live or not?

Just wondering how many people feed their snakes live food or re killed, frozen, in tank, or in a different tank.

I have been feeding my baby (almost 1 year) live prey in his tank, i would hold him for like a half hour than i would put him back, than drop in a mouse.

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Originally Posted by bonez

Just wondering how many people feed their snakes live food or re killed, frozen, in tank, or in a different tank.

I have been feeding my baby (almost 1 year) live prey in his tank, i would hold him for like a half hour than i would put him back, than drop in a mouse.

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I ahve had my BP for about 3 weeks and feed it live in a a different container because that is what he started on and I have not bothered to try and switch to FT.

I feed my snake live prey in another "tank". Call it a large cardboard box.
She won't eat during night for some reason. I thought they were nocturnal which confuses me even more. Each night she'll come out and try to get out for half the night. When I feed her in the day, I just take her out of the hide and put her in with the mouse. She'll eat right away.

I hear snakes can get parasites from live mice. Anything to look for at the petstore?

And what does FT mean? I know it refers to frozen food.
I think its unnatural for the snake to eat prekilled food. Whats the plus of prekilling animals for your snake?

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Originally Posted by bonez

have been feeding my baby (almost 1 year) live prey in his tank, i would hold him for like a half hour than i would put him back, than drop in a mouse.

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Just wondering, but why?

I feed all of mine live in their enclosures. I don't handle any of them on feeding day, I let them have their peace and then just hunt from their hides.

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Originally posted byRascal
Whats the plus of prekilling animals for your snake?

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Lots of pluses, :D first of all, a mouse or large rat can injure your snake,it might not happen, but the possibility is there. Live prey can have parasites,Also, , it is SOOOOO convenient to have the frozen rats, as I use for mine , in the freezer. I have a years worth, vacuum sealed. I have 9 snakes, including 4 BP , and they do great on the F/T rats. I would NEVER go to live feeding. I feed all in their cages. I put the F/ T rat into a big cup, or bag, and the snake goes right in, eats , and that's that. I regularly hold my snakes(not before or after feeding of course), and all are as gentle as can be.

Live, in their enclosures. Thawing out frozen is a pain in the butt, IMO. Plus I breed a portion of what I feed off, and I don't want to have to go through killing and freezing them all the time. Some of my snakes are too sensitive to be taken out of their tanks to have a mouse thrown at them in an environment they're unfamiliar with.

If you raise and breed the rodents why would you freeze after you kill. Keep them alive until you need them and then kill them and feed your animals freshly killed. I alway feed prekilled, I have known to many people who have had a rodent cause injuries to their snakes.

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

Lots of pluses, :D first of all, a mouse or large rat can injure your snake,it might not happen, but the possibility is there.

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Very true! this is why you must not leave the feeder in for extended periods of time and watch (if you have a smaller collection).

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Live prey can have parasites,Also

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So can P/K then right? that is why it is so important to buy feeders from a good source.

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I have a years worth, vacuum sealed. I have 9 snakes, including 4 BP , and they do great on the F/T rats. I would NEVER go to live feeding. .

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F/t can also pose problems if the rat isn't thawed enough it can really injure your snake. Some snakes will not eat F/T or even P/K for that fact.

I do not suggest feeding live to a new snake owner because of the complecations that can arise. I feed two of mine P/K and the rest live. It all depends on your animal.

After a while thawing out rats for a larger number of snakes is tedious. However, my balls and my carpet pythons will not touch live or prekilled.

However, I feed all of my snakes in their enclosures. I have at least one ball python that is so shy, she would not feed outside of her enclosure. In fact, if I were to handle her that day of feeding, she probably would not eat for me.

there are so many threads on this exact topic. feel free to use the search function to find some!

responsibly feeding live is perfectly safe and is the way many of the members here feed their snakes.

and just to add: frozen foods loose their nutritive value and having a years worth of prey items in the freezer will dramatically reduce their nutritive value!

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Originally Posted by bonez

Just wondering how many people feed their snakes live food or re killed, frozen, in tank, or in a different tank.

I have been feeding my baby (almost 1 year) live prey in his tank, i would hold him for like a half hour than i would put him back, than drop in a mouse.

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if I get a new BP and he is feeding live I will feed him live for his next 3 meals while he is adapting to is new environment and then I switch to frozen.



I feed all mine in their enclosure, which allow them to "hunt" from the security of their hides.

Whatever work for them work for me :carrot:

here's a link to a huge thread on this topic:

live vs ...

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

Lots of pluses, :D first of all, a mouse or large rat can injure your snake,it might not happen, but the possibility is there.

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A ball python doesn't need a large rat, a small/small (40-50 gram) is the largest they ever need. A incorrectly thawed rat can also cause problems for your snake as well.

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

Live prey can have parasites

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Species specific, not transferrable to your snake.

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

Also, , it is SOOOOO convenient to have the frozen rats, as I use for mine , in the freezer. I have a years worth, vacuum sealed. I have 9 snakes, including 4 BP , and they do great on the F/T rats. I would NEVER go to live feeding.

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Glad that f/t works well for you - the keeper SHOULD feed what's best for them, just as live works better for others, neither way is better than the other.

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

I feed all in their cages. I put the F/ T rat into a big cup, or bag, and the snake goes right in, eats , and that's that. I regularly hold my snakes(not before or after feeding of course), and all are as gentle as can be.

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So are mine. Not sure how what you feed has any direct relation to their temperment though?

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

and just to add: frozen foods loose their nutritive value and having a years worth of prey items in the freezer will dramatically reduce their nutritive value!

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They might also want to check the frozen shelf life of the feeders unless I am mistaken feeders with hair frozen only have a 6 month shelf life. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Please ignore the above I was mistaken See below

From http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_faqs.asp

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Q: How long will the frozen feeder animals last in the freezer?
A: Depending on how they are stored, most frozen feeder animals can last up to a year. It is a good idea to minimize any exposure to air by ensuring they are in air tight freezer bags. While we recommend not storing hairless feeder animals for more than 3 or 4 months, if properly sealed containers are used and air exposure is kept to a minimum, they can be kept for much longer.

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Originally Posted by herpmajor

If you raise and breed the rodents why would you freeze after you kill. Keep them alive until you need them and then kill them and feed your animals freshly killed.

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I would kill them to freeze them so I could have the right size prey to feed... if I waited until the day I needed them to feed, they would all be different sizes, and then killing them right before I feed would be pointless. I'd rather not slam my rodents' heads into walls or edges of tables to try to kill them. I've been that route and in my experience they don't always die right away, nor do all of my snakes appreciate me swinging their dinner in front of their faces.

I feed live in the same enclosure. no need to switch enclosures. f/t drives me insane. i no longer have the heart to swing rats around in a pillow case.

I feed live in the cage...

I used to feed in a cardboard box but I stopped....

my snake doesnt care where he eats :rolleye2:

I feed live in their tub. Never had a problem. If they show no interest the rat comes out in about 30 min. Usually the rat doesn't last 10 seconds in there though.....

FIRST of all, I would like to clarify, I am doing what is right for me. Everyone can judge for themselves what is right for them, without knocking someone elses methods. I have been using F/T for over 3 years, and I use VACUUM packed, which has a shelf life of a year. It usually does not last that long, I go through them fast. Each opened package lasts me only a month. NONE of the snakes I have owned for over 3 years seem to be suffering from any nutritional deficiencies from eating F/T. Unless an expert on snake nutrition or my herp vet tells me otherwise, I am sure any loss IF any,is neglegable NOT dramatic.
I am not going to feed partially defrosted Feeders to my snakes . I think I am capable of defrosting a 28g object completely. I certainly make sure!

sheesh...simmer

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

FIRST of all, I would like to clarify, I am doing what is right for me. Everyone can judge for themselves what is right for them, without knocking someone elses methods. I have been using F/T for over 3 years, and I use VACUUM packed, which has a shelf life of a year. It usually does not last that long, I go through them fast. Each opened package lasts me only a month. NONE of the snakes I have owned for over 3 years seem to be suffering from any nutritional deficiencies from eating F/T. Unless an expert on snake nutrition or my herp vet tells me otherwise, I am sure any loss IF any,is neglegable NOT dramatic.
I am not going to feed partially defrosted Feeders to my snakes . I think I am capable of defrosting a 28g object completely. I certainly make sure!

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I think a few were a bit defensive because of this part of your original post...

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I would NEVER go to live feeding.

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It seems like you are knocking those who would choose to feed live. I do not know if that was your intention or not.

I feed both live and f/t, because it is what works for my snakes. I do believe that the animals do start to break down at a cellular level after a certain period of time. I know that vaccum sealing does prolong the shelf life of frozen prey items.

Let's just keep it civil please. :D

Sheesh is right, It certainly was not my intention to knock those who feed live, tons of my friends who have snakes do. I gave my opinion of what is good for me. I am not that kind of person. I repeat, I did not intend to offend anyone. This is why I guess many people I know can't do these forums, it gets way out of hand. I started off just wanting to share my love of pythons, and answer a question, and it was sooooo misunderstood. Then I felt that my way of feeding F/T was being knocked, seeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Anyway, good luck everyone with your snakes! They are truly amazing animals!


Owner of
1.1 spiders
1 ringer
1 pastel
1 nelson milk
1 children's
1 honduran milk
1 Cal king
1 S. Florida King

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

Sheesh is right, It certainly was not my intention to knock those who feed live, tons of my friends who have snakes do. I gave my opinion of what is good for me. I am not that kind of person. I repeat, I did not intend to offend anyone. This is why I guess many people I know can't do these forums, it gets way out of hand. I started off just wanting to share my love of pythons, and answer a question, and it was sooooo misunderstood. Then I felt that my way of feeding F/T was being knocked, seeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Anyway, good luck everyone with your snakes! They are truly amazing animals!

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This just happens to be a very hot topic subject, so a calm, logical statement rules! I don't think it got out of hand, but it was headed in that direction, which is why I attempted to nip it in the bud.

I couldn't agree more with you. These are amazing animals. :love:

snakeLVR, Ive had just as many injuries, if not more, as a direct result of feeding F/T ;) Those teeth and claws are still there, just because the rat cant physically move them doesnt mean they are any less dangerous ;)

It's all about what the snakes will go for. Half will feed on F/T and half will not. I always monitor my animals when they feed either way. Two of my BP's only eat Live or "stunned" rats.

my bp used 2 eat live but is now on F/T i had no problems switching her to F/T just dangled the dead mouse infront of her and she constricts as if the mouse was alive.

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Originally posted by Uncle Festae
snakeLVR, Ive had just as many injuries, if not more, as a direct result of feeding F/T Those teeth and claws are still there, just because the rat cant physically move them doesnt mean they are any less dangerous

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Apparently, you didn't get the picture, or the point from tigerlily :colbert: ,


But what you say, sounds really odd, :rolleye2: injuries from the teeth and claws of a dead rat???????????? :confused:

Actually, I got the picture just fine... you have been lulled into a false sense of security by believing that there is no chance of injury when feeding F/T, which is exactly what you implied in your first post ;)

And for the point...which one?
This one?

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

a calm, logical statement rules!

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or this one?

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Let's just keep it civil please.

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'cause my post was all of the above ;)

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

But what you say, sounds really odd,

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No it doesnt...feed enough Ball Pythons F/T over a period of time and you'll see ;)

Quoted by Uncle Festae:
No it doesnt...feed enough Ball Pythons F/T over a period of time and you'll see


PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE!
Do Explain than the specific injuries from feeding a F/T rat or mouse, after all, the proof is in the pudding! I am really curious about these injuries, after all, I would have hoped your point was to be helpful, not just to bash my preference. :D

i used to feed live mice to my snakes but within a couple of weeks my mom and sisters couldnt handle the idea of feeding live prey to my snakes.so...i moved to f/t and they dont seem to mind that.

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Snakeman originally quoted: i used to feed live mice to my snakes but within a couple of weeks my mom and sisters couldnt handle the idea of feeding live prey to my snakes.so...i moved to f/t and they dont seem to mind that.

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Same here!
My 3 year old son, and my 7 year old daughter feel the exact same way! We used to have rats for pets, and my little girl would flip if she saw that. I don't even show her the F/T ones. it upsets her. She loves the snakes though, and does know what they have to eat to survive.

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

Quoted by Uncle Festae:
No it doesnt...feed enough Ball Pythons F/T over a period of time and you'll see


PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE!
Do Explain than the specific injuries from feeding a F/T rat or mouse, after all, the proof is in the pudding! I am really curious about these injuries, after all, I would have hoped your point was to be helpful, not just to bash my preference. :D

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I've had one ball python with a small lip cut from what had to be a rat claw. She's only ever been feed f/t. I ended up running her into the vet when it didn't appear to be healing on its own. (he removed a sani chip that had gotten stuck in the cut afterward). I had to dab it with silverdyne cream every day for a couple of weeks. It's healed up fine, but you can see the scar. I can try to get pictures of it later if you want, she just ate.

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I can try to get pictures of it later if you want, she just ate.

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That's ok, you don't need to go through the trouble, I do appreciate your explanation. :) I guess even when humans eat there is a risk from certain food items, that are of course, not living. so snakes are no different. I am still sticking with F/T.

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE!
Do Explain than the specific injuries from feeding a F/T rat or mouse, after all, the proof is in the pudding! I am really curious about these injuries, after all, I would have hoped your point was to be helpful, not just to bash my preference. :D

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Over the years, I've seen at least a dozen abscesses of the mouth, tongue sheath, esophagus, and stomach caused by the claws or teeth of F/T rodents (live rodents as well) ... no system of feeding is 100% free of potential danger ... on a similar note, neither is any system of housing (escapes that result in injury, illness, or death) ... or heating (failure of heating elements that cause over/under heating resulting in injury, illness, or death) ... The trick is to do the best you can for these animals and hope that it all works out. :D

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Over the years, I've seen at least a dozen abscesses of the mouth, tongue sheath, esophagus, and stomach caused by the claws or teeth of F/T rodents (live rodents as well) ... no system of feeding is 100% free of potential danger ... on a similar note, neither is any system of housing (escapes that result in injury, illness, or death) ... or heating (failure of heating elements that cause over/under heating resulting in injury, illness, or death) ... The trick is to do the best you can for these animals and hope that it all works out. :D

-adam

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Now that makes sense! A nice professional and objective way at looking at this issue!

Originally Posted by bonez

have been feeding my baby (almost 1 year) live prey in his tank, i would hold him for like a half hour than i would put him back, than drop in a mouse.





Just wondering, but why?



Just to show some care you know get him to know me better know him better, and to try and have him understand that I am feeding him, and mostly to make sure he doesn’t think food is coming when I put my hand in the tank you know? Limit confusion between a mouse and my hand.

started feeding f/t, i couldn't get consistent feedings, so i switched to live, and no refusals ever since

As others have mentioned, I also feed what my snakes eat, as well as what I what I have. I have a large boa that is intimidated by live prey (no matter how small) and I have had some that are intimidated by F/T prey. Most of my snakes will take live, P/K, and F/T.

i switch from live to f/t depending on what i have on hand at the time. when i get my new balls from adam... they'll be on f/t mostly as i'll need to have the right size for them available. but when there's a litter of ratties the right size... they'll be getting live.

;)

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Over the years, I've seen at least a dozen abscesses of the mouth, tongue sheath, esophagus, and stomach caused by the claws or teeth of F/T rodents (live rodents as well) ... no system of feeding is 100% free of potential danger ... on a similar note, neither is any system of housing (escapes that result in injury, illness, or death) ... or heating (failure of heating elements that cause over/under heating resulting in injury, illness, or death) ... The trick is to do the best you can for these animals and hope that it all works out. :D

-adam

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Thanks for taking care of the dirty work bud ;) I was away taking care of my family again :)

With secondary mouth infections being the most common Ive seen, I also want to add that I have had a superficial puncture wound that was caused by a F/T rats exposed teeth being pushed in to the snakes flesh by its tightening coils, nothing major, but a wound none the less. I've also had Balls launch straight out of the tubs on to the floor because I accidently moved the F/T at the last second, thankfully no injuries there, but there could have been.....

snakeLVR......Trust me when I say I have too much to do to bash on anyone, when I take the time out of my day to post here, I do my best to make sure its helpful and/or informative....I dont have 10 minutes to waste just to call someone a tool ;) And beyond that.....I also feed a good deal of F/T myself, If I dont have the right sized prey on hand for a certain animal, to the freezer I go...and some animals I just feed F/T every week simply because theres no sense in my wasting a live rat on a snake that will never turn down F/T, therefore claering freezer space :D I wasnt trying to tell you that F/T was bad or dont do it....just dont lull yourself into thinking that its completely harm free

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

Quoted by Uncle Festae:
No it doesnt...feed enough Ball Pythons F/T over a period of time and you'll see


PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE!
Do Explain than the specific injuries from feeding a F/T rat or mouse, after all, the proof is in the pudding! I am really curious about these injuries, after all, I would have hoped your point was to be helpful, not just to bash my preference. :D

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It was extremely obvious Uncle Festae was making a legitimate point, not intending to "bash your preference..." Get over yourself...

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Originally Posted by snakeLVR

Sheesh is right, It certainly was not my intention to knock those who feed live, tons of my friends who have snakes do. I gave my opinion of what is good for me. I am not that kind of person. I repeat, I did not intend to offend anyone. This is why I guess many people I know can't do these forums, it gets way out of hand. I started off just wanting to share my love of pythons, and answer a question, and it was sooooo misunderstood. Then I felt that my way of feeding F/T was being knocked, seeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

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perhaps part of the reason these people you know who have a problem on forums is because they don't understand the etiquette on the net. :confuzd:

CAPITALS is shouting and when you are making a point and using caps... then you are being forceful with your opinion.

adding a nice :) or a :giggle: assists people to see you are joking or being light-hearted.

of course there's the hard-core :rofl: and :8: which shows you are really joking around! and using caps when you are REALLY joking around... accents that the joke is really/truly/honestly a joke ;)

hope that helps.

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Originally quoted by Rapture ..." Get over yourself.

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Rapture, whoever you are, you certainly have no right to judge me, that was very rude and disrespectful for you to say.I'm a wife
teacher, mother, there was no call for that comment. In my profession, as an educator of children, I am anything but selfish .
Moderator, tigerlily, I was trying to back off on the original misunderstanding, and you were helpful, unfortunately to no avail, again, I wish all the kind people on this forum the best of luck!

everyone... please play nice! ;)

just a reminder... when we speak to each other with respect, then we get responses with respect. so be the bigger person... and be respectful. (that is directed at everyone who needs to hear it) :P

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Originally Posted by bonez

Originally Posted by bonez

have been feeding my baby (almost 1 year) live prey in his tank, i would hold him for like a half hour than i would put him back, than drop in a mouse.





Just wondering, but why?



Just to show some care you know get him to know me better know him better, and to try and have him understand that I am feeding him, and mostly to make sure he doesn’t think food is coming when I put my hand in the tank you know? Limit confusion between a mouse and my hand.

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Just a suggestion. You might want to bond with your snake and enjoy a bit of handling on a day other than feeding day. If your snake is geered up and ready to go that's probably not the best time to handle it. Most snakes on feeding day are antsy (at least most of ours are) and you don't want to trigger a strike. As long as you are in and out of it's enclosure cleaning, etc. plus a bit of reasonable handling most snakes will know the difference between your hand and a rodent. Not saying you'll never get bit though...owning snakes means you'll end up getting nipped some day or other. :)

As far as the live vs f/t (or p/k) issue. This is revisited here and on every other snake forum online a lot. It's something I think we handle here very gracefully and with mutual respect for the most part.

In the end, do what works for you as the keeper, do your research on proper feeding methods, find the right prey (rat or mouse) that your snake will eat with a consistent, aggressive feeding response and that you can obtain readily and of good quality but most importantly...do what works for that particular and very unique snake. That's all any of us can ever do.

I think the issue here is that sometimes the members of BP.net feel the need to convince an avid F/T feeder that it's ok to feed live. So if a new person to our forums expresses that particular opinion...they can very easily feel "ganged up" on and get defensive. These stupid "Live vs F/T" threads make for bad first impressions from BOTH sides. Makes us look bad to the new member...and makes an otherwise friendly and helpful new member look bad to us.

Please, people...don't let this kind of discussion push away new members. And to the new members, please don't base your entire opinion of BP.net on a single hot-topic thread.

snakeLVR....I only have a minute this morning, but I did want to say you are welcomed here at BP.net. :handshake: I'm in the middle of an extremely busy time in my personal life, so I only have scant moments online these days...but from what I've seen, I think you can be a valuable member of our community. :sunny:

Wow Judy where did you get the time to write that with the move and all?? Thanks for the drink of cool water and the breath of fresh air to this thread.:salute:

Judy, Thank you so much! :P You are a breath of fresh air!!!!!! I did just join, and really have so far met some wonderful people with wonderful snakes and ideas! You said that perfectly! :sunny:

I just noticed the negative rep points I received for my post here so I am back to review the thread again... Apparently I took what you said the wrong way, snakeLVR... Maybe it was the internet or I just read it wrong, but the way I saw it was that you were looking for someone to get upset and bash your preference.

Obviously I was mistaken, my apologies to you and anyone else offended. :handshake

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Originally quoted by Rapture,Maybe it was the internet or I just read it wrong, but the way I saw it was that you were looking for someone to get upset and bash your preference

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No, I don't want people mad at me, believe me , I am actually a very timid person, I guess I over-reacted too. :P . My apologies too, I will be very careful in the future not to unintentionally offend any other members and if I have a particular view or opinion about something, be very lighthearted about it, and not have it come out as forcefully as it did. :sunny: