other dogs and some people which is not in any way shape or form acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Justin. Border collies aren't really a problem most of the time. However ALL dogs should be properly socialized and trained well enough to work through a distraction. I do not make excuses based on breed. And the trouble with the ones I mentioned above was that they were agressive towards other dogs and some people which is not in any way shape or form acceptable.

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No excuses, I was just agreeing with you. I had to train my border collie with just me, then I had a ball, then my family, than another dog, and now he will focus on me better than ever. Yes aggression twards other dogs/people is not acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Sinsation

This is a great thread. It goes along the lines of people who say your ball pythons can kill you... Ignorance is bliss.
I see alot of ignorance when it comes to this breed of dog, Standing at my childrens school to pick them up a girl walks up with a beautiful pit mix, and a teacher walks up and informs her that since these dogs are so vicious they are not allowed on the property. Yet two women stood there one with a min pin the other with a chichuaua both barking and growling like crazy, they werent asked to take their dogs off the property. But the pit had never given a tug on her leash much less made a sound. I was truley disgusted.
We recently got a pit/english bulldog/lab mix. He is the sweetest dog. He plays with our children. When he goes outside there are dogs all around us that bark at him like crazy he does his buissness and comes right back in, he never barks back at them. He is about 1 year old and thinks he is still a puppy. When my family heard we got the dog all I heard was he's gonna attack the children how dumb are you and such. They never stop to take into account that these cases where attacks occur are 9 times out of 10 the owners abuse and neglect that caused these actions.
When we take him to our uncles house his Corgy does nothing but raise her lip and snap at him and try to herd him to where she wants him, takes toys and treats from him as well, he has never so much as growled at her. he just walks away like a lil one who had just been chatised by its mother.
Just my :2cent: worth on this matter..

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...3/100_0339.jpg


This is him about 2 weeks after we got him, he stole my resting spot when I was sick, while I was getting some lunch. He's a big momma's boy lol

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Thats a sweet looking "killer" you have there lmao :cool: .

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Just today on the news at 12 I heard a attack from a pitbull, it wasn't an attack, the locksmith was trying to get into the house for some sort of bust(not dog related) and the guy sicked the dog on them and it ran at the locksmith and a cop was right behinde and pulled out a gun and shot his own foot, and they take the dog away......I think I shoudl email the news place..

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Justin,this is a PERFECT example of how the pits are used wrong and all the news cares is a pit was involved nothing else.Thanks for posting it.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Justin,this is a PERFECT example of how the pits are used wrong and all the news cares is a pit was involved nothing else.Thanks for posting it.

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No problem. Any time.:D

I am not trying to cause a fight or pick on anyone here.I noticed 1 person marked that pits should be put to sleep.I ask that person this,have you ever been around a pit that was properly trained or cared for? Some people are unable to notice if a said dog is a pit or not until they are told its true breed.I have had numerous people say our dogs are so well behaved and loving when they ask what type of dog they are they are shocked when i say staff/pit and pit.It makes me very mad when people tell me i should make my dogs freindly towards everyone.I tell them so because my dogs are pit or pit mixes they should be freindly to everyone huh? So its ok for a burgler to break into my home and my dogs should allow this.Sorry not going to happen! My yard is fenced in and if someone enters my yard without permission then my dogs are doing there jobs when they react.I have my dogs for companionship and protection just like everyone else.I am sorry if this offends some but why should my dogs be trained how others think they should act? They are my dogs and they are under my control and they stay in there yard and thats all that should matter.Just like my snakes are properly housed and cared for.To many people worry about what so and so down the street has or is doing when they should mind there own business and live there own lives.If someones dogs are not bothering you or that person has snakes you never see then you should mind your own business.Its not like people just started keeping pit bulls or snakes,just certain people became nosy over the last few years.

I also want to hear!!

Let me start out by saying that this is a great thread...


It's nice to see so many people are pro pitbull around here. Unfortunately the media jumps all over fighting rings and dog bites, immediately blame a pit, and BAM - the country has been brainwashed to think that pits are aggressive.

But when the family goes out and buys a POODLE or a DALMATIAN cause it looks cute on TV - they can be up for a surprise. ANY breed of dog will have sweethearts and aggressors. It's what the owners do or don't do after discovering the dog's behavioral issues is that causes a problem. Unfortunately, too many semiagressive to aggressive dog owners find it easier to take the "ignorance is bliss" route rather than getting their dog the help it needs, and thats when we hear about dogs getting loose and mauling other dogs or worse, people.
There are several unfortunate factors to this situation:
*the people, dogs or other beloved pets getting hurt
*the aggressive dog gets punished or killed, when they were never taught how to behave properly in the first place...how the heck does the dog know biting is wrong if nobody has never taught him??
*the idiot owners of these dogs who either intentionally ignored the dogs aggressiveness or purposely TAUGHT them to be aggressive are not banned from owning dogs again, and the cycle continues. Sure, some get fines or whatnot, depending on what exactly happened, but there is no follow-through system with these people to make sure it doesn't happen again.

The animals have NO idea whats right or wrong until someone teaches them otherwise. Its the owners JOB as a "PARENT" to make sure their animal - dog, snake, whatever, behaves if they plan on bringing it around people. So, ban the animals that the country has been brainwashed to believe are aggressive?? NOOOO - i agree that snake giants should NOT be handed out like rock candy, and permits are warranted for these types of pets. The animal should not be punished, humans should be restricted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adizziedoll

Let me start out by saying that this is a great thread...


It's nice to see so many people are pro pitbull around here. Unfortunately the media jumps all over fighting rings and dog bites, immediately blame a pit, and BAM - the country has been brainwashed to think that pits are aggressive.

But when the family goes out and buys a POODLE or a DALMATIAN cause it looks cute on TV - they can be up for a surprise. ANY breed of dog will have sweethearts and aggressors. It's what the owners do or don't do after discovering the dog's behavioral issues is that causes a problem. Unfortunately, too many semiagressive to aggressive dog owners find it easier to take the "ignorance is bliss" route rather than getting their dog the help it needs, and thats when we hear about dogs getting loose and mauling other dogs or worse, people.
There are several unfortunate factors to this situation:
*the people, dogs or other beloved pets getting hurt
*the aggressive dog gets punished or killed, when they were never taught how to behave properly in the first place...how the heck does the dog know biting is wrong if nobody has never taught him??
*the idiot owners of these dogs who either intentionally ignored the dogs aggressiveness or purposely TAUGHT them to be aggressive are not banned from owning dogs again, and the cycle continues. Sure, some get fines or whatnot, depending on what exactly happened, but there is no follow-through system with these people to make sure it doesn't happen again.

The animals have NO idea whats right or wrong until someone teaches them otherwise. Its the owners JOB as a "PARENT" to make sure their animal - dog, snake, whatever, behaves if they plan on bringing it around people. So, ban the animals that the country has been brainwashed to believe are aggressive?? NOOOO - i agree that snake giants should NOT be handed out like rock candy, and permits are warranted for these types of pets. The animal should not be punished, humans should be restricted.

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I thank you for your input here.The problem with the "permits" issue is really a joke in my opinion.In Illinois we have to have a FOID(firearms identafication) in order to "legally" buy a gun,i can take ANYONE to certain parts of Peoria and you can buy ANY type of gun you want without any questions.I know guns are not dogs or snakes but it is a example of the "permit" stuff being worthless.It just gives the state more money period!

Yeah i guess it would be quite worthless if anyone can get one!!!

I don't have time to read everyone's posts but I have thoughts about banning breeds.

I'm personally believe in Cesar Millans methods of dog psychology and human training. Cesar came to America and seen that the majority of American owners did not know a thing about dog psycology or how to be a pack leader. I've read Cesars books and watched all his shows and I'm a firm believer that a lot of owners that may think they're treating their dogs right by spoiling and treating their dogs like human beings but may be damaging their dogs. People can give affection at the wrong times and encourage a behavior that is not good. Pitbulls are banned not only because of irresponsible owners but also because they are in fact a dangerous breed of dog. Bread to fight bears and other predators. Bread to be a fighting dog for thousands of years. I think that's the main reasoning behind the banning of the pitbull in many areas. This is just my opinion based on what I've read and seen over the years. You have to be more than just responsible when owning a dog such as a pitbull because they can potentially be so dangerous. I've helped raise pitbulls in the past and they can be very aggressive if you don't know what you're doing. They are also very territorial to the point of being dangerous to anyone thats not in their "pack".

As for exotics. I agree with banning some exotics such as lions, tigers and bears...oh my. (I know some people who keep lions as pets and have heard of others that have tigers and bears) These types of animals should be banned unless its under strict regulations. If they banned something like pythons I would have to disagree with that because I both love these animals and view them as a learning tool for all.

I've read through most of the replies on this and have to say I'm disappointed.

For those that said the smaller dogs tend to be more agressive, you're absolutely right. I work in a pet store, where we sell everything from chihuahuas to great danes, depending on what puppies are available at the time. Yes. We sell pits. And it breaks my heart every time someone shies away from the display of pit pull puppies talking about how they want a sweet dog.

I too have been bitten and nipped far more by smaller dogs. Dogs in general, as has been said, are only as mean as you allow them or train them to be. I've been around plenty of pet pit bulls who have been absolute sweethearts. Lily, a female pit I lived next to once upon a time, would even allow people to handle her newborn pups without a single growl. Now, if you messed with her family, like some kids did when they bullied the daughter, she would let you know she wasn't pleased. She would stand there and growl and bare her teeth, but she never once actually attacked anyone. She knew better than that.

At the same time, I've had girls with their little chihuahua accessories walk into the pet store, and had the chihuahuas try and take my fingers off as their owners handed me money to pay for whatever they were purchasing. And their owners never admonished them, just giggled and talked about how "cute mommy's little baby" was being.

Now, the exotic pet problem is a problem on it's own. We've had people come into the store asking if we know where they can buy a monkey or a bobcat or any number of other things. I think that it's people's own stupidity in that area. How do you expect a wild-born tiger to become a lap cat? That's just not going to happen.

Yeah I know first hand that smaller dogs are very aggressive. (Have been bitten by a few and a chihuahuas bite stings bad (god is struggled spelling that)). The only thing is I don't think Chihuahuas caused any fatalities. That's the biggest problem. The larger breeds potential to kill. That's why teaching and education is so important.

I've know people to come in asking where they can get wild animals like that. Some people just don't understand what is involved in caring for certain animals. There was an article about German Shepard X Wolf mixes. (I used to help raise one) The dogs were exibiting wild traits and a family came to take a look at the dogs. I believe it was a mother, father, and their young son. The dogs began circling the kid like he was prey. That's an interesting story because it shows that even if you try to breed certain animals and get behaviors out of them they are always going to have some of that wild instinct. People that want to own bobcats are probably not real animal enthusiaists because they would know that owning a bobcat as a pet would be an incredibly stupid idea.

A ban on any pet would be the same thing as a ban on all guns and firearms: only the criminals would have them, not the law-abiding citizens.

I am with elevatethis.............look up ignorant in the dictionary, and the first definition will most likely be "...a lack of knowledge". People do stuff and say stuff because they are lacking the knowledge of it. If people were educated about the nature of these things, we wouldn't be in the predicaments we have of today. I'm sure that the guy who trained his dog to be aggressive felt awful about what happened to the kid, and probably isn't like to do it again. At the same token, if people knew more about the REAL nature of our beloved pet snakes, they wouldn't fear and judge them as much as they do.

Now there are 5 votes for put the pits to sleep.
I have to admit I was the first vote, but by accident, since I thought the question was whether or not to put the dogs that attack a kid to sleep. When I tried to correct it, it wouldn't let me. So my vote for putting ALL pits to sleep is not valid. It needed that little word to clarify it.
Sorry about that. As to the additional 4 votes? Not mine, I dunno. But I stand by the opinion that dogs that attack people uncontrolled should be humanely put down. Yes, it IS the people's fault, but that doesn't make the dog any safer to have around people.
Wolfy

I said "The irresponsible owners should be put to sleep." People make dogs the way they are. I have friends who have pit bulls who have been properly trained and they are very sweet dogs. Yes, there are many dogs who would love to take a chomp out of you, but they weren't born that way. The owner raised it either neglectfully or wanted it to be aggressive. I think a lot of irrisponsible people buy pits because they're "badass" and tough looking. Not because they want to raise the dog into a loyal friend.

I would be interested in hearing the reasons for the other five votes to put pits to sleep. My opinion that pits are great dogs is not exactly popular on some of the boards I frequent and I take a lot of heat for it. However it is my firm belief so I stand up for it. Why won't you guys (and or gals)?

That said, there are simply too many dogs needing responsible homes and not enough homes to go around. Take a look at the CL for my local area http://seattle.craigslist.org/pet/ the amount of pit types are staggering.

I don't think pits need to be put to sleep. Although there are some dogs that are damaged to the point of not being able to be rehabilitated. I think a majority of the dogs out there with problems can be fixed if you have the patience.

I don't think that pits should just be automatically euthanized based on their breed; if their temperaments, just like with any other breed, are erratic and unpredictable, it might be best to put them down to prevent any tragedies that could occur.. I don't know.

I do understand the humane society rules regarding fighting dogs. If the dog has been used for fighting, then it is euthanized, rather than trying to rehab then placing it. I truely believe that once a fighting dog, never trusted again IN TYPICAL SOCIAL SETTINGS. I capitalize that to make the point that I KNOW some people have 'rehabbed' fighting dogs, and think they can totally trust them. I will not. I wouldn't rust that something would trigger that response i.e. a small dog rushing up or by, a small child screaming in glee as they run near the dog.. whatever. It's just tragedy waiting to happen. And more bad press. Better to humanely put the dog to sleep than to take the chance.
Pits in general can be great dogs. YOu just have to differentuate between 'fighting dogs' that have been conditioned and trained, and a pit or pitmix that has been riased in a loving home.
That said there is the occasional dog that is "Born bad" and nothing can be done. It's rare, and nasty. But I've seen two so far. They were raised wonderfully, and treated with love and affection, and even worked with extensive training, but they still turned on people, and were aggressive. And NEITHER that I have seen so far was pit, or pit mix. I personally think it is like some brain problem with those two dogs.
But I'd like to re-state, my vote was to put the CERTAIN pits(that have attacked people unwarrented) to sleep, NOT put ALL pits to sleep.
Wolfy

I have a pit who is a rescue and is probably the smartest and sweetest animal I have ever had the pleasure to be around. He is excellent with children (and reptiles) and goes to work with me everyday! Everyone is afraid of him when they first meet him but immediately warm up when they get to know him(all he really wants is a belly rub, can you blame him). The media has portrayed these animals as killers and that is not true or fair! Ignorant is the perfect word! Irresponsible peolpe who have snakes and dogs give EVERYONE a bad name. How many people ask you "Why would you have one of those for a pet?"
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I have a 3 year old male pit bull, from a shelter, and he is the sweetest dog. Yes, he barks at strangers (don't all dogs) and looks intimidating but he is the least people and animal agressive dog that I've seen.....(we ltrust him enough to let him lick the face of my 7 month old son....my son loves him)
I believe that its the irresponsible owners that train them to attack for the owners own insecurities or "street cred". I use to live in an urban ("ghetto") community...every street hoodlum had a pit with the thick chain collar and they were all bascially fighting dogs.....those are the people/dogs that give the breed a bad name....The dogs are tortured into being an agressive animal (I've heard from people on the street that they feed them broken glass and gunpowder to toughen them up) and it seems like a contest who can have the most agressive uncontrollable dog.....Because of people like that, My dog and I get discriminated against.....(now that I live in the suburbs I can't even tell my neighbors what type of dog he is..(I say boxer mix...LOL)

I'm sure I've posted my opinion on this before, but I will do it again. Just to remind everyone, I have two pit bulls, and a house full of exotics. I'm very careful with my dogs. Both of my boys are neutered, both have been through obdience training, and both are carefully monitored. They are treated with a lot of love and a lot of disipline. They are not allowed to disobey myself or my husband, and they know that. Pit bulls are very smart dogs, as well as being very stubborn. You have to be more stubborn than they are.