Kaplan to give speech on reptiles

OMG. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ilies/ack2.gif I couldn't believe it when I read it. A little blurb in the local town paper that Kaplan is coming to CT to give a speech on reptiles. The focus of the discussion is going to be conservation in the wild and how reptiles are exploited and misunderstood.

I am going to have to go. I have a feeling the real agenda is to be how to discourage people from owning reptiles. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...s/2232NoNo.gif

I thought Kaplan disappeared from the reptile scene (or was it just wishful thinking)?

Mwahahahah...


If I only lived in CT, I would go and protest HER!!!

You're talking about Melissa Kaplan, correct? I don't think she's opposed to keeping reptiles. I think she's opposed to people that don't know what they're doing keeping reptiles. If you do go come back and tell us the summary of what she talked about, or record it. :P I partly have to agree with her about owning reptiles. But I think at most there should be a partial ban of some species unless qualified to work with them. There really is something to be said about the number of reptiles dumped each year due to improper care and keepers that don't realize what it takes to keep these animals. Reptiles have been dumped to the degree of non-native species having stable populations in the southern united states. (fyi: stable populations of Iguanas a few other lizards and Burmese Pythons in florida and surrounding states.) I believe she does have a valid point but I don't not believe there should be an all-out ban on reptiles.

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Originally Posted by WTHbbqSnake

You're talking about Melissa Kaplan, correct? I don't think she's opposed to keeping reptiles. I think she's opposed to people that don't know what they're doing keeping reptiles. If you do go come back and tell us the summary of what she talked about, or record it. :P I partly have to agree with her about owning reptiles. But I think at most there should be a partial ban of some species unless qualified to work with them. There really is something to be said about the number of reptiles dumped each year due to improper care and keepers that don't realize what it takes to keep these animals. Reptiles have been dumped to the degree of non-native species having stable populations in the southern united states. (fyi: stable populations of Iguanas a few other lizards and Burmese Pythons in florida and surrounding states.) I believe she does have a valid point but I don't not believe there should be an all-out ban on reptiles.

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Melissa Kaplan is on record stating that exotics should never be kept as pets.

12 million dogs and cats are euthanized each year in the US, why don't you start fixing that problem before you go deciding what reptiles should and should not be allowed to be kept as pets.

-adam

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I partly have to agree with her about owning reptiles. But I think at most there should be a partial ban of some species unless qualified to work with them.

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And who decides that? You? Melissa? Some government official that doesn't know the difference between a reticulated python and a garter snake? I disagree with any kind of ban, partial or not. The LAST thing any of us need in our lives is more government meddling

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Originally Posted by MarkS

And who decides that? You? Melissa? Some government official that doesn't know the difference between a reticulated python and a garter snake? I disagree with any kind of ban, partial or not. The LAST thing any of us need in our lives is more government meddling

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Bravo!

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile!!!!!!

-adam

I was going to say something here, But Mark and Adam have it covered!!

I'm all for responsible ownership, exotic or not!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

I was going to say something here, But Mark and Adam have it covered!!

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But Jas, you always say it soooo much better ... let er rip brother! :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by MarkS

And who decides that? You? Melissa? Some government official that doesn't know the difference between a reticulated python and a garter snake? I disagree with any kind of ban, partial or not. The LAST thing any of us need in our lives is more government meddling

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Right-on, brother.
I never really knew much about M. Kaplan; just basically thought she typed up caresheets, etc..
That's all we don't need in this hobby, is any focus on anything negative about reptiles; the general public will latch on and think that it IS bad to keep them.. we don't need that.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

But Jas, you always say it soooo much better ... let er rip brother! :sweeet:

-adam

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You want me gone from here that bad? LOL

Take a stroll over to Fauna and search her name - you'll find all sorts of interesting information about her "real" agenda!

What is Melissa Kaplan about? I haven't heard of her before this post. Basically a pseudo PETA member, except only for reptiles?

EDIT: Oh wait, I just did a google search and found out that she created anapsid.org. :P

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Originally Posted by JasonGranger

What is Melissa Kaplan about? I haven't heard of her before this post. Basically a pseudo PETA member, except only for reptiles?

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Check out her site if you need info about her.

http://www.anapsid.org/

If she does want an all out ban then I wouldn't like that. But I still agree that something should be done about irresponsible owners if what's already being done isn't working. It'd be hard to enforce some things and would probably cost too much money. I also don't like the idea of owning venomous reptiles as pets but that's another issue. The Cats and Dogs issue is a problem as well. There are so many of them that need to be adopted it's incredible. Everyone knows this. The only way to stop that is to force people to get their dogs/cats spayed and neutered. And possibly limit the breeding of dogs/cats. Though these are just ideas. As for the government officials that don't know the difference. They should be made to know the difference. If they don't know the difference they shouldn't be involved in any decisions. It is possible to only ban certain species or breeds as seen with pitbulls in many areas.

Of course all of us on these forums wouldn't want a ban because we all own reptiles and some of us breed them for profit. I don't know if you think I'm all for a ban on all reptiles or not. That isn't the case. Ultimately if there is a decision made about a ban on reptiles then it doesn't matter what we think because it looks like we are the minority when it comes to the number of people who hate reptiles vs the number of those who love them. There's already a ban on exotics in some places. Mostly in larger cities. I think it would be close to impossible to stop irresponsible ownership. Anyone have any ideas or opinions about what could be done? I already knew what all of your responses to this topic would generally be but I also want your opinions on why there shouldn't be a ban on dangerous animals such as large and/or venomous reptiles.

Back to the original topic. I previously thought that she was for reptile hobbyists but I guess I was wrong. She seems very knowledgable about reptiles but never read anything on her site about her agenda. Mostly read her articles about animal care. So I figured she was all about teaching people to care for reptiles as part of this hobby. It'd be interesting to hear what she has to say though.

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Originally Posted by WTHbbqSnake

If she does want an all out ban then I wouldn't like that. But I still agree that something should be done about irresponsible owners if what's already being done isn't working. It'd be hard to enforce some things and would probably cost too much money. I also don't like the idea of owning venomous reptiles as pets but that's another issue. The Cats and Dogs issue is a problem as well. There are so many of them that need to be adopted it's incredible. Everyone knows this. The only way to stop that is to force people to get their dogs/cats spayed and neutered. And possibly limit the breeding of dogs/cats. Though these are just ideas. As for the government officials that don't know the difference. They should be made to know the difference. If they don't know the difference they shouldn't be involved in any decisions. It is possible to only ban certain species or breeds as seen with pitbulls in many areas.

Of course all of us on these forums wouldn't want a ban because we all own reptiles and some of us breed them for profit. I don't know if you think I'm all for a ban on all reptiles or not. That isn't the case. Ultimately if there is a decision made about a ban on reptiles then it doesn't matter what we think because it looks like we are the minority when it comes to the number of people who hate reptiles vs the number of those who love them. There's already a ban on exotics in some places. Mostly in larger cities. I think it would be close to impossible to stop irresponsible ownership. Anyone have any ideas or opinions about what could be done? I already knew what all of your responses to this topic would generally be but I also want your opinions on why there shouldn't be a ban on dangerous animals such as large and/or venomous reptiles.

Back to the original topic. I previously thought that she was for reptile hobbyists but I guess I was wrong. She seems very knowledgable about reptiles but never read anything on her site about her agenda. Mostly read her articles about animal care. So I figured she was all about teaching people to care for reptiles as part of this hobby. It'd be interesting to hear what she has to say though.

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The reason why there are certain bans on exotics is because NO ONE fought it! It DOES matter what WE think because we are TAX PAYERS! The bans do not happen in the BIG cities all the time,we have a decent sized town here in Illinois thats not far from myself that has a VERY stupid ban.The name of the town is Galesburg Illinois,because of some stupid LARGE constrictor owners mistake its now illegal to own ANY consticting snakes.This includes CORN SNAKES! Why did this ban go into affect? NO ONE FOUGHT IT! It does not matter if we keep OUR snakes for pets or profits,they are OUR reptiles! I thought we lived in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA! No one will EVER tell me what i can have or not have in MY home! Someone needs to inform that lady to get a life and stop trying to run OUR lives!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

You want me gone from here that bad? LOL

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Jas we got your back :cool: .Just use family freindly sentences to get your point across :8: .

Joepythons: I agree that is a stupid ban and I don't know why it wasn't fought. We may be taxpayers but we are still the minority. There are a whole lot of people that don't care if reptiles get banned or not. I don't know the rules on petitions or how many persons are needed to stop a ban. But if we can change some things then we should. If enough people fight something then bans can be stopped but increasingly there bans being placed on exotics all over the U.S. Some of us might be facing bans eventually. It's just a reality. I think they can tell you what you can or can't have because they do everyday. Thank god they havn't went too far yet.

But as you stated in your post people do make mistakes. That doesn't nessecarily mean they're stupid. All people make mistakes and unfortunately sometimes people die from certain mistakes. Here there has recently been a pitbull ban in the city. It happened because multiple people were getting killed by pitbulls. That's an instance where someone made a mistake and their dogs got loose and mauled several people. Even responsible owners can make a mistake. I'm one who thinks there will eventually be some sort of ban on exotics attempted where I live. Because when too many accidents happen in the same area they start to get noticed. There's no way to punish 90% of the irresponsible owners or the people who dump their animals because most are never caught. I think that's the reason they go for the all-out ban. That would eliminate any possiblity of irresponsible owners obtaining animals. I would like someone to respond to the questions in both posts though.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Jas we got your back :cool: .Just use family freindly sentences to get your point across :8: .

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Got his back. I thought this was a discussion not a fight. It seems like that everytime someone with a different opinion says something.

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Originally Posted by WTHbbqSnake

Joepythons: I agree that is a stupid ban and I don't know why it wasn't fought. We may be taxpayers but we are still the minority. There are a whole lot of people that don't care if reptiles get banned or not. I don't know the rules on petitions or how many persons are needed to stop a ban. But if we can change some things then we should. If enough people fight something then bans can be stopped but increasingly there bans being placed on exotics all over the U.S. Some of us might be facing bans eventually. It's just a reality. I think they can tell you what you can or can't have because they do everyday. Thank god they havn't went too far yet.

But as you stated in your post people do make mistakes. That doesn't nessecarily mean they're stupid. All people make mistakes and unfortunately sometimes people die from certain mistakes. Here there has recently been a pitbull ban in the city. It happened because multiple people were getting killed by pitbulls. That's an instance where someone made a mistake and their dogs got loose and mauled several people. Even responsible owners can make a mistake. I'm one who thinks there will eventually be some sort of ban on exotics attempted where I live. Because when too many accidents happen in the same area they start to get noticed. There's no way to punish 90% of the irresponsible owners or the people who dump their animals because most are never caught. I think that's the reason they go for the all-out ban. That would eliminate any possiblity of irresponsible owners obtaining animals. I would like someone to respond to the questions in both posts though.

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Whenever someone gets hurt or killed by a large constrictor it is because of the OWNERS IGNORANCE not the snakes fault ever.This type of person is the ones who have the large snakes and scare the little old lady next door because she calls the cops on them during there large beer parties(this happenened in Pekin Illinois right down the road from me).Who is to blame the snake or the ignorant owner? You say responsible owners make mistakes also right? I have never EVER had a single incadent involving any of my snakes in my 9+yrs of keeping snakes.I had a 13ft+ retic and a 12+ft burmese pythons(1 albino and 2 norms) during these years.Why i do not have these snakes now you might wonder,well the retic was getting to much for me to handle(cancer surgeries and such) ,the albino burm passed away and the 2 norms i traded for other snakes.I made sure they went to responsible homes also not to STATUS symbol people who would mistreat them.Since you mention pit bulls i will comment on them also.There are 0 attacks from pit bulls that are raised in a responsible loving familys.I have a staff/pit male and a red nose female so i know both breeds well.The dogs that attack people and such are the ones that are starved to death and mistreated to the point they do not know anything else but to kill.The same goes here who should take the blame,the dog or the idiot owner? The answers to both are the OWNERS!

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Originally Posted by WTHbbqSnake

Got his back. I thought this was a discussion not a fight. It seems like that everytime someone with a different opinion says something.

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I did not make this comment as a reason to fight i was just kidding with Jas nothing more.

The reason for bans are irresponsible owners and uneducated lawmakers.

Too many thug wannabe's buy snakes (and pit type dogs) trying to be 'cool, hip, intimidating and in' and they are the reason they have such raps. The idiots are the fault NOT the animals.

Entropy: I can agree with what you're saying but also there are animals that are just dangerous and has nothing to do with the humans. I think that is the reason bans are happening more and more. There's going to have to be a compromise between us in this hobby and the lawmakers that get to make all of the decisions about what animals we can and can't keep.


Joepythons: I understand now, Joe. Thanks for clearing that up. In response to your response :eek: I agree that it is never the snakes fault but also know that Human error and Human ignorance will always happen. That's something that will always be there. The only thing we can do about ignorance is teach. But there is nothing we can do about Human error. I think that's just how it is. If you sell a reptile to someone you can't keep tabs on that person to make sure they're treating their animal right. Or if they know what they're doing. That might be why some people are against breeders. I spoke with a lady the other day that was against breeders. Anyway. As for the pitbulls, I don't think you can prove that 0 attacks came from responsible owners. As I said before sometimes things just happen. My cousine has a pitbull and it has escaped once before. Not because he's irresponsible but because the pitbull dug under the fencing and got out. Fortunately noone was harmed because the pit was mild-mannered. I seen somewhere that 1 in 3 dogs escape and run away. Also there are naturally dominant dogs and others that take on the submissive role. The dominant dogs are going to be more aggressive and this is just something nature cooked up to ensure each species survival. Sure a pitbull can be kept and taught to not be aggressive or fearful but this is something that cannot be enforced. There are no laws that require an owner to teach their dog to be a certain way because there are so many different methods of dog training and psycology that views often conflict. Plus the use of guard dogs in various occupations and homes. Cesar Millan has learned to control his dogs and play the dominant role and his dogs respect that. I think we can all achieve this but some people just arn't willing to change.

Sorry I seem to be rambling but sometimes I have to get my thoughts out. I like to look at both sides of any argument.

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Originally Posted by WTHbbqSnake

Entropy: I can agree with what you're saying but also there are animals that are just dangerous and has nothing to do with the humans. I think that is the reason bans are happening more and more. There's going to have to be a compromise between us in this hobby and the lawmakers that get to make all of the decisions about what animals we can and can't keep.

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Personally, I support LESS government in our lives, not more. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by WTHbbqSnake

There's going to have to be a compromise between us in this hobby and the lawmakers that get to make all of the decisions about what animals we can and can't keep.

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In the entire history of the United States there has never been a single compromise between the government and any minority group that has worked out well for the minority ... fight for your rights as an American to keep what you want, where you want!

-adam

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Personally, I support LESS government in our lives, not more. :rolleyes:

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I do as well. I think all of us do. But sometimes that just isn't the case.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

In the entire history of the United States there has never been a single compromise between the government and any minority group that has worked out well for the minority ... fight for your rights as an American to keep what you want, where you want!

-adam

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I agree with you there, of course. Being an African American. But again, views will conflict. Noone has the right to keep what they want. And I think there should be a line drawn that says what you can and can't keep. I do not want my kids (if I had any) playing in an area where I know someone is keeping a dangerous animal as a pet. I guess you can only know how that feels once an animal has mauled an killed your child or family member.

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Originally Posted by WTHbbqSnake

I do as well. I think all of us do.

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But you contradict yourself in the next quote, you can't have it both ways.

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And I think there should be a line drawn that says what you can and can't keep.

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And who decides that? Lawmakers who are going to listen to the squeekiest wheels, which most likely will be those who are most afraid of all reptiles?

Again - less government, not more.

i dont agree with any legislation that bans any type of reptiles . if you let the government get away with banning one type of animal it just opens the door for them to ban more and more spiecies until we are no longer allowed to keep any . what really needs to be done is to promote education on reptiles and other exotics . there are far less incidents involving reptiles than there are dogs and cats . for every one death from snake bites or constriction there are several dozen caused by dogs . you hear about the ones involving reptiles more because it makes for much more sensational press than a dog killing someone , which in turn sells more newspapers or raises ratings more .

i agree that as tax payers we really need to stand up for our rights to keep whatever animals we want .

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Originally Posted by WTHbbqSnake

I agree with you there, of course. Being an African American.

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What the Hell made you bring that up?!?! You Feel Oppressed or something?

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

What the Hell made you bring that up?!?! You Feel Oppressed or something?

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He was probably responding to this, misinterpreting Adam to mean racial minority

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In the entire history of the United States there has never been a single compromise between the government and any minority group that has worked out well for the minority

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when in fact, I believe Adam was talking about minority in general - such as the reptile community is a minority in this country.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

In the entire history of the United States there has never been a single compromise between the government and any minority group that has worked out well for the minority ... fight for your rights as an American to keep what you want, where you want!

-adam

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Adam,i totaly agree :rockon:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

He was probably responding to this, misinterpreting Adam to mean racial minority



when in fact, I believe Adam was talking about minority in general - such as the reptile community is a minority in this country.

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Thats exactly what I thought Adam meant..

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Originally Posted by WTHbbqSnake

I guess you can only know how that feels once an animal has mauled an killed your child or family member.

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Using that logic, no one should be allowed to own a car because drunk drivers kill peoples children and family members every day in this country.

You should really read the constitution ... it's probably one of the most powerful and emotionally moving documents ever written ... I think it would change your view on what men smarter than you and I believed freedom to be.

-adam

The way I feel is that the only way to stop a ban is to lobby against it, but politics comes down to money, so unless your party (reptile enthuseist) have alot of money to use on this the bans will happen if they want them to. which sucks. about pitbulls- i personally will never own one or have my kids anywhere near one, i've now people that own them and everyone always said how mild mannered they are but some have snapped. the pitbull was breed into such, to be aggresive that was instilled in them yes by man but none the less even the mild mannered pit can snap. ive read and watch alot about these animals to come to that conculsion, but thats just MY opinion.

i have not been into keeping snake that long to say anything about dangerous breeds, i as a newbiee to the hobby would think of my own limition on keeping them before i get a retic or a venemos breed, but thats just me.

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I agree with you there, of course. Being an African American. But again, views will conflict. Noone has the right to keep what they want. And I think there should be a line drawn that says what you can and can't keep. I do not want my kids (if I had any) playing in an area where I know someone is keeping a dangerous animal as a pet. I guess you can only know how that feels once an animal has mauled an killed your child or family member.

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You can not pass knee jerk legislation in order to protect stupid people from themselves. All that is accomplished by this is to penalize responsible law abiding citizens. The truely stupid will continue to find new and unusual ways to try removing themselves from the gene pool.

Legislation should be passed in answer to real, not perceived, needs and should be based on actual statistics and hard data. Too often it seems to be based on the perceptions and fears of the unknowledgeable.

When you look at actual numbers, keeping reptiles is far far less dangerous then other recreational pastimes like skiing, bicycling, jogging... In fact many sports are probabaly far more dangerous then even keeping a large retic.

Mark

http://www.pijac.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=1

If you're interested in helping "fight the power".

DO WORK!

-adam

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You should really read the constitution ... it's probably one of the most powerful and emotionally moving documents ever written ... I think it would change your view on what men smarter than you and I believed freedom to be.

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Just in case anyone is wondering, here is a link to it.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/index.html

We need more herp keepers to get into politica, plain and simple. Fighting the government doesn't get you anywhere these days; now, get into the government, become it.. there you go.
I have said it before.. just like guns, if you completely ban anything (herps, marijuana, pink high heels, Orbit gum, trapper keepers, anything) it will be strictly in the hands of the criminals.