Feeding when snake has R.I.

ok me and my girlfriend just rescued a ball python from a girl that had no idea what she was doing... he has a severe case of R.I. i took him to the vet this afternoon.. he said he is very underweight and looks like he hasent eaten in a long time. according to the girl he may also be in shed... hes in rough shape but the vet said with the injections he'll pull through it... my question is the vet told me to try to get him to feed right away and keep trying untill he does eat. he just got his 1st injection so he is still kinda rough... i dont know if it would be good to try and feed when he is so conjested... i was wondering if anyone has had any experiance with this? any opinions would be apperiated!! i have other snakes but none of them have ever had R.I. let alone this bad of a case.

I would just leave him be, with minimal handling(only handle when cleaning the enclosure). Wait until a week after all of the injections are finished(as he is more prone to regurgitation at this time because the antibiotics are killing off the bad and the good bacteria) and then try to feed him a very small meal(hopper mouse or rat fuzzy).

What is his setup like right now? How are his temps and humidity and how are you measuring these? For your temps, I would aim for(and maintain at 24/7) 94-95 warm side and 84-85 cool side, with 55-65% humidity.

Setting him up in a small tub would be a good idea right now as winter just saps the humidity out of glass enclosures(not to mention, glass isn't a good insulator and you probably have wild temp swings-not good for any snake). I would go to WalMart and get a 27-32qt tub(or smaller depending on how big he is) that is about 6" high. In my snakes' tubs that aren't in a rack, I have newspaper as the substrate, a small water bowl, and two small identical hides.

Good luck with him, hopefully he can get over this infection quickly.

thank you backy you answered alot of questions i had... i seen that the humidity should be raised some places and lowered in others and i was very confused on this... he is in a small tub now with a small water bowl and two small hides...he never really goes in any of the hides...he just slithers around and sits with his head up... the vet told me to have the humidity around 80%... i thought this seemed high...anyone else with any info?

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Originally Posted by Kingspade

thank you backy you answered alot of questions i had... i seen that the humidity should be raised some places and lowered in others and i was very confused on this... he is in a small tub now with a small water bowl and two small hides...he never really goes in any of the hides...he just slithers around and sits with his head up... the vet told me to have the humidity around 80%... i thought this seemed high...anyone else with any info?

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If I'm not mistaken, You want to lower the humidity to help dry up the mucas, the opposite of people

Nope, raising the humidity helps to loosen up the mucus so it is easier to expel(like a humidifier or nebulizer for a child when they have pneumonia). Snakes don't have a diaphragm like we do, and are unable to cough. If the mucus dries up, it gets sticky, which makes the lungs unable to expand so they can breathe. When this decreased lung capacity occurs, the snake has to breathe more rapidly to get enough oxygen. If the infection is severe enough, the snake will eventually suffocate from the constricting, dried mucus.

60-70% is plenty, 65% should be sufficient enough to do its job. If he's not using his hides, make sure they're small enough. Also, if he's roaming his tub constantly, you can fill it to the top with loosly crumpled newspaper so he can settle down.

I have always had the best lowering the humidity.

it is a VERY ADVANCED case of R.I. i read that lowering the humidity when symptoms first show will help getting rid of it but this snake has been sick for sometime and has a very bad case... this topic seems to be very up in the air with people...that is why i am asking... raising it seemed to help because when we got him his mouth was stuck open and it was all dry and crusty and all he did was sit around... after getting him home and raising the temps and humidity he seemed to be doing a little better and some of the mucus was comming out... now the vet said raise the humidity to 80% i dont know but in my opinion thats to high...he also told me that temps should be between 80-90 when i knew that you should raise the temps to around 92-95 for the hot side.. anyone else with opinions??

Raise the humidity for a URI ... 80% is fine ... low humidity dries out the mucus and masks the symptoms but doesn't help anything ... just hides it ... humid air loosens the mucus to help the snake expell it easier and leads to faster healing.

In the "old days" people believed that lowering humidity helped ... we know much better now.

Not an opinion ... this is fact.

-adam

not disrespect to any one else who has posted... but IMO if adam says raise it to 80% that is what i'd do... without question.

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

not disrespect to any one else who has posted... but IMO if adam says raise it to 80% that is what i'd do... without question.

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I'd go with what Becky says ... she's wicked smart and ALWAYS posts good stuff!! :love:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

80% is fine
Not an opinion ... this is fact.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

65% should be sufficient enough to do its job.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I'd go with what Becky says ... she's wicked smart and ALWAYS posts good stuff!! :love:

-adam

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adam, aren't you contradicting yourself then? :P

Well, since Balls don't do well with the chicken soup(noodles get stuck in the straw), upping the humidity should do fine ;)

And thanks Adam, glad to know I get some things right every now and then :cool: We should have some good stuff to talk about at NARBC!

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

adam, aren't you contradicting yourself then? :P

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Nope. 65% is good ... 80% is good ... 20% is bad.

These are animals, not DVD players ... there is no manual for "making them work" ... it's a concept a lot of new keepers that want to do "everything right" have a hard time getting their arms around sometimes, but trust me ... it's all good. ;)

-adam

Can I just remind folks of my favorite post? :D :rockon:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

When you see your ball python doing something and you think to yourself "self, I wonder who would know why he/she is doing that" ... I'm that guy. ;)

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Raise the humidity. I recently treated a RI in one of my snakes and was told by the vet "raise the humidity", bump the temps, and of course, give it the injections :)

My vet has tells me that eating is very helpful for the snakes recovery so I would try to get him to eat especially if he is under nourished. They usually dont eat when they have an RI but it wouldn't hurt to try to feed a small meal. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

My vet has tells me that eating is very helpful for the snakes recovery so I would try to get him to eat especially if he is under nourished. They usually dont eat when they have an RI but it wouldn't hurt to try to feed a small meal. Good luck!

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Actually, as Becky stated above, the effects of anti-biotics on a ball pythons natural gut flora can make feeding while treating with anti-biotics risky. As long as the snake was in otherwise good condition prior to contracting the RI, waiting the 2 - 3 weeks for the entire course of anti-biotics to be completed before offering food is really the best coarse of action.

-adam

I agree with you Adam only that the vet said the snake hasn't eaten in a long time and recommended to try to feed asap. Sounds like a weak snake. Would you still refrain from feeding?

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Originally Posted by Kingspade

he said he is very underweight and looks like he hasent eaten in a long time. according to the girl he may also be in shed... hes in rough shape but the vet said with the injections he'll pull through it... my question is the vet told me to try to get him to feed right away and keep trying untill he does eat.

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I'm worried we got a stressed under nourished snake who could use some strength

i agree raul... but i would definitely make it a very small meal... cause if it hasn't been fed in a long time... it needs to start small IMO

Yes, he may be underweight, but if he regurges, then he's going to have to wait 2 more weeks to have anything to eat anyway. Regurgitation will also zap most of the strength he's got left, leaving him and his immune system weaker.

Keep him hot, keep him humid, leave him alone unless you have to clean the cage. No feeding until a week or two after injections are finished for him to build back the gut flora he lost during his illness.

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

I agree with you Adam only that the vet said the snake hasn't eaten in a long time and recommended to try to feed asap. Sounds like a weak snake. Would you still refrain from feeding?

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In my post I said "as long as the snake is in otherwise good condition".

Personally, based on my experience, I wouldn't feed the animal until the anti-biotics are done ... but then again, if the animal was that weak, I would administer the meds faster than normal ... each keeper has to evaluate what they are comfortable with doing or not doing based on their own personal degrees of experience working with these animals.

Hope this helps.

-adam

according to the vet hes about half the weight that he should be... he got his second shot today... heres the other thing tho... right now he is currently in shed... this snake is in very rough condition... i have a pic of it from when it used to be in good health before i got him... he's a beautiful pastle male from rouish reptiles (not sure of spelling) some little 14 year old girl was "taking care" of him and was selling him on fauanna as "having a possible R.I." but when i got him he was in extremly rough shape... i have one other snake that i have had since it was a baby and have never had problems with him! i couldnt believe the condition this poor guy i just got was in. i've never seen a snake that bad before... hopefully he can fight off this and get better. he is on .1 mill injections of baytril a day right now... the vet gave me 6 shots and gave him one right before i left.

"but then again, if the animal was that weak, I would administer the meds faster than normal ... each keeper has to evaluate what they are comfortable with doing or not doing based on their own personal degrees of experience working with these animals."
-Adam

i don't have any personal experiance with a snake this bad off before.. as i said i have taken care of my other one and never had any problems. you think i should talk to my vet about upping the dose or something?