African Soft Fur Rats

Just got some african soft furred rats. someone told me that they were fierce biters? has anyone had that experience with them?

My starting breeders have never bitten me. But because they where raised by someone else I have never given them the chance. I do notice however that at times they will not hesitate whip around and face me or my hand. They are pretty grabby with vegies...but hey its food LOL.

With my growing colony that I have had for a bit now I don't notice the offspring to be bitey at all. I have yet to be bitten by any of them, my wife as well and she is more apt to handle them in her hands whereas I generally only move them them when cleaning...or feeding to the snakes.

Mine are bitey.
Wolfy

Where are the Pix ED?!?!? lol :P

The first one I picked up today bit me good, but I need her as a breeder. soo she will live to tell the others about it. Oh yea, Im real happy to take pics for who ever asks :P and I'll be sure to show the blood. :rolleyes:

Haha. That's EXACTLY what I said about mine the first time I got nailed. I checked and went "Dang!! It's a female!! I can't kill you!"
Haha
Wolfy

I have entered the realm of pet rats, rats have always been snake food. a couple months ago my rats started producing dumbos that were blue with ruby red eyes. I set some aside to breed together, also some other unusual colors. now I just got in trade a group of african soft hair rats 4.20 to be exact. and am thinking about a small group of hairless, wheres it gonna end.


Heres some pics for ya Laooda. :) http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...g?t=1166650296

Rocket Rats, Anyone that has any of these knows what I mean. :) http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...g?t=1166654225

Caution, I will bite you..........HARD. :) http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...g?t=1166654400

African Rats. :) http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...g?t=1166654626

They sure do resemble mice quite a bit huh?!?!?


They are VERRRRY cute! :P Thanks for the pix Ed!

They are just babies, will be interesting to see how they develop. :)

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Originally Posted by Laooda

They sure do resemble mice quite a bit huh?!?!?


They are VERRRRY cute! :P Thanks for the pix Ed!

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No "pet" african rats here ;) my balls love em!

I just got a 2.1 group of african rats about 2 weeks ago and the guy I got them from said they were "ferocious". They are really soft though so I reach in an pet them all the time and none of them have bit me yet. I thought he was just messing with me about their temperments.

wow, very cool. are those the rats with the huge pouch, that get pretty big? they also use those for detecting mines in Africa right?

EDIT: nevermind. just googled it and relized i was thinking giant pouched rats.

just curious, have you tried feeding regular rats after they have been eating african rats? I dont want to feed any of these to my snakes, for that reason. :)

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

No "pet" african rats here ;) my balls love em!

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I have used African soft furred rats to get ball pythons back to eating after a "fast" (they don't eat for weeks just to freak us out I think!). It seems, at least with my adult balls, that they switch back to rats after the Africans pretty easily. Hatchlings seem to make the switch even easier - mine don't even notice the difference it seems. Just weened Africans are about the same size as a small adult mouse so I'm hoping to use them instead of mice in the future.


BTW, my second generation of Africans seem to be less nippy than the mamas and papas.


Alice

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

just curious, have you tried feeding regular rats after they have been eating african rats? I dont want to feed any of these to my snakes, for that reason. :)

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I have one female in particular who eats only when the time is right for her, that said she taken a few african rats and then taken a rats after that (separate feedings of course). My youngest/smallest snakes are a pair of yellow bellies who will eat anything that moves. They have no problem taking mice after having african rats either. Another pair of het albinos I've tried the african rats with has also had no problem taking mice after the fact. Now on the flip side I have a "big" female who hasn't eaten in a couple months and even the african rats have not interested her yet.

I just sold off my mouse colony except for a few, and am letting the african rats fill out the colony space. I don't have any plans to sell any of the snakes that are feeding on african rats so I'm not real worried if they don't switch back to common rats or mice.

I'm seeing more and more people get into these rats, I wouldn't be surprised if they turn into a common food item. My experience with them has been great so far.

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

They are just babies, will be interesting to see how they develop. :)

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This is what they look like when fully developed. This is a female that's starting to get a little old.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...1/DSCN0183.jpg

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

I just sold off my mouse colony except for a few, and am letting the african rats fill out the colony space.

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Just curious....why African Rats? are they "better" than rats/mice? larger/smaller?

Is 100 gram the largest? What is the largest for a "normal" rat?

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

Just curious....why African Rats? are they "better" than rats/mice? larger/smaller?

Is 100 gram the largest? What is the largest for a "normal" rat?

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Most say they are just better breeders and have less smell. Also they are what a ball may have eaten in the wild and are said to be rarely refused. I have no experience with them so I can't say much.
About the domestic rats though, the maximum size is about 700-900 grams which as we all know is too big for even the largest ball(so you can all send retired breeders my way) while mice only get up to 40+/- grams.

I'm not sure, but most people tell you not to breed regular rats till atleast 250 grams. I'll try to remember to weigh some of our bigger breeders tomorrow.

With all these posts about these little critters, and then that they are ferocious and biters - aren't you guys the least bit worried about them biting your snakes, or are you pre-killing first? Seeing as I'm a live feeder, I'd be concerned about them getting in a good chomp while being constricted just from your guys' description of their temperments.


What's the average sized litter for these buggers?

I switched over and it is working for me because I don't keep any "big" snakes. I clean tubs once a week and the af rats don't smell nearly at all like reg. rats/mice and I've bred/raised them all. The af rats reproduce like no tomorrow and with proper care show no ill affect. They are larger than mice but quite a bit smaller than common rats. These af rats are very solid bodied however so I would have no problem feeding 2 maybe 3 to an adult BP.

The smell factor is a big thing for me as well as being able to produce alot with a smaller colony. Maybe its just me but they seem to grow out very quickly for me also.

I have yet to get bitten, and I have fed my snakes live af rats with no bites to the snakes either. The whole aggressive/biting stereotype is starting to sound like the arboreal snake stereotype. Ya they "can" be aggressive but not all of them are.

These rats are designed for large litters hence the name Natal Multimammate. Females have 8-12 teats and can have as many as 16-18 (according to my research). Myself and some others are still collaborating on some aspects of keeping them. They person I got my starting trio from and I do alot of corresponding as to what works and doesn't and things that will better the rodents themselves. If you don't have happy healthy rodents they will not produce well obviously.

My older females are producing around 12 babies or so and that's one of the things I am working on...but I'm not necessarily disappointed with that number.

I posted quite a bit of info on this subject in another thread some of you may find useful and that I should update with some of the things that I and others have learned through experience keeping them.

Hm.. I am seriously considering getting some of these.. I too am fed up with the fact that rats get too big to be used as feeders for even my largest BPs; I mostly need midsized rats now, which I guess are roughly the same size as the soft-furreds?
I don't care about temperament; my rats are strictly livestock and I don't handle them.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Hm.. I am seriously considering getting some of these.. I too am fed up with the fact that rats get too big to be used as feeders for even my largest BPs; I mostly need midsized rats now, which I guess are roughly the same size as the soft-furreds?
I don't care about temperament; my rats are strictly livestock and I don't handle them.

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This is pretty much the way I view my rodents as well. I'll do everything I can to make their lives enjoyable and healthy but I don't usually handle them just for fun. However the af rats are pretty darn cute and I have been known to pause while moving them for cleaning when I find a particular neat looking color/pattern :)

Another cool thing to me is that I didn't have to alter any of my existing rodent bins. By the time their eyes are open and they start exploring they are already to big to fit through the hardware cloth mesh like hopper mice can.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Hm.. I am seriously considering getting some of these.. I too am fed up with the fact that rats get too big to be used as feeders for even my largest BPs; I mostly need midsized rats now, which I guess are roughly the same size as the soft-furreds?
I don't care about temperament; my rats are strictly livestock and I don't handle them.

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Shouldnt you care about temperments? A very skittish, biting rat can really do harm to your snake, a more calmer, gentler rat is much better food then one thats scared and very skittish and more willing to nip.

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Originally Posted by Chester & Teagan

Shouldnt you care about temperments? A very skittish, biting rat can really do harm to your snake, a more calmer, gentler rat is much better food then one thats scared and very skittish and more willing to nip.

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LOL! do you really think that the prey items in the wild are "calm and gentle"?? Temperment is not going to be that big of a factor in a feeding scenario anyway. You can put the most docile care free rodent in the world in with a snake or other predator and I guarantee you its attitude will change. The most important thing to me in feeding live is just to be there observing. Unless the snake is not interested in feeding, the rodent won't have have enough time to any damage. If the snake is not showing interest the rodent should obviously be removed.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Hm.. I am seriously considering getting some of these.. I too am fed up with the fact that rats get too big to be used as feeders for even my largest BPs; I mostly need midsized rats now, which I guess are roughly the same size as the soft-furreds?
I don't care about temperament; my rats are strictly livestock and I don't handle them.

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Lucky for me that a litter can easily be fed off in one week for me, and I still have to pick up a few extra at the pet store. I'm trying to find just the right balance.

I do enjoy my breeder rats, but I'm following this thread with interest - who knows what I might do in the future?

I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong with mine since they are not reproducing well at all. They eat rat block, and all sorts of other nibbles, they have lots of room, lots of hiding spots, and are on aspen bedding, and they don't reproduce hardly at all. I don't get it. Maybe I need to change to a pair or trio per ten gallon instead of the big 40 gallon breeder tank.
Oh.. a word of warning for those with these, the babies are VERY fast, and I've seen them out and about running with eyes still closed. They can JUMP like little kangaroos.
I'm going to give these guys another go, and see if set up differently they do better for me.
Since no one bought them. LOL>
Wolfy

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Oh.. a word of warning for those with these, the babies are VERY fast, and I've seen them out and about running with eyes still closed. They can JUMP like little kangaroos.
Wolfy

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The guy I got mine from described the bouncing babies as "popcorn" LOL!

ABSOLUTELY!!! I called them popcorn when describing them to a friend.
Now to find room for a multitude of 10G tanks.
Wolfy

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

Just curious....why African Rats? are they "better" than rats/mice? larger/smaller?

Is 100 gram the largest? What is the largest for a "normal" rat?

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100g is as large as mine have gotten. I imagine they could get slightly larger but not much. I would bet about 120g would be the max for them. The one in my pic is close to a year old so it takes them a wile to get to that size. I have also found that my females grow a bit bigger than my males which is the opposite of domestic rats. The females seem to grow slower but attain a larger size at adulthood.

As for your second question, I raise them to feed my picky feeders and a couple of WC females I have. I have 3 het pied females that would only take 1 small domestic rat a month but they take these once every 5 days even while in shed. They are breeding now and would not have been even close without these rats. I paid $100 for a just weaned trio when they 1st became available in my area. That is a crazy price but it will be well worth it to me if I produce a couple Pieds this season.

It's all about the pieds dude. Funny thing, I was just thinking about how my pied is a picky eater. She doesn't particularly care for even the african rats.
Updated: I moved the african rats around some. I have 1.1 in a 10G. I have 1.2 in a 10G. I have 9 subadult females(might be one male in there, but he's a baby, just weaned) in the 40G breeder... and 1.3 in a 29G.
Everyone has water bottles, foods, treats, hides, boxes, etc. We'll see how they all do.
Wolfy

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Originally Posted by pfan151

I raise them to feed my picky feeders and a couple of WC females I have.

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So you raise rats/mice for your other snakes and asf for the picky snakes?

Just curious....my pieds are finally on a weekly mouse schedule. But I love the idea of less stinky, smaller prey item.

I want in on these!!! Where can i find them?

I mentioned this before but I have pretty much all my snakes feeding on these af rats now, for me its not just for the problem feeders.

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

So you raise rats/mice for your other snakes and asf for the picky snakes?

Just curious....my pieds are finally on a weekly mouse schedule. But I love the idea of less stinky, smaller prey item.

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I raise normal rats for most of my snakes and only the tough feeders that I plan on keeping get the ASF rats. I only have 8 tubs with ASF rats so I would not have near enough full adult ASF rats to feed my whole colony. I also plan on selling some offspring this year and I think I would have a tough time selling snakes that only eat the soft furreds. So far I have not been able to switch any snakes(WC or CB) to domestic rats after feeding the ASFs but to be honest I have not tried very hard so I am sure it is possible.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

So far I have not been able to switch any snakes(WC or CB) to domestic rats after feeding the ASFs but to be honest I have not tried very hard so I am sure it is possible.

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Thank you for the info! I guess I will stick with mice and watch this thread and future ASF developments.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

I raise normal rats for most of my snakes and only the tough feeders that I plan on keeping get the ASF rats. I only have 8 tubs with ASF rats so I would not have near enough full adult ASF rats to feed my whole colony. I also plan on selling some offspring this year and I think I would have a tough time selling snakes that only eat the soft furreds. So far I have not been able to switch any snakes(WC or CB) to domestic rats after feeding the ASFs but to be honest I have not tried very hard so I am sure it is possible.

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I was wondering about that - if someone were to want to sell their snakes that were ASF eaters, that might be a hard sell if the buyer can't get them, or doesn't have an interest in breeding their own food.

I mentioned above I have fed my snakes af rats and then domestic and back with no issues to speak of. I have also mentioned that snakes I am moving to af rats as the primary food source are not ones that I will be selling at this point. I still think af rats are catching on quickly...I've just chosen to jump ahead with my personal animals and completely switch them all over.

Hello,

Does anyone breed them or have some for sale in the western side of the country? or can ship some to Arizona?

Happy New Year.

Shipping mammals is a extensive and expensive thing. YOu not only have to pay for the shipping($125 and up minimum) you also have to have a special shipping box, and you need a health certificate for EACH animal. Most vets that is a MINIMUM of $30.
Just letting you know, as I just went through all this information a week or so ago.
Wolfy

Thank You for the info.
I s anyone within a 1000 miles from Phoenix breed them (and have some for sale)?

Happy Ney Year,

Hello, I would also like to purchase a few of these rats. Does anyone know of a breeder in the Washington State area?

Thanks!
Ron

i want some too...... they are delicous looking

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Originally Posted by gr8snake

Thank You for the info.
Is anyone within a 1000 miles from Phoenix breed them (and have some for sale)?

Happy New Year,

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Wow do you really want them that bad that you would drive 1000 miles and back for some?

ONe of my females just gave birth to a litter... of five. Why do my african rats do so lousy?
Wolfy

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

ONe of my females just gave birth to a litter... of five. Why do my african rats do so lousy?
Wolfy

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What are you feeding them?

Lab block, with cooked pasta, occasional cereal, peas and carrots. Assorted veggies depending on what I run across for them. Added in is a bit of dog food, and leftover bits as treats. Some apple.
They are on aspen bedding, fresh water all the time. Lots of hiding boxes and things to chew on I've done everything I can think of to give them ideal conditions.
Wolfy